hi everyone. i'm currently taking a personality psychology course right now and
alot of eva, eva, eva, has been popping into my head lately. the class is just
finished discussing freud and jung last week and found alot of interesting
connections. for example:
1) (one all the hardcore fans know) asuka, shinji, & rei represent id, ego,
superego
- explains the scene where ikari jacked off to a comatose asuka
- explains the scene where rei reminded shinji of a mother (since superego akin
to a
parent)
- explains why Ikari is so ****ed up most of the time since he is conflicted by
the
opposites of a sexual/aggressive id, and the authoritative superego
- explains all those defense mechanisms that Ikari uses (ie withdrawl)
2) LCL represents Jung's collective unconscious
- all life is unified into one
...i had a bunch of other interesting stuff on mind too, but i'll get back to
you on them
anyways, does anybody have any opinions on what Gendo, Misato, or Ritsuko
represent?
merged: 09-27-2006 ~ 05:34am
oh yeah, i forget about the elevator scene with Asuka and Rei...they're the
tension between the id and superego
hmmm...oh, yeah and I don't think Shinji dies, i think he just decides NOT to
join the collective unconscious and would rather stay with his primitive desires
(thus, Asuka)...plus i really don't agree on the whole Adam and Eve
thing.
merged: 09-27-2006 ~ 05:38am
one more thing, Rei(the superego that restricts the ego) is the one closest to
society and its rules...therefore, Rei also joins the collective
unconsciousness.
I think shinji's ultimate decision was to become either an angel or a beast. the
former pertaining to collecive unconscious and the latter pertaining to
animalistic desires(as displayed by EVA 01)...he ultimately chose the
latter.
merged: 09-27-2006 ~ 05:39am
rei can also be seen as the closest to humanity and society because she is all
about DUTY; Asuka, on the other hand, is all about..well..herself.
thanatos is the "death instinct" whereas Eros is the "sex
instinct"...hmm...that doesn't really make sense to me. i thought that
Asuka might be both Eros & Thanatos because (since she is the id) she should
have all of the qualities of Freud's Pleasure Principle: Aggression(see her in
Death&Rebirth) and Sex(tension between her and Shinji).
merged: 09-27-2006 ~ 09:19pm
Maybe Shinji had an Oedipus complex. Yeah, Rei was like his mother. he liked
rei. plus he hated his father, Gendo. therefore, Rei=superego=parent=mother in
Oedipal complex
Rei has no persona; she can be the Thanatos because she only lives for one
thing: to please Gendou. Plus, she has no particular regard for her own life
because she can be "replaced" with the dummy plug clones. Asuka is
(obviously) the Eros because she is the sexualized one to Shinji.
And it's pretty obvious that Shinji is at the very least a bit Oedipal: kill the
father, become one with the mother (by way of Eva 1 which contains her soul).
LCL can be collective unconciousness, but also a "drive to
immaturity", sort of an opposite to the "Wille zur Macht" of
Nietzche: going back to the LCL attempts to counter the basic fact that human
need AT fields to survive as such, with their suffering.
On a less serious note, where does the Shinji x Kaworu pairing fit in with the
serious psychological talk? =P
ok yeah i do she shinji as oedipal because he hates his father but technically
does become "one" with his mother when the synch ratio on evangellion
unit 1 was 400%. asuka as the eros is a true possibility but she could also be
thanatos because shinji did try to kill her in the movie. rei could also be both
because shinji is attracted to rei, thus more in the oedipal complex, but since
she can be "replaced" by the clones she does feel that her life is
only one to be lived to die. gendo could be representative of oedipus' father
and ritsuko is one of his fathers "flings" and that makes oedipus want
to kill his father. misato could also represent the eros because again she is
sexually attracted to shinji, see the movie, those are just my views. ohh and as
a final note shinjixkaoru could represent the ability to rid ones self of the
other egos.
eh..i'm still pretty convinced that Asuka is BOTH eros and thanatos...mainly
because if she is truly the "id," then she must have both of those
basic, instinctual desires and drives (sex & aggression). Yeah, rei may SEEM
aggressive through her EVA skills, but she is, in fact, simply following orders
(thus, the society/order-compliant superego).
and for Kaworu and Shinji...i'm haven't really thought about them, but i think
that Kaworu could represent Shinji's "ideal self," or the type of
person Shinji wishes to be. However, Shinji's current state is his "true
self." and since his true self and ideal self are not one in the same,
there is conflict within him(shinji).
in the end, after he's killed his "ideal self," Ikari rejects the
unified LCL-type world and decides to live with his anxiety-ridden, true
self...hmm...i'm still trying to figure out how to connect this with Asuka's
infamous last lines...
furthermore, can someone tell me whether or not Shnji really WAS anxiety-ridden
in the end? or was he happy to be alone with his id?
perhaps he was truely glad to be alone with his id. i mean he got
"rid" of his super ego which represented the father figure that he
loved yet hated at the same time. this is of course going into the movie. at the
end of the series we see evaluations of all or most of the persona in the series
thus we uncover more into what is truely going on in shinjis and most of
societies mind when faced with these questions. one of the questions that i
loved was "who are you and who are they?" (or something along thise
lines) and the answer given is "i am me and she is she" (again
something along those lines) to me ot showed how little he actually understood
about his diffrent egos thus when they say "this is the form of me in
shinjis mind" meaning that each person was inside shinjis mind thus
creating what we have nailed as the id and trhe super ego along with thanatos
and eros, which may both lie in asuka but she personifies thanatos more than
eros, so again just my views on everything.
the whole "this is the form of me in shinji's mind" kinda reminds me
of how much in this world is base on the INDIVIDUAL'S perspective on things.
That is, questions like what is real, or if God exists are mainly things that
people have been questioning for thousands of years simply because there is no
proof or evidence. even, with physical proff to the "eternal"
questions, people will still be subjective and create realities only suited to
themselves.
merged: 09-29-2006 ~ 01:10am
i was thinking...how does the shizo, avoidant, etc...personality types go
again...and to which characters?
Whoah what nice topic u guys have here..
I'm totally new to this id-ego-superego thing (heck, my knowledge about
psychology is near non-existant), nevertheless i find this quite interestng, so
could you gimme a brief explanation bout that? (just post the link, need to
explain that here). Thanks in advance
OK, the only psychological review of eva i've read is This one, and i'm
quite agree with that...sorry if all of you have read that review
hi everyone. i'm currently taking a personality psychology course right now and alot of eva, eva, eva, has been popping into my head lately. the class is just finished discussing freud and jung last week and found alot of interesting connections. for example:
1) (one all the hardcore fans know) asuka, shinji, & rei represent id, ego, superego
- explains the scene where ikari jacked off to a comatose asuka
- explains the scene where rei reminded shinji of a mother (since superego akin to a
parent)
- explains why Ikari is so ****ed up most of the time since he is conflicted by the
opposites of a sexual/aggressive id, and the authoritative superego
- explains all those defense mechanisms that Ikari uses (ie withdrawl)
2) LCL represents Jung's collective unconscious
- all life is unified into one
...i had a bunch of other interesting stuff on mind too, but i'll get back to you on them
anyways, does anybody have any opinions on what Gendo, Misato, or Ritsuko represent?
merged: 09-27-2006 ~ 05:34am
oh yeah, i forget about the elevator scene with Asuka and Rei...they're the tension between the id and superego
hmmm...oh, yeah and I don't think Shinji dies, i think he just decides NOT to join the collective unconscious and would rather stay with his primitive desires (thus, Asuka)...plus i really don't agree on the whole Adam and Eve thing.
merged: 09-27-2006 ~ 05:38am
one more thing, Rei(the superego that restricts the ego) is the one closest to society and its rules...therefore, Rei also joins the collective unconsciousness.
I think shinji's ultimate decision was to become either an angel or a beast. the former pertaining to collecive unconscious and the latter pertaining to animalistic desires(as displayed by EVA 01)...he ultimately chose the latter.
merged: 09-27-2006 ~ 05:39am
rei can also be seen as the closest to humanity and society because she is all about DUTY; Asuka, on the other hand, is all about..well..herself.
Rei can represent the Thanatos and Asuka the Eros of Shinji's psyche. There's no one interpretation.
thanatos is the "death instinct" whereas Eros is the "sex instinct"...hmm...that doesn't really make sense to me. i thought that Asuka might be both Eros & Thanatos because (since she is the id) she should have all of the qualities of Freud's Pleasure Principle: Aggression(see her in Death&Rebirth) and Sex(tension between her and Shinji).
merged: 09-27-2006 ~ 09:19pm
Maybe Shinji had an Oedipus complex. Yeah, Rei was like his mother. he liked rei. plus he hated his father, Gendo. therefore, Rei=superego=parent=mother in Oedipal complex
Rei has no persona; she can be the Thanatos because she only lives for one thing: to please Gendou. Plus, she has no particular regard for her own life because she can be "replaced" with the dummy plug clones. Asuka is (obviously) the Eros because she is the sexualized one to Shinji.
And it's pretty obvious that Shinji is at the very least a bit Oedipal: kill the father, become one with the mother (by way of Eva 1 which contains her soul). LCL can be collective unconciousness, but also a "drive to immaturity", sort of an opposite to the "Wille zur Macht" of Nietzche: going back to the LCL attempts to counter the basic fact that human need AT fields to survive as such, with their suffering.
On a less serious note, where does the Shinji x Kaworu pairing fit in with the serious psychological talk? =P
ok yeah i do she shinji as oedipal because he hates his father but technically does become "one" with his mother when the synch ratio on evangellion unit 1 was 400%. asuka as the eros is a true possibility but she could also be thanatos because shinji did try to kill her in the movie. rei could also be both because shinji is attracted to rei, thus more in the oedipal complex, but since she can be "replaced" by the clones she does feel that her life is only one to be lived to die. gendo could be representative of oedipus' father and ritsuko is one of his fathers "flings" and that makes oedipus want to kill his father. misato could also represent the eros because again she is sexually attracted to shinji, see the movie, those are just my views. ohh and as a final note shinjixkaoru could represent the ability to rid ones self of the other egos.
eh..i'm still pretty convinced that Asuka is BOTH eros and thanatos...mainly because if she is truly the "id," then she must have both of those basic, instinctual desires and drives (sex & aggression). Yeah, rei may SEEM aggressive through her EVA skills, but she is, in fact, simply following orders (thus, the society/order-compliant superego).
and for Kaworu and Shinji...i'm haven't really thought about them, but i think that Kaworu could represent Shinji's "ideal self," or the type of person Shinji wishes to be. However, Shinji's current state is his "true self." and since his true self and ideal self are not one in the same, there is conflict within him(shinji).
in the end, after he's killed his "ideal self," Ikari rejects the unified LCL-type world and decides to live with his anxiety-ridden, true self...hmm...i'm still trying to figure out how to connect this with Asuka's infamous last lines...
furthermore, can someone tell me whether or not Shnji really WAS anxiety-ridden in the end? or was he happy to be alone with his id?
perhaps he was truely glad to be alone with his id. i mean he got "rid" of his super ego which represented the father figure that he loved yet hated at the same time. this is of course going into the movie. at the end of the series we see evaluations of all or most of the persona in the series thus we uncover more into what is truely going on in shinjis and most of societies mind when faced with these questions. one of the questions that i loved was "who are you and who are they?" (or something along thise lines) and the answer given is "i am me and she is she" (again something along those lines) to me ot showed how little he actually understood about his diffrent egos thus when they say "this is the form of me in shinjis mind" meaning that each person was inside shinjis mind thus creating what we have nailed as the id and trhe super ego along with thanatos and eros, which may both lie in asuka but she personifies thanatos more than eros, so again just my views on everything.
the whole "this is the form of me in shinji's mind" kinda reminds me of how much in this world is base on the INDIVIDUAL'S perspective on things. That is, questions like what is real, or if God exists are mainly things that people have been questioning for thousands of years simply because there is no proof or evidence. even, with physical proff to the "eternal" questions, people will still be subjective and create realities only suited to themselves.
merged: 09-29-2006 ~ 01:10am
i was thinking...how does the shizo, avoidant, etc...personality types go again...and to which characters?
Whoah what nice topic u guys have here..
I'm totally new to this id-ego-superego thing (heck, my knowledge about psychology is near non-existant), nevertheless i find this quite interestng, so could you gimme a brief explanation bout that? (just post the link, need to explain that here). Thanks in advance
OK, the only psychological review of eva i've read is This one, and i'm quite agree with that...sorry if all of you have read that review
http://allpsych.com/personalitysynopsis/drives.html
here's a good tutorial.