Do you think God is just?
Religion & Science
Do you think God is just?
Do you think God is just?
Do you think God is just?
- Yes, He is just
- 20 votes
- No, He is not
- 14 votes
- I don't know
- 3 votes
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Do you think that God is just? Do you think that all he has done is fair to all of us? Why? Do you think that God is good? If He is, why'd He created hell to punish sinful people for eternity? Do you think that all that He has done is good for everyone?
yep
Just? As you see it or as he sees it?
God didn't create hell for the sinful humans. And hell actually is not a place like
Earth. It's just the "divorce" with God. God created hell for the demons and the people who worship demons and like them belong close to them, so in hell. They chose demons over God and that's where they belong. That's the christian orthodox meaning of hell.
And the question that answers all of your answers: Do you think that all people want the good things that God gave them? I say no and every day life proves it.
And as Bon jovi said...Have a nice day
Greomer if Hell is not the place for sinful humans where do sinful humans go? If they go to Heaven then there is no such thing as sin. If they go to Hell then God is punishing the sinful with infinite punishment. A just god probably wouldn't punish people infinitely for eternity for only a lifetime of sin. I don't believe the sinful worship demons.
If there is a God I do not believe him or her to be just. I see God as indifferent to the sufferings of man.
I agree with PleaseRecycle that's what I mean. Why would He punish sinful men to an eternal punishment just for lifetime sins? I am a christian and bible does say that God is love. Is this what He call 'love' ?
I look at all the suffering and injustice in the world and I say... No, he is not just.
I think God is just. I think we don't understand His reasonings for things.
To me, Hell is seperation from God.
Without Him we all suffer. In the Bible, it says that God admits to turning his eyes away from us (I can't remember the verse). Justice, I think, will be served judgement day... whenever that is...
God's love is defined in the Bible:
John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
God loved us enough to send His son to die for us, so death would not be the end. God sacrificed His only Son so that we, who put our faith in Jesus, will not spend eternity separated from Him (which means to me... we won't spend eternity in Hell... being seperated from God).
God's love is unconditional. We all know that the world is evil... people suffer... people die.... the Bible also says, "for the wages of sin are death." People sin...we all sin...we all one day will die because of our sins... but for those who repent and believe in Christ, they will be saved...and be with Him forever.
The small amount of time we spend on earth suffering will be forgotten when this world is over. The Bible also says, "There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain." I think that's a wonderful thought... at least, to me it is. That when this world is over, everything will be perfect... it will be Heaven.
Well, I guess that depends on what someone's perception of God is. 'Just' is a human word, and the God that I think of probably wouldn't be concerned with such things. 'Fair' and 'Unfair' are just words that give our opinion... I can say that it's not fair that I'm not rich, but that's only me.
But for a quick, mostly painless answer, I don't think God is an unfair force. I think it's a far bigger picture than Fair or Unfair, Just or Unjust, but if such labels could be used I'd say he's fair - although in his way, not ours.
who is god? there are many religions.... the religion is some where the human find peace... god isn't just coz there are many kids without food, many countrys in war.... all time someone is murder.... but we find in god someone in whom trusting
Well from what I've seen.... the world is crap and God did nothing about it to help.....
Nope God is.... unjust
Regardless of whether or not we understand, if someone's is being beaten and raped in an alley do you just say, "Oh it must be God's eternal will that they be beaten and raped." How is that any sort of consolation? "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." You don't just stand around waiting while someone is being hurt. You go and do something. You can't stand around arguing whether or not it's God's will that you do something. According to your reasoning since we don't understand his will then we should do nothing for the person because they might be a sinner and deserves this punishment. Since it is God's will that the sinful be punished we should ignore this person. This sounds ridiculous to me.
This brings me to my next point. Consider babies. Just born. Then they die for some reason. Let's say killer bees. Where's the justice in that? They obviously didn't repent and believe in Christ. Do they go to hell for no other reason than dieing too early? Next consider a person who dedicated their whole life to good deeds and honesty. They do pretty much everything that Jesus asks of you in terms of good deeds. Now suppose they are wiccan. Do they go to hell for not believing in the right God? Now suppose an evil person kills millions of people then on his deathbed he sincerely repents and asks Jesus to take over his life. Does he go to Heaven because he asked Jesus to come into his life moments before he dies?
According to the Bible that you are quoting the answer is yes to all of those questions.
Where is the justice in that? Good people who don't believe in the right God still go to Hell? That's just unbelievable. You'd think that a just God would at least let them into Heaven out of courtesy.
No God is not just. It is not compassion but rather divine indifference.
Finally, I do not find in God someone who is trustworthy. If I knew someone who allowed famine, war, and murder run rampant despite the fact that they could easily stop it I would be appalled.
Don't even say, "It is God's will and we cannot understand His mysterious ways." That to me sounds utterly insane.
There are many opinions. Once again I should agreed PleaseRecycle's opinion, for you who think that God is just, please tell me, why all those things should be happening? If I were a criminal and I beg for His forgiveness when I'm about to die, will I go to heaven? and if I were a good person, say, i never do such a sin at all, but I don't know anything about Jesus, Where will I go when I die? hell? why? just because that I don't know Him? crsg, what I'm talking about is not just abut poorness it's about the whole things.
I can't just agree that He is just. If He is, then why He created ell for an eternal punishment? I would agreed if hell is only a temporary punishment, to punish whoever done sins and they're punishment is equal with what they have done.
merged: 04-12-2007 ~ 08:06pm
There are many opinions. Once again I should agreed PleaseRecycle's opinion, for you who think that God is just, please tell me, why all those things should be happening? If I were a criminal and I beg for His forgiveness when I'm about to die, will I go to heaven? and if I were a good person, say, i never do such a sin at all, but I don't know anything about Jesus, Where will I go when I die? hell? why? just because that I don't know Him? crsg, what I'm talking about is not just abut poorness it's about the whole things.
I can't just agree that He is just. If He is, then why He created ell for an eternal punishment? I would agreed if hell is only a temporary punishment, to punish whoever done sins and they're punishment is equal with what they have done.
Well God is the one who created them that way.....
If God was truely almighty and just, he wouldn't have let what happened in Genesis
I mean isn't God just selfish?
He created us just because he was bored or something and he just punishes us because we just did things that God created
If you do not understand God or His ways, dont worry, we arent supposed to, for it is written:"Higher are God's ways, His thoughts from our own" That is why He is God and we are not.
I only said that God admits to turning his eyes away from us...we are not always in His sight. I NEVER said that I rape or murder or anything like that is ok... EVER. I NEVER said to NOT DO ANYTHING IF WE SAW SOMETHING LIKE THAT... (GOD GAVE US FREE WILL...to do evil or good...we get the choice). If I saw something like that happening, I would go and help that person...and I HAVE before...
FYI (Its not our place to judge wether God is just or not...)
If you would read the Bible, you would know that:
1. (Jews and Christian faiths) There is an age of accountability, where you are of the age to decide wether you believe in God or not. Anyone else... younger than that age, are not held accountible. (A baby or a child that cannot understand) doesn't go to Hell.)
2. Evil in in the world. Satan is in the world. Bad things happen. Do you really expect everything to be perfect in an IMPERFECT WORLD? The world was perfect until "original sin" entered the world.
3. A murderer can be saved. Nomatter, who or how many he kills, if he truely repents of his sins.
4. In God's sight, thinking bad things are the same as doing them, "ALL SIN IS EQUAL IN THE EYES OF GOD."
5. Don't question God. "Do not put the Lord thy God to the test."
6. The path to Heaven is not in good works, only THROUGH FAITH IN JESUS. NOWHERE in the Bible does it say that if you do good things, you'll go to Heaven. We are saved by His grace though our faith in Him ALONE. Jesus is our lawyer, God is our judge.
7. God says that He is a jealous God. "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." God is God. There are no others gods... period.
I think you want retribution for things. "Vengence is mine," sayeth the Lord. The only *consolation*, as you put it, that people get, is the one day we will all be judged. Judgement day, that is when we are judged and our fate is sealed.
Personally, I believe that if you repent of your sins and believe that Jesus died and rose again for your sins, then you will be saved. I hate the how the world is and all the evils that are in it, its all our job to make the world a better place.
It OUR job to be like Jesus, to follow in His footsteps. Its our responsibility to help the needy, people who are hurt, or in distress. Its up to us to make this world a better place.
Ask people who are well educated the Bible. Don't be afraid to go to different Christian leaders (a studied Theologien, not just a preist or minister) and ask them these questions. Theologians are educated for at least 8 years to read the Bible in its different languages and are taught how to make their own judgements in interpretation of the Bible. Ask them about it, I'm sure they would be more than happy to help you and answer these questions.
I didn't want you to be so upset with what I said.... I just wanted to help you understand what some Christians believe and why they believe what they do. Noone knows why God is the way He is and its not our place to question. He is the one making judgement and who sets the moral standard. Otherwise we wouldn't have a conscience.
I just hope that one day you'll be a happier, less angry person and find the answers that you are looking for.
merged: 04-13-2007 ~ 09:16am
The Bible has all the answers, I don't. You just gotta look.
I apologize if I seem angry or upset. It just gets me very frustrated to see so much suffering in the world and being all but powerless to stop it.
It's true that we have free will but how do we know whether or not what we do is good and not evil? For instance say we stumble upon someone and help them. Then they go on and harm someone else. How do we know that God didn't mean for them to get hurt in whatever it is we helped them out of? Maybe God wanted them to be hurt to prevent them from doing harm. How can we possibly know?
God doesn't know what humans will do. We have "free will." If he did know but forced humans to live life (possibly full of suffering) only to have them go to Hell is just a bit cruel. Lots of people are starving in third world countries and have no idea about Jesus. Why didn't God just kill them at birth and send them to Heaven or Hell if he knew where they belonged? So if living is for God to know who goes to heaven or hell then he cannot know what path a baby will take. He cannot know whether or not a baby is good or bad.
This brings me to my next point if babies were all born pure at birth wouldn't it be better for all of them to just die so they can go straight to Heaven? Why should God risk their souls in Hell? Why doesn't he kill all of them so they can go to Heaven? Why does he kill SOME of them and lets them into Heaven but other babies have to live and risk eternal damnation despite being born pure.
If you assume that babies who die at birth go to Heaven then consider this. If someone killed their baby so that the baby could go to Heaven without risking Hell and sin would you condone that? I mean sure the baby doesn't get to live a full life but this is Heaven we're talking about here. Heaven is the best. So what if you are murdered at birth? I don't think you'd condone that but would you punish the person who killed the baby? I mean if they truly believed their child would go to Heaven. Are they responsible for the act despite what they believed?
Of course I don't expect the world to be perfect. That would be unreasonable and illogical. The world doesn't give a damn whether I live or die.
If you say "original sin" tainted the world why would God blame us? Why would God blame completely innocent people who had nothing to do with Adam and Eve? Why are we punished for what they did? Wouldn't a just God punish only them and not their descendants?
And yet someone who did good deeds all their life but didn't believe in God doesn't? I'm sorry but that just doesn't jive with my sense of justice. Sure he can repent all he wants but does that change the fact that people were deprived of their lives? What if they were going to repent next week but the murderer killed them? Why should they go to Hell because someone else killed them? It doesn't make sense to me.
If I told you that a man named Bob would give you a trillion dollars if you followed ten rules for 30 years would you do it? What if I told that I've never seen or spoke to Bob but read about him through a book that someone told me that Bob wrote himself? I know Bob wrote the book because the book says that Bob wrote it. How do I know the book is right? Because Bob is always right. How do I know he is always right? Because the book says so.
I can't help questioning the unbelievable. Blind faith without reason is ridiculous.
This bothers me. You are saying that faith in Jesus will grant us access to Heaven. Are you saying that you can do bad things but as long as you have faith in Jesus and his eternal forgiveness that we can go to heaven? Why would a just God punish those who are good and moral simply because they don't believe in him? Are you suggesting that I can go kill 12 people right now but then wholeheartedly repent later? By my faith in the complete forgiveness of Jesus I get to go to Heaven? This is madness. "Madness? This is SPARTA!"
Why would God be jealous? I mean he's God. He already knows he's the most powerful why would he care about some competition? So since he's jealous now does that mean he sends us to Hell because he's jealous we worshiped other gods? That sounds a bit capricious to me.
Quite untrue. I do not want vengeance. As they say, "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind an toothless." Bad things happen to me because it's my fault, someone else's fault, or simply blind chance. I do not usually hold grudges.
Yes it is up to us. However, I do not see the need for any belief in Jesus or God to do any of those things. One can do them simply because it makes someone else's life easier. Morality needs no basis in God. I can tell you for sure that a moral atheist is not an oxymoron.
I have. Problem is that they all have differing opinions and interpretations about the same thing or passage. The Bible should have been written more clearly and without ambiguity. Why are there so many interpretations? Why didn't God put it in simple terms and words that will last forever and with only one interpretation?
The Bible does not hold all the answers. For instance, "What are humans made of?" If you read the Bible it says dirt. If humans never wondered about cells, proteins, and DNA there wouldn't be any medicine.
For some the Bible is a source of moral information rather than practical material information about the universe. Again I restate that morality needs not have a basis in the Bible.
Here's where I end.
Quote:
6. The path to Heaven is not in good works, only THROUGH FAITH IN JESUS. NOWHERE in the Bible does it say that if you do good things, you'll go to Heaven. We are saved by His grace though our faith in Him ALONE. Jesus is our lawyer, God is our judge.
This bothers me. You are saying that faith in Jesus will grant us access to Heaven. Are you saying that you can do bad things but as long as you have faith in Jesus and his eternal forgiveness that we can go to heaven? Why would a just God punish those who are good and moral simply because they don't believe in him? Are you suggesting that I can go kill 12 people right now but then wholeheartedly repent later? By my faith in the complete forgiveness of Jesus I get to go to Heaven? This is madness. "Madness? This is SPARTA!"
To me, believing that Jesus (the son of God) died on the cross for our sins and rose again is what I need to go to Heaven. That's the way I was taught and have interpreted from the Bible myself for me to be saved. If you truely believe in Jesus, then you'd want to follow Him, right? Following him means that you would want to be like Him... doing good things because for the only fact... that they are good things, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Many different faiths, even Zoroastrianism has this "golden rule".
Why would you want to go and kill 12 people and then want to repent? (I NEVER suggested for you to kill people). People can't be truely sorry for things that they keep repeating. Many killers that I've seen on the news, don't stop with just one... they keep going. Being truely repentent about things that someone's done are between them and God. Only God and that person know the truth.
Quote:
Theologians are educated for at least 8 years to read the Bible in its different languages and are taught how to make their own judgements in interpretation of the Bible. Ask them about it, I'm sure they would be more than happy to help you and answer these questions.
I have. Problem is that they all have differing opinions and interpretations about the same thing or passage. The Bible should have been written more clearly and without ambiguity. Why are there so many interpretations? Why didn't God put it in simple terms and words that will last forever and with only one interpretation?
The Bible does not hold all the answers. For instance, "What are humans made of?" If you read the Bible it says dirt. If humans never wondered about cells, proteins, and DNA there wouldn't be any medicine.
To ME, the Bible DOES hold the answers. It says in the Bible that yes, humans were created from earth. The earth is made out of elements, scientists would agree with that. We are made out of electrons>molecules>proteins>cells>etc.. So, we are made out of what the Bible has said and scientists in all logic, would agree.
There is practical information in the Bible.
(Examples) In either Numbers or Deuteronomy, it tells about the constalation "the pleadies" and there being 7 stars in it (they used the stars back then for maps). In the 15th century, they finally associated the star cluster with the reference in the Bible because there were finally telescopes to actually be able to see the 7 stars. Noah and the flood was from the Bible. Just recently, like in the mid 1990s, scientists discovered the genetic bottleneck that, genetically speaking, only showed that perhaps 2 or 3 families survived this flood... Noah and his sons and their children/family. There is also satellite data that scientists are examining to see if it really is data confirming the final location of the arc. My major in college was Biology. Being a Christian and a Biologist, I had to find out for myself what my inquisitive mind wanted to know... I need to find parallels between the science I was learning and what I had learned growing up from reading the Bible.
In Revelation 3, "Blessed is he that readeth (and understand), and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand." I believe the Bible was WRITTEN AS A GUIDE and it is open to interpretation. Opinions, everyone has them... not all are alike.
like you and me 
And
that's ok.
I personally am happy to believe in a God that has a plan for me, wether I'm right or wrong. I would rather believe that God exists and I may not understand Him, but I'll die happy in my faith than miserable or confused without any faith (NOT to say that you or anyone else here is, we just differ in opinion, thats all
). I personally would rather believe in what you might call a
"fantasy" and there be nothing when I die, than for me to be wrong and
Heaven and Hell exists and its too late for me to do anything about it. But
that's just me personally. 
merged: 04-13-2007 ~ 12:53pm
The Bible does also say, "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth." That means (to me) that God is setting a limit for us to do our own justice on earth, but no more than that was owed. No more than an eye for one eye (don't take both eyes and his children's eyes too). But it all still is my opinion.
merged: 04-13-2007 ~ 01:18pm
I'm sorry about your quotes starting and stopping... I don't know what's with my computer...
I think the main issue I have is that good and moral people go to Hell because they do not believe in Jesus despite their good deeds. I cannot believe a just God would let even good persons to go to Hell for something like that.
That's a fine distinction. Some would say the interpretation is that humans were made of dirt. You might extrapolate it as far as elements and what not if you like but no where in the Bible does it explain how a cell works or even that proteins exist.
If there were a global flood there would be a thick layer of sediment covering the entire earth in the strata corresponding to no more than 6000 to 10000 years ago. There is no such layer in any strata. There'd be a huge amount of physical evidence. There is no such evidence.
"Human mitochondrial DNA (inherited only from one's mother) and Y chromosome DNA (from one's father) show coalescence at around 140,000 and 60,000 years ago respectively. In other words, all living humans' female line ancestry trace back to a single female (Mitochondrial Eve) at around 140,000 years ago. Via the male line, all humans can trace their ancestry back to a single male (Y-chromosomal Adam) at around 60,000 years ago."
The Ancestor's Tale, A Pilgrimage to the Dawn of Life - Richard Dawkins
Even assuming that this DNA convergence happened at the same time for male and female that was thousands of years ago. Long before Noah existed.
As for other practical information I may have been hasty. I do not know the background regarding the constellations so I will refrain from commenting on it.
Guide or not I still wish it was like a computer manual. Easier to follow.
All in all it is your own choice. I have no problems with other people believing in what they will. I only have a problem when they try to pass legislation that tries to supersedes someone else's beliefs regardless of who or what they believe in.
I understand your frustration, I wish things were easier to understand, period. I believe in time difference (God's time vs our time). I'm not sure if I'm sure about carbon dating either. What I am sure of, is what I believe. I also want to let you know that I appreciate all your feedback and I hope I've made you think more openly about the subject in general.
You
don't have to think the same way as I do, or vice versa... people always want
others to agree with them, but if we were all alike... noone would be special.
I'm not here to condone or condemn anyone, find your own awnsers, listen to what others have to say on the matter, then you decide what you believe. I have my beliefs for my own reasons, as do all of you. We all are different, and that's great. We all need to figure out where we stand on what issues and not just blindly decide one thing is true over another. I could be wrong, you could be wrong... but hey, its ok. Like I said, I wish we all could be right.
Have a wonderful day
.
People starve because there are selfish people, one of them is me, who do not want to share their food with them. Do you know that the planet can provide food for 10 billions of people? Whose fault is that people starve? Is it God's, for not creating enough food?
Just because you know the result of a problem beforehand that doesn't mean that you don't solve it. Just because the result of a battle is obvious doesn't mean that the battle will not take place. God wants you to live and the fact that we live is enough proof.
Actually babies who die instantly after birth without being baptized (i don't know if that's the right word) still may go to hell because they bear the sin of Adam and Eve. But still it's not sure because there are many unknown factors to God's judgement. The one thing i know is that "The criterion for judgement will be love"
Of course they are because no one has the right to decide who should live or die except for the one who gives life.
Think of a man that does only good deeds in his life. He helps poor people, saves children from death, if he's a doctor, looks out for the elderly and knows about jesus and heaven but doesn't care. when he dies, why should he go to heaven since he doesn't believe in it? is it logical? to go somewhere that he believes it doesn't exist.
And, actually, the killer may have had really good reasons to kill these people because he was raised that way and then at some point, saw his mistake and repented (that's why these deaths may have been necessary and you can't know whether these people deserved them or not althought that doesn't justify his act of murder)
How many times do people say: That's a good man or that's a good person for someone they barely know just because he did a small act of good in front of them and in the back he may have robbed them of their belongings or killed a man or two? These are the good people? the ones you and i think as good or the ones that are objectively good?
"The result of pain is experience" said Aschylus. And i think you have already seen it in your life. I believe it's also an answer to the question why God allows pain to exist...
And actually what you said"Oh it must be God's eternal will that they be beaten and raped" is not something that God said but a human. So, it's not god's will but human's decision. I think a re-thought at this part may be really educative.
All these without trying to impose my opinion as the one and only because it's just the way i see things and seem pretty logical to me and not so "full of faith" or "far-fetched". I think it's the "action-reaction" and "action-consequense" style of thinking that i follow.
Thanks for reading...
yes, but the life is a lemon and i want my money back! ups.... wait a second this is a song....uahh.. well i think he is just, but i can`t understand the decision
Yes, God id fair. We have ups and downs, we could have a boring life, we could have an interesting life. God gives us all we could ever get. It is just up to us to tap it, so most of the time its our fault if we complain about our unfair fates.
How bout this : not believing in GOD is A SIN. as stated as the first commandment.
Neither do most science textbooks in primary educations
about this, do you know that the sea level in the ancient days are much more HIGHER compared to today? this is all in earth science. Other legends from different cultures than christianity mentions about a great flood too.
i hope this helps?
I'm bored and back... whatever.
Umm... take biology please... if you mean primary education as in something in elementary school, obviously you won't find it there... A biology textbook will explain how a cell works and how a protein comes to existence.
Umm... this is what he's talking about, think of it like when you're on a beach, sand comes in and out of those beach, and when the tide goes lower, some of those sands stay behind on the beach. This is what he's talking about, there is no sediments remaining from such things. Also, a wave always brings in new things... sometimes it can be seaweed, or it can be this random pollution.
Now that's a stupid sin...