Religion, some Atheists feel it blocks proper thinking and a clear path to solve
issues, some may also think it blocks reason and logic, and usually only turn
out for the worst.
Do you feel that religion leads to a path to knowledge, logic and reason. or do
you feel it only hurts these fields? That religion only blinds ones path to
understanding? Does religion tend to lead to peace or war?
Why or why not?
Now that i think about the title i should have said Does Religion cloud Reason
and Logic(stupid me)
Shinsen89
PS. personally i believe that religion causes more damage then good but (and
thats a big but), i believe if atheists develop a strong ideology and it is not
flexible as a philosophy can be, i believe we have become what we have disliked
the most( no offense to any of the many good religious folks out there)
that really depends ultimately on the emotions/mood of the pursonjudging
religeon, for me pursonally, religion is somethign that confuses me alot, as an
ethic i follow the orthodox code, and some (mor like alot) of the stuff they
teach, much confuses my logic on life, which makes me disbelieve ALOT, and
because i have more faith in my logic, its made it so that religion is wrong for
me
religion if clashing can lead to war, much more oftn to peace,
for example the crusades, cristianity vs muslims,
and again the 'war on terrorism' which ultimately started by muslims suicding
for there beliefs and the thought they were doing the world justice by killing
christians.
again its dependant on each person, since where all unique.
Religion was originally meant to gather people of the same belief and mind-set,
similar to a fan-club!
Its not religion that causes problem, it's the misunderstanding men have about
religion..
Religion or faith is something personal and should never be viewed as a public
issue. It does not matter what the other person believes in as long as it
doesn't bother you, nor do you need to impose on the other person what u
think...
Why else do u think everyone is given a brain? I mean, people are supposed to
think for themselves not confused and told what to think about!
I also believe people should be allowed to choose their religion rather than
being told they were born into one! Every person is born an individual with the
right to shape his/her own life.. Guidance is necessary but not imposition..
They should be reminded from time to time to form their own views and think
whats best for them rather than be told always..
Maybe, in the first place, Religion does not destroy reason and logic. But Some
people uses Religion as a tool to manipulate and control people. and to use
Religion as a tool, reason and logic had to be destroyed, you can't "In the
name of God" someone that often uses critical reasoning skills.
Religion alone does not destroy reason and logic.
Religion as a tool, destroys reason and logic.
Granted i am not blaming religon for everything, I'm just asking the
question,but i'm going to use a great quote a friend of mine here on MT Gave
me(Cough Alex, Cough)
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and
evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes
religion."
-Steven Weinberg
"I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of
fanatics of every denomination be called the will of god. I have seen too much
religion in the eyes of too many murderers. Holiness is in right action, and
courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness."
That about sums up what I think. I think if you are a rational human being and
can handel being religious without going batshit crazy, then religion is fine.
There are a lot of good, church going people out there, but like with
everything, you have a few good people and a lot of assholes. Like these
fundamentalist assholes who fuck everything up. It doesn't matter what you
belive just that you have beliefs. And even if you are athiest, I dont care.
Most all of my friends are too. It's not my place or authority to judge you or
anyone the way these fuck heads do. They follow so close mindedly that its a
wonder their brains can get any oxygen with their heads so far up their own
asses. After everything i see on the news and after being told that "I'm
the devil" 50 times just becuase i curse and listen to heavy metal, I have
renouced my religion, but not my faith. I do believe in god, but then I also
believe in the Big Bang theory and Evolution. Not sure what to call myself
(might be leaning more toward Deism like Jefferson). But the thing I wish people
would understand is that all religion is bascially the same. Just like the food
at Taco Bell. Its all the same, it just might not be assembled the way you want
it. Which is why it pisses me off when people in the middle east kill each other
and say "You are infidels!". Which is bullshit anyway. Jihad my ass,
its a fucking turf war. They're fighting over dirt and rocks just becuase it has
some biblical importance.
"Look! Theres the rock Muhammed took a piss on!"
"No! that's the rock Jesus took a piss on!"
"INFIDEL! I challenge you to....MORTAL
COMBAT!"
I dont think any deity who created us wants us to kill each other other some
stupid belief. I also try to refrain from reading the bible becuase it's filled
with historical inaccuracies and it has been changed too many times. The Roman
Catholic Church had its way with the bible the way those priests had their way
with those boys. They discarded a LOT of stuff. For instance, did you know Adam
(as in Adam and Eve) had a first wife named Lilith? Yeah. I'm 18 and I just
heard about it this month. But the bible is good for one really good thing.
Morals. The bible has some great morals and just everyday lessons. "Don't
get jealous of your nieghbors new lawnmower and stab him to death with a salad
fork" shit like that (of course its arguable that common sense should tell
you thats a bad idea, but it's nice to have a reference just in case). And I
also dont pray to God. It seems a little arrogant and selfish to me. I mean God
created the universe and gave us life. Created this beautiful planet for us
(even though we arent taking care of it like we should). And its not the people
who pray for help when doing something difficult that pisses me off, its the
assholes who pray for a new car, or to get with that hot girl, or to lose
weight, etc. Well, i think i have ranted enough for right now.
yup more a philosopher than an atheist myself I think neither of your options
are true. Ignorance blinds, if it is only religion you know of it will seem like
religion is the cause. But with proper development any individual faithless or
not can find logic and reason and happiness.
Well, I certainly believe that those who hold religious beliefs are more likely
to hold superstitious ones as well. I do believe that it plays a significant
role in what people are willing to believe. I mean, you wouldn't see an Atheist
at some Benny Hinn healing and such. In my opinion, someone who denies or is
critical of religion is usually more scientifically-natured than someone who
subscribes to a religion.
Quote by ProgramZEROI mean, you
wouldn't see an Atheist at some Benny Hinn healing and
such.
Unless they're there for some laughs.
Well, since religions rest on things like faith, superstition, unreason, and
indoctrination, then I'd have to say that they do harm critical thinking and
reason since they are in many ways opposites.
I must say that maverick mechanic words ware quite impressive.
You all are forgetting the through time a lot of this religions that we know now
(not all) especially Christianity ware deformed although time.
Christianity was first a religion who was supoust to give hope to the pore, the
hope that they will not be forgotten just because they don't have big gifts for
god. And look what has become of it.
And I agree that religion itself is not the meager problem, it's how we use it.
As with everything else (and repeating what several others have said) it really
only applies at the individuals level. Take myself - I am not particularly
religious but I do identify myself as a Christian when asked about my religion.
I do not really like institutionalized religions simple because I am sure enough
of myself to be able to say my "core" (for lack of a better word)
beliefs are sound (at least in my mind) and the rest I'll figure out as I go
along (never was one to do things the easy way). As for religion interfering
with logic and/or reasoning, thats pretty much BS with the exception (there will
always be exceptions) of the extremists. In addition to being a
"believer" I am also an engineer so I live and breath logic and
reasoning on a daily basis (engineering does not work otherwise unless you are
really really lucky).
Therefore that leads me to believe that for ordinary well rounded/educated
people for the most part, that religion is complementary and not contrary to
reasoning and logic
Quote by Shinsengumi89Maverick
Mechanic, could you tone down the insults?
the only poeple i'm insulting are idiots and i dont care about them
haha. yeah i'll tone it down a little. i
just get pissed when people dont use the brain that god gave them.
Well I am a Deist (a person who doesn't believe in a certain religion, but
believes there's a higher power somewhere; just no sure who it is). Religion is
a very confusing topic. Strong believers go by the bible and strongly abide by
it. Then they try to make you believe it. I dont even know where i'm going with
this.. I'm actually pretty scared of very religious people. I was having a
debate in my social studies class and it was pretty intense. Some Muslim girls
were talking about some dude that drew the prophet in Denmark. One of them said
"The Prophet should never be drawn; it should only be your imagination. The
guy that drew it should be shot!... multiple times!" It was pretty odd
because she was quiet all the time. Another girl said "You always hear
about people who disagree about our culture. I go agree that men and women
should be separated. Because men and women are together, there is chaos and
misfortune!"
I personally believe that it [religion] does destroy logic and reason. The bible
has so many stories in it yet, a handful of them may or may not be true. When
you go to school, you learn logically and then you just don't know what to
believe anymore. I try to stay away from religion; it's too much for me.
Religion does not handicap logic or such other related topics. It actually
expands logic,its how people use the logic,to start a war or to save other
people..That is all
Quote: the only poeple i'm
insulting are idiots and i dont care about them
haha. yeah i'll tone it down a little. i
just get pissed when people dont use the brain that god gave
them.[
Well, as for me (what I see to it as) in a way, religion clouds logic and
reasoning mainly because of the fact that religion itself has a lot of
unreasonable and illogical things. It also creates a sort of denial for some
people (some, not all) and they're less willing to be accepting and this can be
some part cause for a lot of things that being different is bad or
whatever.
My english teacher (he's a WEIRD english teacher) says that a lot of thing thats
moral and ethics come from religion, but I think that he really didn't put much
thought into it because those morals and ethics, they are developed by ourselves
and our sense of ego. In a way, it does clouds thoughts of those whom believe
solely on the bible or whichever religion they bide by.
Just a note, why is that whenever there's something like religion pops up, why
does someone mention war... now it just seems annoying as hell.
for me i think religon is the path to inlitenmente and reason but religon also
leads to bad things as well what i hate is those religes fanaticks they are some
of the most vile polpe on earth so much war and hate and intollerance has been
caused by religous fanaticks.....
Is my personal believe that religion, politics and may other things in life are
just misjudged, as we fail to acknowledge that at the end what we use to create
our opinions for religion or politics is just the actions of a handfull of
people that have left a mark in history or people actions we have seen or heard
on those subjects. Take for example COMUNISIM [I hope that's well writen] well
that's a heavy word isn't it, hugh? Of course it is. Now the whole idea behind
that ideology is for everybody to be equal, is that too much to ask, well I
guess it is since almost everybody gets a bad feeling just by hearing the word;
now lets drop that though and lets thing about the word HEAVEN for most people
it means the end of all needs and eternal happiness, but how? If todays
happiness is usually associated to been successfull which for many, would only
mean having aquired a good possition in life or in other words been able to
purchase all or most of the things you want. So going back to the original
question I believe that religion and other thing have used and twisted from
their original goal which in no way to conflict with any other mean that could
lead to hard fact or truth if you will; it's just that we like with everything
used to our best convinience. Well that's what I think. Soon I'll find out if I
was right or wrong but in the mean time, right and wrong are absolute and if I
need to thing twice about one thing before doing it is very likely that I'm
looking for an excuse to do what I want and not what I must . . . Bye 4 now.
Quote by ProgramZEROI mean, you
wouldn't see an Atheist at some Benny Hinn healing and
such.
Unless they're there for some laughs.
Well, since religions rest on things like faith, superstition, unreason, and
indoctrination, then I'd have to say that they do harm critical thinking and
reason since they are in many ways opposites.
Good point.
Well, you know what they say about faith; it's belief without reason.
Most religons have a massive amount of faith involved(buddhisim does not due to
the fat they are a Atheistic Religon).
Religon almost always requires an ideology, that being a set standard of rules
and a thought process of right and wrong with no budging, so in a sense faith
would be a major ingredient do belive in rules ith no factual base to them.
But faith can be used in diffrent situations, as well i wouldn't say they are
the same thing.
Personally I think as long as you think and analyze correctly you will never
need any help to determine what's good or bad. I think it depends on person and
how much he allows it to influence his life. Some people become totally deaf and
blind! You cannot reason with them at all coz the simply don't want to or can't
understand what you're trying to explain. But I know some other believers, who
have settled correctly with their beliefs. You can speak with them few words.
Religion has it's limits. It's just like a frame, if you like the picture then
you are either bind by the limits or you never think what's happening beyond it.
Religion, some Atheists feel it blocks proper thinking and a clear path to solve issues, some may also think it blocks reason and logic, and usually only turn out for the worst.
Do you feel that religion leads to a path to knowledge, logic and reason. or do you feel it only hurts these fields? That religion only blinds ones path to understanding? Does religion tend to lead to peace or war?
Why or why not?
Now that i think about the title i should have said Does Religion cloud Reason and Logic(stupid me)
Shinsen89
PS. personally i believe that religion causes more damage then good but (and thats a big but), i believe if atheists develop a strong ideology and it is not flexible as a philosophy can be, i believe we have become what we have disliked the most( no offense to any of the many good religious folks out there)
that really depends ultimately on the emotions/mood of the pursonjudging religeon, for me pursonally, religion is somethign that confuses me alot, as an ethic i follow the orthodox code, and some (mor like alot) of the stuff they teach, much confuses my logic on life, which makes me disbelieve ALOT, and because i have more faith in my logic, its made it so that religion is wrong for me
religion if clashing can lead to war, much more oftn to peace,
for example the crusades, cristianity vs muslims,
and again the 'war on terrorism' which ultimately started by muslims suicding for there beliefs and the thought they were doing the world justice by killing christians.
again its dependant on each person, since where all unique.
Religion was originally meant to gather people of the same belief and mind-set, similar to a fan-club!
Its not religion that causes problem, it's the misunderstanding men have about religion..
Religion or faith is something personal and should never be viewed as a public issue. It does not matter what the other person believes in as long as it doesn't bother you, nor do you need to impose on the other person what u think...
Why else do u think everyone is given a brain? I mean, people are supposed to think for themselves not confused and told what to think about!
I also believe people should be allowed to choose their religion rather than being told they were born into one! Every person is born an individual with the right to shape his/her own life.. Guidance is necessary but not imposition.. They should be reminded from time to time to form their own views and think whats best for them rather than be told always..
Maybe, in the first place, Religion does not destroy reason and logic. But Some people uses Religion as a tool to manipulate and control people. and to use Religion as a tool, reason and logic had to be destroyed, you can't "In the name of God" someone that often uses critical reasoning skills.
Religion alone does not destroy reason and logic.
Religion as a tool, destroys reason and logic.
Granted i am not blaming religon for everything, I'm just asking the question,but i'm going to use a great quote a friend of mine here on MT Gave me(Cough Alex, Cough)
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
-Steven Weinberg
"I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of god. I have seen too much religion in the eyes of too many murderers. Holiness is in right action, and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness."
That about sums up what I think. I think if you are a rational human being and can handel being religious without going batshit crazy, then religion is fine. There are a lot of good, church going people out there, but like with everything, you have a few good people and a lot of assholes. Like these fundamentalist assholes who fuck everything up. It doesn't matter what you belive just that you have beliefs. And even if you are athiest, I dont care. Most all of my friends are too. It's not my place or authority to judge you or anyone the way these fuck heads do. They follow so close mindedly that its a wonder their brains can get any oxygen with their heads so far up their own asses. After everything i see on the news and after being told that "I'm the devil" 50 times just becuase i curse and listen to heavy metal, I have renouced my religion, but not my faith. I do believe in god, but then I also believe in the Big Bang theory and Evolution. Not sure what to call myself (might be leaning more toward Deism like Jefferson). But the thing I wish people would understand is that all religion is bascially the same. Just like the food at Taco Bell. Its all the same, it just might not be assembled the way you want it. Which is why it pisses me off when people in the middle east kill each other and say "You are infidels!". Which is bullshit anyway. Jihad my ass, its a fucking turf war. They're fighting over dirt and rocks just becuase it has some biblical importance.
"Look! Theres the rock Muhammed took a piss on!"
"No! that's the rock Jesus took a piss on!"
"INFIDEL! I challenge you to....MORTAL COMBAT!"
I dont think any deity who created us wants us to kill each other other some stupid belief. I also try to refrain from reading the bible becuase it's filled with historical inaccuracies and it has been changed too many times. The Roman Catholic Church had its way with the bible the way those priests had their way with those boys. They discarded a LOT of stuff. For instance, did you know Adam (as in Adam and Eve) had a first wife named Lilith? Yeah. I'm 18 and I just heard about it this month. But the bible is good for one really good thing. Morals. The bible has some great morals and just everyday lessons. "Don't get jealous of your nieghbors new lawnmower and stab him to death with a salad fork" shit like that (of course its arguable that common sense should tell you thats a bad idea, but it's nice to have a reference just in case). And I also dont pray to God. It seems a little arrogant and selfish to me. I mean God created the universe and gave us life. Created this beautiful planet for us (even though we arent taking care of it like we should). And its not the people who pray for help when doing something difficult that pisses me off, its the assholes who pray for a new car, or to get with that hot girl, or to lose weight, etc. Well, i think i have ranted enough for right now.
yup more a philosopher than an atheist myself I think neither of your options are true. Ignorance blinds, if it is only religion you know of it will seem like religion is the cause. But with proper development any individual faithless or not can find logic and reason and happiness.
Maverick Mechanic, could you tone down the insults?
Well, I certainly believe that those who hold religious beliefs are more likely to hold superstitious ones as well. I do believe that it plays a significant role in what people are willing to believe. I mean, you wouldn't see an Atheist at some Benny Hinn healing and such. In my opinion, someone who denies or is critical of religion is usually more scientifically-natured than someone who subscribes to a religion.
Unless they're there for some laughs.
Well, since religions rest on things like faith, superstition, unreason, and indoctrination, then I'd have to say that they do harm critical thinking and reason since they are in many ways opposites.
I must say that maverick mechanic words ware quite impressive.
You all are forgetting the through time a lot of this religions that we know now (not all) especially Christianity ware deformed although time.
Christianity was first a religion who was supoust to give hope to the pore, the hope that they will not be forgotten just because they don't have big gifts for god. And look what has become of it.
And I agree that religion itself is not the meager problem, it's how we use it.
As with everything else (and repeating what several others have said) it really only applies at the individuals level. Take myself - I am not particularly religious but I do identify myself as a Christian when asked about my religion. I do not really like institutionalized religions simple because I am sure enough of myself to be able to say my "core" (for lack of a better word) beliefs are sound (at least in my mind) and the rest I'll figure out as I go along (never was one to do things the easy way). As for religion interfering with logic and/or reasoning, thats pretty much BS with the exception (there will always be exceptions) of the extremists. In addition to being a "believer" I am also an engineer so I live and breath logic and reasoning on a daily basis (engineering does not work otherwise unless you are really really lucky).
Therefore that leads me to believe that for ordinary well rounded/educated people for the most part, that religion is complementary and not contrary to reasoning and logic
the only poeple i'm insulting are idiots and i dont care about them
haha. yeah i'll tone it down a little. 
i
just get pissed when people dont use the brain that god gave them.
Well I am a Deist (a person who doesn't believe in a certain religion, but believes there's a higher power somewhere; just no sure who it is). Religion is a very confusing topic. Strong believers go by the bible and strongly abide by it. Then they try to make you believe it. I dont even know where i'm going with this.. I'm actually pretty scared of very religious people. I was having a debate in my social studies class and it was pretty intense. Some Muslim girls were talking about some dude that drew the prophet in Denmark. One of them said "The Prophet should never be drawn; it should only be your imagination. The guy that drew it should be shot!... multiple times!" It was pretty odd because she was quiet all the time. Another girl said "You always hear about people who disagree about our culture. I go agree that men and women should be separated. Because men and women are together, there is chaos and misfortune!"
I personally believe that it [religion] does destroy logic and reason. The bible has so many stories in it yet, a handful of them may or may not be true. When you go to school, you learn logically and then you just don't know what to believe anymore. I try to stay away from religion; it's too much for me.
Religion does not handicap logic or such other related topics. It actually expands logic,its how people use the logic,to start a war or to save other people..That is all
i understand thanks
Well, as for me (what I see to it as) in a way, religion clouds logic and reasoning mainly because of the fact that religion itself has a lot of unreasonable and illogical things. It also creates a sort of denial for some people (some, not all) and they're less willing to be accepting and this can be some part cause for a lot of things that being different is bad or whatever.
My english teacher (he's a WEIRD english teacher) says that a lot of thing thats moral and ethics come from religion, but I think that he really didn't put much thought into it because those morals and ethics, they are developed by ourselves and our sense of ego. In a way, it does clouds thoughts of those whom believe solely on the bible or whichever religion they bide by.
Just a note, why is that whenever there's something like religion pops up, why does someone mention war... now it just seems annoying as hell.
for me i think religon is the path to inlitenmente and reason but religon also leads to bad things as well what i hate is those religes fanaticks they are some of the most vile polpe on earth so much war and hate and intollerance has been caused by religous fanaticks.....
People,
Is my personal believe that religion, politics and may other things in life are just misjudged, as we fail to acknowledge that at the end what we use to create our opinions for religion or politics is just the actions of a handfull of people that have left a mark in history or people actions we have seen or heard on those subjects. Take for example COMUNISIM [I hope that's well writen] well that's a heavy word isn't it, hugh? Of course it is. Now the whole idea behind that ideology is for everybody to be equal, is that too much to ask, well I guess it is since almost everybody gets a bad feeling just by hearing the word; now lets drop that though and lets thing about the word HEAVEN for most people it means the end of all needs and eternal happiness, but how? If todays happiness is usually associated to been successfull which for many, would only mean having aquired a good possition in life or in other words been able to purchase all or most of the things you want. So going back to the original question I believe that religion and other thing have used and twisted from their original goal which in no way to conflict with any other mean that could lead to hard fact or truth if you will; it's just that we like with everything used to our best convinience. Well that's what I think. Soon I'll find out if I was right or wrong but in the mean time, right and wrong are absolute and if I need to thing twice about one thing before doing it is very likely that I'm looking for an excuse to do what I want and not what I must . . . Bye 4 now.
Good point. Well, you know what they say about faith; it's belief without reason.
^ I was waiting for someone to put it so concisely. As we can see, the answer to this question is that reason and faith are mutually exclusive.
So is religion the same as faith?
Most religons have a massive amount of faith involved(buddhisim does not due to the fat they are a Atheistic Religon).
Religon almost always requires an ideology, that being a set standard of rules and a thought process of right and wrong with no budging, so in a sense faith would be a major ingredient do belive in rules ith no factual base to them.
But faith can be used in diffrent situations, as well i wouldn't say they are the same thing.
Personally I think as long as you think and analyze correctly you will never need any help to determine what's good or bad. I think it depends on person and how much he allows it to influence his life. Some people become totally deaf and blind! You cannot reason with them at all coz the simply don't want to or can't understand what you're trying to explain. But I know some other believers, who have settled correctly with their beliefs. You can speak with them few words.
Religion has it's limits. It's just like a frame, if you like the picture then you are either bind by the limits or you never think what's happening beyond it.