I think about this so many times.
If there is a god, then who created god? Was he just created out of nothing? If
god and Jesus knew each of us so good, then they wouldn't have to send us here
down to earth. If they loved us so much, then they wouldn't have to make us come
down here to earth. If they knew us so good, then they would know every single
little mistake or righteous thing we did, or are going to do, which means we
don't need to come to earth. They know if we make it to heaven or hel.
Not just that, but if satan is pure evil, then he is too evil to know that he is
evil. (some of you might not know what I'm talking about) He is so evil, that he wouldn't know that evil is evil, and think that evil is
righteous. Not just that, but didn't god created each one of us...EVEN SATAN?
Well, if he did, then he knew that satan was going to be bad, and do this. sorry
if this didn't make sense to any of you.
Well falling in to the Atheists cast this isn't really my field.
The party line is he is the Alpha and the Omega then some stuff about existing
every place at every time. Over all i find this to really make god's existence
rather pointless. If god didn't need a maker why does the universe.
If you believe the party line Jesus didn't know us. He was sent to judge if we
where worthy of another chance or some such. short version "he found us
worthy and died on the cross to forgive us of our sins" if i recall
right.
As for god. It really depends on if you believe in free will or not. If you
think everything is set in a stone called fate. Then yep it is all pointless. If
you believe in free will. Then there is the chance you will do something not
expected. How ever unlikely that is. There is a strong argument for the free
will thing. If your created in gods image, and your a slave to fate. Then god
too must be a slave to something.
There is a huge difference in being evil and being deluded. Satan would know
what he is doing isn't "good" he just wouldn't care. Lest that is the
case if you follow the bibles version of the story to the letter.
Yep god created Satan. As the story goes he was once gods right hand angel. Then
he got fed up with god and led an army of fellow angels (if i rember the text
right it was something like "equal to 1/3 the stars in the night sky")
in a rebellion. They lost and where cast out of heaven landing on earth of all
places.
I'm aethist. But I kinda have my own point. So if you don't wanna read any
aethist comments, please ignore this.
I don't really believe that there's an almighty God. But I also believe that I
should accept other people's religion and beliefs, because that's only fair. So
I'm gonna use the God context, because there is also a possibility that He
exists.
I think God knew there would be evil, because, then there will only be a balance
in all things. If there is only good but no evil, then what does good mean if
there's nothing that contradicts it? Just the same as light and darkness,
without one of them, we're either consumed in darkness or blinded by
light.
i heard from a Christian that God sent us here to test us, maybe not our faith,
but maybe yes. But i believe His whole idea is to see what YOU would do in this
world. Maybe living on Earth brings out the true you. So it's to see whether
you'd be a good person, or a bad one.
I guess that's all for me comments. Hope you don't mind
On my point of view, yet another atheist's view, weird isn't it?
I don't believe in a god, and probably won't but just a view on god, if he
truely is a good "thing" or "person" or whatever, I don't
think he would bother people must believe in a religion and worship him. I
personally see to it as just if god was to truely be an omnibenevolent (I doubt
it if given religious terms) umm... "whatever" (since no one seen him
before, thus I'm assuming god can be a she, he, or an it) why judge someone by
their faith rather why not judge someone by what they do and the good they do.
Just on a side note, if there's a heaven, wouldn't it overpopulate, or is heaven
like infinitely big, which would be amusing.
And if there truely is a satan... why is the devil always pictured as some
"thing" that's all red with horns and this tail. If he was an angel,
unless god disfigured satan or something, shouldn't satan remain as an angel or
something? Just a thought.
Method one of torturing in hell: Don't do anything, why? Because it's CROWDED!
xP
I'm bored.... nooooo *cries* waaaahhhhh *falls asleep*
On my point of view, yet another atheist's view, weird isn't it?
I don't believe in a god, and probably won't but just a view on god, if he
truely is a good "thing" or "person" or whatever, I don't
think he would bother people must believe in a religion and worship him. I
personally see to it as just if god was to truely be an omnibenevolent (I doubt
it if given religious terms) umm... "whatever" (since no one seen him
before, thus I'm assuming god can be a she, he, or an it) why judge someone by
their faith rather why not judge someone by what they do and the good they do.
Just on a side note, if there's a heaven, wouldn't it overpopulate, or is heaven
like infinitely big, which would be amusing.
And if there truely is a satan... why is the devil always pictured as some
"thing" that's all red with horns and this tail. If he was an angel,
unless god disfigured satan or something, shouldn't satan remain as an angel or
something? Just a thought.
Method one of torturing in hell: Don't do anything, why? Because it's CROWDED!
xP
I'm bored.... nooooo *cries* waaaahhhhh *falls asleep*
meh...no offense or anything...but i think this might offend someone...
Well, I'm not exactly religious, nor am I an atheist, but I'll have to say this
- we can't really prove that there's a God (or gods) or that there's no God
either. This is just something we don't know for sure. The way I see it, there
is a possibility that there is such a being called God, or maybe there's more
than one God. Or maybe there's no such thing as God at all. The believe in God
is more of faith, in my opinion, not some scientific or historical fact. The
Christians believe in Jesus, the Muslims believe in Allah, and other religions
(or races) believe in their personal gods. So is there really a God? I can't
really answer that question and back it up with proofs. Maybe He (or they)
exists, and maybe he doesn't . And as for Satan, we're always saying that God
created Satan. Perhaps Satan was the one who created God instead of the other
way round? No offense or anything, it's just something I had wondered about.
There may be a God, but there may be not. Who knows? It's unlikely, but still
barely possible, from a scientific point of view.
But if we analyse a few things, we get to the conclusion that the God that maybe
exists is not necessarily the same God people believe in.
1. Because Christianity is not the only religion.
2. Because it's highly unlikely an almighty being would focus on a group of
clever, shaved and skilful monkeys.
Besides, the idea of Hell is a toy gun, used to manipulate people. We may not
notice it, because the world seems more civilised than in the Dark Ages, but
it's true.
Today, religion in Europe and USA is used in pop culture. Most of the people
cannot be called Christians or Atheists - they are simply neutral. They don't
care about religion much, since technology is developing, medicine proves that
what we call humanity can be manipulated. Moral laws are changed in order to
make progress. Religion, or rather some part of it, is only in the way.
I don't care about the existence of God. My everyday life is overfilled with
dilemmas, technical problems, choices. As a student, and a future engineer, I
have only One Major Commandment:
1. Nevermind about bullshit, it's twilight and you're still in the middle of
work!
you really think your gonna find the answer to how God was created?There is a
verse in the bible that says that there will be things hidden from mankind(as in
knowledge) and thats clearly a question nobody knows.If your really in finding
out the truth,die and ask Jesus.(cant say where your going though).and i see the
same people who are telling me to get off the atheist question getting on this
question made for mostly christians,and yet they have no mercy in responding.i
guess there are hypocritical atheists as well as religious people.
It said mostly christians! Not only christians, like someone on this page...i
wont say any names. Back on topic though, is there a god. I dont really know but
it hasnt been discredited. I dont think anyone will really ever know. But if you
are a christian,(kingray would most likely say)have faith and you will most
likely get your answer in "the end". Thats just what i think a
christian would say about that... Its not nessicarely my veiw on the subject
though. i dont think there is because what kind of god would let its
"children" die and kill people for no reason? My opinion, please dont
start bashing me!
Quote: meh...no offense or
anything...but i think this might offend someone...
Yes, I know, hehehe. I'm just posting what I think anyways, that okay?
>.>
Quote: you really think your gonna
find the answer to how God was created?There is a verse in the bible that says
that there will be things hidden from mankind(as in knowledge) and thats clearly
a question nobody knows.If your really in finding out the truth,die and ask
Jesus.(cant say where your going though).and i see the same people who are
telling me to get off the atheist question getting on this question made for
mostly christians,and yet they have no mercy in responding.i guess there are
hypocritical atheists as well as religious people.
Just post your thoughts already... that or just try to answer some of the
questions and not be so hostile about everything...
Quote by kingray100you really think
your gonna find the answer to how God was created?There is a verse in the bible
that says that there will be things hidden from mankind(as in knowledge) and
thats clearly a question nobody knows.If your really in finding out the
truth,die and ask Jesus.(cant say where your going though).and i see the same
people who are telling me to get off the atheist question getting on this
question made for mostly christians,and yet they have no mercy in responding.i
guess there are hypocritical atheists as well as religious
people.
The difference is we're not trying to convince anyone anything, but simply
trying to state our opinions on God. Answer the thread's question, not talk
about something else. In the other thread, you simply turned the whole thread
into something else. Observe this thread, what does the question ask? Are we
answering the question? Yes we are. And what about the other thread? You were
not answering the question, mostly because you're not an atheist yourself.
Simple as that. Oh and this is an open forum, anyone can reply, so long they're
not being pushy or rude or violating any rules.
Quote by Faffy09It said mostly
christians! Not only christians, like someone on this page...i wont say any
names. Back on topic though, is there a god. I dont really know but it hasnt
been discredited. I dont think anyone will really ever know. But if you are a
christian,(kingray would most likely say)have faith and you will most likely get
your answer in "the end". Thats just what i think a christian would
say about that... Its not nessicarely my veiw on the subject though. i dont
think there is because what kind of god would let its "children" die
and kill people for no reason? My opinion, please dont start bashing
me!
As a Christian, I wouldnt just say wait until the end
because while Im living there is also personal evidence and answers to my
questions.God isnt going to come down and stop people from killing each other
because first,its humanity's fault.Second,God isnt a forceful God,and gives us
free will in what we do.When i looked at this thread i didnt see a clear
question,but If the question is if i believe in god?yes.
Btw,could you answer my pm faffy?you answer to these threads but never to my
pm's...
I believe in the existance of God. I'm also a scientist. I believe how I want to
believe... others do the same. Is this thread looking for "proof" of
God's existance?
I think that there is a balance of power between good and evil. I also think
that God has always been... though, I don't know how or why. Its just a belief.
I don't always want physical proof for everything I believe, but I do like to
see some evidence once in awhile.
How can this thread have a point if you're asking christians if there is a God?
Quote by HikaruKageI'm aethist. But I
kinda have my own point. So if you don't wanna read any aethist comments, please
ignore this.
I don't really believe that there's an almighty God. But I also believe that I
should accept other people's religion and beliefs, because that's only fair. So
I'm gonna use the God context, because there is also a possibility that He
exists.
I think God knew there would be evil, because, then there will only be a balance
in all things. If there is only good but no evil, then what does good mean if
there's nothing that contradicts it? Just the same as light and darkness,
without one of them, we're either consumed in darkness or blinded by
light.
i heard from a Christian that God sent us here to test us, maybe not our faith,
but maybe yes. But i believe His whole idea is to see what YOU would do in this
world. Maybe living on Earth brings out the true you. So it's to see whether
you'd be a good person, or a bad one.
I guess that's all for me comments. Hope you don't
mind
Yes, I now see your view, and am starting to
agree. Maybe we are all on this earth trying to find out who are we
Quote: you never proved how your
not hypocrical as well.is it because you know its
true?
Why should I need to prove it to you? You however, seek approval so badly that
you're ruining your reputation and the reputation of Christians. Come on,
Christians are not mean. They're nice people who don't give such incriminating
comments. They are open minded.
Oh yeah. If I need to prove it to you that I'm not hypocritical, why can't
atheists demand proof on the existence of God?
Come on, there is no evidence that God exists, but there is also no evidence
that God does NOT exists. We atheists are just keeping our possibilities open,
without joining any religion.
Quote by HikaruKage Come on,
Christians are not mean. They're nice people who don't give such incriminating
comments. They are open minded.
how about the Crusades or Priests [men of God] whom have molested
children?
Quote by HikaruKage
Come on, there is no evidence that God exists, but there is also no evidence
that God does NOT exists. We atheists are just keeping our possibilities open,
without joining any religion.
Quote by DREAMYes,
and I am Him.
seriously in answer to your query- god is dead.
that was very
uncalled for.Dont even bother responding.
eh? lol a troll, perhaps?.
it's quite simple- god/devil & heaven/hell do not exist. they are merely a
product of people's yearning for comfort and meaning in their lives. something
bad happens? blame it on Satan or curse God for not intervening. i find that
funny- because it is in our human nature to destroy ourselves. the human race
[in general] has continued down it very own downward spiral. greed, power,
anarchy, pursuit of wealth, fratricide, genocide, etc. the human race in general
are pathetic creatures and sadly quite predictable.
they are only 2 definitives: one is born and one dies. this is the law of
nature.
Quote by HikaruKage
Come on, there is no evidence that God exists, but there is also no evidence
that God does NOT exists. We atheists are just keeping our possibilities open,
without joining any religion.
your viewpoint is more
agnostic than atheist.
Agnosticism deals with knowledge,
while atheism deals with belief in god(s). If you're an atheist, you don't hold
the belief that any gods exist (which has nothing to do with denying their
existence), while if you're an agnostic it means you lack knowledge, in this
context you lack knowledge about the existence of god(s). You can be an agnostic
theist, a theist who isn't sure of the existence of one or more gods, or an
agnostic atheist, an atheist who isn't sure of the nonexistence of one or more
gods. If you're a gnostic (strong) theist or a gnostic (strong) atheist, you
believe you are either certain about the existence of one or more gods or you
are certain about the nonexistence about one or more gods.
I don't believe that there is an almighty God. But i'm not claiming that there
is no possibility of there being one. I don't hold strong views on my own belief
because there are a lot of possibilities that cannot be proven.
And there is also a possibility of atheist believing that there is no God for
self-comfort also.
My point is, one shouldn't be too critical over things as unsure and unproven as
religion, because it is very hard to prove the existence or non-existence, and
it's also somewhat of a sensitive issue. Of course, one may find it strange to
find something so ambiguous as a sensitive issue, but to religious people, it is
a sensitive issue. To extremists, they'll probably kill you for it.
And about Crusaders and priests who do heinous things, I don't think those can
even be called people. I don't think Christians are proud of them either.
There's always imperfection in all things, you know. If you really feel like
incriminating, maybe one should go ask oneself (myself...mostly) "Am I
really that good?"
Oh yeah, and I was referring to Kingray as a comparison, not Crusaders. But one
can question a lot about other religions you know. Like in thailand, or
indonesia or actually, anywhere. There are lots of racial spats which often
result in horrible, horrible deaths and crime. It's not religion, it's humans
and war. War turns human beings into monsters.
Quote by DREAMhow about the Crusades or
Priests [men of God] whom have molested children?
I'd blame the people who did it, not the religion itself. I'm pretty sure that
if God exists, he won't go around telling his believers to kill non-believers.
There are other people from other religions who do the same/similar things as
well, so to say that that Christians are horrible people based on that would be
completely unfair. I guess another way to put it would be, just because the
people who did it blame their actions on their religion doesn't mean that their
God asked them to do it.
I think about this so many times.
He is so evil, that he wouldn't know that evil is evil, and think that evil is
righteous. Not just that, but didn't god created each one of us...EVEN SATAN?
Well, if he did, then he knew that satan was going to be bad, and do this. sorry
if this didn't make sense to any of you.
If there is a god, then who created god? Was he just created out of nothing? If god and Jesus knew each of us so good, then they wouldn't have to send us here down to earth. If they loved us so much, then they wouldn't have to make us come down here to earth. If they knew us so good, then they would know every single little mistake or righteous thing we did, or are going to do, which means we don't need to come to earth. They know if we make it to heaven or hel.
Not just that, but if satan is pure evil, then he is too evil to know that he is evil. (some of you might not know what I'm talking about)
These are some of the questions us Atheists ask ourselves.
Well falling in to the Atheists cast this isn't really my field.
The party line is he is the Alpha and the Omega then some stuff about existing every place at every time. Over all i find this to really make god's existence rather pointless. If god didn't need a maker why does the universe.
If you believe the party line Jesus didn't know us. He was sent to judge if we where worthy of another chance or some such. short version "he found us worthy and died on the cross to forgive us of our sins" if i recall right.
As for god. It really depends on if you believe in free will or not. If you think everything is set in a stone called fate. Then yep it is all pointless. If you believe in free will. Then there is the chance you will do something not expected. How ever unlikely that is. There is a strong argument for the free will thing. If your created in gods image, and your a slave to fate. Then god too must be a slave to something.
There is a huge difference in being evil and being deluded. Satan would know what he is doing isn't "good" he just wouldn't care. Lest that is the case if you follow the bibles version of the story to the letter.
Yep god created Satan. As the story goes he was once gods right hand angel. Then he got fed up with god and led an army of fellow angels (if i rember the text right it was something like "equal to 1/3 the stars in the night sky") in a rebellion. They lost and where cast out of heaven landing on earth of all places.
I'm aethist. But I kinda have my own point. So if you don't wanna read any aethist comments, please ignore this.
I don't really believe that there's an almighty God. But I also believe that I should accept other people's religion and beliefs, because that's only fair. So I'm gonna use the God context, because there is also a possibility that He exists.
I think God knew there would be evil, because, then there will only be a balance in all things. If there is only good but no evil, then what does good mean if there's nothing that contradicts it? Just the same as light and darkness, without one of them, we're either consumed in darkness or blinded by light.
i heard from a Christian that God sent us here to test us, maybe not our faith, but maybe yes. But i believe His whole idea is to see what YOU would do in this world. Maybe living on Earth brings out the true you. So it's to see whether you'd be a good person, or a bad one.
I guess that's all for me comments. Hope you don't mind
On my point of view, yet another atheist's view, weird isn't it?
I don't believe in a god, and probably won't but just a view on god, if he truely is a good "thing" or "person" or whatever, I don't think he would bother people must believe in a religion and worship him. I personally see to it as just if god was to truely be an omnibenevolent (I doubt it if given religious terms) umm... "whatever" (since no one seen him before, thus I'm assuming god can be a she, he, or an it) why judge someone by their faith rather why not judge someone by what they do and the good they do. Just on a side note, if there's a heaven, wouldn't it overpopulate, or is heaven like infinitely big, which would be amusing.
And if there truely is a satan... why is the devil always pictured as some "thing" that's all red with horns and this tail. If he was an angel, unless god disfigured satan or something, shouldn't satan remain as an angel or something? Just a thought.
Method one of torturing in hell: Don't do anything, why? Because it's CROWDED! xP
I'm bored.... nooooo *cries* waaaahhhhh *falls asleep*
meh...no offense or anything...but i think this might offend someone...
Well, I'm not exactly religious, nor am I an atheist, but I'll have to say this - we can't really prove that there's a God (or gods) or that there's no God either. This is just something we don't know for sure. The way I see it, there is a possibility that there is such a being called God, or maybe there's more than one God. Or maybe there's no such thing as God at all. The believe in God is more of faith, in my opinion, not some scientific or historical fact. The Christians believe in Jesus, the Muslims believe in Allah, and other religions (or races) believe in their personal gods. So is there really a God? I can't really answer that question and back it up with proofs. Maybe He (or they) exists, and maybe he doesn't . And as for Satan, we're always saying that God created Satan. Perhaps Satan was the one who created God instead of the other way round? No offense or anything, it's just something I had wondered about.
There may be a God, but there may be not. Who knows? It's unlikely, but still barely possible, from a scientific point of view.
But if we analyse a few things, we get to the conclusion that the God that maybe exists is not necessarily the same God people believe in.
1. Because Christianity is not the only religion.
2. Because it's highly unlikely an almighty being would focus on a group of clever, shaved and skilful monkeys.
Besides, the idea of Hell is a toy gun, used to manipulate people. We may not notice it, because the world seems more civilised than in the Dark Ages, but it's true.
Today, religion in Europe and USA is used in pop culture. Most of the people cannot be called Christians or Atheists - they are simply neutral. They don't care about religion much, since technology is developing, medicine proves that what we call humanity can be manipulated. Moral laws are changed in order to make progress. Religion, or rather some part of it, is only in the way.
I don't care about the existence of God. My everyday life is overfilled with dilemmas, technical problems, choices. As a student, and a future engineer, I have only One Major Commandment:
1. Nevermind about bullshit, it's twilight and you're still in the middle of work!
If this is aimed at Christians like you said it was. Then it's a no brainer question. Obviously yes.
you really think your gonna find the answer to how God was created?There is a verse in the bible that says that there will be things hidden from mankind(as in knowledge) and thats clearly a question nobody knows.If your really in finding out the truth,die and ask Jesus.(cant say where your going though).and i see the same people who are telling me to get off the atheist question getting on this question made for mostly christians,and yet they have no mercy in responding.i guess there are hypocritical atheists as well as religious people.
It said mostly christians! Not only christians, like someone on this page...i wont say any names. Back on topic though, is there a god. I dont really know but it hasnt been discredited. I dont think anyone will really ever know. But if you are a christian,(kingray would most likely say)have faith and you will most likely get your answer in "the end". Thats just what i think a christian would say about that... Its not nessicarely my veiw on the subject though. i dont think there is because what kind of god would let its "children" die and kill people for no reason? My opinion, please dont start bashing me!
Yes, I know, hehehe. I'm just posting what I think anyways, that okay? >.>
Just post your thoughts already... that or just try to answer some of the questions and not be so hostile about everything...
The difference is we're not trying to convince anyone anything, but simply trying to state our opinions on God. Answer the thread's question, not talk about something else. In the other thread, you simply turned the whole thread into something else. Observe this thread, what does the question ask? Are we answering the question? Yes we are. And what about the other thread? You were not answering the question, mostly because you're not an atheist yourself. Simple as that. Oh and this is an open forum, anyone can reply, so long they're not being pushy or rude or violating any rules.
oh no...kingray is also here.
aethists aren't hypocritical, but you are a narcissist.
As a Christian, I wouldnt just say wait until the end because while Im living there is also personal evidence and answers to my questions.God isnt going to come down and stop people from killing each other because first,its humanity's fault.Second,God isnt a forceful God,and gives us free will in what we do.When i looked at this thread i didnt see a clear question,but If the question is if i believe in god?yes.
Btw,could you answer my pm faffy?you answer to these threads but never to my pm's...
merged: 07-20-2007 ~ 11:49pm
you never proved how your not hypocrical as well.is it because you know its true?
I believe in the existance of God. I'm also a scientist. I believe how I want to believe... others do the same. Is this thread looking for "proof" of God's existance?
I think that there is a balance of power between good and evil. I also think that God has always been... though, I don't know how or why. Its just a belief. I don't always want physical proof for everything I believe, but I do like to see some evidence once in awhile.
How can this thread have a point if you're asking christians if there is a God?
Yes, I now see your view, and am starting to agree. Maybe we are all on this earth trying to find out who are we
Yes, and I am Him.
seriously in answer to your query- god is dead.
that was very uncalled for.Dont even bother responding.
Why should I need to prove it to you? You however, seek approval so badly that you're ruining your reputation and the reputation of Christians. Come on, Christians are not mean. They're nice people who don't give such incriminating comments. They are open minded.
Oh yeah. If I need to prove it to you that I'm not hypocritical, why can't atheists demand proof on the existence of God?
Come on, there is no evidence that God exists, but there is also no evidence that God does NOT exists. We atheists are just keeping our possibilities open, without joining any religion.
how about the Crusades or Priests [men of God] whom have molested children?
your viewpoint is more agnostic than atheist.
eh? lol a troll, perhaps?.
it's quite simple- god/devil & heaven/hell do not exist. they are merely a product of people's yearning for comfort and meaning in their lives. something bad happens? blame it on Satan or curse God for not intervening. i find that funny- because it is in our human nature to destroy ourselves. the human race [in general] has continued down it very own downward spiral. greed, power, anarchy, pursuit of wealth, fratricide, genocide, etc. the human race in general are pathetic creatures and sadly quite predictable.
they are only 2 definitives: one is born and one dies. this is the law of nature.
If you don't want DREAM to respond, then why did you even bother posting?
I don't really understand this thread. It would be like me creating a thread with the title "is math fun (mostly for people who believe math is fun)?"
Agnosticism deals with knowledge, while atheism deals with belief in god(s). If you're an atheist, you don't hold the belief that any gods exist (which has nothing to do with denying their existence), while if you're an agnostic it means you lack knowledge, in this context you lack knowledge about the existence of god(s). You can be an agnostic theist, a theist who isn't sure of the existence of one or more gods, or an agnostic atheist, an atheist who isn't sure of the nonexistence of one or more gods. If you're a gnostic (strong) theist or a gnostic (strong) atheist, you believe you are either certain about the existence of one or more gods or you are certain about the nonexistence about one or more gods.
I don't believe that there is an almighty God. But i'm not claiming that there is no possibility of there being one. I don't hold strong views on my own belief because there are a lot of possibilities that cannot be proven.
And there is also a possibility of atheist believing that there is no God for self-comfort also.
My point is, one shouldn't be too critical over things as unsure and unproven as religion, because it is very hard to prove the existence or non-existence, and it's also somewhat of a sensitive issue. Of course, one may find it strange to find something so ambiguous as a sensitive issue, but to religious people, it is a sensitive issue. To extremists, they'll probably kill you for it.
And about Crusaders and priests who do heinous things, I don't think those can even be called people. I don't think Christians are proud of them either. There's always imperfection in all things, you know. If you really feel like incriminating, maybe one should go ask oneself (myself...mostly) "Am I really that good?"
Oh yeah, and I was referring to Kingray as a comparison, not Crusaders. But one can question a lot about other religions you know. Like in thailand, or indonesia or actually, anywhere. There are lots of racial spats which often result in horrible, horrible deaths and crime. It's not religion, it's humans and war. War turns human beings into monsters.
I'd blame the people who did it, not the religion itself. I'm pretty sure that if God exists, he won't go around telling his believers to kill non-believers. There are other people from other religions who do the same/similar things as well, so to say that that Christians are horrible people based on that would be completely unfair. I guess another way to put it would be, just because the people who did it blame their actions on their religion doesn't mean that their God asked them to do it.