Konnichiwa
I have been reading the news lately and have realized that the authority is
clamming down on piracy and illegal downloads, and in more recent light,
especially on anime. So I was wondering, what are the views of the people in MT
on this.
Are Fansubs illegal and not to be supported?
Is watching Anime off the internet such as YouTube, Crunchyroll etc. wrong?
Are the production companies of our beloved anime really on the loosing end of
the deal?
Just like to hear the views of fellow people of MT on this!
Personally, I think that watching streams online are alright (correct me if I'm
wrong) but as long as the series or movies are liscensed then perhaps we should
be more considerate to the Production Studio and support them. And personally I
do not think the companies are loosing that much through the loss of control
over their animes, cause they recuperate their loss through all the cute and
adorable merchandise they have! But over here, honestly speaking, some DVDs are
really over-priced and the contents and subs are horrible. Perhaps you may have
a differing view!
I actually have to agree with you. In fact, there was a very good article in the
Straits Times yesterday about fandubbing and the advantages of having it spread
through the net. I think it was partly because Japanese animation studios are
not as renowned as many other media studios around the world. Also, this fan
dubbing and internet streaming is one way to promote the animation which has not
been released in a specific country.
It's also been noted that some fansubs are removed from the internet once a
better quality version of the animation comes to the country of origin
(Occasionally). But then again, with all this crackdown going on, they might as
well crackdown on people recording shows off the television set with their DVD
recorders and headtops.
Not to mention that some people just want to watch anime on the big screen TV at
home. I mean, who wants to watch anime, especially the epic movies on a 320x240
pixel screen?
I have to agree with Chryos,it's the same as downloading illegal music.The
singers and bands aren't losing that much of money at all plus,there are people
who still buy the music,while they also have downloaded it.The same goes for
anime.If it really was wrong then they should shut down sites like YouTube,Veoh
and all.But I don't even think that that is going to work,since they come back
fast enough.I don't think fansubs are illegal.If the original subs of the dvd
are such bad quality,then you have all right to watch one that's better to
watch,right?And now I've found another site with lots of series you can
watch...(not all of them work but they have almost everything...)I'll give the
link,in case some people are interested
--->http://tv-links.co.uk/listings/3
But some needs the DivX plug-in,so be sure to get that too.
I also agree that we should support the studios who subs the licensed anime in
some kind of way,doesn't matter what way,just a way to show our appreciation.
I also think that sending it off on the internet first is good to see how
popular the anime could get.I personally,if I had an anime,I would keep it
unlicensed as much as possible so it's free to watch for everyone.Yeah...But
that's me,I don't really care that much for the money at all,I just want people
enjoy my anime.Lol,I first need to create an anime someday to let this
happen.X3
Hahhaha I just felt that the company that is handling the issue, is quite
insensitive. Even for illegal downloads of movies and music, the government
would allow a letter of warning. But Odex, immediately imposes a fine on the
users, and I think that may be a little over board.
But that's just my take.
I'm under the impression that many people think anime is a "right"
they have -- that if companies aren't giving them their anime on their own
terms, other means of obtaining what they want is all a-ok.
Does the term "luxury (items)" mean anything to you people? If a
company in your country release a show you like, but you disagree with their
pricing, you still have several options: Wait for the prices to go down, wait
for a box set (if it's a series), notify the company in question that you think
their prices are too large and/or NOT buy the series.... hell, some of you even
have the option of waiting for it to turn up on TV. None of these reasons, or
any other reasons you can come up with, in any way justifies fansubs as a
replacement for DVDs or TV recordings.
Furthermore, justifying this by saying that "other people are downloading
music illegally" is hogwash. So... because someone else commits a crime,
you're free to commit a lesser crime and expect to get away with it if you're
called on it? Um... no, it's still illegal. It's the act itself that's
questionable, not what you get out of it.
I'm not entirely sure how the law works with recorded material from TV, but I'm
guessing you DO have the right to... say, record a show transmitted on TV,
simply because you or your parents are paying the TV company that's paying the
anime companies for the RIGHTS TO SEND THE SHOW over the airwaves. In other
words, anime companies still get money for the anime you get to see. Or do you
honestly believe you get TV for free?
You may try to angle it any way you like to lessen your own conscience, but the
fact remains that fansub downloads always, ALWAYS hinges on whether anime
companies will allow it. Sure, fansubs might have helped some shows get official
licensed in various countries, and I'm sure that's part of the reason why it's
not as viciously guarded as MP3/music downloads. It would be a completely
different matter if licenses were picked up, but people STILL kept to the
fansubs they download for free.
Now, I'm not saying I'm against fansubs, but I AM saying that none of your
arguments are not going to hold up in court in the rare case that you should be
tried for it. Make no mistake about it; the fact that you still can get a hold
of fansubs fairly easily with little fear of legal retribution hinges solely on
how financially supportive you are of the industry in your respective
countries.
Seriously, haven't this argument been beaten to death already? We should have
figured this out by now.
Here's something to keep in mind: people who create anime have put in loads of
money (not to mention effort and time) to create it, and by using fansubs alone,
you are giving them nothing.
I agree with you that it is somewhat okay to watch stuff that is unlicensed, and
I support that you should support the titles that are licensed.
Etcetera merchandise is a good point there, it's pretty hard to torrent a
plushie, isn't it?
About the DVDs though. Think about it like this: In Japan, their DVDs have 2 or
3 episodes for around $60. In the US, anime DVDs have 4 or 5 episodes for $30. I
think that people should think twice before complaining about price.
Fansubs are definitely illegal regardless of whether the series is licensed or
not; I have always known this to be true, but I won't deny that I download all
kinds of anime, whether it is licensed or not.
As for DVD prices, it is correct that anime DVDs are more expensive than Western
movie DVDs, for example. However (to say nothing of the Japanese DVD prices) we
shouldn't complain because there are plenty of places that sell anime DVDs
(which usually have an MSRP of $30) for $20 or under, such as Best Buy or DVD
Pacific.
Therefore, I justify all my illegal downloading by buying the stuff that I
really like. My logic is this: If I download something and watch it only once,
that is essentially the same as watching it on TV or borrowing it from the
library, which are free. But if it is something that I really like and will
watch multiple times, like Evangelion or Haruhi, then I will eventually buy the
DVDs and support the people that make those great series.
Here's the breakdown on the crisis terrorizing anime fans over here.I do agree,
it is piracy. As does any other commercialized data that is not copyright
flowing around the internet itself.( Whatever you do, don't get caught rule of
thumb comes into play.)
It was never about pricing in my country. It is all about quality
service.
Regardless of it, the Article that has be published over in Singapore itself was
but a one-sided story. We locals DO support anime. It was the quality of the
subs the sole company is providing. When I say we support, I meant, we import,
buy the DVDs abroad and heck, even the company's products but that was a one
time thing. Nevertheless, I agree on the point it IS piracy. But hey, we support
our love for anime through payment of their DVDs. It does not mean we are not
crediting the creators or production studios at all ! And having said, import,
its is more expensive yet better quality than what the locals here are been
offered.I must say, I had the same mentality as BobaFett above. With the one
exception that , in my country, the sole distributor ain't doing a quality job
on providing us fans for the stuff we buy from them.The fans over here are
extremely disappointed.They failed in their business model with the requirements
of what local customers need.We got what we wanted over both legal and illegal
means. And the distributor made a big fuss about it and initialed the crackdown
on their own. It's too much to demand when they took the law in their own hands
and the product is not made by them.Honestly, I support creativity and
originality because I am by myself a freelance writer.
One Rule to pawn them all. And in the Darkness, Bind them. [All your money
belongs to us.] We got exposed hands down. It will be over in SG soon and its a
loosing battle but do anyone seriously think, this will stop here ? God, no.
Every single commercial company out there will soon follow suit once they got a
whiff of the news. And it can only mean one thing. The internet is good as it
gets for surfing and not sharing legal data anymore. Why legal ? Cause when all
products are vectorized as illegal, the legal stuff becomes otherwise. The
internet ain't free for surfing anymore. It becomes a package rather than an
information highway.It's ironic.
Now, I am not saying fansubs shld be made legal and we are not totally at fault
but hey, everyone who depends on the net are already pirates one way or another.
I'm not saying it's monkey see, monkey do. two wrongs don't make a right. It's
only a matter of time when and how we are judged by the actions we take now and
be marked later on. Does anyone here dare make an understatement that you are
not ?
Hmmm... I do agree with Northy, and recognize that any form of downloading Anime
off the internet is illegal. Neither am I saying that it is our right to have
the production studios feed us for our thirst for anime. But what I do find
displeasing is the way the local company, Odex handles the matter, as like
SevenSkies has mentioned, the sole local distributor, in this case Odex, might
not have done a very good job at providing products that justify their price,
and may have even passed off subs that are not of their original works as their
own in some animes. In such cases the local Fans of Anime resort to watching
anime downloaded off the internet or even streamings from various sources.
Now what I am unhappy about is that since, Odex is the sole distributor, it
seems as if it has become a monopoly, and with any monopoly comes the ability to
set high prices, and with the perhaps not so good quality animes, the locals
have to turn to altenate sources. So when they do, Odex just slaps a fine on
these people, isn't that a bit too much? And the fines are heavy and definitely
make it's point that downloading copyright stuff is ILLEGAL, but would it not
have been better to let users off with a initial warning letter? I am saying
that Odex has not handled the situation that well, whether it is poor business
model or management, or even publicity.
I understand the burning passion and support of true blue Anime Fans, who
purchase 100% legal Animes, instead off grabbing episodes after episodes off the
internet. But not all are that well provided for, and seek the simple pleasure
and entertainment that anime bring, from the internet . And with that it brings
to the point of the internet (which I believe most of us pay for). Some of us
may resort to downloading, which, true enough is illegal, and others seek
streaming. So should streaming of animes be stopped too? If they do remove all
animes from these sites that stream animes, I am sure the interest in anime is
sure to decline, publicity may even be lost, losses incurred and studios close
down.
So why hasn't all the animes been removed from these sites? Why aren't
production studios suing the internet sites that stream their animes yet?
Instead Odex steps in to issue the fines. And issue the fines they do, but the
money received is to the firm, shouldn't the burning passion of the support of
anime, direct the fines collected back to production studios? Perhaps to a
improve anime quality fund or reduce the price of anime fund? Just a thought.
I guess some production studio, still do find that, not keep tracking of old
scores is a better way of gaining publicity for its anime.
When it comes to licensed shows, I guess US imports are the best choices if it's
a possibility. I know little about import laws in other countries, but buying
something on import shouldn't be illegal in most countries. And maybe turning to
US imports would send a clear message to Odex that if they expect to have a
customer base, improving their releases might be considered a good idea. The
kneejerk scare tactics idea is, at least, a very bad idea. Mostly because I have
a sneaky suspicion that the girl in question wasn't fined because they wanted to
punish her for her downloads (well, not entirely anyway), but it was probably
mostly done because they wanted to send a warning to the Singaporean citizens
about what would happen if you're caught downloading. I sincerely hope that
tactic backfires, and in a best case scenario, will bring other players to the
license-and-release market, many who will offer far better deals than Odex.
According to the article, Anime downloading: An alternative perspective. The Straits Times (August 16 2007) p 26. by
Andy Ho, Senior Writer, downloading fansubtitled anime may not necessarily be
illegal.
"Under Singapore's law, copying is permitted for educational and news
reporting purposes (as well as other specified ones). But only an unimaginative
reading of the law would conclude anime downloading is clearly illegal.
A 2004 amendment to the copyright law here introduced a new, open-ended
exception to make it possible for copying - in whole or part - to be construed
as fair use depending on five factors.
First, is the work copied creative in nature or not (like a phone directory)?
Secondly, how much is copied? Thirdly, is the copying for profit?
Clearly, anime is creative work and fans copy the whole work, but they don't do
it for profit. Even Article 38 of Japan's own copyright law allows parties to
"distribute by wire a work already broadcast for non-profit
purposes".
Fourthly, can the work be obtained within a reasonable time at an ordinary
commercial price? The most popular anime titles take about six to eight months
to be released here on VCDs or DVDs but they are now competitively priced when
they do appear here.
The fifth and final consideration is the effect of copying upon the work's
potential market here. That is, the anime firm must show that future harm is
very likely, not that actual harm has occurred. Local fans say they go online to
buy anime DVDs from foreign distributors. US experience suggests that this is
not all empty talk."
Andy Ho, 2007. Anime downloading: An alternative perspective. The Straits Times (August 16 2007) p
26.
illegal downloaders would face financial claims of up to $5,000.
and recently, Odex had successfully obtained a court order to get Starhub to
disclose the names of up to 1,000 illegal anime downloaders.
$5,000 x 1,000 = $5,000,000 of financial claims
I'd think that hammering illegal downloaders isn't really going to help the
artists. since the illegal downloaders are pictured by Odex as people who don't
buy VCDs and DVDs because they could download them. However, I'd feel that those
who don't buy VCDs and DVDs because they could download them probably wouldn't
ever buy VCDs and DVDs in the first place, they probably find something else to
entertain themselves with, if they couldn't download. I also did like to note
that it seems to me that many of those who buy DVDs (both imports and Odex) are
downloaders themselves, many which are buying the titles that they had already
downloaded. So, hammering downloaders may actually harm the artists rather that
helping them.
well, I'd rather buy Odex DVDs, if they have the titles that I'm looking for,
that is. Why would I buy Odex DVDs? because 1 DVD box has about 12 episodes and
its priced at about 40sgd.
I really hope Odex would stop hammering downloaders, since,
the more Odex concentrates its resources on hammering downloaders,
the lesser the chances Odex would license the titles I want,
which means more likely I have to depend on imports.
importing DVDs cost more than getting it locally,
having to pay more means having to get lesser titles,
which means supporting lesser artists.
Morally or legally? Clearly it's illegal to download copyright material.
Animes/programs that will never be available officially in your country? Nothing
wrong morally with that. I still download One Piece fansub though, because the
official dubbed one is just downright atrocious and completely ruins the show. I
know there's a new one coming, that will be better, but there's no way I could
start watching it non-japanese now, not over 300-episodes in...
"In the US, companies that have taken legal action against downloaders have
typically been awarded hundreds or thousands of dollars in statutory damages for
each infringing work downloaded, in addition to recovery of their legal costs
and expenses from these downloaders."
I have not heard of companies going after anime downloaders that forcefully in
the US. The article may be referring to cases involving music or movie
downloading.
Hey! But is it safe to watch streamings over YouTube and other sources? No one
seem to have answered that part of my question yet! Hahhaha
It seems that it is safe to watch streamings over sites like YouTube, since
streaming isn't exactly the same as downloading, further more, the tracking
company harvests IP address that are visible to torrent trackers, in other
words, it seems that only people who downloaded anime through torrents get
caught.
First of all, fansubs are actually illegal and considered as a form of
piracy.
However, I do understand that some of us rely on fansub to get the latest supply
of anime. In Malaysia, it is very difficult to anime. Even though you buy it
from the shop most of them are actually a rip off from the fansubs therefore its
the same, might as well download from the net.
And 1 other point to state is that the Malaysian currency is so bad that it
makes it rather impossible for an average family to have an anime fan buying
original stuff from Japan or USA. Therefore ,most Malaysian download fansubbed
animes, me as well
Konnichiwa
I have been reading the news lately and have realized that the authority is clamming down on piracy and illegal downloads, and in more recent light, especially on anime. So I was wondering, what are the views of the people in MT on this.
Are Fansubs illegal and not to be supported?
Is watching Anime off the internet such as YouTube, Crunchyroll etc. wrong?
Are the production companies of our beloved anime really on the loosing end of the deal?
Just like to hear the views of fellow people of MT on this!
Personally, I think that watching streams online are alright (correct me if I'm wrong) but as long as the series or movies are liscensed then perhaps we should be more considerate to the Production Studio and support them. And personally I do not think the companies are loosing that much through the loss of control over their animes, cause they recuperate their loss through all the cute and adorable merchandise they have! But over here, honestly speaking, some DVDs are really over-priced and the contents and subs are horrible. Perhaps you may have a differing view!
I actually have to agree with you. In fact, there was a very good article in the Straits Times yesterday about fandubbing and the advantages of having it spread through the net. I think it was partly because Japanese animation studios are not as renowned as many other media studios around the world. Also, this fan dubbing and internet streaming is one way to promote the animation which has not been released in a specific country.
It's also been noted that some fansubs are removed from the internet once a better quality version of the animation comes to the country of origin (Occasionally). But then again, with all this crackdown going on, they might as well crackdown on people recording shows off the television set with their DVD recorders and headtops.
Not to mention that some people just want to watch anime on the big screen TV at home. I mean, who wants to watch anime, especially the epic movies on a 320x240 pixel screen?
I have to agree with Chryos,it's the same as downloading illegal music.The singers and bands aren't losing that much of money at all plus,there are people who still buy the music,while they also have downloaded it.The same goes for anime.If it really was wrong then they should shut down sites like YouTube,Veoh and all.But I don't even think that that is going to work,since they come back fast enough.I don't think fansubs are illegal.If the original subs of the dvd are such bad quality,then you have all right to watch one that's better to watch,right?And now I've found another site with lots of series you can watch...(not all of them work but they have almost everything...)I'll give the link,in case some people are interested --->http://tv-links.co.uk/listings/3
But some needs the DivX plug-in,so be sure to get that too.
I also agree that we should support the studios who subs the licensed anime in some kind of way,doesn't matter what way,just a way to show our appreciation.
I also think that sending it off on the internet first is good to see how popular the anime could get.I personally,if I had an anime,I would keep it unlicensed as much as possible so it's free to watch for everyone.Yeah...But that's me,I don't really care that much for the money at all,I just want people enjoy my anime.Lol,I first need to create an anime someday to let this happen.X3
Hahhaha I just felt that the company that is handling the issue, is quite insensitive. Even for illegal downloads of movies and music, the government would allow a letter of warning. But Odex, immediately imposes a fine on the users, and I think that may be a little over board.
But that's just my take.
i just posted comment on another thread
9-year-old downloads Japanese anime illegally
I'm under the impression that many people think anime is a "right" they have -- that if companies aren't giving them their anime on their own terms, other means of obtaining what they want is all a-ok.
Does the term "luxury (items)" mean anything to you people? If a company in your country release a show you like, but you disagree with their pricing, you still have several options: Wait for the prices to go down, wait for a box set (if it's a series), notify the company in question that you think their prices are too large and/or NOT buy the series.... hell, some of you even have the option of waiting for it to turn up on TV. None of these reasons, or any other reasons you can come up with, in any way justifies fansubs as a replacement for DVDs or TV recordings.
Furthermore, justifying this by saying that "other people are downloading music illegally" is hogwash. So... because someone else commits a crime, you're free to commit a lesser crime and expect to get away with it if you're called on it? Um... no, it's still illegal. It's the act itself that's questionable, not what you get out of it.
I'm not entirely sure how the law works with recorded material from TV, but I'm guessing you DO have the right to... say, record a show transmitted on TV, simply because you or your parents are paying the TV company that's paying the anime companies for the RIGHTS TO SEND THE SHOW over the airwaves. In other words, anime companies still get money for the anime you get to see. Or do you honestly believe you get TV for free?
You may try to angle it any way you like to lessen your own conscience, but the fact remains that fansub downloads always, ALWAYS hinges on whether anime companies will allow it. Sure, fansubs might have helped some shows get official licensed in various countries, and I'm sure that's part of the reason why it's not as viciously guarded as MP3/music downloads. It would be a completely different matter if licenses were picked up, but people STILL kept to the fansubs they download for free.
Now, I'm not saying I'm against fansubs, but I AM saying that none of your arguments are not going to hold up in court in the rare case that you should be tried for it. Make no mistake about it; the fact that you still can get a hold of fansubs fairly easily with little fear of legal retribution hinges solely on how financially supportive you are of the industry in your respective countries.
Seriously, haven't this argument been beaten to death already? We should have figured this out by now.
Make no mistake Northy but are you sharing that the locals are at fault for it if that's the way they support their love for anime through fansubs ?
Yes.
Here's something to keep in mind: people who create anime have put in loads of money (not to mention effort and time) to create it, and by using fansubs alone, you are giving them nothing.
I agree with you that it is somewhat okay to watch stuff that is unlicensed, and I support that you should support the titles that are licensed.
Etcetera merchandise is a good point there, it's pretty hard to torrent a plushie, isn't it?
About the DVDs though. Think about it like this: In Japan, their DVDs have 2 or 3 episodes for around $60. In the US, anime DVDs have 4 or 5 episodes for $30. I think that people should think twice before complaining about price.
Fansubs are definitely illegal regardless of whether the series is licensed or not; I have always known this to be true, but I won't deny that I download all kinds of anime, whether it is licensed or not.
As for DVD prices, it is correct that anime DVDs are more expensive than Western movie DVDs, for example. However (to say nothing of the Japanese DVD prices) we shouldn't complain because there are plenty of places that sell anime DVDs (which usually have an MSRP of $30) for $20 or under, such as Best Buy or DVD Pacific.
Therefore, I justify all my illegal downloading by buying the stuff that I really like. My logic is this: If I download something and watch it only once, that is essentially the same as watching it on TV or borrowing it from the library, which are free. But if it is something that I really like and will watch multiple times, like Evangelion or Haruhi, then I will eventually buy the DVDs and support the people that make those great series.
Here's the breakdown on the crisis terrorizing anime fans over here.I do agree, it is piracy. As does any other commercialized data that is not copyright flowing around the internet itself.( Whatever you do, don't get caught rule of thumb comes into play.)
It was never about pricing in my country. It is all about quality service.
Regardless of it, the Article that has be published over in Singapore itself was but a one-sided story. We locals DO support anime. It was the quality of the subs the sole company is providing. When I say we support, I meant, we import, buy the DVDs abroad and heck, even the company's products but that was a one time thing. Nevertheless, I agree on the point it IS piracy. But hey, we support our love for anime through payment of their DVDs. It does not mean we are not crediting the creators or production studios at all ! And having said, import, its is more expensive yet better quality than what the locals here are been offered.I must say, I had the same mentality as BobaFett above. With the one exception that , in my country, the sole distributor ain't doing a quality job on providing us fans for the stuff we buy from them.The fans over here are extremely disappointed.They failed in their business model with the requirements of what local customers need.We got what we wanted over both legal and illegal means. And the distributor made a big fuss about it and initialed the crackdown on their own. It's too much to demand when they took the law in their own hands and the product is not made by them.Honestly, I support creativity and originality because I am by myself a freelance writer.
One Rule to pawn them all. And in the Darkness, Bind them. [All your money belongs to us.] We got exposed hands down. It will be over in SG soon and its a loosing battle but do anyone seriously think, this will stop here ? God, no. Every single commercial company out there will soon follow suit once they got a whiff of the news. And it can only mean one thing. The internet is good as it gets for surfing and not sharing legal data anymore. Why legal ? Cause when all products are vectorized as illegal, the legal stuff becomes otherwise. The internet ain't free for surfing anymore. It becomes a package rather than an information highway.It's ironic.
Now, I am not saying fansubs shld be made legal and we are not totally at fault but hey, everyone who depends on the net are already pirates one way or another. I'm not saying it's monkey see, monkey do. two wrongs don't make a right. It's only a matter of time when and how we are judged by the actions we take now and be marked later on. Does anyone here dare make an understatement that you are not ?
Hmmm... I do agree with Northy, and recognize that any form of downloading Anime off the internet is illegal. Neither am I saying that it is our right to have the production studios feed us for our thirst for anime. But what I do find displeasing is the way the local company, Odex handles the matter, as like SevenSkies has mentioned, the sole local distributor, in this case Odex, might not have done a very good job at providing products that justify their price, and may have even passed off subs that are not of their original works as their own in some animes. In such cases the local Fans of Anime resort to watching anime downloaded off the internet or even streamings from various sources.
Now what I am unhappy about is that since, Odex is the sole distributor, it seems as if it has become a monopoly, and with any monopoly comes the ability to set high prices, and with the perhaps not so good quality animes, the locals have to turn to altenate sources. So when they do, Odex just slaps a fine on these people, isn't that a bit too much? And the fines are heavy and definitely make it's point that downloading copyright stuff is ILLEGAL, but would it not have been better to let users off with a initial warning letter? I am saying that Odex has not handled the situation that well, whether it is poor business model or management, or even publicity.
I understand the burning passion and support of true blue Anime Fans, who purchase 100% legal Animes, instead off grabbing episodes after episodes off the internet. But not all are that well provided for, and seek the simple pleasure and entertainment that anime bring, from the internet . And with that it brings to the point of the internet (which I believe most of us pay for). Some of us may resort to downloading, which, true enough is illegal, and others seek streaming. So should streaming of animes be stopped too? If they do remove all animes from these sites that stream animes, I am sure the interest in anime is sure to decline, publicity may even be lost, losses incurred and studios close down.
So why hasn't all the animes been removed from these sites? Why aren't production studios suing the internet sites that stream their animes yet? Instead Odex steps in to issue the fines. And issue the fines they do, but the money received is to the firm, shouldn't the burning passion of the support of anime, direct the fines collected back to production studios? Perhaps to a improve anime quality fund or reduce the price of anime fund? Just a thought.
I guess some production studio, still do find that, not keep tracking of old scores is a better way of gaining publicity for its anime.
That's just my thought.
When it comes to licensed shows, I guess US imports are the best choices if it's a possibility. I know little about import laws in other countries, but buying something on import shouldn't be illegal in most countries. And maybe turning to US imports would send a clear message to Odex that if they expect to have a customer base, improving their releases might be considered a good idea. The kneejerk scare tactics idea is, at least, a very bad idea. Mostly because I have a sneaky suspicion that the girl in question wasn't fined because they wanted to punish her for her downloads (well, not entirely anyway), but it was probably mostly done because they wanted to send a warning to the Singaporean citizens about what would happen if you're caught downloading. I sincerely hope that tactic backfires, and in a best case scenario, will bring other players to the license-and-release market, many who will offer far better deals than Odex.
According to the article, Anime downloading: An alternative perspective. The Straits Times (August 16 2007) p 26. by Andy Ho, Senior Writer, downloading fansubtitled anime may not necessarily be illegal.
"Under Singapore's law, copying is permitted for educational and news reporting purposes (as well as other specified ones). But only an unimaginative reading of the law would conclude anime downloading is clearly illegal.
A 2004 amendment to the copyright law here introduced a new, open-ended exception to make it possible for copying - in whole or part - to be construed as fair use depending on five factors.
First, is the work copied creative in nature or not (like a phone directory)? Secondly, how much is copied? Thirdly, is the copying for profit?
Clearly, anime is creative work and fans copy the whole work, but they don't do it for profit. Even Article 38 of Japan's own copyright law allows parties to "distribute by wire a work already broadcast for non-profit purposes".
Fourthly, can the work be obtained within a reasonable time at an ordinary commercial price? The most popular anime titles take about six to eight months to be released here on VCDs or DVDs but they are now competitively priced when they do appear here.
The fifth and final consideration is the effect of copying upon the work's potential market here. That is, the anime firm must show that future harm is very likely, not that actual harm has occurred. Local fans say they go online to buy anime DVDs from foreign distributors. US experience suggests that this is not all empty talk."
Andy Ho, 2007. Anime downloading: An alternative perspective. The Straits Times (August 16 2007) p 26.
illegal downloaders would face financial claims of up to $5,000.
and recently, Odex had successfully obtained a court order to get Starhub to disclose the names of up to 1,000 illegal anime downloaders.
$5,000 x 1,000 = $5,000,000 of financial claims
I'd think that hammering illegal downloaders isn't really going to help the artists. since the illegal downloaders are pictured by Odex as people who don't buy VCDs and DVDs because they could download them. However, I'd feel that those who don't buy VCDs and DVDs because they could download them probably wouldn't ever buy VCDs and DVDs in the first place, they probably find something else to entertain themselves with, if they couldn't download. I also did like to note that it seems to me that many of those who buy DVDs (both imports and Odex) are downloaders themselves, many which are buying the titles that they had already downloaded. So, hammering downloaders may actually harm the artists rather that helping them.
well, I'd rather buy Odex DVDs, if they have the titles that I'm looking for, that is. Why would I buy Odex DVDs? because 1 DVD box has about 12 episodes and its priced at about 40sgd.
I really hope Odex would stop hammering downloaders, since,
the more Odex concentrates its resources on hammering downloaders,
the lesser the chances Odex would license the titles I want,
which means more likely I have to depend on imports.
importing DVDs cost more than getting it locally,
having to pay more means having to get lesser titles,
which means supporting lesser artists.
Morally or legally? Clearly it's illegal to download copyright material. Animes/programs that will never be available officially in your country? Nothing wrong morally with that. I still download One Piece fansub though, because the official dubbed one is just downright atrocious and completely ruins the show. I know there's a new one coming, that will be better, but there's no way I could start watching it non-japanese now, not over 300-episodes in...
Here's ODEX and the AVPAS side of the story http://www.avpas.com.sg/
and the article claimed that
"In the US, companies that have taken legal action against downloaders have typically been awarded hundreds or thousands of dollars in statutory damages for each infringing work downloaded, in addition to recovery of their legal costs and expenses from these downloaders."
So, such things are also happening in the US?
I have not heard of companies going after anime downloaders that forcefully in the US. The article may be referring to cases involving music or movie downloading.
I don't believe it's happening in the US, or I woulda been gone long ago lol. I don't think i've bought a single dvd of anime in my life.
To keep you guys posted, another discussion is available for your comments in MT
(loaded with facts and articles)
9-year-old-downloads-japanese-anime-illegally
And to BobaFett2ha, the penalties imposed are specifically for downloading Anime.
So a friendly warning to fellow Anime lovers in Singapore, heads up when you decide to download Anime off the internet next time.
Hey! But is it safe to watch streamings over YouTube and other sources? No one seem to have answered that part of my question yet! Hahhaha
It seems that it is safe to watch streamings over sites like YouTube, since streaming isn't exactly the same as downloading, further more, the tracking company harvests IP address that are visible to torrent trackers, in other words, it seems that only people who downloaded anime through torrents get caught.
referenced from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odex%27s_actions_against_file_sharing
merged: 08-24-2007 ~ 10:37pm
oh, and, in Singapore, importing anime may not be a very good idea either http://shadyone.wordpress.com/2007/01/27/mda/
First of all, fansubs are actually illegal and considered as a form of piracy.
However, I do understand that some of us rely on fansub to get the latest supply of anime. In Malaysia, it is very difficult to anime. Even though you buy it from the shop most of them are actually a rip off from the fansubs therefore its the same, might as well download from the net.
And 1 other point to state is that the Malaysian currency is so bad that it makes it rather impossible for an average family to have an anime fan buying original stuff from Japan or USA. Therefore ,most Malaysian download fansubbed animes, me as well