Which is more important, Science or religion?
Religion & Science
Which is more important?
Which is more important, Science or religion?
Which is more important?
- Science
- 150 votes
- Religion
- 51 votes
Only members can vote.
Only members can post replies, please register.
Suffering yourself because you want it is one thing, wanting others to suffer for you is another. I don't think you understand that. And as for parents being happy if you did something for them, isn't that a positive thing? They're HAPPY that you did something for them, they're not thinking that 'Wow my son/daughter suffered so much for me and it's nice to see them suffer!'. That's just twisted, and if you think that's right...well...up to you...
Sorry, reference to the Bible it is then. And I don't think I need to pm you since I can just read it in these threads myself, and as far as I've read...you're not really giving proof, it's more like examples of science. It doesn't necessarily prove anything, although you might not realize that. But you know what, I don't really mind nor care. Think whatever you want, and let me think whatever I want.
All I'm saying is that you can observe evolution, you obviously won't see something evolved in your face. Also, you need to look at the genetic code while it just started, which is why we need more technology to do so.
You weren't stating scientifically, all you've been doing is stating history, history does not mean science. Science for history can only go to how old something is, that is all.
Lol, indeed we can, but since we haven't actually seen it happen, it still ends up being sort of a theory...well you get the idea. We can only observe for now, and to truly understand it and actually give some actual prove would take years. And you know what, we might actually discover whether God exists or not in a few years time.
And yeah, I agree with you that history does not equal science.
History of science does not equal science either.
I suggest you either take a biology class or you read a bit on evolution.
Several misconceptions you've made are addressed here: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-misconceptions.html
Now no more about evolution unless it's relevant please.
actually,i've stated much more than just history darkrose,wise up.
merged: 09-16-2007 ~ 08:12am
oh come on....anyone can make a site like this....for god's sake,if a true transitional fossil was found,it would have been heard world wide.this site is just taking small steps away from actual information and making it into what they want to hear...and it also states that God believers don't mention evolution which is a very big lie.
Parts of evolution are falling apart,scientists are moving away from this theory,many contradicting claims have been made and some even proven.You act as if evolution is right,and thats that.wrong.
i encourage people to ignore most of the information sent by this crazy site.Can we even be sure that the author of this page is of any scientific relevance?probably not.
try this:Evolution cant support itself...mutations gone bad..
I know you're a bit slow, but let's try this again:
If you can tell me how it's relevant to this, feel free to. Otherwise, please PM me (or someone else if you wish) if you want to talk about evolution. I'm a sophomore in high school and I've only had about two weeks of my biology AE (accelerated/enriched) course thus far, but I've read enough that I'll probably be able to explain at least some of what you don't understand.
Then god is dictator...
Who do you think this god acts like? Bush right now...dictators of the old time...
And that does it...it proves that god is not good...it's total order...(Think Dungeons & Dragons alignment system and you will get it...)
I find it very trying that this must be clarified every time a new page forms in this thread.
Evolution is a proven fact. It is the change in allele frequency in a given population over time and successive generations. It has been observed by countless thousands of scientists and biology students worldwide. Anyone who disagrees is probably either ignorant (which is fine, since not everyone is educated in biology), or quite stupid. Ever heard of bacteria becoming immune to certain antibiotics, or cockroaches becoming immune to certain pesticides? That is evolution in the works. Please make sure you know AND UNDERSTAND the definition of evolution before u post in future. It would also help if u have grounding in at least O' Level Biology or equivalent. Preferably that taught in a non-American or non-Muslim school.
The word 'theory', when used in the context 'evolutionary theory', is different in definition from 'theory' when used in a layman's context. U equate theories to guesses. Scientific theories are not guesses. They are comprehensive, substantiated explanations of phenomena and occurences. They are tried and tested. Thus evolutionary THEORY is the EXPLANATION of the FACT of evolution.
The wait-and-see approach is not advised. The type of proof individuals like yourself expect, namely signs of macroscopic evolution, tends to take anywhere from millenia to millions of years to become evident.
Don't be daft. I could say the same for the site u yourself posted. Onus is on the reader to decide if the site's arguments are rational, and to cross-reference to verify them.
It would not. Because the average newspaper or news network would be painfully aware that most people are either uninterested in or unaware of transitional fossils. Especially if said fossil does not pertain to human evolution. That said, there are numerous transitional fossils in existence, such as the archaeoptaryx (reptile-to-bird) and a bevy of fossils showing the gradual evolution of horses.
Whereas the author of your site, whose homepage is that of a CHRISTIAN MINISTRY, is so obviously a scientific professional?
I believe I stated somewhere in an earlier post that I don't know that for sure since I'm no expert in evolution, and furthermore, I never said that I did not believe in evolution or something to that account. And for all that you care...I have no interest in biology so yeah, all I know are just really basic stuff. Seriously, there's absolutely no need to get all defensive and nasty.
And as for the response to kingray's post, I'll have to agree with you.
Too true. The harsh wording was unwarranted. Sorry for having offended you.
Well it's all right, I'm not offended or anything, just thought that I'd clarify myself.
Edit: Btw, I've read the link you gave alexjohn, and I'll admit that although I don't fully understand everything (bleh, I suck at science
), I
definitely understand more about evolution now, so umh, excuse my earlier posts
It's no problem, as Espada said. I myself don't know much about evolution other than the little I've read. Can we get back on topic though?
merged: 09-17-2007 ~ 12:50am
I thought I'd also note this: "Talk.Origins archive (www.talkorigins.org). This wonderfully thorough online resource compiles useful essays and commentaries that have appeared in Usenet discussions about creationism and evolution. It offers detailed discussions (some of which may be too sophisticated for casual readers) and bibliographies relating to virtually any objection to evolution that creationists might raise."
-Scientific American
Not only is it recommended by Scientific American and other well-known scientific entities, it's also written by many excellent scientists.
On the other hand, the site you referenced seems to be some sort of strange personal webpage by some guy who wants to convert poor people to a fundamentalist form of Christianity. Kingray100, you are so hypocritical it still amazes me, even after I've read so many of your posts, which seem to have no thought put into them at all.
'and it's nice to see them suffer!' nah, u didnt understand me too >.
i mean, u dont have enough love for Him if u dont want to accept anything He gives, look, u're still complaining bout wut He does.
God isnt a dictator, onyhow. He only wants us to belieev Him n to serve Him 100%, no less than that. well, all fo u wont accept those proofs we give to u, bcoz u dont want to do obligations He gives to us. n i think u'll believe him if God's come to ur house n u see Him with ur own eyes
well I'm a junior in high school and taking a boring yet important science class myself..does it really make a significant difference?of course not.I just want to correct your mistakes on this thread.Its not nice to leave a lie on a thread,no matter how crazy it is...
merged: 09-17-2007 ~ 03:18am
oh please,the only reason for this comment was to get back at me for nailing your site.you know darn well that the site i provided real information that is not a theory.It can be made for any reason,but it doesnt matter,because it states facts,facts that you cant explain.
Isnt it sad to see theories fall apart?thats life i suppose...
merged: 09-17-2007 ~ 03:20am
God isnt a dictator.If he was,you wont have the choice to think he doesnt even exist....Bush isnt a dictator either....he's just an unpopular president that people dont understand.
sir,do you know what a dictator is?
Kingray, there are many transition fossils, I posted a long list of them a couple months ago, I'm surprised you forgot. If would like the list I'll get it, but it would lengthen my post all the way down the page and I have having to scroll alot with a touchpad. Anyway, I actually doubt that many people would really knwo about this because I dont see many people having a great amount of knowledge about string theory. This theory is supposed to be the theory that connects all four forces of the universe, but it not the sort of thing alot of people would care to hear. Not like in the days when Einstein was alive, everyone wanted to know about whether he was going to come up with this sort of theory. We have already gone over evolution I believe, it you go to earlier posts of this thread.
I dont think you know this but that archaeopterx thing has been exposed and is not a transitional fossil(pm me for details).and just because you love evolution,doesnt make it a fact....realize that evolution IS STILL A THEORY.
and is it me,or are you assuming that someone who works at a christian ministry is not able to be an educated man when it comes to science?the information stated is perfectly accurate and your just mad because you cant find any answers.
and trust me,if evolution was ever proven right in something,it will be on the news...its happened already with such other things like documentaries on how the big bang would happen and new flashes on what fossil diggers find in the dessert.
again,zero transitional fossils are found today....theres always scientists trying to come up with just a tiny bit more excuse to say a fossil is transitional...none exist.(as of now,and probably for the rest of time).
merged: 09-17-2007 ~ 03:31am
no there isnt....those are just fossils scientists think are close to their theory,but they've all been proven wrong,especially the archeopterx thing.pm me for details...
and this string theory is nothing...its as effective as the big bang theory....
So why are you leaving your lies? In my view you're lieing, and so? Seriously, I'm the same age as you, can you at the least do more research into the website you're reading for validity and then post it or not. If its a site that is made for converting people, you know somethings will be altered...
well i never expected for you to agree with me from the beginning...lol.
since we have opposing ideas,there is a high chance that you wont agree with anything i say.
Do note, it says response to your post, not your post...
Fish to Amphibians
Tiktaalik roseae
Osteolepis
Eusthenopteron
Panderichthys
Elginerpeton
Obruchevichthys
Hynerpeton
Tulerpeton
Acanthostega
Ichthyostega
Pederpes finneyae
Eryops
Amphibians to Amniotes (early reptiles)
Proterogyrinus
Limnoscelis
Tseajaia
Solenodonsaurus
Hylonomus
Paleothyris
Synapsid (mammal-like "reptiles") to mammals
Protoclepsydrops
Clepsydrops
Dimetrodon
Procynosuchus
Thrinaxodon
Yanoconodon
Diapsid reptiles to birds
Yixianosaurus
Pedopenna
Archaeopteryx
Changchengornis
Confuciusornis
Ichthyornis
Evolution of whales
Pakicetus
Ambulocetus
Kutchicetus
Artiocetus
Dorudon
Basilosaurus
Eurhinodelphis
Mammalodon
Evolution of the horse
Hyracotherium
Mesohippus
Parahippus
Merychippus
Pliohippus
Equus
Non-human apes to modern humans
Pierolapithecus catalaunicus
Ardipithecus
Australopithecus
Homo rudolfensis
Homo habilis
Homo erectus
There is the list of transition fossils...again. All fossils are only thought to be inclusive in their theories, because you can never prove that their 100% the same animal, even if its got almost all the same charateristic besides the slightly morphed changes. The only way to prove it would be to fined DNA in the fossils, which would have hardened into minerals long ago. Scientists do not simply pick a fossils out of simple guess work, they have people who have worked with fossils all their lives to fined whether it may be from a certain species. By the way, even if evolution werent true, though it seems there is a hell of a lot of proof for it, that the fossils are far older than six thousand years.
well its not really to convert people....since atheists dont listen to this information anyway,its really for strengthening christians and helping them understand whats wrong with theories....but if you were willing to hear information and see which theory makes the best sense,then i guess it could be used to convert people.the things i state arent lies...if its science information you want,its science info you get.
of course,the things i present are never really theories...saying the world was made by god isnt enough for you guys so I have to step up to help you guys out.
merged: 09-17-2007 ~ 08:05am
well again,its easy for me to say i have 100 bad guys in a list and name all the heros of history....what i mean is that these arent proved as transitional.These are examples that "might be" examples....plus,most of these were taken out by contradicting statements,such as the archeaopterx which was taken out only withing the last ten years.
also,who's to say God's day isnt a million days?that must also be understood....God created time so realize a day could mean anything.So your thoughts on how old the fossils are isnt really helping anyone.
merged: 09-17-2007 ~ 08:06am
really?well doesnt matter,its still true.
well you sure like picking out small things,dont you?its ok,people undermine each other in arguments all the time.
I do...
That quote show enough that god is one....not benevolent...but totalitarian...
What do you think happen to people who just disagree with Stalin...even by little bit? Against the idea of the state...blam...dead or the camp...was this different from that quote?
And again, you can never proove anything 100%, but they do have experts who classify them. Sceintific evidence is being changed all the time as well. Now, the scientists probably went with what was most likely after studying the bone structure and such. There are many, many fossils here which have been studied and classified by experts, not amateurs. Well that would be good for you to name all those people as good, but that has absolutely nothing to do with what we're talking about, its not a very good comparative. Not only do you know these people to be bad, but then you name them good, which does not compare to expert scientists with Phd's classifying a set of bones based one structure and other such examples. For one thing, the deffinition of day is when the earth does a full rotation, now even if the earths rotation has been slowed to a crawl which would have been impossible because the plants and animals would have died. When god was creating the universe, a day would have been irrelivant because the earth wouldnt have been created yet. So it would have had to have been 24 hours or gods got some different deffinitions than we do. Maybe heaven and hell are switched arounf, you never know if that is the case. Plus, if the world stopped spinning, or slowed down, one side of the planet would be a desert and the other cold and desolate, not too mention the massive storms caused by the earths core having stopped spinning.
Okay, you were talking about converting us to Christianity. Now you're not? Make up your mind... Plus, you can't give anything scientific proof of the bible and your "god"... Sheesh, you don't get it do you?
Him agreeing to you isn't true...