Which is more important, Science or religion?
Religion & Science
Which is more important?
Which is more important, Science or religion?
Which is more important?
- Science
- 150 votes
- Religion
- 51 votes
Only members can vote.
Only members can post replies, please register.
Kingray, you need to lighten up. And get a dictionary so you can look up the definition of "satire." It'll do you a lot of good.
[Begin more satire. Well mostly satire anyways]
Where did I ever make such an assumption? Read my post again. Don't put words into my mouth.
You also mean to say you're a Protestant Christian. Catholics are also Christians. You know, believing in God and Jesus and all. Catholics are just better, truer Christians because they realize Jesus ordained 1 true Church on Earth and they're the only ones to follow the teachings of that Church.
Mary gave birth to the Son of God! Without having sex! For Christ's sake she's his mom! How is that "just a normal human?" Can YOUR mother give birth to the Son of God, or even give birth at all without having sex? Last time I checked, there was only one woman in the history of humanity who ever gave birth to God's son, and only one woman who could give birth to a baby at all without having had sex first. If every woman could do that, then sure, she's just a human. But Mary's the only one. Don't be blasphemous and say she's not special.
And Catholics don't consider Mary a God. She's a saint.
Clearly, you missed entire point of my post. But I'm not going to argue with you because 1) you're not Catholic and 2) you don't seem to know the definition of satire. Non-Catholics can't gain salvation, so hey, good luck with life buddy. Of course you still have time convert to Catholicism and join Christ's True Church.
Satire unsuppressed.. lol.
[/end satire]
I've noticed something interesting. Kingray100 was not able to understand the purpose of a hypothetical situation that I posted earlier on and now he is unable to understand that something is satire, even when it is explicitly stated as such (which shouldn't even be necessary). That's kind of sad.
Unless Mary is capable of asexual reproduction like a frog, the human body is not capable of reproduction without the contribution of genes from the other sex. Claims of giving birth without having any sex would be mere groundless claims at most as nature's law of birth for humans holds true for all living beings and no one is exempted from it.
That is if you discount human-amphibian humanoid hybrid (i.e. mutants)
I had originally wrote my first Catholicism post without denoting it as satire. This being the internet, however, prudence led me to exercise caution. Clearly, even such efforts is not enough at times.
[Even more satire. I really hope you got your dictionary, Kingray.]
How dare you insinuate that the Virgin Mary is a mutant, you blasphemous infidel! The very fact that Mary did something that no human should be biologically capable of doing is indication that she is special, a woman blessed by Divine Grace upon whom God Almighty shone his Holy Light. Catholics correctly recognize that Mary is no ordinary woman and correctly pay her the homage due to the Holy Mother.
In fact, Kingray's objection to worshiping Mary is entirely contradictory to the Bible. In John 19:26-27, we see the following passage:
26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
The Bible, which Kingray so highly worships, indicates that Christ himself instructed his disciples that Mary is not only Christ's own mother, but the Mother of all Christ's disciples and followers. Christ instructs all good Christians to behold our Holy Mother. To reject Mary as Kingray has done is to act against the teachings of Christ.
So Kingray, don't claim that you espouse the one true religion when in fact your beliefs contradict even the Bible that you claim to worship. May Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior clear your vision of the lies that you have been told and may He bless you with the gift of Truth.
[/end satire]
I think EternalParadox is getting a kick out of this :P
I'm not so sure, but weren't there many wars during those time? There were some theories or something to that point that Mary probably could've been raped, then again, I don't know. Another question arises, was Mary actually virgin or just lieing about being a virgin?
I'm getting a kick out of reading this
Carry
on, EternalParadox.
You know I never even thought about that O_O
He does seem to have a problem with understanding certain...issues.
hmmm well both have brought us a long way...but i lean towards the science side more because of how it helps us figure out things, calculating, etc... Also science brings facts
and
please i truly do not mean to offend anyone in anyway
facts=truths
truths=reasoning
reasoning=understanding so basically they both are important but yes to me more of a science i say!
Maybe you should have put a hyperlink to the entry on Dictionary.com or something so Kingray100 wouldn't even have to look up the word satire himself, which he shouldn't have to in the first place. It's not like the word is that uncommon.
The Holy Ghost impregnated Mary, so technically she's not a virgin and neither is God I guess. I wonder if that counts as adultery too...
Gather the mob! Bring out the torches and stakes! And don't forget the marshmallows too.
Sex with a ghost...now that's a turn on. LOL
you know God's will now?funny.
i'd like to see how you prove its God's will for there to be homosexuals...and colors of skin was intended for purpose of individuality,and protection from certain climates.homosexuality serves no purpose and is not morally correct,since we all know that man plus woman equal life....and that man and man equals no life and contradicting lifestyles among men.so its not the same as skin color.
---everything is gods will, thats why you know it to be. Ive already gone through this, besides, homozexuality doesnt hurt anyone, why should you care? Its not infectuous, its not contagious, and it isnt a choice. Your either born attracted to the opposite sex, or not. God made the reproductive system, if he made it possible for there to be homosexuals, then that was his choice. I'll post my argument about why god controls everything, this is probably my fourth time trying to get this through to you.
-Planning and knowing are different, but not when you have knowledge of absolutely everything. You do not seem to understand the full extent of being omniscient. This would mean that you could plan the trajectoy of every object in space down to the very last infitesimal speck. He knew and knows what your thinking, doing and will be from now to the rest of your life, and same with everyone else. He knew you were going to be alive before the existance of anything. He knew that your would marry your father and knew which sperm was going to reach your mothers egg and knew exactly how the chromatin would mix to create the person you are. He saw you and everyone else for all of time, live and die in the blink of an eye. If an asteroid destroys all of humanity, this would have been part of his plan. He created the forces and should know the exact strength that each should play on every single particle and made the matter move off in the directions that he wished, to fulfill his plans. You know how you can concentrate on one thing at a time? God can do that with everything, for all of time, right down to the very particles that are moving and jostling. Even the electrons, which zoom around the atom at the speed of light itself. God is a dictator as he planned your life and what you would do in it. He has inforced other people to make sure you know and will do what you are ment to do as well. He knew your teacher would be the one to teach you and make you know what you know and think you live for today. You, me and everyone has a plan set for them by god. Yes, even the people responsible for 9/11. Now, I didnt want to go into such excutiating detail, now if you dont understand this, I would think it would be because you dont want to than not really understanding. Once again, God is a dictator. By the way, sorry for the typos.
---Gods will has been present all through time, and is still with us to this very day. If you were a homosexual, that would have been his actions that he took at the beginning of the universe. So what if they cant reproduce, as I said, the earth is far too over populated, we could use a little more of them infact. I'm not gay myself, but I do believe that people are going to be how they're going to be, and who are we to tell people what is okay? Their normal people, same as you or I, and attraction should have nothing to do with anyones worth.
merged: 10-16-2007 ~ 08:06am
I see your point about the difference in skin colour, I was more going for the inolerance shown to them than the purpose, but should everything have a purpose? Homosexuality is when the brain of a male, resembles more of a female brain, such a a larger fibres that connect the right and left hemispheres of the brain. So it isnt a choice, and it doesnt make them at all different really. I'm an atheist, so I dont believe that there really is a point to life, and we souldnt complain about other peoples preferences or traits. We should just embrace everyone as they are. There isnt really a point to heterosexuality really, its just whats kept our species going all these years. Dont worry, our species isnt in any danger of extinction, so I think we can rest easy about having gay people around. Everyones existance is really mearly chance, and we should make the most of our short lives, getting those endorphines flowing as much as possible, making it pleasurable for others along the way.
Can I just clear up something, homosexuality isn't exactly of brain resemblance, as female and male brains are actually both the same when everyone is born. There are theories and possibilities of homosexuality, transgender, etc, derives from the CNS (central nervous system) and causes such... Transgender is one that feels they're the other gender, homosexuality is just the attraction towards the same gender, they're both different, they can be totally unrelated, but they are not necessarily hand in hand. As such, I think a lot of people has heard me say this, someone can be gay but not transgender, and someone can be heterosexual and be transgender.
By the way, hormones (testosterone / estrogen) actually shapes the gender more than the genes.
That was the third or fourth strangest post I've seen all day. Maybe you should look it over to see what's wrong with it. Thanks.
I lol'd! This is funny in so many ways...
Not using a period at the end of a complete sentence and not using proper punctuations throughout. Grammar- and spelling-wise, I'd give a certified FAIL!
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Okay people, this thread is not a place to discuss the grammatical aptitude of fellow MT members. Discuss the content, not the delivery.
as a matter of fact,i did look it up in the dictionary...it seemed that i didnt understand that it was a satire until i was half way through the whole thing...
well thats fishy...i know i saw you type and say that i was a catholic...you must have edited your post then...but either way,its not important...
really...i thought catholics were catholic....
i beg to differ....God clearly says how being saved is the one and only way into heaven,and tells us to follow his rules(in the bible) for a good christian life expected of Jesus.He doesnt say that just because different traditions are practiced you go to hell,or that you are inferior...and just to let you know,the christianity im involved in is the one where we follow the bible,not something else.
look...Mary is a great person....she deserves to be acknowledged and known,and we should be happy she gave birth to Jesus.....but we shouldnt PRAY TO MARY,AS THE BIBLE SAYS NOT TO HAVE ANY GODS BEFORE HIM.Mary also knows and says that SHE PRAYS TO JESUS,THE SON OF GOD.The overall purpose of my point is,that Mary is a good person,but she was just chosen by God to give birth to Jesus....God chose her....she wasnt born supernaturally.satire suppressed temperarily...
merged: 10-20-2007 ~ 08:29am
what i think is sad is how you waste time insulting me and not talking about the point of the thread.wise up and tell me your side of the argument,unless you've spent all of your resources.
merged: 10-20-2007 ~ 08:36am
i never rejected Mary....again,she is important and necessary....but should not be prayed to....only honored and remembered,as our holy mother,not a God that wants to be prayed for,because that indeed sir,would be contradicting the bible.
i understand that this is part of your satire but your getting out of control....if im correct,your an atheist,and for you to pretend to help me and mention Jesus' name as if you knew him,is annoying and disgracful.i understand what your saying,but your crossing the line with this kind of thing.
merged: 10-20-2007 ~ 08:42am
and i could say buddha just lied to everyone and just made up some whacky belief and say meditating and getting happiness is the way life is suppose to be like....see how effective your little theories are....there can always be a "maybe" or a "but" in an events that happened so long ago.so is there a point in saying that,because you might as well start questioning simple things like,did we really make it to space,or did the government just brainwash us into thinking that we did,giving us fake images of space and making prototypes that have no chance in entering space....seriously,thats your logic....
merged: 10-20-2007 ~ 08:44am
thats something you would like to believe,isnt it?pleasure in thinking your opponent in a debate knows nothing....thats understandable from your point of view.
merged: 10-20-2007 ~ 08:47am
you seem to be more of a comedian than someone who debates anything....i suggest you audition for Saturday night live...you would be a hit.
although,you picking on someone's mistakes for a few posts isnt that funny to begin with....
I find it is commonly believed among Protestants that Catholicism is not Christianity: not because they don't like it, but because they're all ignorant. Just goes to show how much better non-Christians understand things in general.
um im glad you responded,but this is alot to read....i've been on for awhile already,so im just gonna answer some parts of this...
first,i do understand omniscience.Second,you said the word "could".now he could have done something,but does it mean he did?no....so thats of little use to either of us.
im try not to get angry at things people say about the bible,but this is angering me....for the last time,where does it say in anything that God has planned our life?he knows what will happen and he could only intervene when the world will be destroyed..dictatorship is an act that REQUIRES FORCE.God isnt forcing us to do anything....you cant say God planned you to be atheist,but you can say you've chosen to be atheist by your choice and nobody elses.I respect your beliefs, but dont assume that he is a dictator....please look it up in the dictionary at least.unless God picks you up and slams you into a wall and tells you to read the bible,dont say he is a dictator.understood?
merged: 10-20-2007 ~ 08:59am
you have the logic of a crazed teenager...can you respond to anything without selfish assumptions?
But do realize that he never said pray to Mary...
Sheesh, stop being so hostile...
Aside from you not understanding the buddhist's standpoint of happy, just so I can inform you of it, the nirvanistic state of happiness is one that doesn't fall to temptation, or any of those such. Hey, there are a lot of conspiracy theories with the government. Also, thats not my logic... -.- there is no absolute proof to what happened that long ago, there can't be. Stop trying to dictate what people are... sheesh.
No seriously, the way you display yourself, you do have some problems understanding about some issues...
Well, you don't seem to think things through all that much.
Okay, this is from dictionary.com...
1. a person exercising absolute power, esp. a ruler who has absolute, unrestricted control in a government without hereditary succession.
2. (in ancient Rome) a person invested with supreme authority during a crisis, the regular magistracy being subordinated to him until the crisis was met.
3. a person who authoritatively prescribes conduct, usage, etc.: a dictator of fashion.
4. a person who dictates, as to a secretary.
Now, does it have anything to do with force? No, it doesn't...
The logic of a crazed teenager makes sense, and hell, you're a teenager... Plus, you're making so many selfish assumptions...
And yet again, you don't read. As I noted in my previous post, Catholics consider Mary a saint, not a God. You also need to take the time to understand the Catholic tradition before making incorrect assertions and generalizations. For a Catholic, praying to a saint is not idolatry because saints are not Gods but people blessed by Divine Grace from God in Heaven. They are people who in their lives have set a high standard of faithfulness and moral standing, and who Catholics believe hold a special place in God's eyes. Saints are true Servants of God. Praying to a saint is merely asking for their help in conveying the prayer to God; it is praying to God via an intermediary who God has blessed.
In Catholic tradition, there are three levels of theological importance - Adoration, Veneration, and Praise. For Catholics, Adoration is the highest possible form of worship, and is offered only to God. Veneration is offered to Saints. Mary is given Praise. Neither Veneration nor Praise is worship, hence there is no violation of the Ten Commandments.
You feel angered by my "preaching" to you about the correct religion via what I have clearly denoted as satire, and yet you preach to the many members who disagree with you that you somehow subscribe to the one true religion. Isn't that ironic?
And by the way, you are not correct. What makes you think that I'm an atheist? Because I disagree with your dogmatic arrogance in holding your version of Christianity as the only correct religion? Moreover, you drew the line when you asserted that your Christianity is the only correct religion without even considering other denominations and branches of Christianity, many of which hold very different beliefs in what constitute Biblical facts and history but still all believe in God and Christ. You all but invited anyone with a basic understanding of Christian values to cross that line.
Even using only Christian beliefs as arguments, your mulish insistence of one true religion runs against Christ's message of love and tolerance. Jesus teaches us to act justly and walk humbly before our God. To make sweeping generalizations about the character of those who disagree with your beliefs, to imply that you alone subscribe to God and his message, to hold in contempt other faiths as factually wrong when in reality you know very little about their beliefs, to claim that you somehow have "proven" the factual error of other faiths when all you have done is present some widely erroneous stereotypes is to act unjustly and certainly not humbly.
You claim to respect the belief of others, including that of professed atheists such as DarkRose. Respect requires a genuine desire for understanding of the other's beliefs, even if you do not and cannot accept or agree. That you so frequently resort to stereotypes and generalizations is only indication that you have not made a sincere attempt to truly understand.
Certainly, respect is necessary on both sides. To all those who will participate in this thread - seek to understand fully the beliefs of the other. Rely not on assumptions but on facts.
Finally, to answer what appears to be a greatly nagging question of yours, Kingray, I am Catholic.
No, it's not something I want to believe in - it's just how you've been presenting yourself so far. And if you don't even realize that...it's just sad, real sad.
And you know what? You seem to have no logic at all.
I don't think you even understand what EternalParadox is saying.
And I can see quite clearly that you have zero respect for everyone else.
So so true.
...that's a pretty dumb thing to say as that could very well apply to what you believe in.
I read his post before you replied and I believe he was asking you if you're a Catholic, not claiming that you are indeed a Catholic.
...this is just ignorance at its best.
but do realize that many catholics pray to mary.thats my point.
i can tell your running out of things to say....if your gonna quote something and say im hostile,then you have lots of time on your side,dont you?
yes yes....i already knew this...i just didnt want to mention the details.....i made a quick summary and said buddhists want happiness....and yes,it does include not falling into temptation,even though thats just about impossible since you cannot read one's thoughts.
and this would be a false assumption.i think of what i type to the people of MT.if i make a statement,im always ready to stand by it.
your kidding me right?you have to use dictionary dot com to find these things?is the internet that necessary?i just looked up in a regular dictionary,which i find more trustworthy than a site on a computer,although,im not saying there arent reliable sites either.and if your looking up dictator,i get some different things....like a person granted emergency power....although that seems like a weird sample...but another definition says that it is usually someone that rules oppressively.either way,a dictator needs force in order to obtain a dictatorship.
merged: 10-21-2007 ~ 08:10am
you've lowered yourself to insulting me just for pointing out the truth....the statement he made was very childish,and the statement you just made,also requires little logic....im wondering if my debating skills arent meant for rebellious teens.....i prefer talking to a sophisticated gentleman who presents himself in a kind manor and dictates his ideas and beliefs clearly without jumping around and insulting anyone....I might have to move on to people who are ready for a fair debate.
is there a reason why i should take your word?i mean,you seem to hate every bone in my body.....im gonna leave the subject alone for now.
not really...this could be used for anything.....simple questions like "what color is the apple hanging on that tree" can be curved around in every direction from the logic of some people.every question will always have a doubtful nature to it,even if it is considered a fact.
well thats a lie...i say very often that i respect everyone...just because im debating with someone,doesnt mean i do not respect them.
merged: 10-21-2007 ~ 08:30am
but God doesnt point out who he thinks is better....he sees all his creations as equals,who have the potential of going to heaven.He loves everyone the same no matter what,and he states this over and over.Realize if you want to convey the prayer to God,you simply pray to Jesus,the son of God,as the bible says you should.
but realize that like me being an atheist,and saying i love god and know everything that needs to be passed on to other people....i talk/preach my point because its what i believe in,and i provide reason why i do....you use a big false satire and preach to people in a satirical way,almost making fun of the belief.Even if it is a satire,im getting your point,but there is no need to completely satirically preach something you oppose and detest.Im sure people who believed in Zues wouldnt want me preaching about him,because im the person who opposes zues.just realize,i do realize that its a satire.
well im sorry if you arent an atheist,but i could have sworn i saw it somewhere....then do me a gigantic favor and tell me what you are,that would make me feel a little better.
well yes,he does teach about being humble...and i wish i could all the time,but im a sinner,as the bible points out,and i cant be perfect,although i desire to be christlike....thanks for reminding me about that....seriously though,thats good advice i actually heard from you.See,if people operated a little like you,there would actually be a type of civilized debate going on...and lastly, i try not to say Christianity is the one special religion that we should convert to....im saying in general as my message to my existence on this site(right now anyway)is to teach the right and wrongs of the bible,so that lies arent spread,and to teach why Christianity is eligible to be in the top 5 religions to be true column....we all know the is truth...we are searching for it,some say the truth is hard to look for,others say its simpler than it looks....I just want to say I greatly respect you and your cause....im proud in a sense that i can debate with you...i hope you act as a role model to other people who wish to debate in a friendly manor.
merged: 10-21-2007 ~ 08:35am
well yeah,it might not be the easiest post to understand,but I think he/she has the main point....just not in a way that much people can understand...what i think he/she is saying is that God can help people just as much as science can.For someone,a gameboy can be great,but for another,a bible could be a great gift also.That gameboy will give happiness for a while....the bible will give happiness also....but the question is,which will be preserved as being the better gift?just a thought....thanks a lot moonlight,for pointing out your opinion.
forgot to address this...the way you said the logic of a crazed teenager makes sense, kind of proves my point...
and teenagers arent all the same...believe it or not,one of my goals right now is to be considered a mature adult who can debate things in a wise manor.and so far,people consider me as an adult who's able to discuss things,without having any teenager pressure or teen logic(ex:jumping off houses is NOT safe and cool)...see what i mean,most teens where i live would say that its fun,but I dont see how they would ignore the problems that could occur....sorry for rambling on...
I've been sitting on the sidelines for a while now and have read all these posts and I have to say kingray, the overall vibe I'm getting is that these people are right. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I use to be religiously Christian through most my school life, I became atheist about 5 years ago. Although I became atheist I still had lots of respect for Christianity, you have almost single handedly destroyed most of that respect. You have made god look like a dictator and christianity almost look like a cult (in comparison to the christianity I grew up with).
You missed the main point of EPs post didn't you. It says quite clearly at the bottom that he is indeed a catholic himself, this grounds his post pretty firmly. You say you want to debate with someone gentlemanly like, if my memory serves me correct this thread started out that way however failed to go anywhere in terms of evidence and rebuttals. As far as a debate goes it failed and now it's just become rising tensions at the ignorance of the other party, not desirable but completely understandable.
Kingray, the one main thing that has crushed my respect for your argument is your persistence in omniscients. If god is all knowing and all powerful then he isn't very nice. God gave man his own will knowing what would happen. He put the tree in the garden of eden knowing it would be eaten from, that's like putting your dinner on the floor, saying "No" to your dog and walking away. Not only that but it was the devil who came up and tricked eve into eating the fruit, the devil who adam and eve had no knowledge about. Who punishes their children because a strange man made them do something bad. If god is all knowing and all powerful he did a very bad thing right at the start of humanity and we have all suffered for it since then. How can man, with no knowledge, fight temptation when he doesn't even understand what it is.
I would only have respect in god if he simply stuffed up at the beginning, but as an all knowing and all powerful god there really doesn't seem to be any excuse. He gave man willpower but he also let the devil manipulate it.