I think if it came down to it, I'd take a pig heart to live awhile longer - that
is if by then the drugs that they use to keep my body from rejecting it wouldn't
render my immune system useless. Pigs are similar to us in many ways so we use them for different transplants
(btw, we also use mice to grow human ears and such). Heck, people even taste like pork! Awhile back when
the taster robot was first out, they had it try all kinds of foods... apples,
grapes, vegetables, beef, etc. Someone thought it'd be cool to know what people
taste like... so they tried it. Guess what it said: PORK. We taste like pigs.
Humm... now isn't that something to chew on?
Evolution has happened. We can be related to animals. I don't have a problem
with that. I still believe that God created us all, so who am I to question how
he did everything. I take it on faith and use my own judgement.
Sometimes its difficult to use tact when doing a rebuttal... and sometimes
people don't want to make any more effort than just to state their individual
opinions. You might be taken more seriously in the forum if you take a little
more time to write your words more carefullly.
Its just a thought.
My grandpa says humans taste like lobster. He's not a canibal, this is one of
his World War II stories. Normally I'd think he was a crazy old man with fuzzy
memories, and for a while I did... until the day he showed me his picture with
General Patton. Now, I damn well assume humans taste like lobster.
Quote: Are... you... serious?
Seriously, do you read your own typing before you hit "Submit Post"?
How the hell can you consider what you just said as arguments? You, a girl
barely capable of forming a proper sentence, has single-handedly discredit all
empirical evidence that science has about the possibilities of evolution?
World-renowned scientists who have spent their entire careers studying the
origins of man, have just been schooled by a 16 year old girl? I'm actually
leaving this computer right now to vomit.
wahahaha. what did
i say?
:P seriously, you cant say all scientists are wrong, or right. but i know God's
right. that's it. darwin says his theory is wrong, we cant ignore that fact
As of this point, I give up ever trying to understand a single damn word you
say. Sometimes I can make out some kind of point, but that's rare. Instead I'll
just provide the community with "The Guide to Life: Priincess
Edition".
God created man, woman and beast. He created them as they are today no questions
asked. Even though evidence on his existence is severly lacking, his existence
is true. Live your life by exactly what the Bible says... even though some of it
isn't literal, you kind of have to figure that out. The 10 commandments are
supreme, gays shouldn't marry, there's no such thing as evolution, scientists
are liars... OH GOD MY BRAIN HURTS!
Quote: If humans are so different how come doctors can put
pig heart valves into people?
if you say so, you mean you
are also the same as pig or dog
If I need a heart valve in the future you're darn right and you would be to if
you needed one as well. Unless of course you would rather die than have a pig
heart-valve. It could happen religious people get heart disease to.
Evolution is real, the Bible is a lie, humans and the solar system came from a
giant solar worm's pubic hair and God is a giant pork brain. I've answered
everyone's question.
Quote: As of this point, I give up
ever trying to understand a single damn word you say. Sometimes I can make out
some kind of point, but that's rare. Instead I'll just provide the community
with "The Guide to Life: Priincess Edition".
ew,
that's so lol. John 10:25Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not
believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me,26but you do not
believe because you are not my sheep.27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them,
and they follow me.28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no
one can snatch them out of my hand.
Quote: God created man, woman and
beast. He created them as they are today no questions asked. Even though
evidence on his existence is severly lacking, his existence is true. Live your
life by exactly what the Bible says... even though some of it isn't literal, you
kind of have to figure that out. The 10 commandments are supreme, gays shouldn't
marry, there's no such thing as evolution, scientists are liars... OH GOD MY
BRAIN HURTS!
hello? science is a part of what God creates
of course. who says we dont believe in science? but science sometimes prove
wrong things, you must know that.
Luke 8:17For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing
concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.18Therefore
consider carefully how you listen. Whoever has will be given more; whoever does
not have, even what he thinks he has will be taken from him."
7And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him
day and night? Will he keep putting them off?8 I tell you, he will see that they
get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith
on the earth?"
Quote: God created man, woman and beast. He created them as
they are today no questions asked. Even though evidence on his existence is
severly lacking, his existence is true. Live your life by exactly what the Bible
says... even though some of it isn't literal, you kind of have to figure that
out. The 10 commandments are supreme, gays shouldn't marry, there's no such
thing as evolution, scientists are liars... OH GOD MY BRAIN HURTS!
hello? science is a part of what God creates of course. who
says we dont believe in science? but science sometimes prove wrong things, you
must know that.
Luke 8:17For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing
concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.18Therefore
consider carefully how you listen. Whoever has will be given more; whoever does
not have, even what he thinks he has will be taken from him."
7And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him
day and night? Will he keep putting them off?8 I tell you, he will see that they
get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith
on the earth?"
That made no sense at all. What is your point? Someone basically sums up your
beliefs in a few sentences and you respond with and off the wall comment about
science and a few Bible verses.
Wow, I've been gone for months (a year?) yet we seem to have the same basic
arguments ocuring, and priincess is bring back memories... memories of having to
clean up stuff (she?) says or something.
Anyway... where are we in this conversation?
Should I just start with: There is no conflict between faith and science, nor
between the Bible and Evolution, nor should any real Christian have a problem
with evolution. They only person who has ever taken serious study into both that
I've ever heard of saying that the Creation stories were a factual description
of what literally and specifically happened (there may have been others, I just
haven't heard of any others that meet this criteria) was Thomas Aquinas who
lived long before the theories of evolution and other scientific evidence of
other things, and who himself said [I could be wrong about this, and this could
be figurative or symbolic, but I feel that it is fact], and thus not so
definitely himself. Interestingly, another major theologian of that caliber from
earlier, Augustine, would not have accepted Christianity at all had it such
aspects of the bible not been explained to him to be symbolic, mythical and
otherwise.
One interesting thing about the relation between science and theology that a lot
of people don't realize is that most of science is actually a derivative of
philosophy and theology. Physics, for instance, was originally based and derived
from Metaphysics. Chemistry from Alchemy (which I guess is somewhat of a
religious endevor in some of its forms...?). And such genius breakthroughs as
all of Newton's work (including Calculus, Gravity, Laws of Motion, etc) were
part of his theological pursuits, rather than his strictly scientific, as he saw
his life work as moving toward finding a mathematical proof of God (he himself
wrote far more on theology than anything else). The man called the "Father
of Genetics" Gregor Mendel happened to be a Catholic Monk, and actually had
much of his scientific pursuits cut short when he had to take on the
responsibilities as abbot of his monastery.
From outside of Christianity, the Islamic scholars, who preserved much of the
ancient knowledge which later got back to the west and who made great strides in
science and mathematics, saw such pursuits as part of learning the faith.
Learning how the universe worked was a matter of learning what God had
done.
Also, you don't have to simply GUESS what is figurative and not. As I said
before, many of these stories were believed to be symbolic LONG before there was
evidence otherwise. Their very style and culture they came from indicate them as
such, as being clearly intended as such. No book in the bible was ever meant to
be a science book, they were Sacred writings about the truth of God's relation
with humanity, and use various styles to tell it (as we continue to use various
styles to get across messages today, both fictional and non-fictional, and
sub-categories thereof).
Quote: That made no sense at all.
What is your point? Someone basically sums up your beliefs in a few sentences
and you respond with and off the wall comment about science and a few Bible
verses.
i was responding to the words you said 'scientists are
liars... '
who said human evolved from apes?
Human is one being that have some similarity with apes but NOT in the one family
with them... If human was evolved from apes, then there will be no apes
nowadays... like when dinosaur evolved to lizards, there's no dinosaur on the
face of the earth rite? But, i do interested in Big Bang theory... it said that
earth was made when 2 small asteroid (or something like that) crash and made
some void space that suck in some space's dust until earth is like what we live
in right now... but do anyone know... WHO created that small asteroid?
I do believe in the higher existence above us and to the spiritual realm... But
i'm not too convinced about the existence of superbeing called GOD
Quote: That made no sense at all. What is your point?
Someone basically sums up your beliefs in a few sentences and you respond with
and off the wall comment about science and a few Bible verses.
i was responding to the words you said 'scientists are
liars... '
I believe you have confused scientists with politicians or lawyers.
Quote by flame7651who said human
evolved from apes?
Human is one being that have some similarity with apes but NOT in the one family
with them... If human was evolved from apes, then there will be no apes
nowadays... like when dinosaur evolved to lizards, there's no dinosaur on the
face of the earth rite? But, i do interested in Big Bang theory... it said that
earth was made when 2 small asteroid (or something like that) crash and made
some void space that suck in some space's dust until earth is like what we live
in right now... but do anyone know... WHO created that small asteroid?
I do believe in the higher existence above us and to the spiritual realm... But
i'm not too convinced about the existence of superbeing called GOD
uhh, wrong. dinosaurs did not evolve into lizards. but you can say they belong
to the same family. most dinosaurs went extinct 65mya. and earth is not made of
2 asteroids, its all about the formation of solar system. heavier elements
'sink' and lighter elements 'float' so that is why you find terrestrial planets
orbiting close to the sun, and gas giants in the outer orbit. and, do you know
every object has its own gravity? so earth is not created by 2 asteroids, same
as every objects in space. so in general elements gather up and form a body
(because of gravity), be it a rock, an asteroid, a jupiter, or a star
but anyway, it is said that lunar is there because another planet crashed onto
earth. many petty meteoroids did crashed onto earth though, in the early days of
earth.
Quote by flame7651who said human
evolved from apes?
Human is one being that have some similarity with apes but NOT in the one family
with them... If human was evolved from apes, then there will be no apes
nowadays... like when dinosaur evolved to lizards, there's no dinosaur on the
face of the earth rite? But, i do interested in Big Bang theory... it said that
earth was made when 2 small asteroid (or something like that) crash and made
some void space that suck in some space's dust until earth is like what we live
in right now... but do anyone know... WHO created that small asteroid?
I do believe in the higher existence above us and to the spiritual realm... But
i'm not too convinced about the existence of superbeing called GOD
uhh, wrong. dinosaurs did not evolve into lizards. but you can say they belong
to the same family. most dinosaurs went extinct 65mya. and earth is not made of
2 asteroids, its all about the formation of solar system. heavier elements
'sink' and lighter elements 'float' so that is why you find terrestrial planets
orbiting close to the sun, and gas giants in the outer orbit. and, do you know
every object has its own gravity? so earth is not created by 2 asteroids, same
as every objects in space. so in general elements gather up and form a body
(because of gravity), be it a rock, an asteroid, a jupiter, or a star
but anyway, it is said that lunar is there because another planet crashed onto
earth. many petty meteoroids did crashed onto earth though, in the early days of
earth.
Asteroids, meteorites and comets continue to hit the earth, actually. Not
necessarily all the time, nor very large ones, but there have been some major
ones in the last few million years and such.
Two interesting things about gravity: As I already mentioned it was
"discovered" or "realized" by Isaac Newton, who himself was
actually a theologian (at one time an Alchemist as well) who was trying to use
science and mathematics to prove God and for his other theological pursuits.
This doesn't prove one point or another really, just interesting context for
gravity.
Second, gravity is, interestingly enough, an unconfirmed and increasingly
doubtful force in quantum and particle physics. It is theorized that graviton is
the elementary particle which is the force of gravity, but that is a unconfirmed
particle. It has also been seen in the last few years that in various areas of
quantum physics, the universe seems to work nicely with various systems EXCEPT
gravity. In fact, some have come up with systems that make the equations of
physics much easier and works in all cases EXCEPT with gravity. Some are trying
to resolve this issue, but its still there, last I heard. Of course, I myself am
not in the field of physics, I just find it fascinating and read up on
interesting scientific areas like that every once in a while.
In any case, you're right that dinosaurs did not precisely evolve into lizards,
but likewise apes did not evolve into humans (but flame7651 is also wrong in the
reasoning on that). Humans are believed to have evolved from a common ancestor
as the apes. However, even if we DID evolve from apes, apes could easily still
be around. Evolution does not necessarily shift an entire species over to a new
species, it can create a new species from part of one, and the two can go on to
coexist. This has been seen to happen particularly in cases of separation, where
one branch of the species is set apart from the other, and develops different
mutations for a long period of time because of that until they are different
species. Its possible that both would evolve into different species, its
possible neither would, its possible for this to happen under other
circumstances as well, but the fact is an evolved species CAN coexist with its
ancestral species.
Big Bang theory, by the way, primarily concerns itself with the start of the
Universe, the big bang, not necessarily the start of the earth, although
derivatives of the theory can extend to that. Also, didn't I mention that Big
Bang theory had its roots in the work of a Catholic Priest? Maybe I forgot that
part, but in any case, its not at all a ruling out of God. There are other
theories which lend themselves to that more, although for the most part they are
not currently followed, like Steady-State theory (though it still has
supporters).
Gau:
for clarification;
i know it is still frequent for meteorites entering earth's atmosphere, but
mostly got burnt up real fast.
when i said "many petty meteoroids did
crashed onto earth though, in the early days of earth." i meant the
heavy bombardments of Hadean eon(if im not mistaken), where our solar system is
still full of large space rocks. (we still have many though, and with all these
NEOs looming around dangerously)
and just in case you misunderstood me, i believe apes and humans have common
ancestors but humans do not evolve from apes. (i think i said this before in
another post)
end of clarification.
for someone who has quite some knowledge my post would be lacking a lot of
information, because i don't usually put much information unless it's really
needed (i don't like making long posts because it would be difficult to read)
anyway great post.
Quote: Human is one being that have
some similarity with apes but NOT in the one family with them... If human was
evolved from apes, then there will be no apes nowadays
well,
this is the right answer^^
Quote: I believe you have confused
scientists with politicians or lawyers.
Quote: Human is one being that have some similarity with
apes but NOT in the one family with them... If human was evolved from apes, then
there will be no apes nowadays
well, this is the right
answer^^
Quote: I believe you have confused
scientists with politicians or lawyers.
why is
that?
Do you... have any REASONS for what you just said? Is there any reason WHY that
was the right answer? Did you read the rest of what has been said since that
point?
Maybe we should clarify something else too: Although "families" of
species could and often are attributed to having common ancestry, that is not
necessarily the primary criteria. A "family" in this sense is a term
of grouping, where there are certain key traits that are present or similar in
several species. For apes and humans, they are both mammalian (primarily linked
simply to having hair, but often other common features such as giving birth,
feed young with milk, warm blood, etc.), and we are primates (have shoulder
joints allowing for wide range of motion, 5 digits on front and hind limbs,
fingernails, relatively large brain compared to body size, two mammary glands,
to name a random few). These similarities are what is meant when said they are
of the same family, although it does point to a strong possibility of some
common ancestry, relatively closer than with other species.
As for the no apes if we evolved from apes, I already explained how inaccurate
that was.
And the reason it was said that you confused scientists with politicians or
lawyers was primarily as a joke, indicating that politicians and lawyers are in
the business of lying, but also to disagree by saying that scientists are not in
the business of lying. Although, granted, he may have misinterpreted what you
were saying since you were, in fact, not saying that scientists were liars, but
as you said responding to that statement of another in disagreement.
Quote: Maybe we should clarify
something else too: Although "families" of species could and often are
attributed to having common ancestry, that is not necessarily the primary
criteria. A "family" in this sense is a term of grouping, where there
are certain key traits that are present or similar in several species. For apes
and humans, they are both mammalian (primarily linked simply to having hair, but
often other common features such as giving birth, feed young with milk, warm
blood, etc.), and we are primates (have shoulder joints allowing for wide range
of motion, 5 digits on front and hind limbs, fingernails, relatively large brain
compared to body size, two mammary glands, to name a random few). These
similarities are what is meant when said they are of the same family, although
it does point to a strong possibility of some common ancestry, relatively closer
than with other species.
Quote: Maybe we should clarify something else too: Although
"families" of species could and often are attributed to having common
ancestry, that is not necessarily the primary criteria. A "family" in
this sense is a term of grouping, where there are certain key traits that are
present or similar in several species. For apes and humans, they are both
mammalian (primarily linked simply to having hair, but often other common
features such as giving birth, feed young with milk, warm blood, etc.), and we
are primates (have shoulder joints allowing for wide range of motion, 5 digits
on front and hind limbs, fingernails, relatively large brain compared to body
size, two mammary glands, to name a random few). These similarities are what is
meant when said they are of the same family, although it does point to a strong
possibility of some common ancestry, relatively closer than with other species.
ask another mammals, they dont turn into apes.
You realize you made no point whatsoever just now, right?
Also, yes, some mammals DID evolve into apes, they didn't TURN into apes though,
evolution doesn't work that way, a member of a species rarely mutates
significantly enough in its own life to suddenly become another species, its a
slow process which usually makes larger changes in the offspring rather than the
animals life. In any case, no, not all mammals turned into apes, thats why we
don't ONLY have apes now. No one said that we did. Mammals is a larger grouping
of animals than apes, why should we expect a subcategory to be the entirety of
the supercategory?
In any case, do you realize that we actually HAVE seen evolution of species on
various scales in other species, even rather rapid evolution in groups of, for
instance, single celled species and such?
@ttwen & gau
okay... i'm no expert in these thing, so i'm messed up on some complicated
theories (and i'm too lazy to search them on net).. thanks for the correction...
it's really broaden my mind ^^
Quote: Also, yes, some mammals DID
evolve into apes, they didn't TURN into apes though
which
mamals?
Quote: not all mammals turned into
apes,
you said evolution doesn't work that way before.
Quote:
thats why we don't ONLY have apes now.
what do you know
bout it? just because something makes sense doesnt mean it's true.
Quote: In any case, do you realize
that we actually HAVE seen evolution of species on various scales in other
species, even rather rapid evolution in groups of, for instance, single celled
species and such?
i dont see any animals have a lot lot lot
better brains after the evolution. and talk so different. i was thinking about
this.. that God makes the apes look similar to humans so that some of us will
think that we're the evolution from apes FOR TESTING our faith. and now, it's
really matched with what is written in the Bible about the non
believers
merged: 08-04-2008 ~ 05:01am
if the Bible really were just a fiction story, they who wrote it must mention
about dinosaurs to make it real because it would be a best seller book
merged: 08-04-2008 ~ 05:12am
'Second, here is an amazing fact: None of the ape fossils shows enough specific
human features for evolutionists to say without doubt that this is the point
where an ape turned human, and none of the human fossils shows enough specific
ape characteristics to indicate that they have actually evolved from
apes.'
The Bible is proof of God's existence? WTF.......
The Bible is proof that people existed and still exist that believe in a single
god. Before the theory of a single god about every society had a polytheistic
belief system, like the Egyptians, the Greeks (i'll leave out the Romans cause
they just stole the beliefs of the greeks and renamed the gods), the Germans,
the Balts, the Chinese, the aztecs, the mayans, etc, etc.
The reason behind these same kind of beliefs all around the world (every society
had a god/godess of love, one for agriculture, etc) is quite simple. Humans used
to be animals, animals being creatures acting on urges and instinct. You needed
food you'd hunt or gather it so you could eat. The species needed to go on so
you needed to mate. You were hunted youd flee. But the human brain became larger
and larger, we started to use tools, weapons, began to think and suddenly stuff
that used to be just part of life had to be explained, cuz we thought to much.
But how could you explain anything with just simple brains? well..... something
or someone invisible was making everything happen. Good explanation thinks
ancient forefather... but wait how can different things happen simultaneuosly? I
can't make a spear and cook the deer at the same time so how could something
else..... There are more invisible things or ones doing different things just
like us. So Sebek controls the rivers, Horus gives life, Isis gives fertitlity,
etc. So you see gods were created out of necessity for the human to cope with
his surroundings. Since nature is about as cruel in this place or the next every
society has about the same gods as any other. Then a group of people came up
with the idea of just one god, be it Allah or God, or whatever. It was a new
idea, revolutionary and we all know how fond humans are of revolution (LOL) This
religion quickly became popular, wars were fought and eventually monotheism
gained dominance over other polythistic religions.
Now, not to upset the monotheistic believers among us (which I don't belong to
btw), but the book of faith for every religion was written up from stories that
have been passed on from father to son, mother to daughter verbally for many,
many centuries before people were able to write. So many things written in them
hold a core of truth, but to say it contains the absolute truth would be just
plain silly and even heretical.
Silly? Why? simply because if it were true we are all decendents of Adam and Eve
we would be extinct a couple of centuries after humans were born... Adam the
first man, Eve made out of his rib: both have the same DNA (damn God cloned
people and now we can't because it's unethical?). They have children 2boys, 1
girl if i'm not mistaken. They are the only humans so to get the species going
the mate with each other, after a couple of inbreeding sessions later human race
gone due to genetical mutations with absolutely no chance for survival. Ask any
biologist about this phenomenon if you don't believe me.
Now for heretical..... What would God or society say about you having kids with
your mom/dad/sis/or bro huh?
So the holy book and just a bit of common sense proves that the holy book can't
be the absolute truth. To learn what scientist think about thetruth of for
example the Bible whatch Discovery's Bible uncovered. which shows a lot of
meaningful information and even proof and a lot of very likely theories.
I think if it came down to it, I'd take a pig heart to live awhile longer - that is if by then the drugs that they use to keep my body from rejecting it wouldn't render my immune system useless.
Pigs are similar to us in many ways so we use them for different transplants
(btw, we also use mice to grow human ears and such). Heck, people even taste like pork! Awhile back when
the taster robot was first out, they had it try all kinds of foods... apples,
grapes, vegetables, beef, etc. Someone thought it'd be cool to know what people
taste like... so they tried it. Guess what it said: PORK. We taste like pigs.
Humm... now isn't that something to chew on?
Just in case you don't believe me, here's some articles with pictures. ^^
Robots have taste: http://asia.cnet.com/blogs/mobileojisan/post.htm?id=39378880
Mouse growing human ear: http://www.pbs.org/saf/1107/features/body.htm
Evolution has happened. We can be related to animals. I don't have a problem with that. I still believe that God created us all, so who am I to question how he did everything. I take it on faith and use my own judgement.
Sometimes its difficult to use tact when doing a rebuttal... and sometimes people don't want to make any more effort than just to state their individual opinions. You might be taken more seriously in the forum if you take a little more time to write your words more carefullly.
Its just a thought.
My grandpa says humans taste like lobster. He's not a canibal, this is one of his World War II stories. Normally I'd think he was a crazy old man with fuzzy memories, and for a while I did... until the day he showed me his picture with General Patton. Now, I damn well assume humans taste like lobster.
wahahaha. what did i say?
:P seriously, you cant say all scientists are wrong, or right. but i know God's right. that's it. darwin says his theory is wrong, we cant ignore that fact
That's what you said.
you mean, some. who have met God and who believe Him
As of this point, I give up ever trying to understand a single damn word you say. Sometimes I can make out some kind of point, but that's rare. Instead I'll just provide the community with "The Guide to Life: Priincess Edition".
God created man, woman and beast. He created them as they are today no questions asked. Even though evidence on his existence is severly lacking, his existence is true. Live your life by exactly what the Bible says... even though some of it isn't literal, you kind of have to figure that out. The 10 commandments are supreme, gays shouldn't marry, there's no such thing as evolution, scientists are liars... OH GOD MY BRAIN HURTS!
Thank you and good night.
If I need a heart valve in the future you're darn right and you would be to if you needed one as well. Unless of course you would rather die than have a pig heart-valve. It could happen religious people get heart disease to.
Evolution is real, the Bible is a lie, humans and the solar system came from a giant solar worm's pubic hair and God is a giant pork brain. I've answered everyone's question.
ew, that's so lol. John 10:25Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me,26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep.27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.
hello? science is a part of what God creates of course. who says we dont believe in science? but science sometimes prove wrong things, you must know that.
Luke 8:17For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.18Therefore consider carefully how you listen. Whoever has will be given more; whoever does not have, even what he thinks he has will be taken from him."
7And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off?8 I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?"
That made no sense at all. What is your point? Someone basically sums up your beliefs in a few sentences and you respond with and off the wall comment about science and a few Bible verses.
Wow, I've been gone for months (a year?) yet we seem to have the same basic arguments ocuring, and priincess is bring back memories... memories of having to clean up stuff (she?) says or something.
Anyway... where are we in this conversation?
Should I just start with: There is no conflict between faith and science, nor between the Bible and Evolution, nor should any real Christian have a problem with evolution. They only person who has ever taken serious study into both that I've ever heard of saying that the Creation stories were a factual description of what literally and specifically happened (there may have been others, I just haven't heard of any others that meet this criteria) was Thomas Aquinas who lived long before the theories of evolution and other scientific evidence of other things, and who himself said [I could be wrong about this, and this could be figurative or symbolic, but I feel that it is fact], and thus not so definitely himself. Interestingly, another major theologian of that caliber from earlier, Augustine, would not have accepted Christianity at all had it such aspects of the bible not been explained to him to be symbolic, mythical and otherwise.
One interesting thing about the relation between science and theology that a lot of people don't realize is that most of science is actually a derivative of philosophy and theology. Physics, for instance, was originally based and derived from Metaphysics. Chemistry from Alchemy (which I guess is somewhat of a religious endevor in some of its forms...?). And such genius breakthroughs as all of Newton's work (including Calculus, Gravity, Laws of Motion, etc) were part of his theological pursuits, rather than his strictly scientific, as he saw his life work as moving toward finding a mathematical proof of God (he himself wrote far more on theology than anything else). The man called the "Father of Genetics" Gregor Mendel happened to be a Catholic Monk, and actually had much of his scientific pursuits cut short when he had to take on the responsibilities as abbot of his monastery.
From outside of Christianity, the Islamic scholars, who preserved much of the ancient knowledge which later got back to the west and who made great strides in science and mathematics, saw such pursuits as part of learning the faith. Learning how the universe worked was a matter of learning what God had done.
Also, you don't have to simply GUESS what is figurative and not. As I said before, many of these stories were believed to be symbolic LONG before there was evidence otherwise. Their very style and culture they came from indicate them as such, as being clearly intended as such. No book in the bible was ever meant to be a science book, they were Sacred writings about the truth of God's relation with humanity, and use various styles to tell it (as we continue to use various styles to get across messages today, both fictional and non-fictional, and sub-categories thereof).
i was responding to the words you said 'scientists are liars... '
who said human evolved from apes?
Human is one being that have some similarity with apes but NOT in the one family with them... If human was evolved from apes, then there will be no apes nowadays... like when dinosaur evolved to lizards, there's no dinosaur on the face of the earth rite? But, i do interested in Big Bang theory... it said that earth was made when 2 small asteroid (or something like that) crash and made some void space that suck in some space's dust until earth is like what we live in right now... but do anyone know... WHO created that small asteroid?
I do believe in the higher existence above us and to the spiritual realm... But i'm not too convinced about the existence of superbeing called GOD
I believe you have confused scientists with politicians or lawyers.
uhh, wrong. dinosaurs did not evolve into lizards. but you can say they belong to the same family. most dinosaurs went extinct 65mya. and earth is not made of 2 asteroids, its all about the formation of solar system. heavier elements 'sink' and lighter elements 'float' so that is why you find terrestrial planets orbiting close to the sun, and gas giants in the outer orbit. and, do you know every object has its own gravity? so earth is not created by 2 asteroids, same as every objects in space. so in general elements gather up and form a body (because of gravity), be it a rock, an asteroid, a jupiter, or a star
but anyway, it is said that lunar is there because another planet crashed onto earth. many petty meteoroids did crashed onto earth though, in the early days of earth.
Asteroids, meteorites and comets continue to hit the earth, actually. Not necessarily all the time, nor very large ones, but there have been some major ones in the last few million years and such.
Two interesting things about gravity: As I already mentioned it was "discovered" or "realized" by Isaac Newton, who himself was actually a theologian (at one time an Alchemist as well) who was trying to use science and mathematics to prove God and for his other theological pursuits. This doesn't prove one point or another really, just interesting context for gravity.
Second, gravity is, interestingly enough, an unconfirmed and increasingly doubtful force in quantum and particle physics. It is theorized that graviton is the elementary particle which is the force of gravity, but that is a unconfirmed particle. It has also been seen in the last few years that in various areas of quantum physics, the universe seems to work nicely with various systems EXCEPT gravity. In fact, some have come up with systems that make the equations of physics much easier and works in all cases EXCEPT with gravity. Some are trying to resolve this issue, but its still there, last I heard. Of course, I myself am not in the field of physics, I just find it fascinating and read up on interesting scientific areas like that every once in a while.
In any case, you're right that dinosaurs did not precisely evolve into lizards, but likewise apes did not evolve into humans (but flame7651 is also wrong in the reasoning on that). Humans are believed to have evolved from a common ancestor as the apes. However, even if we DID evolve from apes, apes could easily still be around. Evolution does not necessarily shift an entire species over to a new species, it can create a new species from part of one, and the two can go on to coexist. This has been seen to happen particularly in cases of separation, where one branch of the species is set apart from the other, and develops different mutations for a long period of time because of that until they are different species. Its possible that both would evolve into different species, its possible neither would, its possible for this to happen under other circumstances as well, but the fact is an evolved species CAN coexist with its ancestral species.
Big Bang theory, by the way, primarily concerns itself with the start of the Universe, the big bang, not necessarily the start of the earth, although derivatives of the theory can extend to that. Also, didn't I mention that Big Bang theory had its roots in the work of a Catholic Priest? Maybe I forgot that part, but in any case, its not at all a ruling out of God. There are other theories which lend themselves to that more, although for the most part they are not currently followed, like Steady-State theory (though it still has supporters).
Gau:
for clarification;
i know it is still frequent for meteorites entering earth's atmosphere, but mostly got burnt up real fast.
when i said "many petty meteoroids did crashed onto earth though, in the early days of earth." i meant the heavy bombardments of Hadean eon(if im not mistaken), where our solar system is still full of large space rocks. (we still have many though, and with all these NEOs looming around dangerously)
and just in case you misunderstood me, i believe apes and humans have common ancestors but humans do not evolve from apes. (i think i said this before in another post)
end of clarification.
for someone who has quite some knowledge my post would be lacking a lot of information, because i don't usually put much information unless it's really needed (i don't like making long posts because it would be difficult to read)
anyway great post.
well, this is the right answer^^
why is that?
Do you... have any REASONS for what you just said? Is there any reason WHY that was the right answer? Did you read the rest of what has been said since that point?
Maybe we should clarify something else too: Although "families" of species could and often are attributed to having common ancestry, that is not necessarily the primary criteria. A "family" in this sense is a term of grouping, where there are certain key traits that are present or similar in several species. For apes and humans, they are both mammalian (primarily linked simply to having hair, but often other common features such as giving birth, feed young with milk, warm blood, etc.), and we are primates (have shoulder joints allowing for wide range of motion, 5 digits on front and hind limbs, fingernails, relatively large brain compared to body size, two mammary glands, to name a random few). These similarities are what is meant when said they are of the same family, although it does point to a strong possibility of some common ancestry, relatively closer than with other species.
As for the no apes if we evolved from apes, I already explained how inaccurate that was.
And the reason it was said that you confused scientists with politicians or lawyers was primarily as a joke, indicating that politicians and lawyers are in the business of lying, but also to disagree by saying that scientists are not in the business of lying. Although, granted, he may have misinterpreted what you were saying since you were, in fact, not saying that scientists were liars, but as you said responding to that statement of another in disagreement.
ask another mammals, they dont turn into apes.
You realize you made no point whatsoever just now, right?
Also, yes, some mammals DID evolve into apes, they didn't TURN into apes though, evolution doesn't work that way, a member of a species rarely mutates significantly enough in its own life to suddenly become another species, its a slow process which usually makes larger changes in the offspring rather than the animals life. In any case, no, not all mammals turned into apes, thats why we don't ONLY have apes now. No one said that we did. Mammals is a larger grouping of animals than apes, why should we expect a subcategory to be the entirety of the supercategory?
In any case, do you realize that we actually HAVE seen evolution of species on various scales in other species, even rather rapid evolution in groups of, for instance, single celled species and such?
@ttwen & gau
okay... i'm no expert in these thing, so i'm messed up on some complicated theories (and i'm too lazy to search them on net).. thanks for the correction... it's really broaden my mind ^^
which mamals?
you said evolution doesn't work that way before.
what do you know bout it? just because something makes sense doesnt mean it's true.
i dont see any animals have a lot lot lot better brains after the evolution. and talk so different. i was thinking about this.. that God makes the apes look similar to humans so that some of us will think that we're the evolution from apes FOR TESTING our faith. and now, it's really matched with what is written in the Bible about the non believers
merged: 08-04-2008 ~ 05:01am
if the Bible really were just a fiction story, they who wrote it must mention about dinosaurs to make it real because it would be a best seller book
merged: 08-04-2008 ~ 05:12am
'Second, here is an amazing fact: None of the ape fossils shows enough specific human features for evolutionists to say without doubt that this is the point where an ape turned human, and none of the human fossils shows enough specific ape characteristics to indicate that they have actually evolved from apes.'
http://www.users.bigpond.com/rdoolan/human_evolution.html
The Bible is proof of God's existence? WTF.......
The Bible is proof that people existed and still exist that believe in a single god. Before the theory of a single god about every society had a polytheistic belief system, like the Egyptians, the Greeks (i'll leave out the Romans cause they just stole the beliefs of the greeks and renamed the gods), the Germans, the Balts, the Chinese, the aztecs, the mayans, etc, etc.
The reason behind these same kind of beliefs all around the world (every society had a god/godess of love, one for agriculture, etc) is quite simple. Humans used to be animals, animals being creatures acting on urges and instinct. You needed food you'd hunt or gather it so you could eat. The species needed to go on so you needed to mate. You were hunted youd flee. But the human brain became larger and larger, we started to use tools, weapons, began to think and suddenly stuff that used to be just part of life had to be explained, cuz we thought to much. But how could you explain anything with just simple brains? well..... something or someone invisible was making everything happen. Good explanation thinks ancient forefather... but wait how can different things happen simultaneuosly? I can't make a spear and cook the deer at the same time so how could something else..... There are more invisible things or ones doing different things just like us. So Sebek controls the rivers, Horus gives life, Isis gives fertitlity, etc. So you see gods were created out of necessity for the human to cope with his surroundings. Since nature is about as cruel in this place or the next every society has about the same gods as any other. Then a group of people came up with the idea of just one god, be it Allah or God, or whatever. It was a new idea, revolutionary and we all know how fond humans are of revolution (LOL) This religion quickly became popular, wars were fought and eventually monotheism gained dominance over other polythistic religions.
Now, not to upset the monotheistic believers among us (which I don't belong to btw), but the book of faith for every religion was written up from stories that have been passed on from father to son, mother to daughter verbally for many, many centuries before people were able to write. So many things written in them hold a core of truth, but to say it contains the absolute truth would be just plain silly and even heretical.
Silly? Why? simply because if it were true we are all decendents of Adam and Eve we would be extinct a couple of centuries after humans were born... Adam the first man, Eve made out of his rib: both have the same DNA (damn God cloned people and now we can't because it's unethical?). They have children 2boys, 1 girl if i'm not mistaken. They are the only humans so to get the species going the mate with each other, after a couple of inbreeding sessions later human race gone due to genetical mutations with absolutely no chance for survival. Ask any biologist about this phenomenon if you don't believe me.
Now for heretical..... What would God or society say about you having kids with your mom/dad/sis/or bro huh?
So the holy book and just a bit of common sense proves that the holy book can't be the absolute truth. To learn what scientist think about thetruth of for example the Bible whatch Discovery's Bible uncovered. which shows a lot of meaningful information and even proof and a lot of very likely theories.