Quote by Alastor9mOk, my first post
here, and I just want to talk over some religious
philosophy if that makes sense. I am an aethiest and would like someone
of the Christian faith to answer some of my queries. Geniuinely
interested cause me and some of my friends are having differing
opinions about this. Any opinions would be welcome. =] Most of these
queries are based around Heaven, Hell and Sin. 1) If you don't believe
in God you aren't clensed of Sin and hence sent to Hell to atone. God
apparently loves every being equally and wants us all to live in
Heaven. However, I find that is somewhat unfair that some people are
hence born under the influence of the Faith and so believeing is easier
for them, than others that aren't. How is this fair to those who find
it thus harder to believe?
2) Say someone was a Sinner for his entire life. Then suddenly he gets
sick. Very sick. He has one month to live. Then the day before he knows
he is going to die, he repents. Does he make it to Heaven? If so then
someone could theoretically repent just for the sake of going to
Heaven, and not for his Sins. Also it would be unfair for those who are
less Sinful during their lives. Any thoughts?
3) There's a murderer that kills people =P [No duh...] He kills, then
repents with all of his heart. then he kills again. Then repents. Then
kills and repents. What happens with him? Say he was truly sorry for
what he does but he has some maniac psychotic disorder. 5) Or what
happens to a child that is just born then dies within a few seconds of
life? Do they go to hell? For apparently everyone is born into Sin and
without time to repent these Sins that the baby committed by being
alive, the child would go to Hell? Or am I wrong?
Thank-you in advance for any opinions. Much appreciated ^__^
>>AlaN
Answer:
1. He didn't say that you are possibly cleansed of sin if you believe in him.
and it is right that it's hard to believe, as what i have seen from others, God,
is not forcing anyone to keep all his orders. and you said it yourself, he loves
everyone equally, so that's what fairness is.
2. no one really knows if he is gonna go to heaven or not. it depends upon the
person itself... is he really willing to repent? is his repentance by his own
free will? we all know that we can't prevent ourselves from sinning, it's a
natural human instinct. God does not look on how many sins a person does, he
looks in the heart. and he is mostly willing to forgive, as long as the person
itself is willing to submit himself to the Lord.
3. this one is out of the reason.... if he really repents will all his heart,
then why keep on killing all over and over again? if he really repented with all
his heart, he meant that he was mostly gonna change himself. Why repent if you
know you're gonna kill again? it doesn't make sense at all. those who repent
with all their heart are willing to change, and can be changed by their
faith.
4. apparently that one i cannot answer, if the child wasn't able to realize life
as it was, it's no sin at all. he, who has done nothing, has nothing to be
worried about. he has his own place, no one can say that he's gonna go to hell.
it is very impossible don't you think so?
Has anyone around here read anything
by Joseph Campbell?
nope, not particularly. Who's he?
About my answer in no. 5, i'll clear this one out, if so the baby dies... then
god must have a purpose for him why he did it. another thing, those answers are
according to what i believe in, so no contradicting please.
God's work isn't always something we can recognize immediately. It's not like a
car's gonna start flying after it's fallen from a bridge, haha, but that'd be
cool. And even if it did, people would attribute it to something else. But if
you ask a believer, they would say that God has already given us everything we
need, with the Bible and with Jesus. So is he still doing anything today? Yah,
sure. It's just not in the way things were like in the past, with the ocean
parting, or the staff becoming a snake.
Man has done a lot, but not without the help from God. He works within people,
changing the people, or changing the situation. We see his works through Man.
I think someone said in another thread, "You can't see the wind, but you
can see the effects of the wind," or something to that note. Besides, why
does one have to see something visually to believe in it spiritually?
I know it's just as easy to say that I'm automatically attributing all good
things to God, because that's what I used to think about believers. I guess it
just strikes me differently now.
Quote by ReleasEGod's work isn't always
something we can recognize immediately. It's
not like a car's gonna start flying after it's fallen from a bridge,
haha, but that'd be cool. And even if it did, people would attribute it
to something else. But if you ask a believer, they would say that God
has already given us everything we need, with the Bible and with Jesus.
So is he still doing anything today? Yah, sure. It's just not in the
way things were like in the past, with the ocean parting, or the staff
becoming a snake.
Man has done a lot, but not without the help from God. He works within
people, changing the people, or changing the situation. We see his
works through Man. I think someone said in another thread, "You can't
see the wind, but you can see the effects of the wind," or something to
that note. Besides, why does one have to see something visually to
believe in it spiritually?
I know it's just as easy to say that I'm automatically attributing all
good things to God, because that's what I used to think about
believers. I guess it just strikes me differently
now.
hmm.... let's just say bout an opinion of a 16-yr.-old Believer ok? i think,
it's because people are secluding themselves to God, or so, that's what i think,
it's like.. he knocks on the door, but they don't let him in, it's just like
that.
In my opinion, god and religion is really just there to keep people under
control. It's like a shepherd making sure his sheep don't open their eyes and
deciding to wander off and explore.
i feel, as an atheist, that I'm even stronger than most religious people because
I deal with my problems myself. It's easy to give up and say "god wanted
that" instead of rolling up your sleeves and fight back. It's easier to
accept stuff becuase "god has a purpose for it" instead of questioning
it and dealing with it. I don't have a religion or anything to back me up, but I
do grow strong mentally by going through hard times and knowing that I will
always have the power to make it through.
The world is not always fair and it's not always pretty. And sometimes, like
with death, there's no reason to it or anybody to blame. It has nothing to do
with religion and there's no justification for it, but it still happens. in
times like that it's good to know that I'm independent and capable enough to
make it through and look after myself and friends/family. Personally, I don't
need a religion to find purpose or strength in my life. I can do that myself.
Quote by AyameSeishiro
Answer:
1. He didn't say that you are possibly cleansed of sin if you believe in him.
and it is right that it's hard to believe, as what i have seen from others, God,
is not forcing anyone to keep all his orders. and you said it yourself, he loves
everyone equally, so that's what fairness is.
2. no one really knows if he is gonna go to heaven or not. it depends upon the
person itself... is he really willing to repent? is his repentance by his own
free will? we all know that we can't prevent ourselves from sinning, it's a
natural human instinct. God does not look on how many sins a person does, he
looks in the heart. and he is mostly willing to forgive, as long as the person
itself is willing to submit himself to the Lord.
3. this one is out of the reason.... if he really repents will all his heart,
then why keep on killing all over and over again? if he really repented with all
his heart, he meant that he was mostly gonna change himself. Why repent if you
know you're gonna kill again? it doesn't make sense at all. those who repent
with all their heart are willing to change, and can be changed by their
faith.
4. apparently that one i cannot answer, if the child wasn't able to realize life
as it was, it's no sin at all. he, who has done nothing, has nothing to be
worried about. he has his own place, no one can say that he's gonna go to hell.
it is very impossible don't you think so?
Response =p:
1) You say that He loves everyone fairly however if you compare a child living
under Christian influence and one with Buddhist parents for example. The if you
look at it on all accounts, the child living with Christian parents would have a
higher likelihood of being "saved". Thus it shakes the foiundations of
fairness as there is somewhat of a bias. It's not the child's decision what
family he is born into.
2) Yet again this issue of fairness arises. He does repent with all of his heart
and so according to you he would go to Heaven. But he initially needed some form
of "motivation" to undergo this repentence, this being his looming
death. But it's unfair to the Aethist who dies suddenly, and so lacks the
oppurtunity to see his life flash before his eyes. Who knows? He might have done
the same thing as the sick person if given the oppurtunity and be saved as well.
3) Well say the man can't help it. Remember he does have a psychotic madness
that makes him very angry. He can't help controlling his emotions, though he
himself is truly sorry. What would stop him from blaming God for is state? Yet
again it apears quite bias for some.
4) Then where would the baby go? It is said that all people are born into Sin.
The Bible itself says that. In theory the baby would go to Hell, for having lack
of repentence for his Sins. Yet again somewhat unfair that a baby without
oppurtunity to repent is sentenced to an enternity of suffering.
Yaaaay finally done. Fingers sore.
Edit~~ Awww no debate... Ok
lolz dw ^^ I respect your opinions. =]
Quote by AyameSeishirofor some
reason, i do understand a part of an atheist's side. but... what is this one
thing that makes you not to believe in God?
I lack a belief in entities that people generally refer to as god or gods. In
that case, I am an Atheist (according to the "weak" definition of
"atheism"). As far as I know, I have not encountered a god claim that
I find is worthy of assent.
Quote by Lord_Tensai_IIIIt maybe
wrapped up in a bunch of evolution mumbo-jumbo, but they figure if we're really
only smart monkeys, then no one can judge them for acting like animals,
right?
Different animals behave in different ways. The "bunch of evolution
mumbo-jumbo" teaches that people behave like humans.
Quote by AyameSeishiroanswer this
question... What do you think is the purpose of your
existence?
Purpose can come from anyone or anything. The same object can have different
purposes to different people or to the same person at different times. If you
want to do something with your life, then your life has purpose.
As for questions such as "What is your divinely-dictated purpose of your
existence," well, I have not encountered such a purpose claim that I find
is worthy of assent.
Quote by HikutsuKyoumeh, science is
far from perfect, I will admit it, but we are at least working on getting to the
truth. There is no basis for what the bible says, no evidence what so ever. I
don't like to believe that all of a sudden BAM! Everything is there; it doesn't
work for me, because DNA says we are VERY close to the monkeys and apes. Does
the bible explain that? Don't think so.
Good post.
Quote by sammoeven the idea of creation is
being reduced to nil, because of the theory of evolution, which is still far
from perfect
There is also the Big Bang Theory (beginning of the universe) and a theory of
abiogenesis (beginning of life on Earth).
Some people lump all of those theories together as "Evolution." That
drives the astronomers who can't stand biology, and the biologists who can't
stand physics, nuts.
Quote by dutchforcei feel, as an
atheist, that I'm even stronger than most religious people because I deal with
my problems myself. It's easy to give up and say "god wanted that"
instead of rolling up your sleeves and fight back. It's easier to accept stuff
becuase "god has a purpose for it" instead of questioning it and
dealing with it. I don't have a religion or anything to back me up, but I do
grow strong mentally by going through hard times and knowing that I will always
have the power to make it through.
Just because people are
religious (a dangerous term, honestly) doesn't mean that their weaker than
someone else, or that they don't question why something happened. Religion
doesn't make them weak that they have to just let everything happen. The
tsunami is a good example; Christians (at least where I am) are donating tons of
money for supplies and stuff to send over there. we aren't cowering in a
corner, saying "Oh, God must have a plan, so we'd better not
interfere." No, we're active, coming together in order to help those who
are in need of it. Of course, nonreligious people are also helping...I'm not
trying to say otherwise. Anyway...that's all I have to say for now. Please, no
one take anything I say personally...I just tend to get going (as happened
earlier). It's late now, and I have some tests tomorrow; please, if anyone
wants to talk to me further, go to my member page and leave me a note or
something so I'll know to come back or talk to that person. Oh ya, sorry,
Alastor9m, but I think I took too long to try and answer. I still will if you
drop a line on my page.
well it's not that i'm pure atheist, more like agnostic, but yeah you know god
only exists as long as someone believe in him, that's our power, to make our
dreams come true...
plus i think humans don't need a god to help them, they should take up their
destiny and figth for life... i respect those who believe, i think the books of
religion (bible, coran etc...) are great for the time they were written in, it
was made to avoir diseases (washing your feets because it was one of the
greatest source of infection....), to help structure a real human
community........
the problem is that ppl refuse to make those precepts evolve along with the
situation, and that is sooo stupid !! anyway, the messages that religion give
is also a pure common sense stuff, "love each other", "do not
kill" etc.......... yeah it's true, but that does not mean there's
necessarily a god.... i mean it's great someone said that, but ppl should do it
without being guided, i think that's the point of religion : allowing ppl to get
rid of it when they incorporated everything good there was in it
The question is somewhat vague, not believing God doesn't mean you don't
understand God, is like asking what vegetarian don't understand about meat.
Some people just don't like meat while others have strong belief about not
killing animals for food. So at the end, it is a choice that people make, they
aren't missing something in their understanding of the things they oppose.
Atheism isn't belief in nothing. That would be nihilism. Atheism is lack of
belief in God or some higher power.
What don't I understand about God. I don't understand why such a God would
allow people to kill and torture in His name. I don't understand why a
perfectly virtuous Buddhist man will go
to Hell, while a serial killer will go to Heaven if he submits himself to the
Lord. I don't understand why there is sin or Hell at all. Most of all, I don't
understand why a supposedly benevolent and omnipotent God would allow such
injustice and hate in the world.
Quote by CLAMPchicI disagree; who says
there is no proof for what the Bible says? And for clearity, the Bible doesn't
say that there was a sudden BAM! Everything is there; it actually tells about
the process God used in creating things. The first day, He made this and saw it
was good, the second day, and so on. No, the Bible may not explain how we have
similar DNA to monkeys, but yet, neither does science.
That God made dinosaur bones to test a person's faith is only some people's
beliefs. Show me in the Bible where it says that dinosaurs don't exist. Have you
read about the Leviathan mentioned in the book of Job? And what about the
creature that swallowed the prophet Jonah? Those don't deny dinosaurs existence.
And as for carbon dating, there have been instances in which it was
inaccurate.
I am not familiar with the Bible in any scholarly sense. I know some of the
stories, such as God creating the earth and life on it in 6 days, and common
knowledge things like that. From what I've heard, doesn't a strict
interpretation of the Bible also leads to the conclusion that the earth is,
what, 6000 years old? What, if any, evidence is there of that?
If we accept that the creatures described in the Bible are dinosaurs, then we
also accept that dinosaurs lived at the same time as humans, and there is no
evidence of that at all. Carbon dating can be inaccurate, but to be off by many
millions of years is pushing it just a bit. Furthermore, carbon isn't the only
method of dating used; the age of rocks and the earth has been verified using
several different methods.
Quote by CLAMPchicThat's not exactly
how it works. God doesn't want people to burn in hell; in all truth, He wants
all people to know Him and exist with Him in heaven. But as much as He is a
loving God, He is also a just and righteous God, one who dispenses punishment
and mercy depending on if someone believes in Him. He may not like the task, but
it must and will be done. As a random side note, hell wasn't made for
unbelievers; it was originally made for the beast and his prophet (the
anti-christ and his prophet in the end times).
If God wants all people to be with Him in Heaven, why doesn't He make it so?
He's omnipotent, is He not? Why doesn't He erase the beast from existence? Why
would he create humans with the potential for, and even the preference for,
sin?
Quote by CLAMPchicMany Christians would
say nature itself; I would agree. How could something as beautiful as Mt. Rainer
be an accident of some kind?
The formation of the natural world is anything but an accident. There are many,
many factors that affect natural wonders such as mountains. The wind and
erosion, the movement of tectonic plates, rain and snow, etc etc. Further,
there is quite often logic behind how the world works, even if it seems random.
Leaves growing on flower stalks arrange themselves to maximize the sunlight that
reaches them. Mathematical patterns can be observed in things like pine cones
and sunflowers.
Quote by CLAMPchicWell, there is only
one devil, and he is now commonly known by the name Satan; his original name was
Lucifer (meaning 'shining one'), and he was a created being of the cherubim
order (a type of angel). In the Bible it says that God has always been, and
always will be; God created Satan along with all the other
angels
God is all-seeing, all-knowing, and all-powerful, right? God is perfect and
omnipotent. Did God forsee Lucifer's rebellion? If so, why didn't He just
erase all thought of rebellion from Lucifer? Or simply erase Lucifer and the
rebelling angels from existence?
I believe that it is impossible to verify or disprove the existence of God; His
very nature makes it so. I personally do not believe in God, but I have no
problem with people who do. That said, I apologize if I have offended anybody
with my post. Also, I apologize to CLAMPchic because it looks like I'm singling
you out. I'm not; your posts are just the longest ones and the easiest ones to
quote.
Well, whether I'm an atheist or not I don't know, but I can probably contribute
with my thoughts as well.
I don't belive in a God, nor do I completely render it impossible for a higher
force to exist. However, up until now the only thing I can really trust on is
myself. No God or praying has ever helped me, but what has is my own strength. I
like to live MY life the way I want it to be, and therefore I craft my own
dreams and my own future. I live because life is a lesson, and I like to learn
it.
I also dislike religions like christianity and the likes because of the way it
has been exploited over the years to do terrible things. I think believing too
strongly is self destructive, and I've seen people fall because of their
believes..
Quote by CLAMPchicNo, the Bible may not
explain how we have similar DNA to monkeys, but
yet, neither does science.
actually, science believes that we evolved from one creature, man, apes and
monkies that is. Therefore, that would explain the DNA thing.
Quote by CLAMPchic
And as for carbon dating, there have been instances in which it was
inaccurate.
yes, it hasnt allways been perfect, but I dont recall any time when its been off
by millions of years.
Quote by CLAMPchicHe wants all
people
to know Him and exist with Him in heaven. But as much as He is a loving
God, He is also a just and righteous God, one who dispenses punishment
and mercy depending on if someone believes in Him. He may not like the
task, but it must and will be done.
but why does he send those people to hell? because they chosed not to believe
something that they never saw evidence for?
I think it's because of the alternative view.
Some think of it as a religion, something that they believe in.
Just like other religions , those religions are there becaue people belive in
it.
So it's about the same with atheist , they believe no god.
Well, that's my opinion.
as for me I'd rather to have someone watchin over me than die not knowing where
to go in afterlife .
Hope this answer your question ^^
Calisqo: How can you know where you go when you die? They are words in a book
told be humans.. No proof, as no-one has ever come back from the dead to tell
us.
I think some of us don't belive in od...because there is no proof. I know a lot
of people that don't believe in god...but are nice persons...and lighting didn't
stroke them from above. My religion teacher asked me to give proof that god
doesn't exist...hoping that he'll block me...but I ask...is there a proof that
he exists? If we take the theory of evolution...than it can be proved doesn't
exist
Quote: How could something as
beautiful as Mt. Rainer be an accident of some kind?
In fact yes. I'm sorry but creation of
mountains are documented and backed by facts.
anyway afaik the bible or a bible was written by man right ?
I'm not getting in a fight who wrote it .. could be Moses, or some other
"Stephen King" of that time.
Now the problem I have with it .. It's written by man ..maybe edited a few times
by the catholics or some other group of happy campers. and they all claim it to
be the true word of GOD ..
Since we more or less agree it's written by a man ... a human. You can
reasonably assume it contains flaws.
For me personally i'm not going to bet my life my beliefs on something that some
dude has written 2000 years ago high up on a mountain.
Quote by HikutsuKyouAnd, I would ask
you this. what is it that makes you believe God? You should back up your
agument, and not just make us who don't believe in your religion defend
ourselves
It is theorized that 2/3 of the universe consists of an undetectable dark
matter. But becuase we posess no means of actually detecting this matter it
remains just a theory. And yet, scientist assumes that it does exist to account
for the lack of physical matter in the universe, as have I. Over one hundred
years ago, frustrated physists gave up trying to figure out how or why an a
single electron can be in many different places about an atom's orbitals at the
same time (the quantum leap I believe it was called). Finally it was this
premise that was finally accepted.....the electron quantum leaps because it
simple does.
Now what relivance does this have with the topic at hand. Well God's existence,
motives, and methods are beyond mankind ability to quantify, measure, graph,
chart, or record. similarly, God's motives and methods are beyond our ability to
comprehend (hence why we are frustarted with contradiction in the holy books
written....). To put is simply God just is.
Finally, the burden of proof is not only on the reiligious, it is also on the
atheist. You claim that relilgious are wrong in believing in a high power
because there is no concrete evidence to prove its existence. And yet, you
yourselves do not possess any hard evidence to prove that such high power does
not exist. So I re-iterate, the burden of proof is not only on us the religious,
but the aethiest as well.
So you say I should state why I don't believe in God? First, there are hundres
of religions out there, all just simple copies of each other. The belief of an
omni-present being, or entity commonly referred to as "God", was
crafted thousands of years ago by people who claimed they had witnessed or seen
things they could not describe. Hence, they created a being that could relieve
them of the lack of knowledge and by that, make it easier to live. The belief in
a God resieds in human instincts I believe. Since we cannot, in any way figure
out our purpose with life untilg we've lived it through, we create these beings
(Gods) which make it easier for us. There is no proof that a God does not exist.
There is, however, just as little evidence that it does. This is where personal
preference and faith steps in, and this is what makes the difference.
Let me delve a bit deeper into how I perceive the basics of religions:
Live a good life, be kind and you will get to heaven. When humans have a goal to
work towards, putting effort into their actions become easier than if they don't
know why they do it. Religion serves as a back-cover for those who believe in
it, and they feel comforted by praying the higher force to help them through
hardships. Reading the bible, they read about people in much harsher
environments who will not desert their believes for anything, and they feel
strengthened by the words that tell of people believing strongly so many years
ago. Knowing that they themselves are part of a "community" of
believers that is really big, they feel they belong somewhere and this makes it
easier in everyday life.
For me, I will never beg someone, or pray to someone, to fix my mistakes or
relieve me from my pain. I have had to do this myself so many times, I have come
to trust my own strength and know my own weaknesses to such an extent that I
have a firm ground of which I stand on.
But I think for many people, religion is a really good thing, and it's good that
it can help them.
But I dislike extremists, or religions that strip certain groups of believers of
their freedom and rights.
Answer:
1. He didn't say that you are possibly cleansed of sin if you believe in him. and it is right that it's hard to believe, as what i have seen from others, God, is not forcing anyone to keep all his orders. and you said it yourself, he loves everyone equally, so that's what fairness is.
2. no one really knows if he is gonna go to heaven or not. it depends upon the person itself... is he really willing to repent? is his repentance by his own free will? we all know that we can't prevent ourselves from sinning, it's a natural human instinct. God does not look on how many sins a person does, he looks in the heart. and he is mostly willing to forgive, as long as the person itself is willing to submit himself to the Lord.
3. this one is out of the reason.... if he really repents will all his heart, then why keep on killing all over and over again? if he really repented with all his heart, he meant that he was mostly gonna change himself. Why repent if you know you're gonna kill again? it doesn't make sense at all. those who repent with all their heart are willing to change, and can be changed by their faith.
4. apparently that one i cannot answer, if the child wasn't able to realize life as it was, it's no sin at all. he, who has done nothing, has nothing to be worried about. he has his own place, no one can say that he's gonna go to hell. it is very impossible don't you think so?
Where human belief mechanisms are concerned logic breaks down.
Has anyone around here read anything by Joseph Campbell?
nope, not particularly. Who's he?
About my answer in no. 5, i'll clear this one out, if so the baby dies... then god must have a purpose for him why he did it. another thing, those answers are according to what i believe in, so no contradicting please.
God's work isn't always something we can recognize immediately. It's not like a car's gonna start flying after it's fallen from a bridge, haha, but that'd be cool. And even if it did, people would attribute it to something else. But if you ask a believer, they would say that God has already given us everything we need, with the Bible and with Jesus. So is he still doing anything today? Yah, sure. It's just not in the way things were like in the past, with the ocean parting, or the staff becoming a snake.
Man has done a lot, but not without the help from God. He works within people, changing the people, or changing the situation. We see his works through Man. I think someone said in another thread, "You can't see the wind, but you can see the effects of the wind," or something to that note. Besides, why does one have to see something visually to believe in it spiritually?
I know it's just as easy to say that I'm automatically attributing all good things to God, because that's what I used to think about believers. I guess it just strikes me differently now.
hmm.... let's just say bout an opinion of a 16-yr.-old Believer ok? i think, it's because people are secluding themselves to God, or so, that's what i think, it's like.. he knocks on the door, but they don't let him in, it's just like that.
In my opinion, god and religion is really just there to keep people under control. It's like a shepherd making sure his sheep don't open their eyes and deciding to wander off and explore.
i feel, as an atheist, that I'm even stronger than most religious people because I deal with my problems myself. It's easy to give up and say "god wanted that" instead of rolling up your sleeves and fight back. It's easier to accept stuff becuase "god has a purpose for it" instead of questioning it and dealing with it. I don't have a religion or anything to back me up, but I do grow strong mentally by going through hard times and knowing that I will always have the power to make it through.
The world is not always fair and it's not always pretty. And sometimes, like with death, there's no reason to it or anybody to blame. It has nothing to do with religion and there's no justification for it, but it still happens. in times like that it's good to know that I'm independent and capable enough to make it through and look after myself and friends/family. Personally, I don't need a religion to find purpose or strength in my life. I can do that myself.
Response =p:
1) You say that He loves everyone fairly however if you compare a child living under Christian influence and one with Buddhist parents for example. The if you look at it on all accounts, the child living with Christian parents would have a higher likelihood of being "saved". Thus it shakes the foiundations of fairness as there is somewhat of a bias. It's not the child's decision what family he is born into.
2) Yet again this issue of fairness arises. He does repent with all of his heart and so according to you he would go to Heaven. But he initially needed some form of "motivation" to undergo this repentence, this being his looming death. But it's unfair to the Aethist who dies suddenly, and so lacks the oppurtunity to see his life flash before his eyes. Who knows? He might have done the same thing as the sick person if given the oppurtunity and be saved as well.
3) Well say the man can't help it. Remember he does have a psychotic madness that makes him very angry. He can't help controlling his emotions, though he himself is truly sorry. What would stop him from blaming God for is state? Yet again it apears quite bias for some.
4) Then where would the baby go? It is said that all people are born into Sin. The Bible itself says that. In theory the baby would go to Hell, for having lack of repentence for his Sins. Yet again somewhat unfair that a baby without oppurtunity to repent is sentenced to an enternity of suffering.
Yaaaay finally done. Fingers sore.
Edit~~ Awww no debate...
Ok
lolz dw ^^ I respect your opinions. =]
Hahaha, I like how everytime I post a reply, it's on the next page, nowhere near the post to which I'm trying to respond.
I lack a belief in entities that people generally refer to as god or gods. In that case, I am an Atheist (according to the "weak" definition of "atheism"). As far as I know, I have not encountered a god claim that I find is worthy of assent.
Different animals behave in different ways. The "bunch of evolution mumbo-jumbo" teaches that people behave like humans.
Purpose can come from anyone or anything. The same object can have different purposes to different people or to the same person at different times. If you want to do something with your life, then your life has purpose.
As for questions such as "What is your divinely-dictated purpose of your existence," well, I have not encountered such a purpose claim that I find is worthy of assent.
Good post.
There is also the Big Bang Theory (beginning of the universe) and a theory of abiogenesis (beginning of life on Earth).
Some people lump all of those theories together as "Evolution." That drives the astronomers who can't stand biology, and the biologists who can't stand physics, nuts.
Just because people are religious (a dangerous term, honestly) doesn't mean that their weaker than someone else, or that they don't question why something happened. Religion doesn't make them weak that they have to just let everything happen. The tsunami is a good example; Christians (at least where I am) are donating tons of money for supplies and stuff to send over there. we aren't cowering in a corner, saying "Oh, God must have a plan, so we'd better not interfere." No, we're active, coming together in order to help those who are in need of it. Of course, nonreligious people are also helping...I'm not trying to say otherwise. Anyway...that's all I have to say for now. Please, no one take anything I say personally...I just tend to get going (as happened earlier). It's late now, and I have some tests tomorrow; please, if anyone wants to talk to me further, go to my member page and leave me a note or something so I'll know to come back or talk to that person. Oh ya, sorry, Alastor9m, but I think I took too long to try and answer. I still will if you drop a line on my page.
Since his writings are too extensive to post here, go to: http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/campb.htm
There is also a Joseph Campbell Foundation
A little knowledge never hurt anyone...
well it's not that i'm pure atheist, more like agnostic, but yeah you know god only exists as long as someone believe in him, that's our power, to make our dreams come true...
plus i think humans don't need a god to help them, they should take up their destiny and figth for life... i respect those who believe, i think the books of religion (bible, coran etc...) are great for the time they were written in, it was made to avoir diseases (washing your feets because it was one of the greatest source of infection....), to help structure a real human community........
the problem is that ppl refuse to make those precepts evolve along with the situation, and that is sooo stupid !! anyway, the messages that religion give is also a pure common sense stuff, "love each other", "do not kill" etc.......... yeah it's true, but that does not mean there's necessarily a god.... i mean it's great someone said that, but ppl should do it without being guided, i think that's the point of religion : allowing ppl to get rid of it when they incorporated everything good there was in it
The question is somewhat vague, not believing God doesn't mean you don't understand God, is like asking what vegetarian don't understand about meat. Some people just don't like meat while others have strong belief about not killing animals for food. So at the end, it is a choice that people make, they aren't missing something in their understanding of the things they oppose.
Atheism isn't belief in nothing. That would be nihilism. Atheism is lack of belief in God or some higher power.
What don't I understand about God. I don't understand why such a God would allow people to kill and torture in His name. I don't understand why a perfectly virtuous Buddhist man will go to Hell, while a serial killer will go to Heaven if he submits himself to the Lord. I don't understand why there is sin or Hell at all. Most of all, I don't understand why a supposedly benevolent and omnipotent God would allow such injustice and hate in the world.
I am not familiar with the Bible in any scholarly sense. I know some of the stories, such as God creating the earth and life on it in 6 days, and common knowledge things like that. From what I've heard, doesn't a strict interpretation of the Bible also leads to the conclusion that the earth is, what, 6000 years old? What, if any, evidence is there of that?
If we accept that the creatures described in the Bible are dinosaurs, then we also accept that dinosaurs lived at the same time as humans, and there is no evidence of that at all. Carbon dating can be inaccurate, but to be off by many millions of years is pushing it just a bit. Furthermore, carbon isn't the only method of dating used; the age of rocks and the earth has been verified using several different methods.
If God wants all people to be with Him in Heaven, why doesn't He make it so? He's omnipotent, is He not? Why doesn't He erase the beast from existence? Why would he create humans with the potential for, and even the preference for, sin?
The formation of the natural world is anything but an accident. There are many, many factors that affect natural wonders such as mountains. The wind and erosion, the movement of tectonic plates, rain and snow, etc etc. Further, there is quite often logic behind how the world works, even if it seems random. Leaves growing on flower stalks arrange themselves to maximize the sunlight that reaches them. Mathematical patterns can be observed in things like pine cones and sunflowers.
God is all-seeing, all-knowing, and all-powerful, right? God is perfect and omnipotent. Did God forsee Lucifer's rebellion? If so, why didn't He just erase all thought of rebellion from Lucifer? Or simply erase Lucifer and the rebelling angels from existence?
I believe that it is impossible to verify or disprove the existence of God; His very nature makes it so. I personally do not believe in God, but I have no problem with people who do. That said, I apologize if I have offended anybody with my post. Also, I apologize to CLAMPchic because it looks like I'm singling you out. I'm not; your posts are just the longest ones and the easiest ones to quote.
Well, whether I'm an atheist or not I don't know, but I can probably contribute with my thoughts as well.
I don't belive in a God, nor do I completely render it impossible for a higher force to exist. However, up until now the only thing I can really trust on is myself. No God or praying has ever helped me, but what has is my own strength. I like to live MY life the way I want it to be, and therefore I craft my own dreams and my own future. I live because life is a lesson, and I like to learn it.
I also dislike religions like christianity and the likes because of the way it has been exploited over the years to do terrible things. I think believing too strongly is self destructive, and I've seen people fall because of their believes..
actually, science believes that we evolved from one creature, man, apes and monkies that is. Therefore, that would explain the DNA thing.
yes, it hasnt allways been perfect, but I dont recall any time when its been off by millions of years.
but why does he send those people to hell? because they chosed not to believe something that they never saw evidence for?
I think it's because of the alternative view.
Some think of it as a religion, something that they believe in.
Just like other religions , those religions are there becaue people belive in it.
So it's about the same with atheist , they believe no god.
Well, that's my opinion.
as for me I'd rather to have someone watchin over me than die not knowing where to go in afterlife .
Hope this answer your question ^^
Calisqo: How can you know where you go when you die? They are words in a book told be humans.. No proof, as no-one has ever come back from the dead to tell us.
I think some of us don't belive in od...because there is no proof. I know a lot of people that don't believe in god...but are nice persons...and lighting didn't stroke them from above. My religion teacher asked me to give proof that god doesn't exist...hoping that he'll block me...but I ask...is there a proof that he exists? If we take the theory of evolution...than it can be proved doesn't exist
In fact yes. I'm sorry but creation of mountains are documented and backed by facts.
anyway afaik the bible or a bible was written by man right ?
I'm not getting in a fight who wrote it .. could be Moses, or some other "Stephen King" of that time.
Now the problem I have with it .. It's written by man ..maybe edited a few times by the catholics or some other group of happy campers. and they all claim it to be the true word of GOD ..
Since we more or less agree it's written by a man ... a human. You can reasonably assume it contains flaws.
For me personally i'm not going to bet my life my beliefs on something that some dude has written 2000 years ago high up on a mountain.
If you want to ... fine.
Ditto Taurec
you are perfectly wright Taurec
It is theorized that 2/3 of the universe consists of an undetectable dark matter. But becuase we posess no means of actually detecting this matter it remains just a theory. And yet, scientist assumes that it does exist to account for the lack of physical matter in the universe, as have I. Over one hundred years ago, frustrated physists gave up trying to figure out how or why an a single electron can be in many different places about an atom's orbitals at the same time (the quantum leap I believe it was called). Finally it was this premise that was finally accepted.....the electron quantum leaps because it simple does.
Now what relivance does this have with the topic at hand. Well God's existence, motives, and methods are beyond mankind ability to quantify, measure, graph, chart, or record. similarly, God's motives and methods are beyond our ability to comprehend (hence why we are frustarted with contradiction in the holy books written....). To put is simply God just is.
Finally, the burden of proof is not only on the reiligious, it is also on the atheist. You claim that relilgious are wrong in believing in a high power because there is no concrete evidence to prove its existence. And yet, you yourselves do not possess any hard evidence to prove that such high power does not exist. So I re-iterate, the burden of proof is not only on us the religious, but the aethiest as well.
So you say I should state why I don't believe in God? First, there are hundres of religions out there, all just simple copies of each other. The belief of an omni-present being, or entity commonly referred to as "God", was crafted thousands of years ago by people who claimed they had witnessed or seen things they could not describe. Hence, they created a being that could relieve them of the lack of knowledge and by that, make it easier to live. The belief in a God resieds in human instincts I believe. Since we cannot, in any way figure out our purpose with life untilg we've lived it through, we create these beings (Gods) which make it easier for us. There is no proof that a God does not exist. There is, however, just as little evidence that it does. This is where personal preference and faith steps in, and this is what makes the difference.
Let me delve a bit deeper into how I perceive the basics of religions:
Live a good life, be kind and you will get to heaven. When humans have a goal to work towards, putting effort into their actions become easier than if they don't know why they do it. Religion serves as a back-cover for those who believe in it, and they feel comforted by praying the higher force to help them through hardships. Reading the bible, they read about people in much harsher environments who will not desert their believes for anything, and they feel strengthened by the words that tell of people believing strongly so many years ago. Knowing that they themselves are part of a "community" of believers that is really big, they feel they belong somewhere and this makes it easier in everyday life.
For me, I will never beg someone, or pray to someone, to fix my mistakes or relieve me from my pain. I have had to do this myself so many times, I have come to trust my own strength and know my own weaknesses to such an extent that I have a firm ground of which I stand on.
But I think for many people, religion is a really good thing, and it's good that it can help them.
But I dislike extremists, or religions that strip certain groups of believers of their freedom and rights.
Long post eh? Hope someone cares to read it..