*pokes self in eyes* OW! Okay, apparently I at least exist here in the physical
world. Hmm... Good thing I checked, huh? God, I hope this isn't the Matrix. I
didn't even bother seeing the last movie...
existing and true origin of existence is two diffrent things. But one thing you
should seek before finding out if we do exist is the actual definition of
existence... without that, it is almost imposible to determine if you exist or
not. For example. If i have never seen something, i do not know of it.. so for
me it dosent exist. But not knowing about it does not necisarily mean it dosent
exist. If i never visited minitokyo and never talked to you, does that mean you
dont exist? no.. of course not.. for me, i would never known of your existance.
It really gets kinda deep afterwards though.. so we changing topics to the
origin of existance now?
Totally up to you guys. I was just trying to throw out ideas.
You're right though, it's a different topic. ...Take it whichever direction you
desire.. - Do with it what you will!
Yes, hrmm...The only time it will approach infinity is when: 1) population
increases at a faster rate; or 2) the volume approaches zero. The second item is
out of the question and the first left a loophole. What can we do about
it?
Another theory states that as time progresses, a force called
"anti-gravity" increases as the gravitational force between celestial
bodies decrease (because of expansion). Assumption 4: The volume approaches
infinity at an ever increasing rate.
Eventually this rate will exceed that of population which leads to Assumption 5: That volume approaches infinity
faster. Conclusion: Population<<Volume and
P/V approaches 0 with Time. No one exists.
Either way, glad you took time to read that little Math game. I hope you realize
that what I'm trying to point out is that the math we just did isn't enough to
prove that we do/don't exist and that Math, just like every other formal
knowledge like Logic, can be twisted to suit our needs. It's not as stable as
one might think.
Quote by mikl1976One must exist to
error.
So, if i am wrong in this, i must exist
and if i am right, i do exist
Either way, I exist.
uhm... there's a contradiction in your statement since wither you exist or you
dont exist. if you are wrong, then you exist, thus you're right since you exit,
contradicting your first proposition. if you are correct, then you dont exits
and if you dont exit, then you cant be wrinting that ^_^! contradiction
again
Quote by Revueeither way glad took time
read little game i hope you realize what= i'm trying point out is= the did isn't
enough prove we do/don't exist and that math just every other formal knowledge
like logic can be twisted to suit our needs it's not stable as one might
think
definitively, you can't base your conclusions only to formal math, but it is
indeed a very powerful tool to see if what u think is at least, correct (not
necessarily true)
ok and here is real answer YOU DONT exist
do you exist when you sleep ?
then you dont think you dont know you exist you only exist when you think so you
cant prove that you exist when you dont think existion is only when you think so
it is not stable and such a force as existance dont exist you
are only in a same kind of reality where you know that you ARE a thats all.Can
you imagine that everytime you wake up new reality is created .It is like
starting CPU and you are just processor.If we look in the big picture at us we
are only atoms in sth much bigger so why you think on sth like existance?
Quote by onix888ok and here is real
answer YOU DONT exist do you exist when you sleep ?
then you dont think you dont know you exist you only exist when you
think so you cant prove that you exist when you dont think existion is
only when you think so it is not stable and such a force as existance
dont exist you are only in a same kind of reality where you know
that you ARE a thats all.Can you imagine that everytime you wake up new
reality is created .It is like starting CPU and you are just
processor.If we look in the big picture at us we are only atoms in sth
much bigger so why you think on sth like existance?
well, actually you are thinking while sleeping, except that you are not able to
reason. animals can think, but they do not reason so Mr Descartes rule still is
valid and correct ^^
Using Descartes rule I can only prove that my mind or "spirit" exists.
All senses can be decieved. Thus I have no way of verifying anything that I see,
hear, touch, smell, or taste is real. Therefore the only thing that I can
believe is my own mind. However, without input my mind is worthless. Thus I
cannot prove anything other than I think, therefore I think.
I gotta find the proof that death is greater than life and two pies.
this is very interesting, on one hand my life is one disaster after the next and
i am by no means abnormal physically or mentally and to top it all off i hav a
very clumsy way of doing things. But on the other hand i have always been that
way and i guess that the only way to truely prove if i exist is to kill myself
and find out...but what if im wrong
Quote by mikl1976One must exist to
error. So, if i am wrong in this, i
must exist
and if i am right, i do exist
Either way, I exist.
uhm... there's a contradiction in your statement since wither you exist
or you dont exist. if you are wrong, then you exist, thus you're right
since you exit, contradicting your first proposition. if you are
correct, then you dont exits and if you dont exit, then you cant be
wrinting that ^_^! contradiction again
lol from my point of view, considering his proposition, he does exist....
he made that contradiction, which is equal to an error.... so he errored,
therefore he exists
if his proposition was correct, he wouldn't be existing
oh my god I'm going nuts... somebody help me
Oooh metaphysics, fun! Personally, I don't like Kant (in reference to swpigwang)
because he nullifies the human aspect of everything, relying heavily upon
'absolutes' and 'duty'. Ehm, back on topic! I see 'knowledge' is thrown around a
lot here, but let's remember, Skepticism states that there is no such thing as
true knowledge, that it is impossible for anything at all to be known. That in
itself says that we cannot know if we exist. There's so much more to say, but,
it's easier said (in a literal sense).
Nice change of pace in the forums though!
Oh, and I suggest reading up on Zen Buddhism, a very good read. "Zen
Buddhism: Selected Writings of D.T. Suzuki" is excellent.
Quote by KorganoSlol from my point of
view, considering his proposition, he does exist....
he made that contradiction, which is equal to an error.... so he errored,
therefore he exists
if his proposition was correct, he wouldn't be existing
oh my god I'm going nuts... somebody help me
>.<
mmmm, as far as i rememeber, a contradiction is not necessarily an error. You
can prove statements by contradiction to prove (sorry about the renundancy)
something true or false.
an error would be more like misjudging a statement or maybe adding instead of
multipying.
Quote by ultimashowerSkepticism
states that there is no such thing as true knowledge, that it is
impossible for anything at all to be known. That in itself says that we
cannot know if we exist. There's so much more to say, but, it's easier
said (in a literal sense).
True true, so true - but then you cant go in life just saying that you know
nothing because in the end, you do know
something; the difference here is that you will never know everything.
The answer is obvious unless you are asking wheither or not other people exist
only in your perception. People can verify their own existence but wheither or
not everyone other than them actually exists is up to you to believe. (The
Matrix really screwed up peoples perception of reality). Flip a coin, that is
how I decided
Palin88 and Ghaleon, our existence cannot be reliant on the flip of a coin. What
are you going to say to people if the coin flip goes against your bet? Will you
tell people that you don't exist? Other people, especially young people, are
going to say "What in hell are you talking about, saying that you don't
exist? You probably have no life anyway". They'll think you're crazy. The
old people will give you a story about existence (since most think they know
everything), but they will probably stray to how they keep their teeth clean (if
they have teeth and not dentures).
The only thing that allows us to exist is perception. We have the minds to
perceive. The matter of existing is an intricate one, but some people make
existence sound so easy.
Then again, maybe we were chosen to exist. We live in an infinite continuum.
Existence for all of us could've been a lot different. Think about it.
well... i really dont care about what those philosophers said... i think whats
important is that you make you existence meaningful... too much thinking will
prove nothing.. doing something will prove something....
How can you be sure your existance is meaningful? Can you be certain you're
nothing more than someone dreaming that they're doing something meaningful in a
goop-filled tube that powers machines or somesuch?
for some reason the meaning of the universe is a very unabtanible thing.
Therefore we can never know the true meaning of our existance.. it is up to each
one of us to decide what the meaning of our existance is.. and in doing so we
are fulfilling our existance.
Here is a very simplified reason why i exist.
One must exist to error.
So, if i am wrong in this, i must exist
and if i am right, i do exist
Either way, I exist.
Nice mikl1976. Lot's of nice thoughts from everyone. I liked your post swpigwang as well.
So assuming we believe we exist.... How can we be sure if we cannot verify or explain our true origin?
*pokes self in eyes* OW! Okay, apparently I at least exist here in the physical world. Hmm... Good thing I checked, huh? God, I hope this isn't the Matrix. I didn't even bother seeing the last movie...
existing and true origin of existence is two diffrent things. But one thing you should seek before finding out if we do exist is the actual definition of existence... without that, it is almost imposible to determine if you exist or not. For example. If i have never seen something, i do not know of it.. so for me it dosent exist. But not knowing about it does not necisarily mean it dosent exist. If i never visited minitokyo and never talked to you, does that mean you dont exist? no.. of course not.. for me, i would never known of your existance. It really gets kinda deep afterwards though.. so we changing topics to the origin of existance now?
Totally up to you guys. I was just trying to throw out ideas.
You're right though, it's a different topic. ...Take it whichever direction you
desire.. - Do with it what you will! 
Yes, hrmm...The only time it will approach infinity is when: 1) population increases at a faster rate; or 2) the volume approaches zero. The second item is out of the question and the first left a loophole. What can we do about it?
Another theory states that as time progresses, a force called "anti-gravity" increases as the gravitational force between celestial bodies decrease (because of expansion).
Assumption 4: The volume approaches infinity at an ever increasing rate.
Eventually this rate will exceed that of population which leads to Assumption 5: That volume approaches infinity faster.
Conclusion: Population<<Volume and P/V approaches 0 with Time. No one exists.
Either way, glad you took time to read that little Math game. I hope you realize that what I'm trying to point out is that the math we just did isn't enough to prove that we do/don't exist and that Math, just like every other formal knowledge like Logic, can be twisted to suit our needs. It's not as stable as one might think.
uhm... there's a contradiction in your statement since wither you exist or you dont exist. if you are wrong, then you exist, thus you're right since you exit, contradicting your first proposition. if you are correct, then you dont exits and if you dont exit, then you cant be wrinting that ^_^! contradiction again
definitively, you can't base your conclusions only to formal math, but it is indeed a very powerful tool to see if what u think is at least, correct (not necessarily true)
ok and here is real answer YOU DONT exist
you
are only in a same kind of reality where you know that you ARE a thats all.Can
you imagine that everytime you wake up new reality is created .It is like
starting CPU and you are just processor.If we look in the big picture at us we
are only atoms in sth much bigger so why you think on sth like existance?
do you exist when you sleep ?
then you dont think you dont know you exist you only exist when you think so you cant prove that you exist when you dont think existion is only when you think so it is not stable and such a force as existance dont exist
well, actually you are thinking while sleeping, except that you are not able to reason. animals can think, but they do not reason so Mr Descartes rule still is valid and correct ^^
Using Descartes rule I can only prove that my mind or "spirit" exists. All senses can be decieved. Thus I have no way of verifying anything that I see, hear, touch, smell, or taste is real. Therefore the only thing that I can believe is my own mind. However, without input my mind is worthless. Thus I cannot prove anything other than I think, therefore I think.
I gotta find the proof that death is greater than life and two pies.
this is very interesting, on one hand my life is one disaster after the next and i am by no means abnormal physically or mentally and to top it all off i hav a very clumsy way of doing things. But on the other hand i have always been that way and i guess that the only way to truely prove if i exist is to kill myself and find out...but what if im wrong
lol from my point of view, considering his proposition, he does exist....
he made that contradiction, which is equal to an error.... so he errored, therefore he exists
if his proposition was correct, he wouldn't be existing
oh my god I'm going nuts... somebody help me
It is perception that allows us to exist. If we do not have the ability to perceive, then existence is meaningless.
Oooh metaphysics, fun! Personally, I don't like Kant (in reference to swpigwang) because he nullifies the human aspect of everything, relying heavily upon 'absolutes' and 'duty'. Ehm, back on topic! I see 'knowledge' is thrown around a lot here, but let's remember, Skepticism states that there is no such thing as true knowledge, that it is impossible for anything at all to be known. That in itself says that we cannot know if we exist. There's so much more to say, but, it's easier said (in a literal sense).
Nice change of pace in the forums though!
Oh, and I suggest reading up on Zen Buddhism, a very good read. "Zen Buddhism: Selected Writings of D.T. Suzuki" is excellent.
mmmm, as far as i rememeber, a contradiction is not necessarily an error. You can prove statements by contradiction to prove (sorry about the renundancy) something true or false.
an error would be more like misjudging a statement or maybe adding instead of multipying.
True true, so true - but then you cant go in life just saying that you know nothing because in the end, you do know something; the difference here is that you will never know everything.
The answer is obvious unless you are asking wheither or not other people exist only in your perception. People can verify their own existence but wheither or not everyone other than them actually exists is up to you to believe. (The Matrix really screwed up peoples perception of reality). Flip a coin, that is how I decided
Hmm, which side won? I'd be kinda depressed if it turns out I don't exist because it came up heads.
lolz u guys are thinkin too much,honestly,just take it easy and pray dat u live tomorow.
Palin88 and Ghaleon, our existence cannot be reliant on the flip of a coin. What are you going to say to people if the coin flip goes against your bet? Will you tell people that you don't exist? Other people, especially young people, are going to say "What in hell are you talking about, saying that you don't exist? You probably have no life anyway". They'll think you're crazy. The old people will give you a story about existence (since most think they know everything), but they will probably stray to how they keep their teeth clean (if they have teeth and not dentures).
The only thing that allows us to exist is perception. We have the minds to perceive. The matter of existing is an intricate one, but some people make existence sound so easy.
Then again, maybe we were chosen to exist. We live in an infinite continuum. Existence for all of us could've been a lot different. Think about it.
well... i really dont care about what those philosophers said... i think whats important is that you make you existence meaningful... too much thinking will prove nothing.. doing something will prove something....
How can you be sure your existance is meaningful? Can you be certain you're nothing more than someone dreaming that they're doing something meaningful in a goop-filled tube that powers machines or somesuch?
for some reason the meaning of the universe is a very unabtanible thing. Therefore we can never know the true meaning of our existance.. it is up to each one of us to decide what the meaning of our existance is.. and in doing so we are fulfilling our existance.
I Belive that your belief is your own reality
so....
if you belive that you exist then to you, you really do exist
well *looks at myself* i think i exist, i am alive arent i?