Regarding doujin highlights. Seems that all 9 Highlight slots can go to any type
of art. Then why not allocate 3 highlight slots to wallpapers, 3 to doujins and
the other 3 to something else other than the abovementioned two.
Personally I find 9 highlight slots to be a bit too many though.
Well thanks for listening and acting quickly, I hope this fixes most of the
problem. I know nothing will ever be perfect since Art is indeed very
subjective, but the system will surely be improved like this.
regarding the last reply:
I do not agree. 3 places for doujins is correct, but a third of the highlights
reserved to something else? What is that
something else? Scans? No no. We just agreed on probably not highlighting
vectors either. What else then?
vectors do take a significant amount of time to make, now how do you actually
agree on not placing at least one spot for it?
although i agree on general basis, it is rather just a cleanup of the scan.
But artist like Minnakomel-san, spent a generous effort in making vectors and
high quality ones as well, so how do you judge it as less than art since
claiming art is subjective.
Quote: I do not agree. 3 places for
doujins is correct, but a third of the highlights reserved to something else?
What is that something else? Scans? No no. We just agreed on probably not
highlighting vectors either. What else then?
Who knows. Original art maybe? Or abstract (they are among the highlighted, I
noticed). You guys decide. Personally, I would have prefererred to have doujins
and wallpapers highlighted only but then, had I said so, someone else might make
more noise. Hence, the additional last 3 slots which can be defined later.
we are actually working on a new highlighting system to make it fair for all
members, please be patient and thank you for your suggestions and mature
debates- it makes us clearly see your situation and problems as well as our own
to make MT a better community
I'm truly happy this thread was taken seriously and not as any usual rant.
Brigning up negative points to ameliorate Mt is something everyone should think
about more often
anyways, about the vectors: My answer is never highlight vectors that only reCG an image, even if it takes
long and hard work. The only reason is that it could never be called art. Now I
know art is subjective but I think everyone can agree with this defenition:
the expression or application of human creative
skill and imagination. However vectoring a scan without altering it's
original looks is not creative one bit. Of course you can make art by vectoring
when you create something new.
Vectors dont do anything other than waste time for the person making it. What's
the point of creating a vector if you arnt going to do anything with it. Trust
me, it is NOT a viable solution for recg, there are wayy more techniques to be
used that can produce wayy better/more natural results.
The only reason vectors should be used are if the entire wallpaper is vectored,
but the BG has to be original not just a remake of the scan's.
You show no originallity or creative genious whatsoever when u just simply take
something and vector on top of it. It's pretty much the equivilent of taking a
picture and tracing it... and what does it prove other than you can use the pen
tool and follow the lines. =/
I wouldn't agree with you that vectors aren't art. Any change made to the
original is art as it is the expression or
application of human creative skill and imagination. Vectoring falls
definitely into art category, since even the thought of vectoring an image and
doing it is the application of the theory above.
The best example is Andy Warhol. Think about his Marylin Monroe series or the
Campbell's soup. Would anyone disagree with the statement that his works are
art?
Also the point of discussing the highlights reminds me of 'friendlist whoring'
discussion before. I have some talented people on my watchlist and the fact that
their work gets favoured by me is nothing uncommon. This, on the other hand,
does not mean that I do not appreciate and fave other people's work. I often
look at the favourites on userpages and I always look closely both at the
highlighted section and the recently favoured section. My watchlist grows every
week. And I am very grateful for both sections, as due to the lack of time to
browse freely, I could have missed some great works.
In the end it all comes to people's tastes, liking or not liking something...
Quote by markjoI wouldn't agree with you
that vectors aren't art. Any change made to the original is art as it is the expression or application of human creative skill
and imagination. Vectoring falls definitely into art category, since even
the thought of vectoring an image and doing it is the application of the theory
above.
So, if I follow this definition, then taking a picture and trying to redraw it
as close to the original as possible (which is a similar process to vectoring)
would also be art? YAY! and here I was almost afraid most of my drawings
couldn't be considered an art, when I actually spend hours on all of them...
just wondering...
about the highlights, the popular art section: good idea... but the highlight
section: I still find doujinshis very rare on it, but i guess that's really just
me... but couldn't there be a spot reserved for a doujin or
something? ok, me asking again
actually through what has been suggested, Ayamael has a point, it is similiar to
copy skills, a doujin for example is art, we see the basic idea behind a doujin
is an artist attempting to make a copy of the original artists work, albeit with
different story.
and the above definition clearly contradicts with this in a sense that, if you
do not think that cleaning a vector image as art, then that means art is not
inclusive of the thought of beautifying an image or object of artistic
impression as a representation of an artistic statement, hence, in
contradiction, an artwork is not an art if you do not make it original. (as in
drawing it)
w00t was referring to the tracing type of vectors. It's like taking a pic, place
a paper over it and then trace (either only the character, or together with the
background).
It's just copying unless the background is your own.
i see...oh well, there is no point crying over spilt milk, i think now that the
system has been decided, it will be no point to argue further. If it was up to
me, a decent good and hard effort tracing job does deserve a highlight, but i
suggest of course at a limited time. maybe a week.
Quote by Devildude i think now that the
system has been decided, it will be no point to argue
further.
it should be the exact contrary. It isn't because rules already exist that we
should not question them, that they be new or old. Now I agree the new system is
much more decent, but that won't stop me from pointing out the negative issues
none the less. An interesting crittique should always be welcomed, no matter
what.
Quote by Devildude If it was up to me,
a decent good and hard effort tracing job does deserve a highlight, but i
suggest of course at a limited time. maybe a week.
I don't believe so. Allthough it is more than true that tracing is a long
process and the members that achieve tracing gracefully scans should be
aknowledged, the highlight is not their place. After all, MiniTokyo is supposed
to be an ART community. Tracing is hard work, but not art. Just as
reconstituting 2 pages spread scans can be long, we don't highlight the members
that do take their time to do it.
merged: 12-09-2005 ~ 10:24am
Since the new changes the highlights have indeed been chosen with more care and
I appreciate that. But there still are major problems with the system I believe,
and it should not be left for granted now that it has changed.
I'm brigning a new argument on the table.
I've been browsing a lot the general wallpapers recently due to the fact that my
last walls were indeed in this category. Surprisingly I realised that 5 out of
the 6 presently highilghted wallpapers were proposed by Sheqel. Now of course
they were highlighted by biri since she is the only moderator of that section.
But proposing is offered to every Elite member and moderator if I am correct,
and that is more than one person. The funny thing is that Sheqel is the admin of
this site. Now would that mean that because HE proposed the wallpapers the
moderator felt obligated to choose them? now isn't that questionnable!
This is certainly an issue to be taken seriously
Quote by candy-chanI've been browsing
a lot the general wallpapers recently due to the fact that my last walls were
indeed in this category. Surprisingly I realised that 5 out of the 6 presently
highilghted wallpapers were proposed by Sheqel. Now of course they were
highlighted by biri since she is the only moderator of that section. But
proposing is offered to every Elite member and moderator if I am correct, and
that is more than one person. The funny thing is that Sheqel is the admin of
this site. Now would that mean that because HE proposed the wallpapers the
moderator felt obligated to choose them? now isn't that questionnable!
Just because Sheqel proposed an item for highlighting
doesn't mean that moderators are obligated to highlight the item. When it comes
to highlighting, even though Sheqel is the Big Cheese, we're certainly free to
decide for ourselves whether we believe that a submission is worthy of
highlighting regardless of his view on the matter.
Honestly, Sheqel is a really nice and reasonable guy. Though he is our boss, he
certainly is not a tyrant who would dictate to us what to do or think
I never said the contrary. I was only noting the fact that 5/6 walls were
proposed by him when there are more than 20 "powered" members,
counting the elites. By all means I was not attacking Sheqel in particular, but
more the fact that diversity in the proposer names is lacking
A proposer can propose many but only one can be chosen for highlights. The other
slots should go to choices from other proposers as well.
Each person has his likes and dislikes. Some might like grunge more while others
prefer vectored walls. So, by highlighting from multiple proposers, there can be
diversity in the Highlighted section, don't you think?
Alternatively, should be a limit on how many a person can propose too.
One last thing,
Oh the highlights stay on way too long, MT is a huge community with tons of new
arrivals each day and the stuff get highlighted once a week, it's not enough to
keep with the pace
Minitokyo needs one highlighted submission a day, atleast. It is ridiculous to
have the same 6 pieces up on the front page for a month, there are way too many
high quality wallpapers on this website. I know that the highlights were updated
recently, too, but it is bound to happen again when no one on the staff has a
pace for updating it, but just do it whenever they want to.
i do suggest however, that when highlighting, adequate reason and a good and in
depth comment be left on it, otherwise, comments such as this one:
Quoted from a highlighted item:
Chosen by shyxsakura and biriwilg
The clean, popping vector work and kooky perspective add a breezy feel to this
simple desktop candy. Feeling summery already?
Proposed by shyxsakura and highlighted by biriwilg.
end quote.
I am not saying anything about the artwork at hand, since it was your submission
Candy-chan, but the reason...it is just like saying "Nice wallz, yay,
highlight!"
As for the updating, I suggest at least once every 4 days or so, I agree that it
stays on too long.
I am sorry for bumping a thread after 5 weeks old, but am simply stating a view.
They have too few active moderators doing Highlights and have so many Highlight
slots. THey're spreading themselves thin, making it a very neglected feature.
and lying about who proposes and highlights isn't helping the situation. Right
now not only more than half of the wallpapers highlighted DO NOT deserve their
place at all, but the highlighting almost seems to be done randomly with no
effort.
4 of the 6 walls have LESS than 2 lines of text explaining the choice. I'm sorry
but
"stylishly beautiful.
everything about this wall is beautiful and mellowized <3"
DOES NOT show any sign of preoccupation.
And where are the doujins?
Quote: this has got to be (waller's
name) best work yet plus this wall is just great in it's own way. a lot of
thought was put into this, so for that much love <333
Quote: shades of
black+white+red+vectoring=fantasticly uberliciously great wall made by(waller's
name)
At least it's good for laughs though. Someone might want to compile all the
Highlighted justifications for its humorous quality though.
One even created a new word, "widescreenal"...ROFL!
Regarding doujin highlights. Seems that all 9 Highlight slots can go to any type of art. Then why not allocate 3 highlight slots to wallpapers, 3 to doujins and the other 3 to something else other than the abovementioned two.
Personally I find 9 highlight slots to be a bit too many though.
Well thanks for listening and acting quickly, I hope this fixes most of the problem. I know nothing will ever be perfect since Art is indeed very subjective, but the system will surely be improved like this.
regarding the last reply:
I do not agree. 3 places for doujins is correct, but a third of the highlights reserved to something else? What is that something else? Scans? No no. We just agreed on probably not highlighting vectors either. What else then?
vectors do take a significant amount of time to make, now how do you actually agree on not placing at least one spot for it?
although i agree on general basis, it is rather just a cleanup of the scan.
But artist like Minnakomel-san, spent a generous effort in making vectors and high quality ones as well, so how do you judge it as less than art since claiming art is subjective.
Who knows. Original art maybe? Or abstract (they are among the highlighted, I noticed). You guys decide. Personally, I would have prefererred to have doujins and wallpapers highlighted only but then, had I said so, someone else might make more noise. Hence, the additional last 3 slots which can be defined later.
we are actually working on a new highlighting system to make it fair for all members, please be patient and thank you for your suggestions and mature debates- it makes us clearly see your situation and problems as well as our own to make MT a better community
I'm truly happy this thread was taken seriously and not as any usual rant. Brigning up negative points to ameliorate Mt is something everyone should think about more often
anyways, about the vectors: My answer is never highlight vectors that only reCG an image, even if it takes long and hard work. The only reason is that it could never be called art. Now I know art is subjective but I think everyone can agree with this defenition: the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination. However vectoring a scan without altering it's original looks is not creative one bit. Of course you can make art by vectoring when you create something new.
Vectors dont do anything other than waste time for the person making it. What's the point of creating a vector if you arnt going to do anything with it. Trust me, it is NOT a viable solution for recg, there are wayy more techniques to be used that can produce wayy better/more natural results.
The only reason vectors should be used are if the entire wallpaper is vectored, but the BG has to be original not just a remake of the scan's.
You show no originallity or creative genious whatsoever when u just simply take something and vector on top of it. It's pretty much the equivilent of taking a picture and tracing it... and what does it prove other than you can use the pen tool and follow the lines. =/
I wouldn't agree with you that vectors aren't art. Any change made to the original is art as it is the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination. Vectoring falls definitely into art category, since even the thought of vectoring an image and doing it is the application of the theory above.
The best example is Andy Warhol. Think about his Marylin Monroe series or the Campbell's soup. Would anyone disagree with the statement that his works are art?
Also the point of discussing the highlights reminds me of 'friendlist whoring' discussion before. I have some talented people on my watchlist and the fact that their work gets favoured by me is nothing uncommon. This, on the other hand, does not mean that I do not appreciate and fave other people's work. I often look at the favourites on userpages and I always look closely both at the highlighted section and the recently favoured section. My watchlist grows every week. And I am very grateful for both sections, as due to the lack of time to browse freely, I could have missed some great works.
In the end it all comes to people's tastes, liking or not liking something...
So, if I follow this definition, then taking a picture and trying to redraw it as close to the original as possible (which is a similar process to vectoring) would also be art? YAY! and here I was almost afraid most of my drawings couldn't be considered an art, when I actually spend hours on all of them...
about the highlights, the popular art section: good idea... but the highlight section: I still find doujinshis very rare on it, but i guess that's really just me...
but couldn't there be a spot reserved for a doujin or
something? ok, me asking again
actually through what has been suggested, Ayamael has a point, it is similiar to copy skills, a doujin for example is art, we see the basic idea behind a doujin is an artist attempting to make a copy of the original artists work, albeit with different story.
and the above definition clearly contradicts with this in a sense that, if you do not think that cleaning a vector image as art, then that means art is not inclusive of the thought of beautifying an image or object of artistic impression as a representation of an artistic statement, hence, in contradiction, an artwork is not an art if you do not make it original. (as in drawing it)
w00t was referring to the tracing type of vectors. It's like taking a pic, place a paper over it and then trace (either only the character, or together with the background).
It's just copying unless the background is your own.
i see...oh well, there is no point crying over spilt milk, i think now that the system has been decided, it will be no point to argue further. If it was up to me, a decent good and hard effort tracing job does deserve a highlight, but i suggest of course at a limited time. maybe a week.
it should be the exact contrary. It isn't because rules already exist that we should not question them, that they be new or old. Now I agree the new system is much more decent, but that won't stop me from pointing out the negative issues none the less. An interesting crittique should always be welcomed, no matter what.
I don't believe so. Allthough it is more than true that tracing is a long process and the members that achieve tracing gracefully scans should be aknowledged, the highlight is not their place. After all, MiniTokyo is supposed to be an ART community. Tracing is hard work, but not art. Just as reconstituting 2 pages spread scans can be long, we don't highlight the members that do take their time to do it.
merged: 12-09-2005 ~ 10:24am
Since the new changes the highlights have indeed been chosen with more care and I appreciate that. But there still are major problems with the system I believe, and it should not be left for granted now that it has changed.
I'm brigning a new argument on the table.
I've been browsing a lot the general wallpapers recently due to the fact that my last walls were indeed in this category. Surprisingly I realised that 5 out of the 6 presently highilghted wallpapers were proposed by Sheqel. Now of course they were highlighted by biri since she is the only moderator of that section. But proposing is offered to every Elite member and moderator if I am correct, and that is more than one person. The funny thing is that Sheqel is the admin of this site. Now would that mean that because HE proposed the wallpapers the moderator felt obligated to choose them? now isn't that questionnable!
This is certainly an issue to be taken seriously
The 5 wallpapers in question:
http://gallery.minitokyo.net/view/200662/
http://gallery.minitokyo.net/view/196459/
http://gallery.minitokyo.net/view/197705/
http://gallery.minitokyo.net/view/196582/
http://gallery.minitokyo.net/view/199529/
The new rule about Elites being able to propose is taken WAY too lightly.
.
I'm also remembering everyone that there still are 5 wallpapers in the highlights, where are the doujins?
Just because Sheqel proposed an item for highlighting doesn't mean that moderators are obligated to highlight the item. When it comes to highlighting, even though Sheqel is the Big Cheese, we're certainly free to decide for ourselves whether we believe that a submission is worthy of highlighting regardless of his view on the matter.
Honestly, Sheqel is a really nice and reasonable guy. Though he is our boss, he certainly is not a tyrant who would dictate to us what to do or think
I never said the contrary. I was only noting the fact that 5/6 walls were proposed by him when there are more than 20 "powered" members, counting the elites. By all means I was not attacking Sheqel in particular, but more the fact that diversity in the proposer names is lacking
merged: 12-09-2005 ~ 01:45pm
A proposer can propose many but only one can be chosen for highlights. The other slots should go to choices from other proposers as well.
Each person has his likes and dislikes. Some might like grunge more while others prefer vectored walls. So, by highlighting from multiple proposers, there can be diversity in the Highlighted section, don't you think?
Alternatively, should be a limit on how many a person can propose too.
yeah but the highlighted art doesnt change much...
you can have a doujinshi hanging out 3 weeks as a highlight... isnt that a lil bit too much...
the explanations why they are highlighted are ok i support that but sometimes some highlighted work can be a little crappy...
I think the highlighted stuff should be some things that take your breath away...
And the favourite walls are much better than those in highlight...
And there are too many recent submittions...
Hmmm come to think of it i am against doujinshi submissions...
One last thing,
Oh the highlights stay on way too long, MT is a huge community with tons of new arrivals each day and the stuff get highlighted once a week, it's not enough to keep with the pace
Candy is right :/
Minitokyo needs one highlighted submission a day, atleast. It is ridiculous to have the same 6 pieces up on the front page for a month, there are way too many high quality wallpapers on this website. I know that the highlights were updated recently, too, but it is bound to happen again when no one on the staff has a pace for updating it, but just do it whenever they want to.
i do suggest however, that when highlighting, adequate reason and a good and in depth comment be left on it, otherwise, comments such as this one:
Quoted from a highlighted item:
Chosen by shyxsakura and biriwilg
The clean, popping vector work and kooky perspective add a breezy feel to this simple desktop candy. Feeling summery already?
Proposed by shyxsakura and highlighted by biriwilg.
end quote.
I am not saying anything about the artwork at hand, since it was your submission Candy-chan, but the reason...it is just like saying "Nice wallz, yay, highlight!"
As for the updating, I suggest at least once every 4 days or so, I agree that it stays on too long.
I am sorry for bumping a thread after 5 weeks old, but am simply stating a view.
No I agree. The highlighting comments were supposed to be there to explain why it got highlighted, not say it looks good u_u
Looks like the system still needs a lot of work
They have too few active moderators doing Highlights and have so many Highlight slots. THey're spreading themselves thin, making it a very neglected feature.
and lying about who proposes and highlights isn't helping the situation. Right now not only more than half of the wallpapers highlighted DO NOT deserve their place at all, but the highlighting almost seems to be done randomly with no effort.
4 of the 6 walls have LESS than 2 lines of text explaining the choice. I'm sorry but
"stylishly beautiful.
everything about this wall is beautiful and mellowized <3"
DOES NOT show any sign of preoccupation.
And where are the doujins?
At least it's good for laughs though. Someone might want to compile all the Highlighted justifications for its humorous quality though.
One even created a new word, "widescreenal"...ROFL!