Well i formally will not use google for a long time nor yahoo, both have now decided to coporate with the Chinese goverenment! They now will censor any type of information the Chinese government wants to be censored and thats a lot of information. Such words as Free Tibet, Democracy, Tannamen Square Massacre, Revolution and anything that hints at free though may be censored.

If you search on google in China and you look up Tiannamen Square, nothing about the Massacre their will be allowed! All you now will find on google China is tourist photos and propgand pictures.

Yahoo decided to turn over a list of people who searched words that might have been somewhat critical to the Chinese Government, such as Free Tibet, or Democracy. So googles motto is don't be evil yet they are now purpoously giving results that are basiclly propaganda, i have a friend who went to China a year ago this person talked to the Chinese people about what the Tianamen Square Massacre was, none of them had a clue what he was talking about!.

What google is doing is helping a government to opress its people. I think google has broken it's Motto Dont be evil.

So what do you think? Does google have th right to do this? Are they Doing the Right thing?

Shinsengumi89

Then you shouldn't use MSN either. Microsoft has also long cooperated with the Chinese censors.

Profit trumps morality. Google had two options: tap into the huge market of hundreds of millions of Chinese internet users or stay out of China and maintain its purported moral righteousness. Considering that the internet population of China is greater than the entire population of the United States, Google chose the former.

As innocent as the two founders of Google may be, they are no longer the heart and soul of Google. As a corporation open to the scrutiny and will of its investors, Google is responsible for profit. As morally offensive it may be to cooperate with a government that severely limits free speech, Google's administration needed to choose and to make sacrifices to continue to develop markets and generate larger dividends for its shareholders.

But think about this. The internet is ultimately uncensorable. Even though the Chinese government has done a remarkable job of blocking most sites containing material the government finds objectionable, ultimately the infinitely expansive nature of the internet will break free of the wrapper the Chinese government is trying to put around it. With millions of new websites created and countless new domain names registered each day, it is impossible to censor everything. The very fact that the Chinese government needed the cooperation of Yahoo to incarcerate a political dissident is proof of the emerging power of the internet in the promotion of free speech and free debate in China. As the tech-savvy generate in China continues to bloom, the government will continue to lose its iron grip. The internet is simply too vast a realm for any effective censorship of its entirety.

It's either no google or a filtered google. There is no choice in this case that would lead to the Chinese people getting full acess to google. If google did not filter it's results for China, then China would simply block access to google completely. That's a lose-lose situation.

cencsorship is wrong wether its boobs on tv or tienamen []

HAHAHAHAHAHA THIS IS FUNNY! those stupid chinese commies are really trying to keep their country isolated information wise. Communism really does suck. Well, this is definatly new milestone in censorship history, and Google (an American Company) has finally sank to the levels of Communism (America's worse enemy)

merged: 04-14-2006 ~ 01:28am
Wanna hear a joke? People's Liberation Army.

I agree completely with mikenox, would the chinese rather have no google search engine or one with results that are censored by national laws?

I also don't see them censoring delicate information that is prohibited by law to be against their "do no evil" policy. It is as though no one can see censorship on the north american google search engine. If you go searching for content that is banned by law you may find some but most will also be censored by the engine. This is the same with the chinese search, you can search for "tienamen sqaure" in pictures and it does come up with some picture of the massacre although very few.

Free speech does not mean freedom to do anything you want at anytime in any place, obviously if you went around an elementary school handing out fliers for sex shops you could claim freedom of speech or press or whatnot, but it would do you no good. This is exactly the same thing, freedom does not mean absolute freedom, it means freedom to do what is accepted by society.

EDIT:

Quote by SunSpotsHAHAHAHAHAHA THIS IS FUNNY! those stupid chinese commies are really trying to keep their country isolated information wise. Communism really does suck. Well, this is definatly new milestone in censorship history, and Google (an American Company) has finally sank to the levels of Communism (America's worse enemy)

Whats even more funny is that your parents obviously raised you to be the typical ignorant self-glorifying american the world has come to hate. You weren't even old enough to notice the political differences of communism to democracy when there was tension between the two, and I wouldn't be surprised if you still don't know the difference. You just follow the word of your ignorant typical parents and peers and decide that communism = bad, USA = good. First, learn what you are talking about before choosing sides or no body will care what you have to say. Second, learn to accept other cultures before you become so accustom to being ignorant that you end up living in a trailer park claiming america is the only place in the world that is good and righteous.

China did have a uncensored Google but it was extremely slow or didn't work at all.
Hey, at least China getting some service now. Also, China can't keep it grip like this for too long. If it want to globalize, it going to get the attention of many countries. Even when they do something nasty... They can't get away with it like they used to.
So, give China some time and it'll crack.

Yes i understand the idea of having a search engine but now the chinese feel they have the truth because they do not know they are being censored, so when they turn up results those results are more or less propoganda, it's information that the government wants the people to see, it's worse to think you have all the truth and abilty, then not have any information at all, see iof google never was there then they would wonder and look for the truth. well i'm rambling.

Quote by EphixI agree completely with mikenox, would the chinese rather have no google search engine or one with results that are censored by national laws?

I also don't see them censoring delicate information that is prohibited by law to be against their "do no evil" policy. It is as though no one can see censorship on the north american google search engine. If you go searching for content that is banned by law you may find some but most will also be censored by the engine. This is the same with the chinese search, you can search for "tienamen sqaure" in pictures and it does come up with some picture of the massacre although very few.

Free speech does not mean freedom to do anything you want at anytime in any place, obviously if you went around an elementary school handing out fliers for sex shops you could claim freedom of speech or press or whatnot, but it would do you no good. This is exactly the same thing, freedom does not mean absolute freedom, it means freedom to do what is accepted by society.

EDIT:

Quote by SunSpotsHAHAHAHAHAHA THIS IS FUNNY! those stupid chinese commies are really trying to keep their country isolated information wise. Communism really does suck. Well, this is definatly new milestone in censorship history, and Google (an American Company) has finally sank to the levels of Communism (America's worse enemy)

Whats even more funny is that your parents obviously raised you to be the typical ignorant self-glorifying american the world has come to hate. You weren't even old enough to notice the political differences of communism to democracy when there was tension between the two, and I wouldn't be surprised if you still don't know the difference. You just follow the word of your ignorant typical parents and peers and decide that communism = bad, USA = good. First, learn what you are talking about before choosing sides or no body will care what you have to say. Second, learn to accept other cultures before you become so accustom to being ignorant that you end up living in a trailer park claiming america is the only place in the world that is good and righteous.

Ephix, I would not be so quick to judge. You yourself have demonstrated both the capacity to be ignorant and arrogant simultaneously. Given your age, not even you were enough to understand the conflict of ideologies that lay at the center of the Cold War. The subsequent education you and he recieved were not not very differnet. Additionally, being a mere half decade older than Sunspot does not endow you with a greater wisdom or possess a better understanding of the World. The point is that no one who has been alive for just twenty years (Myself included) has yet to develope an accurate scheme of the world.

Quote by griffon

Quote by EphixI agree completely with mikenox, would the chinese rather have no google search engine or one with results that are censored by national laws?

I also don't see them censoring delicate information that is prohibited by law to be against their "do no evil" policy. It is as though no one can see censorship on the north american google search engine. If you go searching for content that is banned by law you may find some but most will also be censored by the engine. This is the same with the chinese search, you can search for "tienamen sqaure" in pictures and it does come up with some picture of the massacre although very few.

Free speech does not mean freedom to do anything you want at anytime in any place, obviously if you went around an elementary school handing out fliers for sex shops you could claim freedom of speech or press or whatnot, but it would do you no good. This is exactly the same thing, freedom does not mean absolute freedom, it means freedom to do what is accepted by society.

EDIT:

Quote by SunSpotsHAHAHAHAHAHA THIS IS FUNNY! those stupid chinese commies are really trying to keep their country isolated information wise. Communism really does suck. Well, this is definatly new milestone in censorship history, and Google (an American Company) has finally sank to the levels of Communism (America's worse enemy)

Whats even more funny is that your parents obviously raised you to be the typical ignorant self-glorifying american the world has come to hate. You weren't even old enough to notice the political differences of communism to democracy when there was tension between the two, and I wouldn't be surprised if you still don't know the difference. You just follow the word of your ignorant typical parents and peers and decide that communism = bad, USA = good. First, learn what you are talking about before choosing sides or no body will care what you have to say. Second, learn to accept other cultures before you become so accustom to being ignorant that you end up living in a trailer park claiming america is the only place in the world that is good and righteous.

Ephix, I would not be so quick to judge. You yourself have demonstrated both the capacity to be ignorant and arrogant simultaneously. Given your age, not even you were enough to understand the conflict of ideologies that lay at the center of the Cold War. The subsequent education you and he recieved were not not very differnet. Additionally, being a mere half decade older than Sunspot does not endow you with a greater wisdom or possess a better understanding of the World. The point is that no one who has been alive for just twenty years (Myself included) has yet to develope an accurate scheme of the world.

Nevertheless Griffon, Sunspots was wrong in the comment he made. Regardless of China's' disposition regarding how they run their country is their business, Google has to respect their concerns if they want to continue their business relationship. It is really up to the People of China to either make a stand or continue their own set path. It makes me sad that they have forgotten and/or erased that part of their history, however, I believe that they haven't forgotten. They just don't want any problems with their government bringing it up. Freedom of speech is a luxury that the few fortunate can afford, and Sunspot...... you can be in the same situation, and not even know it. Count your luck that you don't have to suffer as much as they are now.

Quote by SunSpotsHAHAHAHAHAHA THIS IS FUNNY! those stupid chinese commies are really trying to keep their country isolated information wise. Communism really does suck. Well, this is definatly new milestone in censorship history, and Google (an American Company) has finally sank to the levels of Communism (America's worse enemy)

That's funny. Another idiot who is controlled by propaganda from 20+ years ago. Good job. Do you even understand what the communistic form of government is?

Google is not "evil," moral or immoral, the PRC could have just removed access to Google and it would be over with. Instead Google cooperates and there is still a chance for people to have the freedom to search up some stuff, at least, via Google. If that's good or bad is up to you, but it's better for Google and allows people to at least use Google.

tamaneko works for google, does that mean she's evil?

Quote by griffonEphix, I would not be so quick to judge. You yourself have demonstrated both the capacity to be ignorant and arrogant simultaneously. Given your age, not even you were enough to understand the conflict of ideologies that lay at the center of the Cold War. The subsequent education you and he recieved were not not very differnet. Additionally, being a mere half decade older than Sunspot does not endow you with a greater wisdom or possess a better understanding of the World. The point is that no one who has been alive for just twenty years (Myself included) has yet to develope an accurate scheme of the world.

The difference is I didn't come out calling the chinese commies and enemies of the USA. I told SunSpots he was ignorant based on the comments he made about something he knows nothing about other than others' ignorant views. I do not claim to know everything about the democracy/communist conflict, but I know calling the chinese "stupid commies" is no different than calling african americans slaves or the N word.

The Chinese aren't comunist there Capitalist, who are dictators, they use a free market ecnomey, if they were communists there would be no free market ecnomey

ZOMG I AM EVIL I WILL GO TO CHINA AND MAKE LOTS OF MONEYY!oneonelevenone
I was going to write a long-winded response but figured it was a dumb idea. So instead I WILL DO MORE EVIL AND STUFF!YAY

Quote by Shinsengumi89Well i formally will not use google for a long time nor yahoo, both have now decided to coporate with the Chinese goverenment! They now will censor any type of information the Chinese government wants to be censored and thats a lot of information. Such words as Free Tibet, Democracy, Tannamen Square Massacre, Revolution and anything that hints at free though may be censored.

If you search on google in China and you look up Tiannamen Square, nothing about the Massacre their will be allowed! All you now will find on google China is tourist photos and propgand pictures.

Yahoo decided to turn over a list of people who searched words that might have been somewhat critical to the Chinese Government, such as Free Tibet, or Democracy. So googles motto is don't be evil yet they are now purpoously giving results that are basiclly propaganda, i have a friend who went to China a year ago this person talked to the Chinese people about what the Tianamen Square Massacre was, none of them had a clue what he was talking about!.

What google is doing is helping a government to opress its people. I think google has broken it's Motto Dont be evil.

So what do you think? Does google have th right to do this? Are they Doing the Right thing?

Shinsengumi89

wah damn. THE CHINESE? thats damn gay stupid google ***holers.. OH WELL.... it aint that good anyways.

They had no choise i gues. China has the bigest population in the world.
And google still is a company that lives from the money it gets...

Another example of money over morals? Then again, what would the alternative be for Google? Completely cut off China from its service? Like what mikenox said, it's either censored Google or no Google at all. Which would be a greater evil, providing censored information like what the Chinese gov wants or provide no information at all? Google didn't really have much of a choice, if they had stayed out they would be denying Chinese citizens access to other potnentially beneficial information, like mediacal or scientific websites. Sure a lot of information gets blocked but whatever goes thorugh is information nonetheless. And like what EternalParadox said, it's impossible to ban all information the chinese government doesn't want. So give it a few years and soon some cracks will appear in the censorship, and soon there won't be much difference between what they get and what you and I get.

Yes, the "Corporate Demon " has paid the folks of "GOOGLE" a visit before doing business w/ the Chinese. (People's Republic of China). Al the major ISPs did it (including Microsoft). Come on, Money rules, folks ! If Google didn't do it, some one else would have.

I do admit, it's bad that a ISP does that out of morality. For the people, it's tough because the "Powers that Be" don't want to give up power or want to admit that they were wrong.

When one creates a lie, yeah, go question it. When the lies are talked about enough, they become mainstreamed and we forget the reason why we lied in the first place.

In my opinion, the wide usages of perhaps one of the world most popular (if not THE most popular search engines) is perhaps the highest possible profiteering solution ever.
Imagine, with at least 1/4 of the world using your services, and being to work in a onwards to globalization country, what is there not good at Google's end of the deal?
I mean, sure , morals, ideals and all that, we can save that for the fairytales, cause the difference is that, well, you are talking about the second (if not the strongest) economy in the world, and in ten years time, a potential takeover of superpower from the US.
(Though I have my doubts how much they can do better but that is out of topic)

Generally speaking, like said, money works the clocks, Google no matter how powerful, is just a medium, and a business partner, a business entity governed by the rules of a nation or country and its goverment, if it is to take the step and preserve its ideals, I say pretty much, you won't even have Google in China, well then too bad no? You are losing a great potential benefit.

Likewise, I think there is no big deal, as China progresses, the world will begin to scrutinize their communism rules and regulations and information freedom, sooner or later, they will lose their grip.

The thing is that, well, the government won't always be ruled by one man, it is simply something along that line.
Sooner or later, the information will be on great demand, globalization after effects, blah blah factors included, I hardly see there is a reason to fear what is being feared now, such as a total erasure of history and so on.

FYI, China is NOT Japan, they don't erase history, they just rather keep the noise down, they DO NOT rewrite history just as the Japs did for the World War 2 Massacre.

Google never was that good in the first place. Now they bow down to a corrupt government for the money. Screw Google, now I wonder if i looked up Google on Google.

in those cases, using anonymouse.org (or .net, i don't remember now) could be useful :P

This is ... wow...

Very strange....
We should make sure nobody uses google anymore ^^

oh noes! Commie Red China is trying to destroy Google o_O.... Once again people make a mountain out of an ant-hill. It's already a big step for China to allow so many American corporations to trade with the largest population in the world.

All you people condemning Google for making a smart business choice need to stop fantasizing about giant government conspiracies and pretty white unicorns and face reality. Google is a business which sells or provides goods/services to customers for a certain price. Google, the search engine, is only one division of the internet conglomerate. Allowing censorship is a small price to pay to be given the right to serve over 1.6 billion customers. Considering China probably already has an extensive system of filters to censor a large portion of "objectionable" internet material, allowing the censorship of Google is probably won't make a huge difference anyway. Besides it's not like it affects you people (the ones not actually living in China).

And as usual we have our own MT brand of "political-awareness"...