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Issue Concerning a Former MT Member~

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winterlilac09

winterlilac09

white freed by her savior~

As many of you might have already noticed, a member of our community, known as Susan-chan, has been banned from MT. The purpose of this thread is not to complain, atagonize or irritate the mods, question the mods' decision, start fights, nor see anyone get banned for an outburst or whatnot. I would just like to see what people's opinions are on this situation.

~ Susan-chan was a very highly regarded member here on MT and she had quite a few popular walls. However, it seems that a -what she thought of as- significant number of those walls were deleted and started to complain. She made an outburst and evidently annoyed the mods and got herself banned.

Here's a link to the actual complaint thread that she started:
http://forum.minitokyo.net/showthread/11182/

I don't make walls, myself, and I'm just curious as to see how much the walls that people make actually mean to them. To come to a main point and question, would any of you guys have sided with Susan-chan or did the same things she did if it happened to you? I can see it from both sides, but I'm just curious as to what the wallers would say. >.>

Quote by Nuriko

Quote by Susan-chanwell....what can i say....i have to hurry....if i want to reach that 100th level....-_- i have to made....hmm..more 40 wallpaper....

And, it looks like you posted this after biri's last warning. So, you're banned.


Personally, I don't think she should've been racing to level 100 and questioning the mods' decisions. I respect the mods and I trust that their decision had been just and that they had given her a reasonable amount of warnings. v.v But of course, then, that's just my view....

Note:: if there's a thread similar to this which has been closed already or if a mod finds this thread to be pointless and annoying, please feel free to close it. The last thing I'd want to do is aggravate a mod and get banned. ^_^'

However so, I just want to know what you views and opinions are. Good day to you all. ~

f a l l i n g . i n t o . s w e e t . c e l e s t i a l . d r e a m
l i g h t . i n . s h e e r . a n d . s i m p l e . s l e e p
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GallComp

GallComp

Alone in the Dark

Sometimes the members of the staff have to take hard decisions like this one. Even if its a "founding" member of a determined site, she shouldn't have ignored the warning that the mods gave her.... Honestly I don't see the big fuzz about getting to higher levels, to me is more important to see how to improve in my work and that if the people actually like what I do....

So far I have not gotten any of my work deleted (at least recently), and I don't really care if its deleted, because I read all the comments already so it served its purpose... People should learn that this is not the end of the world....

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CTEon

CTEon

.:Holy Devil:.

I agree with you actually...making great walls is fine...but making them for the wrong intent is still wrong no matter how one looks at it...as you say...the mods probably have some sort of reason for deleting her walls...extremely bad quality of course shouldn't be the reason however since most members try their hardest to make their walls in order for it to be judged by others so they could improve or what not...but let's not get into that (likes his life and wants to be on mod's good side after all XP)...as it is we're talking about susan here after all...and I guess after a while when you see a barrage of walls get quickly churned out your first assumption is that she is spamming for lvls which is exactly her aim...and that just shouldn't be what its about

Quote by Osirisi didn't know about the other walls that he (keltosh) wanted to delete however but he says they were the same as the shown examples. I know keltosh wouldn't delete something if he doesn't feel 100% sure that its the right thing to do, kel is too kind to delete out of grudge or just to make your lives difficult. So I trust his words and thats all there is to it.

Now I'll have to believe the mods since I trust the method in which mods were chosen in the first place...mods are chosen to become one because they (supposedly at least) have great judgement and is very fair in all situations...they are also well respected among the communities in which they work in so if they tell me the wall is terrible I have to believe them...and from seeing Os around the place I can say that I believe he is a fair and reasonable person...his choice to trust the other mod's decision then wouldn't be to cover up the other members' action but more of a "I would've done the same if I was you" type of thing I guess

If I was a waller who got that many deleted then I would be mad yes...but the main thing I really have to see was how much effort I really put into making those walls...susan says they were made every hr...that's fine...fast does not mean sloppy and greater works of art could be made from short inspirations...kel says though according to Os that they were the same so I guess in this sense it really is justified as they seem to be no more than the same wall with maybe a different palette

that's just my view though...sorry if I err...made anyone angry through this post *bows*

Yesterday is hisory, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift...that's why it is called the present

Well, Susan is on my f-list and I'm sure she never wanted to do something bad.
But one thing is sure, each time I came check out my notifs, I could be sure there were some walls from her. Cute girl and mostly simple bg. I'm not a waller and I can't say if they were stock photos or filters but I have to agree with the mods that even if some looked nice they didn't show a lot of efforts. Even Susan-chan commented on some of her walls as simple or quickly done. A lot of ppl like her walls ( personnally I added her to my f-list because she's kind, not because of her walls ) and I'm sure she likes walling, but obviously not for artistic reasons. I don't mind her enjoying the level-system, but I can understand that annoys some ppl. The only problem is that her walls stayed too long before beeing deleted, the rules were here since the beginning but were really applied only recently. So instead of having a few walls deleted at the beginning, she received a lot of feedback and obviously didn't think she was doing something wrong... until she got the mass deletion. So, I can understand that she didn't >_<.
But she wasn't banned for that. The mods gave her her chance, the issue is that she didn't took the time to learn from it and started the same thing again... The mods do a great job and haven't the time for this. I miss her and she was improving but she didn't need to do it that way since it was against the rules, and I have nothing wrong to say about the mod's attitude. They don't want to be rude, they just can't talk to you for ages about each deletion, ppl should involve themselves more and read the rules/faqs/threads before making the mods responsible for everything.

ps: I really think it's funny when ppl come complain about their wall which needed so much time to make ( like 1 hour ) while there are a lot of art in other sections which are completely ignored though they involve days and even weeks of work (I'm not talking for me, I receive far enough feedback).

minimouzo

minimouzo

Papaya

i had already made a thread about susan and it has been closed. It seems she can't have a last chance ... you sure haven't see this thread because it is in the last page due to a bug which sets my thread's date at 1825weeks ago.
http://forum.minitokyo.net/showthread/11476/

it's weird how without concertation an another person thought of making a similar post. It prooves susan has a lot of friends and is appreciated here :(
i hope her affair will be re-considerated because i think she is really sorry :(

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CTEon

CTEon

.:Holy Devil:.

Yes...I have found quite a few of her walls greatly to my liking as well...but I guess breaking the rules has been breaking the rules...she was warned after all...so no matter how many friends she has or how appreciated she is it must be done...
she should be given a second chance though I believe and I would stand by papy with his wishes to make mods reconsider if she really is regretting the decision she made after all...people should be allowed to be given second chances I believe

Yesterday is hisory, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift...that's why it is called the present

minimouzo

minimouzo

Papaya

you can also check this thread. mods have already been tolerant.
http://forum.minitokyo.net/showthread/11189/

Quote by JinzhouLol...gotta agree with Gall... he should know. =P (Long time no see Gall, na?) Anyway. Yes, the first person bitched at us, not a smart idea. PLUS we know Susan-chan, and she's been here for a bit, she's not a total newb who has little to ziltch in respect.

Answered, closed.

i didn't know jinzhou had defended her before. So thank you Jin.
Mods have been patient.

I'm sure she will apologize soon and maybe will she get a last chance. I know she is really sad to have been banned. She explained me mt was her life and that she now feels really sorry. It's maybe not my job to say it but i'm sure she will make these apologizes to the mod soon.

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autumnchill

autumnchill

~.::.Memento Mori.::.~

Naturally winter, you know that I don'tlike to take sides. But for this topic, I have some points to talk about. Whether they are pointless r meaningful, that is for you to decide.

Anywayz...wallers have spent much time on their walls and they are all beautiful. If they are deleted...how would you feel? I mean, if you had one of yoru best wallies deleted, you'd feel angry as well, right? Please don't jump on me...only stating some.points here. ^_^'

But in a sense, Susan-chan should have just listened to the warnings. If she says MT is her life, then perhaps she would have known better than to forget about all the warnings the mods were giving her.

In conclusion, I also will not take sides (being that thatis my personality) and will just says some points. I have had my say...someone else should have the floor now!

~.:: R E M E M B E R - T H A T - Y O U - W I L L - D I E ::.~


Being myself, i feel quite a bit of sympathy towatds Susan-chan's plight :\ If anything, i want to see her geing given a second chance, because in my opinion banning should only happen to rippers and spammers, and obviously she's done of the neither. But then again, she does need to learn the importance of restraint.

I've only seen a few of her walls, and i've never seen the ones that were deleted. But if the mods said that they were below quality, then i have to agree with their decision. The funny thing is that all this could have been possible avoided if someone had simply decided to talk to her and point out that the mods were right. Sometimes it's better to piss people off at you rather then have them pissed off enough for them to do something stupid in their rage :(

But then again i don't really know the situation in detail, so i really can't be counted on to give a accurate observation. But to sum up my opinion, she should be given a period of time away from MT to learn restraint and control, and then let back into the community. My position is that banning her forever is too harsh. If she wants to come back she'll have to apologize to the all the mods, and i'm sure they'll let her back in.

Quote by autumnchill Naturally winter, you know that I don'tlike to take sides. But for this topic, I have some points to talk about. Whether they are pointless r meaningful, that is for you to decide.

Anywayz...wallers have spent much time on their walls and they are all beautiful. If they are deleted...how would you feel? I mean, if you had one of yoru best wallies deleted, you'd feel angry as well, right? Please don't jump on me...only stating some.points here. ^_^'

But in a sense, Susan-chan should have just listened to the warnings. If she says MT is her life, then perhaps she would have known better than to forget about all the warnings the mods were giving her.

In conclusion, I also will not take sides (being that thatis my personality) and will just says some points. I have had my say...someone else should have the floor now!

same here

GallComp

GallComp

Alone in the Dark

Sadly after creating a second account to whine and get banned again, her chances of getiing unbanned becore even smaller than before. As I mentioned before in a different thread,most of the time warnings dont work, and she is an example of that....

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minimouzo

minimouzo

Papaya

i know that -_- that's why her apologizes will maybe sound "wrong" ... well i hope the situation will be better.
but i respect your opinion GallComp. And i understand clearly the mods opinion after having a talk with one. I think now the ball is in her hands ; at least, as i friend i have made my best to make the situation better and calm the spirits.
but you're totally right. It will be hard :(

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CyanideBlizzard

Retired Moderator

CyanideBlizzard

Margarita Time!

She didn't mean anything bad, but she shouldn't of stated in her one submission "I'm trying to get back to level 100 asap". That wasn't smart because if your racing, that means you'll be doing rush jobs. Second it also shows that your only in it for the levels. It was mainly a matter of not thinking before typing. That and people didn't really see how much a comment like that is not allowed, thus why alot of people went "She didn't do anything wrong". Granted I think Susan-chan is a wonderful person, but she just chose the wrong thing to say after already walking on a thin line.

Great choice of topic Wint. Food for thought indeed. ^^

What does this teach us? Well first off if were in it for levels never to mention it. I don't know about you but I joined here because of my love of anime and art. What do you get with levels? Bragging rights? Well congrads, you have the highest level, you've won a prize. Whats that prize? Nothing! This community is about art and being able to share it with others.....Well thats what I feel anyways.

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shinsengumi

Retired Moderator

shinsengumi

. . . remember me?

Quote by CyanideBlizzardWhat does this teach us? Well first off if were in it for levels never to mention it. I don't know about you but I joined here because of my love of anime and art. What do you get with levels? Bragging rights? Well congrads, you have the highest level, you've won a prize. Whats that prize? Nothing! This community is about art and being able to share it with others.....Well thats what I feel anyways.

I completely agree. . . this is definitely something that everyone should take note of, but unfortunately there will always be people for whom competition and title mean more than the spirit of the community :(

s h i n s e n g u m i
Minitokyo Policy, Forum, Review, and Category Maintenance Moderator Emeritus

Do not expect to be applauded when you do the right thing, and do not expect to be forgiven when you err, but even your enemies will respect commitment, and a conscience at peace is worth a thousand tainted victories.

Rebel-Soul-Kaze

Rebel-Soul-Kaze

Glittering Crux Emperor

So agree with Cyanide,this is not a race for levels,i dont mind if im lvl,10 or 40 or 100,i will try to do my best and submit good quality walls,and improve if i can.

K I R A B O S H I !

GallComp

GallComp

Alone in the Dark

Quote by papyworldat least, as i friend i have made my best to make the situation
better and calm the spirits.

And you know that is another issue that also sometimes dont help to solve this kind of issues. First of all dont get me wrong, I'm not speaking against you (or disrispecting you in any way) in this next sentence, its about the general "Helping friends" threads....

The whole "help" threads that came after a member is banned clearly don't help the case of the banned member, at the contrary they only serve to make the moderators mad. Why is that? because unlike in this thread where we all have being respectful and post the true opinions about the matter the people thrend to get mad at the staffs and to start questioning their abilities or rules of the site, its more like a chain reaction I would say. In times like this is better to keep the friendship aside, if someone was banned it was because of their own actions, and it should be the banned member the one who could try to get a deal to come back to the site, not someone else's....

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From what I've read, i think she never should'v been banned. Of couse if I made this thread I'D be banned, so my opinion dosent count for much here ^_^

Defender of the Misunderstood

whitefang

whitefang

Pirate Hunter

Well. actually. i don't like about susan-chan. why she must angry about. 50 wallpapers. maybe there is a reason why her picture deleted. well. actually my wallpaper too was deletd by MT about 34 wallpaper. but i don't angry because there's a reason why my picture deleted. (actually that's make my "spirits" down you know) but i can't give up. i must show my self that i can make a wallpaper again, and i don't care about 34 wallpapers.
when you get a problem like this. i hope you don't angry like susan. it's just a wallpaper. you can make the wallpaper again right?

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CTEon

CTEon

.:Holy Devil:.

Quote by GallComp
The whole "help" threads that came after a member is banned clearly
don't help the case of the banned member, at the contrary they only
serve to make the moderators mad. Why is that? because unlike in this
thread where we all have being respectful and post the true opinions
about the matter the people thrend to get mad at the staffs and to
start questioning their abilities or rules of the site,

You know that is very true...if people start questioning the authority of moderators then in the end it'll just lead to utter chaos and people accusing the mods of abusing their power...not something that should be wanted...the question though is how the banned member should contact the site since they're banned...should they make a new account again to give more reason to be banned again? o.O

Yesterday is hisory, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift...that's why it is called the present

Celessa

Retired Moderator

Celessa

Okaerinasai - Welcome Home

Saw that - trying to get to Level 100 - not a smart thing to say, really.

If someone is walling on MT just to simply gain levels and popularity, I think that the person has lost the true meaning of what it means to wall around here.

If wallpapers get removed and people cry about it just for levels ONLY, that is pretty much something that would even make people like me a little irritated. The real reason to wall should be to show that you do have artistic talents within yourself - and that you should feel good about your creations in the first place. When you showcase it on the web and get favs., you feel rewarded of course, that's the extra bonus you gain off by doing so.

I mean, as much as I would like to say - she's well respected but the move stands. Sorry to those who think this may be wrong, it's times like these that will hurt many members here on MT - but it can't be avoided. Sooner or later, one of them will have to go - but for how long remains a question. So respect the mods' decisions - they thought it over and had to do what they believe was right. And so it ends here.

"No matter where you go, no matter how tough life may be, just remember that always in your heart, you will still be loved."

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minimouzo

minimouzo

Papaya

Quote by animefan8From what I've read, i think she never should'v been banned. Of couse
if I made this thread I'D be banned, so my opinion dosent count for
much here ^_^

i saw this thread started by you : http://forum.minitokyo.net/showthread/11189/ ; everybody has the same chances but it's sure they will make more discussions before banning a "founding" member ( i don't know what word to use ... so i used gallcomp words ^_^ ).

@cel , cyanideblizzard , rebel soul kaze , shinsengumi : well i think we all agree about that topic of "racing".

Quote by CTeonthe question though is how the banned member should contact the site since they're banned...should they make a new account again to give more reason to be banned again? o.O


really good question too ...

Quote by GallCompThe whole "help" threads that came after a member is banned clearly don't help the case of the banned member, at the contrary they only serve to make the moderators mad. Why is that? because unlike in this thread where we all have being respectful and post the true opinions about the matter the people thrend to get mad at the staffs and to start questioning their abilities or rules of the site, its more like a chain reaction I would say. In times like this is better to keep the friendship aside, if someone was banned it was because of their own actions, and it should be the banned member the one who could try to get a deal to come back to the site, not someone else's....


i didn't thought about that ... it's true. but in the thread i started if you have time to read , it is more friends reaction who just want to offer her a chance ... well it's true there was one guy saying something about moderation criteria. Maybe if this thread hadn't been closed other guys like him would have posted.
I also didn't know such "help" posts were so frequent. But if such posts makes mod angry , as a friend , what can we do ?
i also want to agree with the notion of chain reaction ... it's true that a lot of people ; even not her friends have participated. In general, it was very polite ... but that's right there was 1 answer questioning the authorities and treating them bad.

So i understand and i want again to apologize to jin especially if i made him mad.

my last question : if this had happenned to a real friend what would you have done ? it seems hard to not irritate the "authorities" in this situation ... i insist on real because she is really not a bad person and she is really a true friend to me.

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sammo

Retired Moderator

sammo

Retired Moderator

wow, i did not even know susan was banned, but let's make this clear. to those who think we don't give someone a chance to redeem themselves...we do. we give out 3 strike system, in which the third strike (or warning) will earn a ban from the community. once that happens, there's really not much a person can do. its been decided thru the accumulation of warning, and just because few friends decided to petition to unban her wont help (no matter how the noble the cause is). so therefore, susan not only had a second chance, but a third one.

ive seen lots of people who post gallery items just to gain level. i really have hard time understanding, because we all have the same previlages once we reach level 10 (with the exception of skins, searching, and the ability to create groups). i really wish people would realize this and stop submitting low quality scans and wallpapers with minimal amount of work (not saying that's all susan made, but im sure she could've spent more time on each individual walls, rather then submitting over 100 somewhat walls in such a short space of time). ie, minor editing job of the scans, fiddling with few brushes...those just won't fly very well.

many must admit, susan-chan made wallpapers with inane speed. some of the wall i saw from her were good, but some of them were just plain lazy work (ie. minor touching up of the scan with the wind filter and nothing else done to it). we won't even mind if your whole intent is getting higher level as long as we can totally tell that the wallpaper shows lots of effort, but when i saw some of her walls, i could not help but agree 100% with the rest of the staff's decision because they clearly lacked any effort.

just think: susan made roughly around 120 walls in 16 weeks of time (today's date is january 1).
16x7 = 112 days.
by dividing 112 from 120, we get this ratio: 1.07. this means susan made 1.07 wallpapers EVERYDAY. i'm sorry, but that's somewhat amazing productivity, but it clearly shows that not much time was spent on the wall. while many other wallpapers take around 2-3 days to make a wallpaper, susan would be making about 3-4 walls in that span of time. if you factor in the time when she is not walling, then it can even be estimated that she makes 2 walls a day. amazing.

it wasn't easy to decide to ban a such an old-time member, but the rule applies to everyone, even us staff members. we're working for a better place in MT. please understand our intentions :(

minimouzo

minimouzo

Papaya

thank you for making it clear sammo.
so, you weren't angry due to this "petition" thread ? i think that it's a natural feeling to try to help or to defend a real friend when he/she is in trouble.
but it won't help it seems. i hope it hasn't made you angry.

can't we do anything for her then ? there won't be an another chance ?

she really said me she was sorry and that mt was her life and making wallpapers also. She has changed ; i'm sure of this.
As i explained to the persons saying it's too late to apologize : it's often when you suffer the consequencies of your "bad" actions, that you realize you were wrong. And then you try by all ways to proves you have changed. But then, the others don't trust you anymore because you had already been warned.

thank you for your time sammo

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Frosty

Frosty

: One Luv :

lol... now lilac-chan is talking about this too.... lol... ^^

i personally don't know susan-chan but seeing her stuff around all the time I fought she must of been pretty good at this and is a valuable member here in MT, but lately that I saw alot of High Level member getting Ban here and there, I saw at least 3 member with Lv50 or higher got Banned and I fough to myself whats going on....

but with susan-chan's case now that I got to know whats the real reason why she got banned, I mean okay alittle too egoistical there... lol....

okay personally past Lv 10 is already good enough, anything higher is just a number. Is not like you'll money out of it or anything. lol.... XD and yea sure you get to show off with that big number but wow.... as sammo poins out....

Quote by sammo ....just think: susan made roughly around 120 walls in 16 weeks of time
(today's date is january 1). 16x7 = 112 days. by dividing 112 from 120,
we get this ratio: 1.07. this means susan made 1.07 wallpapers
EVERYDAY....


okay she really really Really needs to get back to school, or go back to her day job cause this freaking nuts!!!

but papyworld is right about this through....

Quote by papyworld
can't we do anything for her then ? there won't be an another chance ?

she really said me she was sorry and that mt was her life and making
wallpapers also. She has changed ; i'm sure of this.... it's often when you suffer the consequencies of your "bad" actions, that you realize you were wrong. And then you try by all ways to proves you have changed. But then, the others don't trust you anymore because you had already been warned.

this kind of makes me wondering to myself that being in this community and invest my own personal time giving the oppertunity in this place to able to make friends around the world posting my own work to show others in behalf of your site, and as I become a higher up level member and grow more attach to this place, will I wake up next day and lose my membership to this and all of my works to your site and not able to say anything to defend myself?!?!

sound more volatile than the stock market during the bubble days in my option lol... XD nah jk... but then its all base on emotion at that momment and as far as I consern thats never a good jurdgement.

I would say if you are going to restrict or banned someone, make so theres a time limit let say if you get "restrict or banned" you will be off that resriction after say a *month or something* because its members like susan-chan who invests alot of her time here that makes this site feel alive. *quote unquote* lol. ^^ but if she is to come back, I hope she won't go posting crazy again casue thats pretty nuts on the speed she produce her works. XD

i know I may get in trouble again for saying stuff like this *no not again* XD but yea, I somewhat feel her plain, although with the stats that sammo brought up, it kind of makes me wondering, "What in the world does she do during the day!!!!" XD

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