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Nice Walls Finish Last

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I wouldn't know anything about this :)
i think anyone who could creat a good wall sure
be get a nice comment :)

Keltosh

Retired Moderator

Keltosh

Inquisitor on hiatus

Well I DO think that good walls get washed away wayyyy too often, and that many walls made it to top favs just cause of friends... Often I see submissions that I delete for quality or mature content that gets favorites, and even quite some of them. And even ripped walls get favorites, sometimes by mid-to-high-level members. So this problem is not only due to new members; some high level members fav things that honestly make me go DUH. Well the problem is I honestly don't see how the system could be changed.

In any mass evaluation system, like the one present now, there are bound to be distortions caused by friends and such. But if we were to say that only a part, an elite of members can judge submissions and determine what gets in the spotlight, there would be a rebellion or something ....

Such a system could have been implemented from the beginning maybe, but probably not now. People always complain when things change for the worst for them. And many would be in this situation. Cause I honestly think that many walls that makes it to top fav are nice yes, but not deserving to be there.

For example if we were to change to a vote-based system made by an elite of members.. we'd have to process the whole gallery backward for evaluating old entries! (scans are not an issue ehre. Imho scans shouldn't even get favorites..)

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I am now on hiatus from moderating due to my thesis.
One of my favorite game ever: Mordor: The Depths Of Dejenol Community
The beautiful signature is from Biriwilg

Quote by EzekielI think that's why the 'groups' were established. You can band a group
of people together who don't know a lot of people and they can all look
at one another's work, and get along based on a common interest...

Or you could always stick the link into your signature and prowl around OB. Pretty shameless but it gets the work done. You might even attract the attention of the mods and send [Bot]Chii after you!

Aha. :nya:

Quote by Keltosh(scans are not an issue ehre. Imho scans
shouldn't even get favorites..)

Right behind you, chief! Scans do not even showcase the member's artistic prowess! You know what, maybe we should group scans accorig to the make of scanners they were scanned with; just to get them hard-working machines the recognition they deserve. ;)

Criox

Criox

~LoNe BaNcHoU oF MiNiToKyO~

Different people has different taste for wallies! Well....wat I think is....even though the wallie is not as good as those that get alots of favs, they should get at least some credit cuz they hv tried! As for wat einna say....

Quote by einnaPeople add me to their friendlist (yes they do and I don't add people
to my friendlist just to have them fav my walls) because they want to
be updated about the walls I submit. So, it depends on them if they
want to add my works to their friendlist or not. I just add them to my
friendlist too (I dunno why...-.-;;).
I think that there are wallpapers that are being ignored but deserve to
be recognized but we have to also consider others' point-of-views of
the walls they fav that, for us, aren't good enough to be faved. As you
can see, people have different point-of-views. Remember:
beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder. So, even if we bring
out these kinds of threads, it can still never stop those things that
we think are unfair.
But I don't think people should ask the people in their friendlist to
fav their walls just because they want their walls to be in the
spotlight. It's being unfair already.
Actually, those who comment and fav my walls, majority of them are not
in my friendlist.^^;; And I would rather want comments that will make
me improve rather than comments that don't help me at all. ><

I totally agree! Some people juz wanna get lvs juz by spamming on comment! Its true, I seen some comments that juz say nice work, good.....watever! Well I not really wanna pin-point ppl who did these! Pardon wat I say if I offend anyone! >_<

~SpInnIng ThE NeW ThReAd oF CrEaTiOn~
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Keltosh

Retired Moderator

Keltosh

Inquisitor on hiatus

I think I need to explain myself further. This community is meant to be a place where artists can submit their work and receive comments and evaluations. A nice wallpaper, a wallpaper that a person likes, is not necessarily a good wallpaper. Heck, for wallpaper right now I use a resized scan. And it IS nice. But.. is it a good wallpaper? NO. Comments should be the way to express what you think of a wallpaper, not favorites. And for the simple reason that I stated above, in a community an evaluation done by everyone IS going to be distorted. Most persons just put favorites on nice looking walls, not on GOOD walls.

A wallpaper should be judged good or not based on other considerations as well, like skill and effort, not just for being nice. Or for being the work of a friend...
For example in my opinion one of the most overlooked wallpaper artist on minitokyo is http://sir-boingal0t.minitokyo.net/ <-- sir boingsalot. His walls are nice to see, if a little dark, and show incredible skills. If a person doesn't like dark wallpapers, he/she might not like them that much, but regardless of that this incredible skill makes them truly deserving of being top quality walls.

The problem , as I stated above, is that it would really be problematic to change evaluation of the whole gallery. ..

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I am now on hiatus from moderating due to my thesis.
One of my favorite game ever: Mordor: The Depths Of Dejenol Community
The beautiful signature is from Biriwilg

Katzbalger

Katzbalger

Managment Fun

Hmm... sword already wrote a thread about this effectively.. oh well, don't matter. To be straight, some walls get the attention they deserve, but that's only because that artist has heaps of friends. Heaps of friends = lots of faves. It sickens me, but it's the truth.

Raiynagh

Raiynagh

fr0gm45+3r

There'll always be some good wallpapers which don't get the credit they deserve. There is the whole point about lots of friends therefore lots of faves, but also, if they're submitted at the wrong time, they can be overlooked.

If we talk in a very high pitched voice, the fish can't hear us...

charaznableamurorei

charaznableamurorei

patron saint of doujinshi

Quote by KeltoshThe problem , as I stated above, is that it would really be problematic to change evaluation of the whole gallery. ..


Quote by katzbalgerHmm... sword already wrote a thread about this effectively... To be straight, some walls get the attention they deserve, but that's only because that artist has heaps of friends. Heaps of friends = lots of faves. It sickens me, but it's the truth.


Hmm, the poll indicates a "technical solution" to this problem of good walls getting waylaid. Might there be a "social solution" to this problem that people haven't considered? ^^ Anyway, I don't have any yet, but I will await the results of this poll, and we might just include this data in our discussion at Order-of-Reason re: Minitokyo social issues. Again, 'just saying thanks to Celessa-friend for making this thread. (ahaha, sounding like a suck-up...)

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einna

einna

*kisu* ^.~

I'd totally have to disagree with the friend-faving-a-wall complaint because with my experience, people comment/fav my wall before they add me to their friendlist.

I don't know about other people, though. They collect a batch of friends so that they can get favs. And I've noticed some wallers putting in their descriptions of the wall something like this: "Please fav my wall if you like it." Or something like that... which IS not supposed to be the attitude of a good waller.

I myself worked hard to reach lvl50 without convincing people to fav my walls. It depends on them how they judge it.

Well, even if we change the system, nothing will still change. People will still stay the same, unless they change by themselves. Come on! This is not big of an issue... Massive wallpapers get uploaded everyday. Who can stay up all day just to witness every piece of them? It's the recent submissions section that has the problem.^^;; Kidding! XD

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Osiris

Retired Moderator

Osiris

(>^-^)>( . Y . )

I wish people would stop faving stuff just because that person is on their friendslist, what ever happen to the real meaning of favorites :x

And yeah, good walls don't get to top sub because of one reason: not enough friends. Like the wall boing submitted days ago, he's not active on MT so he doesnt have that many friends/watchers..a shame too because that wall owned. :\

You guys should browse the gallery more often and look at other walls, give comments and fav where they deserve and not just look at stuff made by your friends.

ps. Friendslist is the same as Watchlist so stop asking the person whether its ok to add them. ~_~

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einna

einna

*kisu* ^.~

Quote by OsirisI wish people would stop faving stuff just because that person is on
their friendslist, what ever happen to the real meaning of favorites :x
And yeah, good walls don't get to top sub because of one reason: not
enough friends. Like the wall boing submitted days ago, he's not active
on MT so he doesnt have that many friends/watchers..a shame too because
that wall owned. :\
You guys should browse the gallery more often and look at other walls,
give comments and fav where they deserve and not just look at stuff
made by your friends. ps. Friendslist is the same as Watchlist so stop
asking the person whether its ok to add them. ~_~

I definitely have to agree with you.^_^ I always check out the recent submissions and comment whichever deserves a comment.^^;; I don't fav some walls made by my friends if they don't deserve it. A GOOD wallpaper has to make my jaw drop and has to make me stare at it for a long time before I comment on it and fav it. (Just like sammo's works! XD And some others too that have great works.^^;;)

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wuschel

wuschel

wollknoll

I agree with Osi and Kel. there are a lot of walls that deserved the top high fav and never showed up there. Also a lot of crap wall just get easily the top five cause of their friends.

People should stop giving so shiat comments and start giving comments for real. I want to hear what i can improve and do better not what i did right. That s not the point if i submit a wall. An "awsome" , "woooooow" , "cutteee" or just a simple + fav. Dont help me to improve with my art. Also i think it suckz that ppl only comment on walls of their friends or cause it appeal to their taste. I mean see boings submitted wall. They are awsome. I dont like nge but that doesnt mean that its a bad wall. He got talent and a lot of skills and his walls are nearly perfect. But does he get the deserved fav ? No and thats a shame.

Most mt members are just a little plain dumb (yeah im insulting) to get why there is the fav system and the comment system. To show ur honest opinion on a wall not to do ur friend a favor.

And yes there are ppl that are popping out walls like changing underwear. It would be great if there was a rule like only 1 wall a week.

Limality

Limality

Sleeping Beast

Quote by OsirisI wish people would stop faving stuff just because that person is on
their friendslist, what ever happen to the real meaning of favorites :x
And yeah, good walls don't get to top sub because of one reason: not
enough friends. Like the wall boing submitted days ago, he's not active
on MT so he doesnt have that many friends/watchers..a shame too because
that wall owned. :\
You guys should browse the gallery more often and look at other walls,
give comments and fav where they deserve and not just look at stuff
made by your friends. ps. Friendslist is the same as Watchlist so stop
asking the person whether its ok to add them. ~_~

Same opinion as osi here. Sometimes i see the most suckiest wall hit top fav for weeks while one of the best walls just doesnt get up there. you should think before you fav a wallpaper. do you really like it? or are you just doing it so that person will fav you back? it can't be a fav if the wall isnt worth it....=\ just think about maybe that there's a wallpaper far better than the one your friend just did and by giving your fav toyour friend you destroy one more chance for the better wall to get recognized =/

i don't just add walls to my favourites cause that person is my friend...I really look at the wall how it's done and eventually if it's good enough and if it really pulls me in ill fav it but else...no...no chance

einna

einna

*kisu* ^.~

wuschel has a point in the commenting system. Comments should be as constructive as possible. The comments will help the wallers improve their skills.

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einna

einna

*kisu* ^.~

Art appreciation!^_^ You're right! We must not fav walls because they're made by our friends but we should fav those that we like!^_^

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charaznableamurorei

charaznableamurorei

patron saint of doujinshi

Quote by wuschelPeople should stop giving so shiat comments and start giving comments for real. I want to hear what i can improve and do better not what i did right. That s not the point if i submit a wall. ...Also i think it suckz that ppl only comment on walls of their friends or cause it appeal to their taste... Most mt members are just a little plain dumb (yeah im insulting) to get why there is the fav system and the comment system. To show ur honest opinion on a wall not to do ur friend a favor.

Quote by einnawuschel has a point in the commenting system. Comments should be as constructive as possible. The comments will help the wallers improve their skills.


Hmm... but giving out "comments that would help improve one's skills" would entail great (or at least, some) knowledge in digital wallpaper making and software... wouldn't this view be a bit prejudicial against people who are not 'armed' with this know-how? (e.g., me)? ^^

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einna

einna

*kisu* ^.~

Quote by charaznableamurorei
Hmm... but giving out "comments that would help improve one's skills"
would entail great (or at least, some) knowledge in digital wallpaper
making and software... wouldn't this view be a bit prejudicial against
people who are not 'armed' with this know-how? (e.g., me)? ^^

Well, I don't know but let's just appreciate art for a while.^^;; It definitely has to be the job of the skilled masters (NOT me..) to give constructive criticisms. But, for the sake of art appreciation, you must not comment/fav walls that were made by your friends that you don't like.^^;; Just like what Osi said. XD

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Osi's dead on with that statement. Boing's wall was awesome o_o; (the metal paneling is crazy >_<) You should judge a wall by its merits and skill/work. Just cause the maker is your friend isnt really good enough. >_> <_<.

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charaznableamurorei

charaznableamurorei

patron saint of doujinshi

Edit!

Quote by einnaWell, I don't know but let's just appreciate art for a while.^^;; It definitely has to be the job of the skilled masters (NOT me..) to give constructive criticisms. But, for the sake of art appreciation, you must not comment/fav walls that were made by your friends that you don't like.^^;; Just like what Osi said. XD


Yes, I see the point, friend... ^^ But wuschel's statement here:

Quote: Also i think it suckz that ppl only comment on walls of their friends or cause it appeal to their taste...

... kinda scared me off... "Appeal to their taste" is art appreciation, right? Maybe I'm just nitpicking... ^^ Ahaha, you know my commenting style, einna-friend, and is this the proper forum for me to say sorry for not commenting much on your recent submissions? Oh, sorry if I did it already... ^^ Anyway, great discussion! We really have to take into account these inputs in our paper.^_^

Oh, and:

Quote by Osirisps. Friendslist is the same as Watchlist; so stop asking the person whether its ok to add them.


I do not recall seeing this explanation on any page on the Support Pages, although I agree with the first part , anyway. Anyway, I have always thought that 'Friendlist' also has this 'social aspect', aside from the 'technical aspect' of being notified of submissions, so I'm not comfortable with the "stop asking this person whether its ok to add them" part. Just a nitpick; I'm not going to argue over it. ^_^

But!

Quote by OsirisYou guys should browse the gallery more often and look at other walls, give comments and fav where they deserve and not just look at stuff made by your friends.


Quote by MordinOne reason for this (walls faved w/o consideration for effort/skill) to happen is because people don't really browse the gallery section in dilergence...


These are actually great advice/views. I'd like to term this action of taking the time out to browse as much as possible as "traveling", so to speak. Are people "traveling" around MT that much? ^^

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einna

einna

*kisu* ^.~

Quote by TheRavenIsUnSkillOsi's dead on with that statement. Boing's wall was awesome o_o; (the
metal paneling is crazy &gt;_&lt;) You should judge a wall by its
merits and skill/work. Just cause the maker is your friend isnt really
good enough. &gt;_&gt; &lt;_&lt;.

Yeah! Boing's works are good! He deserves credits!

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calisqo

calisqo

::RERAITO::

Quote by einnaBut, for the sake of art appreciation, you must not comment/fav walls that were made by your friends that you don't like.^^;;

I believe a comment is essential to make someone better in anything not just walling.
While giving a favorite is optional, giving a comment to a friend might be helpfull for him/her.
unless ..... there is a clear evidence of no effort in the work.
I always try to comment although some works are hard to comment, but at least i'll try to spend time to comment.

Anyway , that's just me ..

Athrun

Athrun

Flying Chain Chomp

http://gallery.minitokyo.net/view/75475/

Well I really like that one... and it only got 8 favs since she's only got 24 friends...

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Quote by Keltosh
For example in my opinion one of the most overlooked wallpaper artist
on minitokyo is http://sir-boingal0t.minitokyo.net/ <-- sir
boingsalot. His walls are nice to see, if a little dark, and show
incredible skills.


I definitely agree, Kel! :) sir-boingal0t's walls are way underrated, I always visit his website, DigitalBoing, every day to see if he has new submissions! That goes to show that the best wallies made by the pros here at MT are being pushed away by the constant bombardment of mediocre walls, that imo are only faved by either ecchi-ness or sucking up by plugging their friends' names just to get them to fav their work! >.<

Quote by OsirisI wish people would stop faving stuff just because that person is on
their friendslist, what ever happen to the real meaning of favorites :x
And yeah, good walls don't get to top sub because of one reason: not
enough friends. Like the wall boing submitted days ago, he's not active
on MT so he doesnt have that many friends/watchers..a shame too because
that wall owned. :\
You guys should browse the gallery more often and look at other walls,
give comments and fav where they deserve and not just look at stuff
made by your friends. ps. Friendslist is the same as Watchlist so stop
asking the person whether its ok to add them. ~_~

agree with osi. I saw some wallpapers that aren't that great in the top favs >_>....i think people shouldn't fav a wallpaper so fast >_>.....they should take a good look at the wallpaper ...not just because you are friends and fav and say nice nice nice when the wall got some normal stuff with moderate quality. and there are some really nice wallpapers that couldn't reach the top of lacking friends and people who don't browse the gallery >_>

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