I also agree that we don't have to spent so much money on space exploration but space is such a beautiful sight. It is a mystery of how big the world out there actually is, I mean, we're just a tiny speck in the the whole universe. I sometimes wonder what else colud could be out there and scientists devote their lives in fullfilling our curiousity.
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- Apr 29, 2005
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As a completely science side physicist and mathematician, I'm all for exploring the outer reaches of the solar system. If not to find new places to live and such like, at least we get pretty pictures XD
I don't think it's actually realistic to say that money spent on space exploration should all be used for helping poverty. Seriously, no matter what happens, poverty will always exist. As long as we live in a capitalist society, there will be the rich and there will be the poor. Marxism had great ideas for solving this but so far no nation has been completely successful in implementing Marx's ideas.
Nevertheless I will agree that the really rich countries are spending a bit too much money on space exploration which could be spent on social services and other developing countries to at least help decrease the debts of those countries and the poverty in their own countries but I don't think they should scrap the whole space exploration thing completely. We need to know if there are options for humans to move elsewhere because unless some worldwide birth control is enforced, this planet is going to get seriously crowded. Also, we all know about the impending doom with the environment, so it'll be good to have another world to move to and plunder ;)
- Apr 29, 2005
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Quote by LordStyphonAnd just why is that so wrong? The rich nations are the ones who have the resources to invest in space, and as a result of that be the ones who determine how they will use those resources. Not to mention, they're the ones with the technology that makes all of this feasible. Why shouldn't they set the agenda if they're the ones doing the work?
yes they have the right to set agenda since they have the resource to do so, but what I am saying is that they set agenda that is bias and favorable in terms to themselves only. It excludes other nation from entering into the competition with equal terms. The terms should be fair to all and it shouldn't be unreasonable favorable to the nation of the stronger bargaining position. Just want a equal playing field so everyone can recieve that benefit. I don't see why people would be resist to that.Quote: (The property you're looking for is Park Place, btw. >_> )
ah it seems i forgot that one, havne't play monopoly in awhile now, thanks for correcting that for me. However, I do seem to detect a certain disparagement in your tone, I hope I didn't offend a monopoly fan there. :D
Thank you einna for the siggy :)- Apr 30, 2005
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Quote by skysongTo me it feels like they have downed the space program a bit, since all
of the crashes...>_<there have been 3 space shuttle crashes to my knowledge, mostly due to inadequate funds to fix the wear and tear that is done to the space shuttle during take off and landing, so there haven't been as many as people seem to think...its just we only hear about the crashes and nothing else. (I don't mean to sound mean or anything ^^; just wanted to point that out)
I think space travel is a good thing, and might actually help us unite under a common cause, I would hope that the creation of the international space station would create a sort of 'human unity' and help people come together. i know it sounds naive but still...
- Apr 30, 2005
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Space exploration is necessary to our future if we are to survive. While I do hope it is not anytime soon but one day we will use up all of the resources on this planet and we will need to go else where. Gaining just some knowledge now would more than help us later on so I feel research placed in to space exploration is worth it.
Also computers, cell phones, and a lot of medical technology has been gained from research in space so it does help us in other ways other than finding new planets.
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- Apr 30, 2005
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Quote: Just want a equal playing field so everyone can recieve that benefit. I don't see why people would be resist to that.
I don't have any problem with a level playing field, actually. It's just that even with an equal starting point, some naturally have advantages over others. The rich nations are going to have more to spend on space exploration; that by default would give them a leadership role in it. It would also give them the majority of profit derived from the program; they spent the money on it, so why shouldn't they derive the most gain from it?
Besides, a level playing field doesn't guarantee benefit to everybody; it just guarantees that everyone is given the same opportunities to succeed or fail. Equality of opportunity is not the same thing as equality of outcome.
In poorer countries want to be able to compete with the big players, they can pool their resources and work that way. Europe, for instance, works that way in many fields (Europe counts as a single player in the space program, not several). If the EU can do that, why can't ASEAN, for example?
Also, I wasn't trying to sound derisive with the Monopoly thing. I apologize if it came out that way.
- Apr 30, 2005
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I'll say we must continue exploring space for an over looked reason that should have been obvious. And I quote a line from my favorite series that said it best.
"We have to explore space and there is a simple reason why. Ask 10 different scientist about the enviroment, population control, genetics and you'll get 10 different answers, but there is one thing every scientist agrees on. Whether it happens in 100 years or 1000 years or 1 million years our sun will grow cold and go out. When that happens it won't just take us, it will take Mayrlin Monroe, Lao Szu, Einstien, Marobuto, Buddy Holly, Aristole. And all of this will have been for nothing. Unless we go to the stars." -Jeffery Sinclair/ Babylon 5
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- Apr 30, 2005
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well at the rate the human popullation growth..........you got to do something or there won't be enough resource in the world for everyone................
if you look at the history in the last millenia since 1500 or so human population just growing like a wildfire..........just way too much the current world population is more than 4 times of what it is in the last millenia...(or even more.......)
but with the current technology................that chances to happen is too slim..........
they need a better way of transportation and a way to protect from impact from object from outer space such a protective barrier otherwise the vehicle won't last long
- Apr 30, 2005
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Space exploration is necessary. Our world does not have the resources to keep an ever expanding popluation. Expanding our influence to the stars seems more human a way to control our population than instigating fertinility control, or worse, a maximum age limit. (say 30, like in Logan's Run). Some Agro-satilite colloneys in space could supply more food for the people on earth and in space too. And look at all of the resources that could be found in the Asteroid belt.
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- May 01, 2005
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I think space exploration is necessary. As shinsengumi says, space redifines the limits of human potential. Also, have you ever seen the movie "Deep Impact?" After err some president saw it a couple of years ago, he raised the funds for space exploration. What would happen if there was a huge asteroid that could create a massive extinction? Today we have the technology to stop that from happening because of the people who study space and all that.
- May 01, 2005
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I've seen a lot of good points made on both sides of the issue; some I agree with, some I don't, but I thought many if not most were valid and reasoned.
I can't really argue the from a political or economic stance, or anything like that; both are rather far removed from my personal areas of scholastic interest, and I'm not really qualified to comment on either.
More to the point, I'm in no position to even hazard a guess at what's likely to be best for humanity's future; I'm neither wise nor intelligent enough to make calls on that kind of scale or for those kinds of stakes.
All I really have to offer, at the end of the day, is what I myself would like to see.
As a gut feeling, I want to see mankind step out into the rest of the universe. The more technical arguments in favor of that have already been made far more eloquently than I could by the better informed LordStyphon and shinsengumi - and others too - but that's not the angle from which I'm coming at this, as I mentioned.
I think that our innate curiosity and drive to explore is an important part of what makes us human, and the day we lose that is the day that we lose a part of who we are. Naive or no, I feel that the sense of wonder expressed by heavens-Dragon is one of the best reasons to go out there. All too rarely do I hear anyone speak of the simple joy of learning for learning's sake, or of knowledge as its own reward; there are always real world concerns, but I think people can sometimes be too wrapped up in them to follow Ferris Bueller's deceptively sage advice.
Also, though it's surely not the most logical or practical reasoning, I believe the Everest mentality is appropriate here as well - because it's there, and we can. That's who we are.
The nature of my position forever relegates it to the realm of the more abstract, I think, and I'm not suggesting that decisions be made based entirely upon these arguments; they're just my thoughts, for better or worse.
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- May 01, 2005
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i suppose so. i mean, it's pretty cool to learn about space. astronomy and all that.
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- May 01, 2005
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i totally agree with you mordan.
rather than finding somewhere else to live and just "dispose" of this Earth, we should be taking care of it, using alternative energy sources, recycle and stop distroying the environment. we should also be trying to stablize the amount of people living on Earth. wars for oil also dont help.
altho, space exploration is interesting and I like the idea of it, but there are other things that need to be put first.
- May 01, 2005
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Wow. THis is a hard thing to think about. Everything has its good and bad. Space exploration will fill us with knowledge and help humanity as a whole because we are starting to become over populated, what could we do? kill ourselves to keep our numbers in check? The other good thing about space exploration is we get get new materials to use. However, using the money on earth is also a good thing because you can try to use the money on education, give money to the poor and use it to recycle stuff and come up with new technology. However no matter where we go there will always be poverty. So its a hard choice but I would choose to explore space right now. That is just my oppion. Sorry this post is not very clear but I hope you guys get some of the ideas already.
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it doesn't seem like there is a need for it now but it may help us in the future and if we become more technologically advanced we could probably live on some of the planets that we find...
- May 01, 2005
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I don't know if space exploration is 'necessary' per se, but if the alternative to space exploration is pouring the funds into developing countries as aid, I'd say stick with space exploration. Like several people have pointed out already, poverty unfortunately is another fact of this world. It would be naive to think that we can actually do something about it by giving up on space and spending the money for these types of humanitarian reasons. It's like.. persistently pouring water into a cracked jar that'll just keep leaking. okay i sound.. mean.
so with regard to space exploration itself. Not that I know much (or anything really) about the actual science behind it, but isn't it true that technological advancements made in this field eventually spill over to the normal world? Scientific progress is not only great for the scientists but for us normal people. Space exploration is like a dream that's slowly taking a real form as people develop/discover/invent ways to make it part of reality. Also having such high goals is probably a good thing since humanity (or scientists. we normal people will cheer them on) will have something to pursue for a long time.
And there's something that might actually be beneficial (tangibly, not just having warm fuzzy feelings) to humanity. I guess I'd think of it as a form of investment.
Going along with that earlier metaphor (which, i know.. is overused. sorry) its like the cracked pot that leaks water, but this time you also have soil and some known and unknown seeds in it. It's fun to see the known seeds sprout (this might be somthing like... developing better rockets or spaceships, i dunno) but what's really exciting is what your 'unknown seeds' will give you.
So I dont think its crucial that humans make it a point to go explore and expand (if possible) into space, but its definitely an investment. Giving it up would be a disappointment for science of course, but for humanity as well.
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Though I fear it's already been all but relegated to a minor footnote in future history books, the precedent set by SpaceShipOne warrants some small mention here, I think. Space exploration has historically fallen under the purview of larger governments, but wihle I dare not say that private investors and firms have gained a foothold in the area with the proceedings of the previous summer, I do believe - and hope - that Scaled Composites and its team have taken an important step in that direction.
Whether or not anything comes of it, of course, is another matter, but I think it offers a potentially viable alternative to the traditional way of doing things. To give credit where it's due, the aforementioned governments have done a fair bit - they were the first to get people out there, afterall, whatever the motivation; but perhaps our hypothetical next step out into the universe will require the sort of daring entrepreneurial disposition of the sorts who go out to make their own fortunes.
Or maybe we just need more good old-fashioned cowboys like Stephen Baxter's Reid Malenfant, if by some chance anyone's read Manifold: Time. :)
In any event, though life is never really so kind, perhaps in this instance the private sector can let us have our proverbial cake and eat it too. While governments focus on problems they and others deem to be of more immediate importance, guys like Burt Rutan and Sir Richard Branson could devote their energies to making space travel feasible, practical, and affordable. Not that reality is ever so convenient or neat and tidy, but I do hope that others follow in Scaled Composite's landmark footsteps.
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- May 03, 2005
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Wow, some one remembered the name Burt Rutan. I think the guy is on the right track. Now with his first SpaceShipOne a success he can make the next one go further. And get it done at a lower cost and more efficiently than the space shuttle.
Don't forget the Japanese already want to build a resort on the moon. If they can work out a low cost way to get there on their own, more power to them.
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- May 04, 2005
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It will be.
RIght now It's not much of a deal, but we are gradually exhausting the Earth's resources. Eventually we'll have to pack up and find a new home.To know what is right and choose to ignore it is the act of a coward.
- May 04, 2005
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Good point about the Japanese, Duuz - I believe their self-stated goal is to have a working facility on the moon up and running by 2025 or so, which could conceivably give other countries the kick in the pants they need to get up and out there as well, if they make good on it.
I do indeed remember Rutan, though - I thought SpaceShipOne's flight was rather historical, myself, even if it seems to have been largely forgotten in the months since. I just hope it marks the beginning of things to come, rather than an isolated exception that makes the rule.
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- May 04, 2005
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Quote by lordfurbyI agree that we need to explore the unreachable (as of yet) places here before we set out to discover new worlds.
Oh I hope not. We destroy just about everything we touch. The deep ocean is about the most primative place left on the planet. The lessons we could learn from them will be profound, but we're not at all ready for that yet.
i don't think we should be allowed into space with our current attitudes. Look at the junk we have littered about the solar system already. We act like space was "made" just for us.
We're almost sure to find other beings out there. Our collective arrogance, and stupidity is a potential inter-stellar war waiting to happen. When the big topic for the dominant percentage of humanity is: "Did Jesus die to save the aliens too?" Also what happens after we kill one? What happens if they decide to kill a few of us? From this logic alone we have no business out there yet, and our signaling to space should scare the hell out of you. Not just for humanity's sake, but for whom ever comes calling as well.
Maybe we should clean up our own act before we go out to trash another planet? Collectively we need better education, and ethics. If we do it soon enough, maybe we might have a nice home to return to, once we're really ready for such exploration.
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- Jun 05, 2005
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