your morals and the law :: if you had to choose..

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unicorn2006

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unicorn2006

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If you had to choose between the two, what would you choose?

* your morals - your sense/definition/beliefs about what's right and what's wrong, and thus can differ depending on who you are.
* the law - obviously the law. what the justice system/courts go by

Hm.. here's an example. Someone you love (family, friend etc) has been terribly violated (as in beaten/raped/murdered/assaulted whatever. something bad) and you know who did it. But that person goes free because there's not enough evidence to convict the person. Would you resort to illegal methods to get back at the person?

Or. You and someone else are totally in love with each other, except that the other person is a family member/close relative. Do you follow what you think is right (following your heart) or do you obey the law? (incest is illegal)

Or. You believe in loyalty to your family and friends. But you find out that one of them has done something illegal and caused pain to someone else you don't know. Do you cover up for your family member/friend or let justice do its thing?

Another example.. As I understand it, in certain ultraconservative sects of certain religions and some cultures, it is acceptable to kill to defend your pride/honor. (aka honor killing) So if you're a father of a daughter who's been seen acting promiscuously with some guy, it can be acceptable to kill them in order to defend your family's pride. But obviously murder is illegal. So who's right?

** These are just examples. Feel free to add your own.

Basically, staying true to your beliefs, or doing the lawful thing?

"Faith means believing in something that will only make sense in reverse."
"When men are the most sure and arrogant they are commonly the most mistaken..."

  • May 11, 2005

bbls

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i would have to go with obeying the law...i guess i would not want to sacrifice myself by having to go to jail by breaking the law. we have laws for a reason and i want to be a law abiding citizen..i think if you disagree with something, there's other, legal means to fight it without resorting to illegal actions.

Quote by unicorn2006Someone you love (family, friend etc) has been terribly violated (as in beaten/raped/murdered/assaulted whatever. something bad) and you know who did it. But that person goes free because there's not enough evidence to convict the person. Would you resort to illegal methods to get back at the person?


as much as it would torture me knowing that person went free....i wouldn't want to stoop to the level of that criminal and do something illegal. in the end, that person will get what's coming to them...i would have to believe that to keep my sanity!

Quote by unicorn2006You and someone else are totally in love with each other, except that the other person is a family member/close relative. Do you follow what you think is right (following your heart) or do you obey the law? (incest is illegal)


i'm sorry...i think that's just plain gross! i hope that someone could just use self-control and realize that incest is yucky and see that they're so many other people out there for them to choose from. i just can't condone incest because someone can't control their sex-drive or whatever.

Quote by unicorn2006You believe in loyalty to your family and friends. But you find out that one of them has done something illegal and caused pain to someone else you don't know. Do you cover up for your family member/friend or let justice do its thing?


no way...if my friend or family member did something illegal...i would not be able to cover it up in good conscience. if they did something wrong, they will have to own up to it and face the consequences regardless if i know the victim or not. my sympathies would be for the victim cuz that person deserves justice and peace of mind that the perpetrator has been caught and brought to justice, as well.

Quote by unicorn2006Another example.. As I understand it, in certain ultraconservative sects of certain religions and some cultures, it is acceptable to kill to defend your pride/honor. (aka honor killing) So if you're a father of a daughter who's been seen acting promiscuously with some guy, it can be acceptable to kill them in order to defend your family's pride. But obviously murder is illegal. So who's right?


i wouldn't be able to condone killing another person in this situation. murder is just plain wrong...although i'm not completely against the death penalty...oddly enough. there are the other legal ways to remedy the situation.

i guess i sound kind of harsh in my opinions. i suppose as part of my morals and beliefs, obeying the law is one of them. does it make me a wimp that i would follow the law instead of resorting to these other illegal measures? i hope not...i'd like to believe in our justice system and karma...what goes around comes around.


Don't worry about tomorrow, don't think about yesterday,
don't live in the future, just make it through today!

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  • May 11, 2005

Sunira

Sunira

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Quote by unicorn2006If you had to choose between the two, what would you choose? * your
morals - your sense/definition/beliefs about what's right and what's
wrong, and thus can differ depending on who you are. * the law -
obviously the law. what the justice system/courts go by
Hm.. here's an example. Someone you love (family, friend etc) has been
terribly violated (as in beaten/raped/murdered/assaulted whatever.
something bad) and you know who did it. But that person goes free
because there's not enough evidence to convict the person. Would you
resort to illegal methods to get back at the person?

Id resort to methods to let people know who did it. Id let the whole town know. I would tell the newspapers and all my friends. Id probably let the company he works for know also, assuming I knew where he worked. I would never actually try to physically beat him up or anything. And really in this case it wouldnt be revenge as much as a warning to the people around him what he/she is capable of.
So..I'd "get them back" within legal boundaries.

Quote by unicorn2006
Or. You and
someone else are totally in love with each other, except that the other
person is a family member/close relative. Do you follow what you think
is right (following your heart) or do you obey the law? (incest is
illegal)


It depends, if they're distant enough then I guess Id go ahead and date them, but if its VERY close, something I dont condone or believe to be right, then I would have to put aside my emotions to do what I believe is right. I couldnt base any relationship on thrown away morals.

Quote by unicorn2006
Or. You believe in loyalty to your family and friends. But you find out
that one of them has done something illegal and caused pain to someone
else you don't know. Do you cover up for your family member/friend or
let justice do its thing?

Yes. In this case, if they're hurting someone else, then its my duty to turn them in. They shouldnt be able to get away with it no matter how close they are to me.

Quote by unicorn2006
Another example.. As I understand it, in certain ultraconservative
sects of certain religions and some cultures, it is acceptable to kill
to defend your pride/honor. (aka honor killing) So if you're a father
of a daughter who's been seen acting promiscuously with some guy, it
can be acceptable to kill them in order to defend your family's pride.
But obviously murder is illegal. So who's right?

No. I would never kill someone just because I didnt like him. I do not have the right to control whether someone lives or dies since I am not God. Unless I deem myself perfect then I cannot pass punishment on someone else. Plus, it is my daughters choice who she wants to see. Its none of my business. If I disaprove, I will make it verbally clear, but that is all.

Quote by unicorn2006
** These are just examples. Basically, staying true to your beliefs, or
doing the lawful thing?

It really is a case by case thing whether or not i would consider following a law or following what i believe although in every case, it appears I am following my morals and sometimes the law coincides.

seiryumiko

seiryumiko

aka nike13

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Quote by unicorn2006Someone you love (family, friend etc) has been
terribly violated (as in beaten/raped/murdered/assaulted whatever.
something bad) and you know who did it. But that person goes free
because there's not enough evidence to convict the person. Would you
resort to illegal methods to get back at the person?


I would go the illegal route and 'get back' at them, no one messes with the family

Quote by unicorn2006 Or. You and
someone else are totally in love with each other, except that the other
person is a family member/close relative. Do you follow what you think
is right (following your heart) or do you obey the law? (incest is
illegal)


1. incest yuck! but in general i would follow my heart, like if the person i was in love with was not acceptable to my family, then i'd ellope

Quote by unicorn2006
Or. You believe in loyalty to your family and friends. But you find out
that one of them has done something illegal and caused pain to someone
else you don't know. Do you cover up for your family member/friend or
let justice do its thing?


It honestly depends on what the family member/friend did, if they killed/raped someone, then they should be punished and i would turn them in (unless the killing was in self defense of course)

Quote by unicorn2006
Another example.. As I understand it, in certain ultraconservative
sects of certain religions and some cultures, it is acceptable to kill
to defend your pride/honor. (aka honor killing) So if you're a father
of a daughter who's been seen acting promiscuously with some guy, it
can be acceptable to kill them in order to defend your family's pride.
But obviously murder is illegal. So who's right?

absolutely not, i understand honor is important but i think thats going a little overboard

mostly im a law abiding citizen, i understand that laws are necessary and that the public should follow them but there are circumstances that I feel would make me ignore those laws, but those are generally extreme circumstances anyway (actually, other than the ones above, i can't really imagine going against the law)

wolfco

wolfco

Prelate

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I'm going to try to answer your question by looking at the purpose of ethics vs the purpose of law.

I think that the purpose of law is easily defined; so, I'm starting with that. Laws are created for a variety of reasons, but the generalized purpose is to issue/describe some type of control on behavior which maintains quality of life for the general public. In other words, Ruler 'A' makes a law on behalf of her people which prohibits poisoning people's chickens since that degrades their quality of life (no eggs, no meat, no feathers, more weeds, etc).

OTH, personal morals serve to guide individual behavior within their own sphere of existence. I decide not to poison my neighbor's chicken because I know they will suffer without it.

The desired results are the same, but the initial reasoning is different. The difference is in numbers. As people and their circumstances vary so do their ethics. The law "serves" the many and so the ethics of the law are not black and white. There are "failures" in the law where the ideal results are not reached because you cannot always be immediately fair to everyone. A person cannot give a chick to each of his three neighbor's as promised regardless of the law, if only two of his three eggs hatch. Someone will have to wait or except a substitute. There is more grey in the law because it must be as ethical as possible for and to all parties.

In my case, I would always go with my personal ethics rather than the law. I don't say this because the ethics of law are incorrect, but rather because they cannot truly serve everyone effectively.

*You also cannot afford to confuse law with the justice system. Law is about correct behavior whereas the justice system is about discouraging crime. Your examples are more about the failure of the justice system that the flaws in the actual laws. This being a completely separate topic, I will refrain from expounding.

If you would challenge me, then you must first stand before the Darkness. You must look into it and become it. You must fall before it and then reach out to encompass it. When it is joined to your heart, you must overcome its insidious temptation. You are ready to face me when you can betray even your own heart in service to your cause.
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  • Nov 20, 2005
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hmm i obey the "ten commandments laws" you know the basic stuff.if a law is unjust or rasist...(they do exist these days) then id do my duty as a human and not follow it...otherwise id be a worse peson for it.

be pessimistic so that youll never be disapointed and will live a happy life.

  • Nov 20, 2005

joemighty16

joemighty16

Hope is an optimist

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The point of laws is to protect the community. The community came first and the laws exist to protect the community from each other - everyone's rights are protected. So if someone does anything to threaten that community, that person is quaraintened.

Point 1. Friend or family has been violated and you know who did it.
DO NOT take the law into your own hands. Rateher push the system, hire a private detective or something to dig up some dirt on the guy untill you have him legally convicted. Going after him yourself makes you a crimminal as well.

Point 2. Incest.
I'm not a fan of it myself but I won't condemn it as long as there are no children involved (what does it tell you about your own morals if you almost certify your chances of making crippled or damaged children? Thats the whole point of banning incest).

Point 3. A friend is in legal trouble. Remember that the other person that is suffering also has friends and loved ones - you don't want them to take the law into their own hands to come after you. Try to resolve the trouble as soosn as possible. If its not possible, let justice take its toll, but you'd better help your friend as much as you can.

Point 4. Murder. Sanctified by religion?
Not here. The law is more authoritive than religion. There is one law, but many religions. If someone murders someone else over a vandetta, then the law should take him in.

These examples are a little straight forward.

Try this one. Here the age of consent is 16. My friend is dating a 17 year old girl. Driven by his own morals, the 2 of them will only do it once she turns 18. The law have given him a legal chance, but there he prefers to follow his own morlas. All neat and legal.

Life is a game played by gods who are bored and who fight over the rules.

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what if ppl can be locked up for a "suspision of planing to do something bad" whould you support that law?

btw yeah law protect...but they can also kill innocents...(nurenburg laws? forgot when they begun) werent germans just following their laws....i know we cant pick and choose the laws that we follow. but how do we make sure something like that doesnt happen again?

be pessimistic so that youll never be disapointed and will live a happy life.

  • Nov 20, 2005

CyberDragoon

The Prince of Nothing

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I believe in the Law. Personal ethics is chaos. For example what if my personal ethics told me to kill everyone because they exist? However Law is flawed because it is created by people.

  • Nov 25, 2005
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I can't remember where exactly it was stated in the New Testament, but the Bible strongly encourages that the Law (and the government) be respected. And this was the time when the Jews were under the rule of the gentiles (Romans). Also, a lot of our laws are pretty much the same as the Ten Commandments: don't commit murder, don't steal, don't commit adultery, etc. Incest is also prohibited. Something is also stated about paying one's taxes.

The only time when I would choose to break the law is when the law starts to dictate to me which religion to practise.

  • Nov 25, 2005
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Personally, I believe that no one is above the law. And when you take justice in your own hands, you violate the system. What if you are wrong? You killed an innocent person and their loved ones, in your system, would try to kill you even though it was a mistake. By taking personal opinions into court, you are literally saying that I AM THE LAW or I'M ABOVE THE LAW. If everyone did this, then society would be ruied overnight. Vigilantes are great stories in the dark ages where justice isn't provided, now days you just have to be patient and wait for evidence to be found. Justice is always served, whether it's a day or a year from now.

  • Nov 25, 2005
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law b4 morals that is the only way to maintain peace.

  • Nov 25, 2005

Sunira

Sunira

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I believe that following the Law is very important. It maintains peace and it maintains a good system in which everyone has the same set of rules to follow.

I do not however believe in immutable law, that is, law that can never change. We should be able to appeal to courts to change certain laws in a peaceful and systematic manner. If my morals tell me I cannot do something and the law gets in my way and tells me I have to do it, I should be able to refuse in a peaceful manner, such as protesting, or opening up a court case.

I am sympathetic to being extreme under the circumstances that the government does not provide for change, such as the british government back when they ruled pretty much half the world. People have to fight that kind of law because there is no chance that those laws were ever made for those people's benefit.

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i always go with my gut. if i think something is right i'll do it, if i think something is wrong i wont! i did not make the laws, i had no say in the creation of them.

snarzz

snarzz

kawaii deschou ^^

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hm... my morals.
1. I wouldnt get back at the person beacuse im angry, i want to see justice prevail and try to come up with something that might convit him.

2. There doesnt have to be a baby. There can be an adoption? therefor it is not nessaccarily incest and therefor allowed =P

3. I would talk to my friend/family about the reason of the act. And it depends on the person who got hurt too. I mean, if the persons loss is like...a book or something i probably wouldnt care all that much, id just think stealing is wrong and pass that to my friend. But if the illeagal act is greater i would hope the person to turn himself/herself over or i would be forced to send an letter or give a call to the police

that is my moral, never benefit from others pain.

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  • Nov 25, 2005

Kyoo69

me -> Kyo`

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Depends. I would probably go with my morals and what I think is right, if I can trick the system and get away with it or just do it without being caught. I didn't create these laws and I don't think about them as a holy codex, but since the world is like it is, you have to obey them or be very careful and wise.

up up and away

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who here thinks that between 1936 and 1944
the treatment of jews by germans was really bad?
*raises hand*
if we follow the law all the time without our morals that can happen again. the nurenburg LAWS was the legal backing to hitlers genecide program.

thats what i believe when a law is obviously unjust or racist it cant be followed. By this i dont mean when you go to court and loose.

so to all those people who say they put law b4 morals let me ask you this? If you lived in 1938 germany and saw a shopkeeper(unarmed) being beaten and kicks by 2 S.S. members what would you do?
A/ look away, it the law. it was written in law that jews, gypsies and slavs were 'lesser' humans then 'aryans'
B/ try to intervine coz your conceince couldnt let you sleep at night when you thought about he shopkeeper. or help him/her in some other way.

just curious

be pessimistic so that youll never be disapointed and will live a happy life.

  • Nov 26, 2005

Shamshiel

Shamshiel

Crawling Chaos

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1. Vengeance is meaningless. It can not bring anyone back to life or undo an act once it has been committed.

2. If two people love one another I really don't think the law has any right to separate them because a few people find in disgusting.

3. It would depend on the act. If someone in my family had killed someone with no reason for example, I wouldn't defend them. I only show loyalty or respect to those who earn it, even if they are a part of my family. Someone who would do such a thing is not worthy of my loyalty or respect.

4. Honor killing is just stupid. In what idiotic world is killing honorable in any sense? Even if killing is absolutely necessary it is still not honorable.

In summation, I would always follow my morals if the law came into direct conflict with them. This does not mean I would force my morals upon anyone else, however.

  • Nov 26, 2005

Lacuslover81

Lacuslover81

One big and true lover of Lacus

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I tend to mostly go with my morals and most of the time it goes with the law any way.

A true lover of Lacus Member of Kira-and-Lacus-in-Love

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i think both morals and laws r just as important, i believe that if each is changed according to the situation to suit that situation it would be just. Cos having written laws are too inflexible due to different crimes but morals, everyone has different morals, some have higher standards and some have lower or even no standards. Change to fit the times, society and changes. Internet laws arent really up to date so morally we all shouldnt download illegally but i'm sure some if not most still do it, laws r needed to change as moral standing is weak (this is just an example)

  • Nov 26, 2005
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Nuremburg Laws? Your kidding. During World War II, those were considered moral. It depends on how you look at it. The word moral is so vague that it's impoosible to define. There is no criteria for moral, it depends on the person, time, place, and situation.

  • Nov 26, 2005
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i wouldn't want to sacrifice my morals, but i don't want to break the law either
i guess it would depend on the situation

  • Nov 30, 2005

LaiRaye

LaiRaye

Live and let live.

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Sometimes the law can be ridiculous...
for example a troubled 11 year spending his time in jail for a year for stealing a car or whatnot...
situations similar to that really trouble me!
The law can be useful...the principle is all fine and good...but I do believe our rights and out beliefs should ideally take precedence over the law, IMO

  • Nov 30, 2005

candy-chan

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candy-chan

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Quote by unicorn2006If you had to choose between the two, what would you choose?
* your morals - your sense/definition/beliefs about what's right and what's wrong, and thus can differ depending on who you are.
* the law - obviously the law. what the justice system/courts go by


Just like that, I would say it's a completely relative question, depends on the situation. But I have to say I would follow much more the internationnal human & civil rights than the country's constitution. Easy example: conservative muslim countries. There are still laws today that accepts the killing of women for adultery without going to the court. nuremberg laws were also named as a good example previously.

Quote:
Hm.. here's an example. Someone you love (family, friend etc) has been terribly violated (as in beaten/raped/murdered/assaulted whatever. something bad) and you know who did it. But that person goes free because there's not enough evidence to convict the person. Would you resort to illegal methods to get back at the person?


No because harming someone because he/she harmed another is completely stupid, whatever the law says. Same goes for death penalty.

Quote:
Or. You and someone else are totally in love with each other, except that the other person is a family member/close relative. Do you follow what you think is right (following your heart) or do you obey the law? (incest is illegal)


I have to say the love issue is complicated. But personally I believe that there should be no laws about love. Allthough procreating with a close family member should be illegal since not only the child will suffer from phisicall and mental problems but probably the whole family and parents will to.

Quote:
Or. You believe in loyalty to your family and friends. But you find out that one of them has done something illegal and caused pain to someone else you don't know. Do you cover up for your family member/friend or let justice do its thing?


Covering up would be riddiculous IMO. It would only aggrevate the problem by letting something not acceptable sociably slip only because you are thinking about this individual's well being, and not the other's

Quote:
Another example.. As I understand it, in certain ultraconservative sects of certain religions and some cultures, it is acceptable to kill to defend your pride/honor. (aka honor killing) So if you're a father of a daughter who's been seen acting promiscuously with some guy, it can be acceptable to kill them in order to defend your family's pride. But obviously murder is illegal. So who's right?


Haha, I'd have to go with the internationnal human rights :D
Religion can be wrong. All of them too, not only the notorious Islam (remember the crusades and midieval killings)

Same thing for the laws. If you happen to be in a country where freedom of speach is illegal, would you always follow the law? Ifnot how to you differenciate the acceptable law from tht one that is not? UN has some answers, but probably not all of them. Just like they did nothing to prevent stuff like Tibet invasion and Rwanda genocide.

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