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A possible new rating system

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kenzuke

kenzuke

Victimized

In connection to the recent contreversy about the favorite system.

ehem ehem... >_<

I think that there is a better alternative to the current system. Instead of basing the highlighted submittions to the number of favorites, we could instead use a rating system where the user rates the submission on a scale from 1 to 10, 10 being the absolutely coolest wallpaper in the werld!! But still keeping the fav system only as an archive for the works you liked.

ehem ehem... OX

Pros and cons:

Pros:
-IF everyone cooperates and gives a fair rating (opinion) on the overall quality of the submission, this would most likely give a more accurate system of rating. This system is being used by the people in www.worth1000.com and it seems to work well for them.
-This should eliminate the popularity contest controversy that surround the current system.

Cons: (hey, this idea isn't fool proof)
-The popularity contest thing could still in theory rear its ugly head... (asking "friends" to unconditionally give high ratings)
-The less people who vote, the less accurate the rating is. (this could be solved by adding a minimum limit to the people who have voted before putting it into the highlights)
-The tech people are gonna have a cow trying to change (or add on to) the old system...
-You enemy might rate you 1 just to get back.

Credit goes to my big bro for this whacked idea! XD

EDIT:

I thinks there's a better way than using a scale of 1-10.
What if before giving out a fav you have to rate a wall from.. maybe 6-10 (to solve that enemy problem.. I guess)

Aa-chan

Aa-chan

AA-CHAN

Hmm, this is a pretty good system. I'd like to see it in action, but I guess that's up to the admins.

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i think thats a pretty good suggestion Kenzuke :) but yeah haha it would take a lot of time n effort to change the rating system~ but would definately be a more accurate system ^_^ good thinking kenzuke hehe :D it will be interesting to see if a rating system like this would be used in the future~

Quote by Claire-03i think thats a pretty good suggestion Kenzuke :) but yeah haha it would take a lot of time n effort to change the rating system~ but would definately be a more accurate system ^_^ good thinking kenzuke hehe :D it will be interesting to see if a rating system like this would be used in the future~

sounds good...
theoretically better...
problem w/ the cons though...
could work here...

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Chani

Dune Master

Good idea.. but is the same weight the vote of a veteran (Level 100 ++) and the vote of a rookie ?
If think it musn't..


+1 for this sytem ;)

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ShiNN

ShiNN

O RLY?!

sounds like a good idea, at least better than the current system. Maybe putting a limit to have 45 favs and an average rating of "8 out of 10" in the scale would represent the minimum requirements to make it to the highlighted submissions. I would also add this feature (which is used on other websites): if you wanna fav something you must write a comment (not too short) about it, otherwise you are not able to add it to your favourites. That somehow should force people to give a brief opinion about a wallpaper.

white-zero

white-zero

Left this part of the universe.

Kenzuke's bro is teh roxxorz XD

i don't mind the suggested rating system. But I think it will take some doing to get it fully functional.

Plus, I rather like the Today's Favorite Submission section to be thrown away. That could at least lessen the rampant rippings lately.

breadcrust

breadcrust

glowing city lights

could I add, I think lower level members (<25) should have their vote "capped", by this I mean that lvl <25 users can still vote from 10 to 0, but the actual vote that is counted by these users is limited by level and the current average vote, eg:
* level 5 user: counted vote would only be +/- 2 different from current average
* level 10 user: counted vote would only be +/- 4 different
* level 15 user: counted vote would only be +/- 6 different
* level 20 user: counted vote would only be +/- 8 different

this would be used to prevent lower level members for examples like this:
to prevent a user who joined only because a friend/family member wanted them to, from influencing the average vote too much just because their friend/family member asked them to vote 10. :)

i would like to see this happen too! :)

kenzuke

kenzuke

Victimized

Quote by ShiNN84I would also add this feature (which is used on other
websites): if you wanna fav something you must write a comment (not too
short) about it, otherwise you are not able to add it to your
favourites. That somehow should force people to give a brief opinion
about a wallpaper.


Nice idea to lessen those "omg,fav+" comments.. >_< and leave those real criticism. :D

Quote by breadcrustcould I add, I think lower level members (<25) should have their vote "capped", by this I mean that lvl <25 users can still vote from 10 to 0, but the actual vote that is counted by these users is limited by level and the current average vote, eg:
* level 5 user: counted vote would only be +/- 2 different from current average
* level 10 user: counted vote would only be +/- 4 different
* level 15 user: counted vote would only be +/- 6 different
* level 20 user: counted vote would only be +/- 8 different

this would be used to prevent lower level members for examples like this:
to prevent a user who joined only because a friend/family member wanted them to, from influencing the average vote too much just because their friend/family member asked them to vote 10. smiley

Great idea too! Although it made this more complicated.. XD but I think this would help the rating be more accurate because high level users should know what's good and what's bad... :)

crewcifix

crewcifix

Christian Boy

lol. looks like my small plight did not go on deaf ears.

looks like a good idea. *smiles* :)

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Sheqel

Administrator

Sheqel

*remembers AnimeOnline's failure with the rating system*

no, there will not be a rating system on Minitokyo.

ShiNN

ShiNN

O RLY?!

Quote by Sheqel*remembers AnimeOnline's failure with the rating system*

no, there will not be a rating system on Minitokyo.

=[ . At least something could be done to fix MT's current fav system tho, it's almost becoming an habit to see not so decent wallpapers making their way to highlighted submissions (not all of them hopefully, there are still good artist who manage to get their spot fair and square).

KorganoS

KorganoS

Busy atm ^_^;;

Quote by Sheqel*remembers AnimeOnline's failure with the rating system*

no, there will not be a rating system on Minitokyo.


well, I'm a member at AO, too..
I rarely post in their forums, but I regularly post my new wall works in the galleries. :)
i second Sheq's opinion on AO's rating system failure.

the rating system would simply sharpen the unhealthy competition among members. A very good wall can be brought down by some unresponsible members who post some spamming stuff as a comment and simply rate the wallpaper 1.00 out of 10.00. This is very much unfair. Of course, this action can be reported directly to the mods, but that means more and more work for them. Not to mention the subjectivity of a wallpaper rating system. Some people might think that giving a 6.00 rate is average, and anything above it as good, or extremely good, but the rest of the members might think that the submission doesn't deserve a 6.00 rating, by lots of other reasons.

ShiNN : yes, indeed, the fav system is going to the wrong direction, and the rally to get the most friends are a new developing habit of the members, but instead of turning into a totally unfamiliar new system, why don't we just improve the current available system?

This is my idea :
The current system can be improved in some ways... I think the best thing to deal with the mass of the instant-favers nowadays is by seniority judging.
Okay, I haven't thought much about the details, but this is the main idea:
A member submits a gallery item, if he/she got a fav from a higher level member, the fav would have a bigger effect (or weight) on the overall scoring point of the submission compared to a fav given by a lower leveled member than the submitter. That means, the fav would need to have a certain scoring point.
The scoring point of a fav can also be determined by the length of the comment that the fav'er give. The longer the comment, the higher the scoring point.
Basically, this would mean two things : either the submission becomes popular because it's a high-quality submission, or it's becoming popular because people make lots of comments (as a sign of significant public interest) on it.

One of the scenario that I have as an example would be :
- A lv 5 member submits an abstract wallpaper. A lv 50 member give a comment on the submission, it's a long, and constructive comment, but no fav.
- A different lv 5 member submits an ecchi wallpaper. Two lv 10 members and One lv 2 member give fav to the submission with minimal commenting.
- The result is that the former mentioned member's submission is higher rated than the latter... resulting in 'bumping' the submission to a more recogniseable state by public, if sorted by overall rating or scoring.
- If the scenario were to happen in the current system, the latter would be a more popular because of ecchiness-fav hype, and the former would be effortlessly abandoned because it received no favs at all.

This system also answers a related thread about 'Benefits that higher leveled members have'. This way, higher leveled members can be more active in giving constructive commentings, and n00bs can gain the proper criticism to advance.

This system, too.. would have some controversy and flaws as a side-effect... but I am not able to pinpoint what exactly, so feel free to add your thoughts or ideas about this. It's not a perfect system, but I believe we can do a lil brainstorming about it...

my 2 cents :)

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Sunira

Sunira

www.sunira.net

I dont see how it would be very different than the system now. The popularity contest would most certainly not be phased out if we switched to this. Right now, people give favorites to whomever they want to, what would stop them from giving high ratings to whomever they wanted to as well?

KorganoS: There are people on MT with very high levels who give out fav's like pieces of candy. I dont see a shift in the balance even if that system were put in place.

i dont think ratings should be implemented. It was a good thing to ponder though. ^_^

KorganoS

KorganoS

Busy atm ^_^;;

Quote by SuniraKorganoS: There are people on MT with very high
levels who give out fav's like pieces of candy. I dont see a shift in
the balance even if that system were put in place.


obviously, you missed out the 'comments' part, Sunira :) I wrote that comments should also play a significant role in my proposed system... because nowadays,.. it's undoubtedly true that ppl gives favs like candies... that habit can be neutralized by giving a certain scoring point or weight to the commenting system. Why do you think ppl rarely comment and just click +fav? because a long, constructive and detailed commenting would be as useless as a 'ZOMG sexy and cute, kthxbaiiiii +fav' or such...
I know that, because I often give such comments that went simply unnoticed by the submission author. (I know, because there's no improvements in his/her next submission.. and since then I decided not to comment on her work again).
With my proposed idea, commenting given by a more senior member would be significantly affecting the popularity of a submission, and I don't think a praising (just positive) comment would be able to be as long as the constructive (:criticising) ones.
But neways, thanks for the insight :)

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visit : [FRAGMENTS] - www.crash.inweb.dk

minimouzo

minimouzo

Papaya

i understand totally your point korganos and i think it's a better system than the other proposed here. But how can you technically evaluate the content of a comment ? i mean automatically (by a machine). I dont know how. With filters who check for OMG ; +fav ; ... in the comment string and which check the number of lines ? I don't know how such a system could be implemented.

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Taurec

Taurec

BAKA^2

Quote: There are people on MT with very high levels who give out fav's like pieces of candy.

I would like a member level reduction button, peeps who rate obvious crap with favs must be visually impaired I suppose.

But thank god euh Sheqel :P for the Report button *click, click *twitch* ACK! *click* Crap *click*

- Too bad stupidity isn't painful

Airrrrrrr

KorganoS

KorganoS

Busy atm ^_^;;

Quote by papyworldi understand totally your point korganos and i think it's a better
system than the other proposed here. But how can you technically
evaluate the content of a comment ? i mean automatically (by a
machine). I dont know how. With filters who check for OMG ; +fav ; ...
in the comment string and which check the number of lines ? I don't
know how such a system could be implemented.


Hi papy :) it's been a long time since we talked, isn't it?
Well, of course, we can't automatically evaluate the content of the comment... but at least we can implement word counter for the comment system. The bigger the word count, the bigger the value of the comment.
You might ask, 'how can we value a comment by word count only?' well, to answer that, simply, you cannot.
But, this comment-valuation system would probably be better than the current one because :
- taking customary into consideration. A long post usually contains either a long, detailed, and constructive commenting, a detailed appraisal (such as 'From the artistic point of view, this submission has a lot of excellent points that can be mentioned, first there are brilliant color combinations, second....... blah blah blah' and so on), or a mindless spam (zomgzomgozgomzgozmogzmgoz CUTEE!!!!!!oneoenoenone +fav.............). The latter can always be removed by the gallery directors.
- shorts posts mainly consists of praises, or members quick and simple appraisal (such as 'I like this submission a lot'), or similar approval, or spam (OMG sexy +fav kthxbye).

by the two conditions above, we can assume that most of the longer posts are usually a good and constructive thing..... while longer spam posts are tend to be quite rare (well, spammers won't bother posting long posts). So, we can also assume, that based on this post length analysis, we can decide whether a submission got crits, comments and recognition as it deserves, or not.
Thanks for the insight :)

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visit : [FRAGMENTS] - www.crash.inweb.dk

Taurec

Taurec

BAKA^2

A word counter is easy to circumvent.
unless some sort of baysian (anti spam) filter is in use, but that needs cpu cycles.
and if that doesn't work, a fav spammer could use a generic comment that fits every wallpaper and copy and paste it everytime when needed.

Isn't the job of a gallery mod to evaluate the wallpaper and not the grammar of a post / comment... especially if there are multiple comment pages, do you expect a gallery mod to read it all ??


- Too bad stupidity isn't painful

Airrrrrrr

KorganoS

KorganoS

Busy atm ^_^;;

Quote by TaurecIsn't the job of a gallery mod to evaluate the wallpaper and not the
grammar of a post... especially if there are multipe comment pages do
you expect a gallery mod to read it all ??


indeed... they should evaluate all submissions, but in the real fact, it's near to impossible. A significant amount of the quality controls are done by members, by reporting bad quality items, and what nots. I believe, the mods are severely busy sorting all the reports everyday let alone evaluating newly submitted gallery items, which can flow in like, hundreds to thousands of submissions per day. It's getting quite out of hand, really.
So, by simplifying the comment evaluation to a word-count system, it is up to the author of the artwork to decide whether a comment post is useful/proper or not. If it is not, then he/she can simply report it in to the mods, like usual. But keep in mind, that a comment has a decent value in their submission overall score point/value ... it is not entirely different to the current system, isn't it? In fact, it is similar, but much improved.

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visit : [FRAGMENTS] - www.crash.inweb.dk

Taurec

Taurec

BAKA^2

Quote: it is up to the author of the artwork to decide whether a comment post is useful/proper or not. If it is not, then he/she can simply report it in to the mods, like usual

This is interesting, I would assume that a lower skilled author is actually glad getting a comment and frankly wouldn't really care about the comments if their goal would be getting a higher level or getting into the fav gallery (at any cause)

- Too bad stupidity isn't painful

Airrrrrrr

KorganoS

KorganoS

Busy atm ^_^;;

Quote by Taurec

Quote: it is up to the author of the artwork to decide whether a
comment post is useful/proper or not. If it is not, then he/she can
simply report it in to the mods, like usual


This is interesting, I would assume that a lower skilled author is
actually glad getting a comment and frankly wouldn't really care about
the comments if their goal would be getting a higher level or getting
into the fav gallery (at any cause)


yes, it is a likely fact.
Another analysis :
- usually, a higher leveled members aren't likely to comment or react to a n00bish submission. But a well-made and eye-catching submssion would likely to attract them upon uploading to the gallery. Thus there's a bigger chance for quality submissions to go up in rank, and the low-quality ones would stay in the dust. Quality here doesn't mean it has to be groundbreaking at first, but more like, having visible potentials, and what not. So, if the author improve themself in his/her next submission, the senior members would likely to comment and/or fav it again, and vice versa, if the author doesn't show any improvements, it's up to the senior members to simply ignore the artwork, and this time, that submission won't hit the popularity chart for sure, unless there are lots of other members giving their inputs or comments or fav.
Any other ideas? ^_^'

For HQ anime pieces of art
visit : [FRAGMENTS] - www.crash.inweb.dk

Frosty

Frosty

: One Luv :

that would be a great consider I been doing that for awhile... XD but my grade scales goes from (Like a 9 to 10) lol. and you get a A- to AAA to base it on the effort you put on it. :)

I think favs are so over rated for ppl just begin to fav stuff to be nice to their friends or want a reply from the author to help them level up or something. *now that alot of noobs fav alot of stuff*.
but... yea.. like alot of ppl saying, I think the actual comments mades makes it more special. and if there is going to be an actual 1-10 rating system ppl are just going to do that instead of actually commenting on their artworks.

but then these days most comments looks alike ... so.. blah whatever works .. ^_^'

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hey, cool idea!! i think that it would make things a whole lot easier for almost everyone! (except for the programmers...like you said) I'd love to see it in action!

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