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Suggestion: Forum replies do not increase level

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Jim3535

Jim3535

Shinigami

It seems that a few members have misinterpreted what I am suggesting. I'm sorry I wasn't more clear.

I am proposing removing the level gain for when people reply to topics you created, not the leveling from posts you make. It's true that it's only half the problem, since people will still post tons of crap just to gain levels that way. However, it's a more fair compromise for people who don't post in the gallery.

Personally I believe in fewer restrictions than more. I think that this problem can be solved without more restrictions or the iron fist of the admins. The root cause of the problem is the level system itself. People feel the need to gain levels in order to gain respect, not look like a n00b, download scans or obtain forum features, or simply because they feel a need to gain levels that are out there. I find the way that so many site features are tied to level to be extremely obnoxious. It really makes people feel like 3rd class users; and I'm sure none of the admins/mods/elite users care since they are all at an extremely high level. Why should I have to get up to a very high level just to get a different skin? ..or control how many replies & thumbs are on a page, or get a shoutbox? I guess that would break the whole super-waller "I'm better than everyone else" club.

i think it's time to back off on the pointless restrictions (some are valid), and make this more of a community. People shouldn't have to gain levels just to have an enjoyable experience.

*ducks*

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Sinistra

Sinistra

MT Fanatic

Ah so your saying that the level system is a "Popularity Context" type problem. I don't see it that way I mean its totaly fair to rescrict stuff from the members to keep some Quality

anti-spammers | photoshop-lovers

Celessa

Retired Moderator

Celessa

Okaerinasai - Welcome Home

Quote by DarkAeonI would have to agree with Celessa any forum you go to your going to
have your "spammers" you can't have a "spamm Free" board unless the
mods are coldhearted and closes every topic they see. Its hard on the
mods to watch over the site with over 1,000 active members. Being the
admin of my own site and helping out on about 3 more sites I have see
my share of "omg I want to lock this" I don't know how hard it can be
to me a mod on MT but We all hate spam we all want it to go bye bye,
that just isn't going to happen

DarkAeon, you know clearly how much it discourages me to see topics that are lost in action, and in great numbers as well.

It's just that in my many years of moderating several forums, as much as I hate to admit it, even I would love to close these threads off the bat, but unfortunately take what the majority appeals to, and they will go against your will. **Sighs** So yes, it is evidently true that as much spam as it may be, the course of action at the end is... and is in fact, that there is nothing we can do about it.

That is one of the many small reasons why I stepped down. I believe that at the same time, there needs to be something to wake the administrator's attention.

This post is perhaps one that coincides with my own.

Quote by Archer79Perhaps a vote on the quality of the thread then?

More like a moderator's seal of approval. All existing threads count as they originally are, but the new threads aren't worth anything anymore unless the moderator considers it to be worth of some kind of sentimental value. I have presented this case to Shinsengumi, and I am willing to see his reaction on this.

If that is indeed possible, by clicking an extra option implemented on MT, new threads now created aren't worth anything at all - that is, posts received and posts made on these threads won't count unless the moderator gives it the OK sign, kind of like what the threads are in the Spam Lounge.

In that case, it might seem a little harsh because that puts the forum moderator totally into control, but really, should these useless threads have equal value compared to those that are somewhat decent?

I'm just stating, and I do not wish to oppose anyone in this way, but by pushing a forum moderator's state of approval, the level up system of MT would be much more fair that way.

I'm sorry, but I'm just disappointed that nothing can be done as we speak right now. **Sighs** You know what I mean, right DarkAeon? I'm sure both of us experienced forum admins know what it takes to get things working right, once again. The level system is the flaw that makes people spam too much. Take that away, like you would take the post count off the sheet, and believe me, it will be effective, no doubt.

That's what is amazing about this forum code in relations to level gaining, in comparison to other forums. Levels do play a role in the way people post, so there is yet hope for those who spam, the punishment of making spam, and they clearly don't deserve any better than those who do try hard to get where they are today. Believe me, more quality threads will be made this way, if new forum threads created aren't worth anything anymore, of course without the forum moderator's seal of approval.

"No matter where you go, no matter how tough life may be, just remember that always in your heart, you will still be loved."

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EternalParadox

Retired Moderator

EternalParadox

.:Enigma Mod:.

Just my two cents on the issue:

These past few days, I have noticed a sharp sharp increase in the number of new users making threads like crazy so they may gain levels, most likely to get to 10 so they can get the scans. Many of these threads are completely useless, even more are duplicates. However Shinsengumi close them and post up "please use the search box," he can only do so much and these threads have no end in sight. I really appreciate his great efforts to moderate the forums, but I think we all can see that he is getting overwhelmed. I myself have posted many "this is duplicate thread, here is the link to the existing one, please search to avoid duplicates"s. In fact, I have seen some members get duplicates closed, get told to use the search box, only to open up another duplicate 5 minutes later.

There are of course many interesting threads on current issues, as there are many users who are genuinely interested in intellectual discussions. I agree with Celessa that there needs to be a moderator mechanism in which only those threads having actual substance have any weight toward leveling. Yes it is harsh, but the forums are getting flooded with too many "oh who's better" and "what's your favorite this" and the "which is best/worse/funniest/whateverest" threads.

And plus, I think members who make duplicates should have a "time out" period that prevents them from creating any new threads, possibly even making new posts (but the latter may be a little too harsh). Too many people simply do not learn. I think shinsengumi can testify to how many people open duplicate threads without searching the forums even after having their threads closed for being duplicates. A time out period, in which no only are duplicates closed but they cannot open up another one, I think teaches a much better lesson. Some consequences must result from not using the search box when there are clear guidelines to do so. Failure to read those guidelines does not justify not following the rules. Follow them or be punished *evil laugh*

Just my two cents. And I do support the mod stamp O'approval idea. :)

EternalParadox
Previously the Forum, Vector Art, and Policy Moderator

Celessa

Retired Moderator

Celessa

Okaerinasai - Welcome Home

**Pushes all the junk out of the way**

The map co-ordinates are set and I have just got a push of support forward with these forum ideas.

Considering what has been said, I am very glad that many members are starting to realize that the height and value of the threads in these forums are truly getting ridiculous these days. After consulting with some forum moderators on other forums who decided to check this site out, it's no wonder why the negativity is secretly revolving around the corners.

That being said, the result is obviously simple. Nothing is being done to place some restrictions on these forums, as we speak. It's such a blind and simple concept that really can be solvable if done in a fast, and efficient manner.

As for EternalParadox, I'm glad you are pitching in your part of the advice, and thanks for reading my concern as well.

I kind of liked the moderator's stamp of approval idea from the get-go. If we only had moderators who were somewhat regularly active now, and having the time to actually go through some of these threads, that would be great. Even so, really, it's that simple to look at a thread and mark if it is worth something, or not.

I can mark pages of good threads and useless threads all in less than an hour. As a matter of fact, many members can. I'm sure you already have discovered that out yourself.

Quote by EternalParadoxJust my two cents on the issue:
These past few days, I have noticed a sharp sharp increase in the
number of new users making threads like crazy so they may gain levels,
most likely to get to 10 so they can get the scans. Many of these
threads are completely useless, even more are duplicates.

**Taps her forehead** That is affirmative. Weeks ago, there were nearly 2,000 threads on Everyday Life. That number has doubled in approximately 2 to 3 months. I last recorded yesterday's Everyday Life thread total to being around 4,200. It is approaching 4,300 right now. Wait... **Checks again**

Wao! It just passed 4,300 already! What the?

Okay - Record 4,312 threads right this instance, and look back at the number a day later. Someone tell me, is this a joke?

Sharp, sharp increases indeed.

Quote by EternalParadoxHowever
Shinsengumi close them and post up "please use the search box," he can
only do so much and these threads have no end in sight. I really
appreciate his great efforts to moderate the forums, but I think we all
can see that he is getting overwhelmed.

I kind of wished I would help him in the crusade, but you can see he is building mentality fatigue over these threads as well as we speak. He's a thread-closing monster, but one can only go so far. Punish members for constant duplicating? Well, I won't comment there.

Quote by EternalParadoxI myself have posted many "this
is duplicate thread, here is the link to the existing one, please
search to avoid duplicates"s. In fact, I have seen some members get
duplicates closed, get told to use the search box, only to open up
another duplicate 5 minutes later.

Yes, some members, but I'm not saying all as well, I agree. Some learn their mistakes the hard way, and others simply don't even care. It's hard to turn a blind eye on these troublemakers who don't even care at all, really. It's like they aren't scared away or anything like that. They are taking advantage over Shinsengumi's kindness and level-headed approach too severely. This is no joke to him, you know. I would hate to see a forum moderator burst in madness and anger over this sort of situation, though I could hardly see that in a couple of these people.

Quote by EternalParadoxThere are of course many interesting threads on current issues, as
there are many users who are genuinely interested in intellectual
discussions.

Agreed, that current issues keep the forums alive. I have also passed by threads that draw interest in the mind of the readers. So it's not all lost.

Quote by EternalParadoxI agree with Celessa that there needs to be a moderator
mechanism in which only those threads having actual substance have any
weight toward leveling. Yes it is harsh, but the forums are getting
flooded with too many "oh who's better" and "what's your favorite this"
and the "which is best/worse/funniest/whateverest" threads.
And plus, I think members who make duplicates should have a "time out"
period that prevents them from creating any new threads, possibly even
making new posts (but the latter may be a little too harsh).

Time out? Like as in - if your thread is closed, you can't make another one for hours / days? Sounds like a good plan. I never thought of this before. **Giggles** And thanks for agreeing with me that selective threads should be weighted upon more carefully. I clearly think its fair.

Quote by EternalParadoxToo many people simply do not learn. I think shinsengumi can testify to how many people open duplicate threads without searching the forums even after
having their threads closed for being duplicates. A time out period, in
which no only are duplicates closed but they cannot open up another
one, I think teaches a much better lesson. Some consequences must
result from not using the search box when there are clear guidelines to
do so. Failure to read those guidelines does not justify not following
the rules. Follow them or be punished *evil laugh*

**Pulls out her broken mod stick** Gah, darn magic wand. lol - ever heard the term, spare the rod, beat the child? A little harsh, but a kick in the teeth would prove most effective. It's not a hate war against new members, as this applies to members of all levels. However, this situation does fall towards the lower leveled members, which is why it is more stressed upon them. Not all are bad apples, but there's been a lot lately.

Quote by EternalParadoxJust my two cents. And I do support the mod stamp O'approval idea. :)

As long as a moderator decides to look over these threads from time to time, it doesn't seem like a bad idea at all. Trust me, people would definitely be kissing Shinsengumi's feet right now if that came true. lol - Oh, and as well, of course, more quality threads will be put into play. Who would want to post useless threads if they aren't worth anything? Not only won't they count towards levels, but they will get severely punished for spamming greatly in these threads. It's a nice 1-2 punch, really.

Feeling resorted to leeching the galleries instead because the forums are too harsh? I'm sure that's what capping downloads are for. That's a different story.

"No matter where you go, no matter how tough life may be, just remember that always in your heart, you will still be loved."

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Archer79

Nerdly Ghost

Just an example of how things work... http://forum.minitokyo.net/showthread/21517/?&page=1

This was clearly a junk thread. ...Now it has 94 replies (at time of posting), and the original poster now is level 12. I believe the level at the start of the thread was 6, but I'm not sure.

The linked thread isn't the only 'popular' thread this user created though...

...I will note, this thread has alot more merit than many other threads on MT. Several of them are duplicate threads, clones of other threads, posted very recently after someone else posted. ...Or worse, just a mere permutation of a popular thread, or in some cases the same question, just worded in the inverse context.... ...I'm a little annoyed by this, and it would be nice to see it stop.

butterflikysses

butterflikysses

~Diamond Dust Drops~

i'd be terribly dissapointed cuz i juss started talking in the forum a few days ago, n i have no art skills whatsoever

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EternalParadox

Retired Moderator

EternalParadox

.:Enigma Mod:.

Quote by Archer79Just an example of how things work...
http://forum.minitokyo.net/showthread/21517/?&page=1
This was clearly a junk thread. ...Now it has 94 replies (at time of
posting), and the original poster now is level 12. I believe the level
at the start of the thread was 6, but I'm not sure.
The linked thread isn't the only 'popular' thread this user created
though...
...I will note, this thread has alot more merit than many other threads
on MT. Several of them are duplicate threads, clones of other threads,
posted very recently after someone else posted. ...Or worse, just a
mere permutation of a popular thread, or in some cases the same
question, just worded in the inverse context.... ...I'm a little
annoyed by this, and it would be nice to see it stop.

This thread actually has IMHO a LOT more substance than many of the other threads.

Let's see, how many of the "who's your favorite this," "what's your opinion on that," "which is the best/ugliest/funniest/stupidest/what-ever-heck-est" threads. Way too many.

Each of those threads are duplicate of every other of those threads. Very useless.

Quote by CelessaTime out? Like as in - if your thread is closed, you can't make another one for hours / days? Sounds like a good plan. I never thought of this before.

Yes exactly. Anyone who doesn't read the rules and ends up posting duplicate threads deserve to get them closed. Then they deserve to get punished, in a period of a day or two when they can't do a thing in the forums. That'll smarten people up really fast if you ask me.

Quote by CelessaI kind of wished I would help him in the crusade, but you can see he is building mentality fatigue over these threads as well as we speak. He's a thread-closing monster, but one can only go so far.

Me too. I wish I could also help. And I don't want a great mod like shinsengumi to go nuts because of all these I-don't-read-the-rule-ers either. You're the man, shinsengumi. A really really good mod, one of the best, in all my foruming experience. And I say that most sincerely. :)

Quote by butterflikyssesi'd be terribly dissapointed cuz i juss started talking in the forum a few days ago, n i have no art skills whatsoever

If the mod stamp O-approval plan is put in place, then just engage in some real meaningful discussion. I'm sure there are plenty of relevant current issues, philosophical debates, etc, to which you can give your input.

EternalParadox
Previously the Forum, Vector Art, and Policy Moderator

Archer79

Nerdly Ghost

Quote by EternalParadox

Quote by Archer79
http://forum.minitokyo.net/showthread/21517/?&page=1


This thread actually has IMHO a LOT more substance than many of the
other threads. Let's see, how many of the "who's your favorite this,"
"what's your opinion on that," "which is the
best/ugliest/funniest/stupidest/what-ever-heck-est" threads. Way too
many.
Each of those threads are duplicate of every other of those threads.
Very useless.

Agreed. That's pretty much what I was trying to say.

Quote by toru07How about screening first the new thread topics, if it is approved it
get posted in the forum as a new topic. In this way topics won't be
duplicated and "non-sense" topics won't be posted. Many Newbies just
make any topics that comes in their mind to gain levels faster, or they
just not that aware of looking for related topics first before creating
a new one.

The problem there, mate, is that sometimes, it ain't the starter's fault the thread got spammy. Often, it starts when Spammer replies to said thread. Seeing that spamming is possible, other spammers come in. They're just like flies.

Quote by Jim3535I am proposing removing the level gain for when people reply to topics
you created

Signed.

And for that matter, Extremely Brilliant!

Is there some way to merge duplicate threads together? That way, when *points up* is implemented, post counts from Duplicate Thread won't add to the thread starters'(read: plural) level? No tussling for points, yeah?

Quote by Jim3535The root cause of the problem is the level system itself.
People feel the need to gain levels in order to gain respect, not look
like a n00b, download scans or obtain forum features, or simply because
they feel a need to gain levels that are out there. I find the way that
so many site features are tied to level to be extremely obnoxious. It
really makes people feel like 3rd class users; and I'm sure none of the
admins/mods/elite users care since they are all at an extremely high
level. ...i think it's time to
back off on the pointless restrictions (some are valid), and make this
more of a community. People shouldn't have to gain levels just to have
an enjoyable experience.

Trick here is to ignore everyone's level and judge them on how well they reply. Sure, you may see some bloke with half a bar full of levels but if said member posts like a drongo... well, that tells you enough, eh?

Some of the mods can get as mean as cat's piss but they're naturally good hard-working fellas, yeah? They mean well.

About members who feel that high level = respect: Can do nothing about 'em really except feel sorry.

thanks for the answer...i needed to know that! DOMO arigato!!!!

Alex204

Seeking Rakuen

I read this one through a few days ago and an idea just occured to me:
"How about seperating out the "level" value into two parts, one for art and another for the forum."

My thinking:
MT is an anime ART site. That is clearly how it started and how it should remain. The forum is just an extra. People who complain that the forum is the only way to boost their level should go someplace else. Having a high level only because of the forum does not stop you being a noob. If anything, it just makes you look worse.
My view is that starting a topic earns 0 points. (To make up for this, how about increasing the points for repplies?)
Which brings me to my idea: each member gets 2 (or more) levels for different activities (sounds a bit like D&D).

What do you think?

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"Rules are there to make you think before you break them."

sadotsu

sadotsu

Neko-sama

As for me, I start pointless threads in the Spam Lounge because I think it's fun and not just as a way to gain levels. Besides, some people might actually be interested. That's what a forum is for, right? If there's good discussion going on in those seemingly "pointless" threads, why do you have to close them?

Brownie the Cat

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