I am Pro-LIFE

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crewcifix

crewcifix

Christian Boy

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I'm dedicating this thread for the Christian-Fellowship not only because I'm part of the group but also because I'd love to express my faith and be truly Christian.

This thread is meant for people who are againts abortion and such acts. This is to share your points of views and opinions about morality and the like. Of course, if you'd ask me, I am againts such due to several many reasons.

Other people can share their points of view too. However, do not attack a person who has a different belief. Respect each other's right, please.

Thank you and have fun posting. :)

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  • May 27, 2005

asta

asta

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Quote by crewcifixI'm dedicating this thread for the
Christian-Fellowship
not only because I'm part of the group but also because I'd love to
express my faith and be truly Christian.
This thread is meant for people who are againts abortion and such acts.
This is to share your points of views and opinions about morality and
the like. Of course, if you'd ask me, I am againts such due to several
many reasons.
Other people can share their points of view too. However, do not attack
a person who has a different belief. Respect each other's right,
please.
Thank you and have fun posting. :)

Ang bait mo talaga kuya crew :)

Anyway I disagree with abortion like kuya crew, because everyone has the right to live :) and the baby has done nothing wrong so it's not nice to blame the baby for all the bad things that happened to the soon to be parent

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breadcrust

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would you mind expressing your reasons for being agaisnt abortion?

Im not too sure which side i am with this, but i lean towards allowing abortion more than agaisnt.

this is because Earth is already over-populated, and some people say things like "Oh, its great that you want to bring another beautiful child into this world, why wouldnt you?" discust me and clearly do not understand the real problem of too many people, or are just ignorant. if anything, Earth needs less people ripping it apart.

another thing that gets to me, is that some people say abortions should not be allowed, because the unborn baby is just another human, and should have a right to live. that might be true, but then most of these very same people buy cans of bug spray and kill all the bugs living around their house, and some dont even care about animals dying or the environment being destroyed. imho, we (the human race) have already done enough damage to the environment, and should be putting it before us in priority.

if you are "pro-life", I hope you are also doing something to help other lifes, as in ones that already exist (eg, people in starving 3rd world countries, and helping to save the environment, and earth from distruction).

[/rant]

  • May 27, 2005
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I am pro-choice because I believe a person has the right to decide whether or not they want to have a child. If the mother really doesn't want the unborn child, then the child becomes like a parasite to the mother. Personally, I don't like the idea of someone living inside of you.
hypothetical situation:
If your 14 year old daughter became victim to a serial rapist and was impregnated by him, how would you react? Would you want her to have that rapist's baby? Put your daughter under even more stress with a baby?

i guess the idea of pro- choice/life is very circumstantial. As it is now, the ideas are too general.

  • May 27, 2005
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Becoming impregnated by a rapist rarely happens. Just because it MAY happen, doesn't give everybody the right to kill babies left and right. How many abortions are because of rapists...not many, if at all, the majority of abortions are just because the baby inconviniences them. Pro-Life is the way to go.

True Story:
Newly-wed military sailor had to go out to sea because of the call of duty. He had just found out his wife was pregnant before he left, he was happy and had something to look forward to. When the ship sailed back in, and he re-united with his wife. He then found out she had an abortion while he was away. She didn't even ask him first. His heart was broken and he divorced. T_T

  • May 27, 2005
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Well I reckon that it is up to the person who is going through with it. It is cruel but I reckon that under severe medical cases, like if the child is going to die immediately or something that if the mother wishes to abort it than it is really up to her. As I was saying to my mum I reckon that it would probably hurt a lot more if she gave birth to a child only to let it die a few minutes later coz she would have developed some kind of bond with it. But that's only my opinion. I do think that it is cruel though.

I agree with HolyChaos that it is circumstantial.

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  • May 27, 2005

Taurec

Taurec

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@ heinketup Answer that question.

- Too bad stupidity isn't painful

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cmkmstephens

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Firstly, if the morons were having unprotected sex in the first place, they should expect this to happen, however even so, it doesn't mean that they should be forced to go through with a baby as it can destroy lives, socially, economically, and psychologically. I am fine with abortion. You can say you are pro-life, but if you use anti-bacterial handwash then dang, you're killing alot more than just one life.

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crewcifix

crewcifix

Christian Boy

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anyway, hmm.. i forgot to add a link to a site we in school used to go to. lolz. i think its http://prolife.com.ph just not sure about it though.

and yep. still prolife here. :)

-edit-

Quote by breadcrustif you are "pro-life", I hope you are also doing something to help other lifes, as in ones that already exist (eg, people in starving 3rd world countries, and helping to save the environment, and earth from distruction).


I am actually living in a 3rd World Country. And experience all that pain too. But still, nevertheless I am still ProLife. Like what you said, every child has a right to live. And like what you said too, that Nature has the right to live. Its only humans who seem to lean more to death than anything else that gets in the way for everyone else living. I'd ofcourse, would second my faith into that too. However, knowing several might no be the same, please respect my right as much as I would respect yours. :) Thank you. :D

2nd edit-
i am part of an active church community in our place and I always try to my own limitations to reach out and help as much victims possible. Few months back, the Philippines had a terrible disaster with a flash flood and mountain slide that killed a lot. I'm just not sure about statistics but I think its around 1000. Anyway, this happened before the Tsunami inccident and yes, I very much tried participating in giving out and doling out donations for them. Though I know my deeds alone are not enough. That's why everyone has to cooperate. :)

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  • May 27, 2005
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By the idea being "general", I meant it is hard to accept either side completely.
Pro-life law is in effect = Everyone has babies, no matter the age, financial situation, desire of parent, and all that stuff. Now think of the consequences of that. Think of the overflowing nurseries, the rise in diaper costs, and the increasing hardships that people, who made barely enough to feed themselves, have to go through by feeding a child as well.

i recently saw a tv show where they help people if they are in trouble. This woman was half-way through her pregnancy when her bf left her and kicked her out of his home. She lived in a small house with no furniture. She was also taking care of her mother who suffered from an illness. If the tvshow people did not help that mother, the baby would have been born into a world of poverty and suffering.

Another thing I would like to add- pro-life basically decides for a mother whether or not she will have that child. Making decisions for other people is just not right imho.

Pro-choice= People kill babies left and right, leaving fathers heartbroken (as mentioned before), ok my brain stopped working. >.<

there is no clear cut solution to this issue. its similar to arguing the existence of God.

in response to the "every child has a right to live" comment, while I do agree with that, I can't help but think how many children would waive that right if they knew what they were getting into. This goes into a discussion on improving children's lives and their upbringing to help them become "good" people.

  • May 27, 2005

crewcifix

crewcifix

Christian Boy

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Quote by HolyChaosPro-life law is in effect = Everyone has babies, no matter the age, financial situation, desire of parent, and all that stuff. Now think of the consequences of that. Think of the overflowing nurseries, the rise in diaper costs, and the increasing hardships that people, who made barely enough to feed themselves, have to go through by feeding a child as well.


maybe true. But part of being a Christian Advocate is also knowing when to stop. Though I am not sure about other Prolife ppl who don't have the right responsibility to discipline themselves and so yeah.

However, its only in the mother-baby situation that I think, a baby being killed has to be done. This in accordance to the teaching of the Catholic Church. I'm not sure with other Christian Denomination. :/ Eitherway, I really positively think that if we become responsible ourselves for our own actions, we need not need to kill an innocent child.

Furthermore, if such actions are necessary, Adoption Centers are always available. Just don't kill the child. So many other valid options out there.

Rape cases are an example for this. No one can be blamed by this truly. If you really don't want the child, then send it in an adoption house. Not kill.

We are trying to preserve life here and not be the source of killing it.

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  • May 27, 2005
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I frown on giving up children for adoption. If their parents died in a car accident, sure I can accept it. However, if the child was given UP for adoption, I think it has an even bigger affect on the child psychologically. It is just... cruel in my opinion...
"why do I exist and continue to exist?" blah blah blah

Please keep in mind these are all my opinions in my own perspective and I'm a nasty person lol.

  • May 27, 2005

crewcifix

crewcifix

Christian Boy

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Quote by HolyChaosI frown on giving up children for adoption. If their parents died in a
car accident, sure I can accept it. However, if the child was given UP
for adoption, I think it has an even bigger affect on the child
psychologically. It is just... cruel in my opinion... "why do I exist
and continue to exist?" blah blah blah
Please keep in mind these are all my opinions in my own perspective and
I'm a nasty person lol.


I very much respect other ppls opinions so I'd also hope you could respect mine. :) It's rather hard really, hmm.. maybe a family member perhaps can adopt the child. The thing here is how the child will be brought up. Though its a sad reality telling the child he did not come to this world in decent means, However, teaching him the value of Life and the reason he is actually alive today is rather an act of love. :)

p.s. you're avatar is adorable! XD .. lol, not related. XD

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  • May 27, 2005

redblitzkrieg

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Greatness, at any cost

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Im against abortion..
But if the future of the child is 100% hopeless and the mother dont give a damn about her child and the mother treats the child as a curse and not a gift.... so be it, abortion will follow.

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crewcifix

crewcifix

Christian Boy

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Quote by redblitzkriegIm against abortion..
But if the future of the child is 100% hopeless and the mother dont
give a damn about her child and the mother treats the child as a curse
and not a gift.... so be it, abortion will follow.


true true. The point of being Pro-life is not to get into such trouble. Having to deal with premarital sex and the like.

I had a classmate once who at the age of 16 had a child. Please don't treat this as a controversial issue. However, because of this, the child is not aborted though but instead, the girl keeps it and the guy leaves her. How rude?

So technically it should follow that if you're ProLife you know when to actually do things. Lol. I dun wanna sound so weird. But yeah because if you'd always think theirs a choice then chances are you'd be regretting in the end. Unless your a cold hearted bitch. lol. poor child.

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  • May 27, 2005

whatthebleh

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no man that is terrible. what happens if you get gangraped by some nasty guys and got pregnant? would you want to have that baby? would that child be appreciated being borne and hated by its mother from the start?
think.


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crewcifix

crewcifix

Christian Boy

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Quote by whattheblehno man that is terrible. what happens if you get gangraped by some
nasty guys and got pregnant? would you want to have that baby? would
that child be appreciated being borne and hated by its mother from the
start?
think.

already been answered. :) *please refer above*

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  • May 27, 2005

Anjhurin

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Anjhurin

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very interesting debate i must say...

okay here i go. since you consider cells to be life, you don't put on a condom because spermatozoids are cell and 'would-be' child. say you have AIDS (that's not so hypothetic, 40 millions ppl have it). then you just put a death sentence on your partner. god might loves life and not be pleased to have it restrained by plastic stuff, but i'm not sure whether he agrees with ppl being murderers either.

about abortion, i consider life as everything on the planet made of cells. then we're all mass murderers.
if you take human being as a more restricted definition, humans embryons are starting to acquire caracteristic features age 1 month of in-utero life ^_^. so abortion before one month isn't really killing a human.... when you've got ppl fishing with nets that catch even the little baby fishies, it's just as anti life as abortion.
then a baby can only tell he's different from his surroundings at age 1 year or so... before that he considers himself as a continuation of his environment / mother. he's not really human right? but that's another debate i guess, i don't want all babies under 1 year old killed :sweat:

so me is pro choice too. whether you want a child or not is up to you, you have to take into account your own capacities, if you'll be able to raise him / her properly. does god want ppl having babies so much, but the parents not being able to feed them? isn't that inhuman? or the parents getting violent because they were not prepared for it?
that's just my simple opinion, hope it makes sense. thx for raising the question :)

  • May 27, 2005

crewcifix

crewcifix

Christian Boy

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Quote by Anjhurinthat's just my simple opinion, hope it makes sense. thx for raising the question


no prob ;) that's why there's always the forum to talk about it in civil ways. ;)

i just hope I see other Pro-Life ppls too. :(

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  • May 27, 2005

breadcrust

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I can see some of the points agaisnt abortion argued here, and I think they are valid reasons, but I dont think abortion should be banned, rather, it should be controlled.

After reading some of the comments above, my thoughts are that abortions should not be allowed after the unborn child has reached a certain age, and (except in very rare/special cases) at least 1 other person needs to approve of the abortion other than the mother (this could be family, the father, a justice of peace?).

just stuff from the top of my head XD

  • May 27, 2005

lana

lana

Yume

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Just imagine if you are the unfortunate baby to be aborted. -Horrible.

Suicide. - Unjustifiable....
(But I don't hate those people who thinks suicide is honorable in their culture so I respect that.)

Murder/Massacre (person/people). - Inhuman.

We can consider ourselves lucky since we got to experience life, let alone pain and sufferings. But that's the point, life is everything about facing our fears and not let death be a solution to it.

Taking somebody's life is stealing God's authority over life. Any form of killing is robbing of someone's right to live and that's why we are commanded of the sixth commandment, "Thou shalt not kill".

In case of rape issues, the victim has all the unwanted effects after the incident. But the point is not to make the problem bigger. I know it's totally unfair but life doesn't end there. Although we quite understood that the baby will get all the hatred from his mother, but still we have to reconsider that the baby got nothing to do with it. The mother is hurting her child just because that child is the product of the painful experience she went through and that she doesn't desire having that child. And what's worst is resorting to abortion. This is absoultely wrong. Did the child ever wanted that rape incident to happen to his/her mother in the first place? No of course not. It doesn't mean that when you are the victim then she has the right to kill her own baby. The child is not the object of revenge. Let God give justice to that.

And if ever I myself got involved in this issues, I wouldn't find myself posting on this thread. Well, just take it for example.

I dunno if you'd agree with me but this is what I believe. Peace!

However, I'm still mushy with the issue about euthanasia. Anyone want to speak out about this? ^_^'

  • May 27, 2005

EternalParadox

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EternalParadox

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I am against abortion. However, to see my arguments against abortion, as well as all of the points discussed in this thread, such as pregancies resulting from rape, please visit this current thread on the issue of abortion:

http://forum.minitokyo.net/showthread/20573/

Please use the search box to avoid duplicate threads :)

enjoy :)

EternalParadox
Previously the Forum, Vector Art, and Policy Moderator

  • May 27, 2005

chaoticalchemist

chaoticalchemist

Chaotic World

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I believe that babies should live if you take their lives away isn't that like murdering?? um.... people m-u-r-d-e-r-i-n-g... sorry but i totally am pro-life! anyway i thnk the government shouldnt allow people to kill babies ... but i also respect your alls judgement of this circumstance.. so im just gonna stop right here... :pacman:

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when it comes i will take it face on no regrets,smiling and speaking to you just like i would regularly. Insult me ,i will never lose dignity and lose my true face.I will just peer deep in your eyes and say "ok". When the chaos just seems unbearable ill just look at you and smile.~Chaoticalchemist~~
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  • May 27, 2005

gilesaquil

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Kudos, Crew! ...hm...very interesting discussion. I am Pro-life. I'd like to raise a few points of opinion, though...this is gonna be rather long since I'm gonna be putting everything into just one post instead of having lotsa short ones...big gomen to everyone. ^^

(1) I think a lot agree on this...if the persons were still bf/gf, or parents who don't wanna have a baby yet (bottom line is NOT ready yet), then the solution would be not to have sex. There would be no need to get oneself into an unexpected mess and end up getting an abortion...even "safe sex" isn't 100% guaranteed all the time, and it's not worth risking. People just need to practice some discipline and self-control, especially when it comes to their sex drives.

(2) About the rape thing...sure, it isn't the girl's fault that she got pregnant, but it'd be even worse if the baby had to pay with its life to reconcile the problem. That'd be taking the easy way out. It may look practical, but if the mother really didn't want the child (as someone mentioned earlier, if she sees it as a curse than a blessing) then she might as well give it away...not kill it. But even then, victims may be very emotionally and psychologically scarred, and not in the right mind, so others (family, friends, counselling people) would have to help. It's not like she should suffer by herself...other people should help. Sadly, that's what the world nowadays lacks...a lot.

(3) Just to clarify...I believe that being "pro-life" doesn't mean that using antibacterial handwash is a sin already (to illustrate a point). There are some elements in the environment, especially nowadays, that could cause harm to people and to other living things as well (e.g. pests, pollution, harmful viruses and bacteria, etc.). Killing harmful bacteria (which, btw, comes back to your hands after an hour or so after washing ^_^) is different from killing people, or animals, or even trees for that matter. Even some animals are killed for food, right? Although I do think that people are the #1 proponents of golbal environment degeneration, we just don't go killing people left and right (although it's very tempting when I see the uneducated people of this country rallying for things that they don't really understand...poor, confused, misled fools).

Quote by holychaosin response to the "every child has a right to live" comment, while I do agree with that, I can't help but think how many children would waive that right if they knew what they were getting into. This goes into a discussion on improving children's lives and their upbringing to help them become "good" people.


Very good point. But, yeah, it'd be up to the parents to provide a good upbringing for the child. This is very cliche, but it's the challenge to all people, us included...to provide a better place for coming generations.

Quote by holychaosI frown on giving up children for adoption. If their parents died in a car accident, sure I can accept it. However, if the child was given UP for adoption, I think it has an even bigger affect on the child psychologically. It is just... cruel in my opinion...
"why do I exist and continue to exist?" blah blah blah


Another good point! ^^ It could be devastating for a child who was given up by its parents, and I respect your opinion. It's just that letting people live is better than letting them die...everyone has a potential to do good (though also a potential to do bad, but who could say where that person's gonna go, huh?). Sure, a lot of abandoned end up in the streets or emotionally scarred or depressed, but who knows? Maybe that person might end up becoming a saint, or someone who'd help countless other people while he/she is alive, coz he/she was deeply inspired by his/her condition? ^^ Wouldn't that possibility be enough to keep people alive? Just something to think about...

I'm gonna get really radical here...I hope nobody's offended by this or anything else I've said so far. I believe that there are many things in life that can't be decided upon, or chosen. There are limitations to our choices. We can't choose to live or not live; we can't choose to be born or not; we can't choose where, or when, to whom, or in what conditions we're born into...we just...are. It is important to realize that we should make the best of our current situation and keep hoping for the better, if not the best. In the same manner, we can't choose who has the right to live or not; we don't have that power, that right. In that context, life is not a choice...it's an obligation.
Life is also a responsibility. We are resonsible for ourselves, for others, for the environment. That's why we are given knowledge and free will (note: one cannot go without the other). We are (and should be) guided by our conscience, morality, and divine and natural law in making our decisions.
Married couples (and only married couples) can, however, choose if they do or do not want to have a child yet...it's a privilege only they enjoy. But with their decision comes more responsibilities, those of having a child. Thus, they should be prepared.

Ooh...very long post...hehe...really sorry. Hope you all don't get migraines for reading this. They're all my opinions and beliefs, though...and things to ponder upon as well. Many thanks again to crew! ^^ Good day to everyone! ^^

  • May 27, 2005

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