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Is Rockstar At Fault?

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ultimashower

ultimashower

Reppin' The Nice Guys

By now I'm assuming you've all read about the Hot Coffee mod for GTA: SA (PC version) that allows you to access a blocked off and unfinished minigame wherein CJ sleeps with one of his girlfriends (if you want to call it sleeping...).

It was made inaccessible by Rockstar for some reason, and burried in the game. Along came some user who made a mod making it accessible, and now the ESRB is going crazy, along with a bunch of politicians and the so forth.

Do you think Rockstar should be held responsible like politicians and others are saying? Personally, I think that the acts of an individual user shouldn't have any impact, as the mod is required to make the minigame accessible, not a button code. Rockstar didn't intend for anyone to play the game.

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EternalParadox

Retired Moderator

EternalParadox

.:Enigma Mod:.

Quote by ultimashowerRockstar didn't intend for anyone to play the game.

then they shouldn't have put the code there in the first place.

EternalParadox
Previously the Forum, Vector Art, and Policy Moderator

They shouldn't have put it there no matter what. Honestly, did they think no one was ever going to mod it? What was the purpose of leaving it in - especially if they KNEW they left it in? The game is controversial enough as it is. Puh maybe they wanted the publicity. "Any publicity is good publicity."

ultimashower

ultimashower

Reppin' The Nice Guys

Quote by EternalParadox

Quote by ultimashowerRockstar didn't intend for anyone to play the game.


then they shouldn't have put the code there in the first place.

I see where you're coming from, but when nearing dead line often a lot of code gets left in right? Either it's disabled or left incomplete. Look at the size and scope of the game.

Soul Reaver is a perfect example. The game ended up getting rushed out the door with tons of unused dialogue still on the disk.

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EternalParadox

Retired Moderator

EternalParadox

.:Enigma Mod:.

Unused dialogue is one thing. But explicit animated pornography is another. If they didn't want anyone to play, then why would they ever type the code? If they didn't type the code first off, then there wouldn't ever be a problem of a rush to release and something gets left in. Something as blatant as a porn scene isn't what you forget to delete.

EternalParadox
Previously the Forum, Vector Art, and Policy Moderator

A sex scene isn't exactly unused dialogue... its crossing the line and shouldn't have been developed...

ultimashower

ultimashower

Reppin' The Nice Guys

Quote by meiohsetsunaA sex scene isn't exactly unused dialogue... its crossing the line and shouldn't have been developed...

That's just it though. What line is there to cross? It wasn't even fully devoloped. For one reason or another, it was unfinished.

Quote by EternalParadoxUnused dialogue is one thing. But explicit animated pornography is another. If they didn't want anyone to play, then why would they ever type the code? If they didn't type the code first off, then there wouldn't ever be a problem of a rush to release and something gets left in. Something as blatant as a porn scene isn't what you forget to delete.

Never said anything about forgetting. It was unfinished (for both titles) and made wholly inaccessable. Foreign code has to be intorduced by downloading the mod.

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Spystreak

Retired Moderator

Spystreak

The Grim Reaper

If it was unfinished what was the big deal then. This kinda stuff happens game companies want things in the game but in the end have to remove it to maintain a certain ESRB rating. Goldeneye had these problems. In the multiplayer there was a level where you fight on a plane. In this level one of the planes wings was supposed to have a mounted machine gun. Somebody thought it was too violent and had it removed.
Then again why was Rockstar going to put something like that in the game in the first place.

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wolfco

wolfco

Prelate

I don't see how they can really be held accountable for someone else modifying their software. That would be similiar to making gun manufacturers responsible for people making their guns fully automatic (which I know has happened in the past). However, there is no way that sort of thing could ever be acceptable in their marketing sphere; so, you have to question their intent. If you could prove motive, then I would be fine with suing the crap out of them, but motive is always difficult.

If you would challenge me, then you must first stand before the Darkness. You must look into it and become it. You must fall before it and then reach out to encompass it. When it is joined to your heart, you must overcome its insidious temptation. You are ready to face me when you can betray even your own heart in service to your cause.
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ultimashower

ultimashower

Reppin' The Nice Guys

Quote by wolfcoIf you could prove motive, then I would be fine with suing the crap out of them, but motive is always difficult.

I would agree with you, if there was some sort of action as well. You can't sue on motive alone. However, if you're going for an idea that they were banking on someone modding their game... That would be an interesting case.

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Rockstar has already stated that they did not put that content in the game. And if they did put in something like that and found it to much and made it inaccessible. Then its still the modders at fault for rockstar had it to where you could not get to it. Here's a example. If somebody modified your tires with nails , so your tires would go flat would you go after the tire company for what happened? I highly doubt it. I see it as the maker of the mod is escaping responsibility. It is not rockstar’s fault for someone stealing their source code and modifying it.

Duuz

Duuz

Master of Disaster

The game has been out for so long now and some one just finds this on the PC version now. First off Rockstar has MA17 labeled on the GTA series of games. I think that covers it plenty. They have said the game wasn't made for people under 17. Even with the sex scene on the game it's not a big deal because there are other games out there with sex in them as it is.

This is a big deal about nothing. Any parent that would let their kids play such a game and then get bent out of shape about the content of the game. They are just a bad parent period. It's time for people to held responsible for their actions.

In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same.

I haven't seen any news reports or articles first hand, but based on what you've related here, ultimashower:

I don't know when it happened, but it seems that disconcertingly large elements of our society have completely thrown accountability and reason to the wind. Some people adamantly refuse to accept responsibility for their own actions, and instead place the blame any which place but where it belongs.

If someone has a problem with the content in question, the solution is simple - don't look at it. People would be amazed at how astoundingly easy it is not to read or watch something.

As far as parents concerned about their children seeing this go, let them pay attention to what their kids are doing. God help us all if parents should look in on their offspring from time to time.

But for me the bottom line is that while Rockstar might have left the aforementioned scene in the game, you are under no obligation to view it.

And lastly...I'm in awe, quite frankly, of the petty, Seinfeldian stierscheisse that people consistently make so much fuss about. I enjoyed the show, for the record, but there's a world of difference between the insignificant high school crap these people are whining about and real, actual problems. There are places where people die everyday because they don't have adequate medical supplies and/or facilities, or because they lack such basic necessities as water and food. Even in my own country, which is generally and correctly considered to be pretty well off, there are scores of genuine issues to be addressed without people dreaming up some inane 'cause' or another to 'champion'.

QVOD VITA FACIMVS AETERNITATE SONABIT.

Considering a game like Leisure Suit Larry and how it is way more risque, I think this is minor in comparison. Why not place blame on other companies that have done similar?

For the record, I'd like to point out that the Real Issue here is whether Rockstar should have rated its game AO (Adults Only) instead of MA (Mature). The issue is not whether games should have sex/violence; Those are just fine so long as the rating indicates their presence.

xshintax

Gif files are Compu$erve

I think this whole conteraversy has come up for 3 reasons:

1. Hillary Clinton wanting the 2008 election.
2. People don't like Black people being in video games.
3. The liberal media had unfinished buisness, and wanted video games to be deseased from the begining.

Wtf is your problem?!?

Why the f*** do I need to use proprietary filetypes in my signature and avatar? Stupid Minitokyo... STUPID COMPU$ERVE! Use png instead.

ultimashower

ultimashower

Reppin' The Nice Guys

Quote by MechRFor the record, I'd like to point out that the Real Issue here is whether Rockstar should have rated its game AO (Adults Only) instead of MA (Mature). The issue is not whether games should have sex/violence; Those are just fine so long as the rating indicates their presence.

Rockstar isn't allowed to rate it's own games, the ESRB does. That was the issue that I was talking about, because the ESRB is considering changing the rating to AO because of this mod, and is blaming Rockstar for this minigame's playability, regardless of the fact that a mod is required.

Quote by xshintaxI think this whole conteraversy has come up for 3 reasons:
1. Hillary Clinton wanting the 2008 election.
2. People don't like Black people being in video games.
3. The liberal media had unfinished buisness, and wanted video games to be deseased from the begining.

I'll agree with your idea that politicians use these 'issues' to gain favor, but I disagree with your idea about not wanting black people in videogames...


Gilt: You hit the nail on the head buddy. Videogames are simply used by politicians to blow a lotta hot wind about things that don't matter while diverting attention from the issues that do. I'd rather hear them rant and rave about the state of education or medical care, rather than what some lazy parent bought for their 12 year old.

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BorisGrishenko

BorisGrishenko

send spike

there is no reaonable way to blame rockstar for this. Having worked in game development, you probably have no idea what is entailed in removing this sort of thing late in production. The seemingly unrelated problems that crop up are vast and astounding. Literally. Most of the games I have worked on had a lot of crap that wasn't used at all on the CD for just that reason. People h4x0ring their way into it doesn't make it suddenly Rockstar's fault.

Personally, I am just convinced that politicians like to complain about Rockstar because GTA is a household name.

I am invincible!

Quote by ultimashowerRockstar isn't allowed to rate it's own games, the ESRB does. That was
the issue that I was talking about, because the ESRB is considering
changing the rating to AO because of this mod, and is blaming Rockstar
for this minigame's playability, regardless of the fact that a mod is
required.


Ahh, my bad.

Anyway, I'm inclined to side with Rockstar on this one. They removed access to the minigame and afaik never hinted at its existence. The ESRB might have a case re: upping the rating, but as for laying blame... ~_~

Edit: Dumb of Rockstar to lie about the scenes not being their own code, though.

breadcrust

breadcrust

glowing city lights

imho, almost anybody who knows what they are doing, and can get the mod to unlock this scene, would most probably already be able to download porn like what you would find in the game. Its not Rockstar's fault, its not the modders fault.

its just another "issue" politicians bring up and argue about because its what they need to do to maintain their popularity, and imho, the only people at fault are the parents allowing any children significantly below the recommended limit to play the game. what is it, ma15+? What kind of 15 year old that plays GTA hasnt already seen porn?

I know what boris is talking about. I've removed peices of code from my program, thinking they wernt being used, only for something to whine about it not being there.

ultimashower

ultimashower

Reppin' The Nice Guys

Boris, even though I have no personal experience with development, I know what you're saying and tried to get that point accross earlier.

Breadcrust, in North America you have to be at least 17 to get it. By then, the people have probably HAD sex...

HTML Coding Hates Me...

Quote by ultimashowerI'd rather hear [politicians] rant and rave about the state of education or medical care, rather than what some lazy parent bought for their 12 year old.

Hear, hear! I've made my point and feel no need to belabor it, but it's always nice to find small islands of sanity in the world.

To the specific issue of its rating, though - assuming for the sake of argument that I give half a crap about what the ESRB thinks of a particular game - I see no reason that the game should have been given as anything more than 'mature'. This is, again, based on what I've seen related by all of you here - but if significant modications to the game's coding are required to access this by-now infamous sex scene, I don't think that's Rockstar's fault in the slightest. One might as well indict someone whose Playboys were stolen from their personal safe for contributing to the delinquency of minors. For me it just doesn't track.

QVOD VITA FACIMVS AETERNITATE SONABIT.

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