The many changes at Minitokyo...

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SilentMasamune

SilentMasamune

I'm all washed up. . .

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In my nearly 30 weeks of being at Minitokyo, possibly being an MT veteran considering I know very much about the community and the way it functions, I've noticed many changes here at Minitokyo. Some of the changes were for better, and many in my opinion were for worse. While Minitokyo clearly provides plenty of information to help settle down, many members don't take advantage of that information to prevent themselves from getting into trouble. The rules are being broken more and more often, and so many members are degenerating in status as of late. From what I've seen just by browsing in other forums in the shadows, many of the members who are part of the site are not respectful towards others, especially new and upcoming members. Minitokyo, as you could see, is not like that.

From what I've been hearing lately, there are members who like to talk behind other members' backs despite their submissions, threads that are created, their attitudes, or anything of the like. The thing is that someone is bound to find out eventually, and it could cause another member to get into trouble, which we probably don't want to happen. That tends to build up hatred among members. Yes, we're human, but we should at least exercise some patience and respect for other members regardless of what they think.

As for the submissions, there are still many members who are submitting gallery items which don't fit the minimum criteria for being accepted as a submission. There are also some dedicated members who would like to see a change here at Minitokyo for the better in terms of the gallery items because in the recent weeks, there haven't been too many good submissions to be completely honest. I know I'm not the best wallpaper artist around, but at least I try and I hope to get better and better with each submission that I make. It shouldn't be about submitting something similar or worse in content; take the tips that are given and jot them down so that next time, you could submit an improved wallpaper to Minitokyo. This is something I have yet to see.

I submit many reports a day in regards to the threads and the gallery items that do not meet the standards of the Minitokyo policy and the forum guidelines. I've never submitted so many reports before the last recent weeks. However, it's not the reports that help make the community better. We make the community the way it is, and therefore, it is us who would make the community improve if we choose to. We have that power. There are some extra powers the mods have when they clean up the galleries and the forums, but we have the rest of the power to make the difference, and it could all start by looking through the forum guidelines, the FAQ and Policy, and the Noob Bibles.

Minitokyo has wonderful members who are willing to sacrifice their time to help out those who are in need of help, and that's how role models unfold here in Minitokyo. I'm sure that members who are looked up to for helping other members out, whether it is in the forum or with a gallery comment which doesn't sound as if the member is angry or upset or even just saying nice, for pointing them in the right direction in terms of getting them started or showing them something new, or just helping them through the steps in their submission, feel better about themselves, but it shouldn't make them feel superior over others.

Lastly, I would like to say that I've noticed so many endeavors to revolutionize Minitokyo from the sidelines. In my opinion, publicizing a revolution isn't the best thing because that creates tension among members who do not agree to or advocate the revolution, and in additon, when you think about it, that kind of gives Minitokyo a bad name. All it takes is a little bit of dedication and trust in your fellow members who will eventually improve from making their mistakes. Everyone has the potential to get along here at MT so we could prevent the drama that sometimes unfolds. I may not be a moderator, but I've observed many activites and went through tough times to get to where I'm at today. ;)

What changes have you noticed during your stay at Minitokyo? What are your opinions on my statement? This thread is intended to be a discussion and only a discussion, and, like a moderator would, I trust everyone not to flame each other in this discussion. Have fun. :)

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  • Aug 08, 2005
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Great discussion mel^.^
Now..to topic..

What changes have you noticed during your stay at Minitokyo?

Basiclly its these..
+Communication
+Being Respectful
+Keep the galleries neat and clean
+keeping rippers out
+spamming
+vulgarity
and many many more..
It seems people basiclly dont give a damn about anything on this website
They make this seem like well..a playground..which is not. This is a place where people talk with other people..not say they are fat..or gay..or anything..
Be respectful>.<
What do you think of the information I stated above?

I think you stole some of that information from me in AIM..you sneaky fox XD

I trust everyone not to flame each other in this discussion. Have fun. smiley
If they do that..they are just as bad as the people who trash up minitokyo^.^

Sunnyd29

Sunnyd29

derka derka

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Thats so true. I've only been here for about 15 weeks, but I've seen the threads in the forums erupt with arguments and I've seen people take comments on their wallies and scans the wrong way. I've been booted off of people's FL's and I've had to apologize profusely to them in order to get back on their FL. I know exactly what you mean. Also, I have seen people's scans and wallies go unnoticed and recieve less recognition. You are absolutely right about everything you just said.

What do you get when you cross an owl with a bungie cord? My ass!! WAHA WAHA WAHA!!! - Kung Pao The Movie

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Quote by Sunnyd29Thats so true. I've only been here for about 15 weeks, but I've seen
the threads in the forums erupt with arguments and I've seen people
take comments on their wallies and scans the wrong way. I've been
booted off of people's FL's and I've had to apologize profusely to them
in order to get back on their FL. I know exactly what you mean. Also, I
have seen people's scans and wallies go unnoticed and recieve less
recognition. You are absolutely right about everything you just said.

Yes exaclly ...that is what is happening to a lot of ppl now-a-days..which is really unecessary.
That why im taking a break for a while from here lol

kaolla-kake

kaolla-kake

Guitar Goddess

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What I've noticed...is a lot of people don't know how to use "search". I mean...it isn't that hard to search a thread before submitting. The forum has been racked with closed threads lately and I think it's completely lazy of the people starting the threads to not take the time to search what they're posting befoe they actually do it. I can't even tell you how many "what is your favorite gundam series" threads I've seen >_<. And they always use the same excuse..."well I didn't know there was a thread for this". That's what search is for! Also, if they maybe took time to read the noobs bibles or maybe the RULES...they would know how to properly post threads. That's my 10 cents, take it or leave it...it's on the ground...pick it up!!! XD

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Ryan19

Ryan19

Return of ME

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What changes have you noticed during your stay at Minitokyo?
==>Communication
==>Helpful and repect to each other.
==>Spamming
==>Vulgarity
==>Relationship (if possible) :P
and others (sounds like as if i'm copying from the above post >.<)

What do you think of the information I stated above?
hmm...sounds like sheqel sensei XP

Again, like a moderator would, I trust everyone not to flame each other in this discussion. Have fun. smiley
Yeah, i just make everyone fairly as they are. Even they got banned, we advise them so they can learn. Overall it's their behavior.

True words: Not everyone is perfect in this community. Sometimes they can behave in their own manner. We just make sure they know we're helping them. Unless they listen to our advise, or else they would've gone out of minitokyo.
And as for nooby, I believe that many user nowadays often take things too easy, that they'll be lazy to read them, until they get spoon fed.

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  • Aug 08, 2005

benjaminchia

:express yourself:

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I am not exactly a heavy user of this website, so what I can say would just be based on how often I use the website and which part of the site I would normally use.

what have you observed so far?
I couldn't normally see the flamming / talking behind other people's back etc. sorry i am not too much into forums..

but in reality such do happens in large community like minitokyo. and when such things do happen, we want to know that there are reasons why they happen and it is hard to change the way people think .

as a normal user
.. the best way would be of coz stay out of the boundaries of the cross-fire when such things do happen.

what have I observed so far?
.. well I do see a lot of people's works improving significantly along time. I prefer not to focus on (pay attention) to things that seem irrelevant (like framing/ stabbing / talking behind other people's backs).

.. so it comes down the user himself/herself.
does such things affect him/her and how much?
if he/she does/can take actions? (notice the fact that there are more and more users everday) is it possible to change the way they act?.. i doubt it.

just my point of view... ( all depends on the user )

what do I think about the information you have stated?
it's very true .. so what's new?

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  • Aug 08, 2005

EternalParadox

Retired Moderator

EternalParadox

.:Enigma Mod:.

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I believe there needs to be a change in how the rules are handled. Simple posting it at the sidelines and then providing a casual "oh btw, the rules are over there" is not enough. That's the reason members don't follow the rules. They are not made to at least read the rules once. The noob bibles, forum guidelines, and the support page have become accessories rather than the overarching principle under which MT function.

Certainly, the rather limited search capabilities currently is a drawback. But with the upcoming implementation of MT3 and the revised search mechanism, that would be even less of an excuse. Again, the degeneration of the forums is due to the disregard for the rules, as people either do not read it, do not want to read it, or read it and want to break it.

Therefore, I once again voice my support for an automated punishment system. Just as in any system of jurisprudence, offense have consequential ramifications. As is, MT does not have an effective system to control and punish those who do violate the rules. As hidden's other thread has mentioned, only those spammers/flamers who spam rapidly within short time spans actually gain attention. Yet they only make up a very small minority of spammers. Most others create 1 or 2 spam threads a day, get them closed, and then come back to do it again tomorrow. The only consequence for their spam is the thread closure, nothing more.

If we do have an automated punishment system, those who spam, flame, violate rules, disrespect others, etc. will automatically experience an immediate change in status, such as the Muted status for the forums. The initial decision of what constitutes spam/flame/rule violation still rests with the moderators, but the punishment for such violation once determined will be equal for all those who commit them.

My view point must sound very harsh to many. However, it is my firm belief that with every violation of the rules there must be a set order of consequences. Again, in jurisprudence, the law serves to prescribe what is allowable and then to prescribe the punishment. The jury or judge determines guilt. In a similar fashion, the moderators should determine the guilt of rule violation, and then BotChii will hand out the proper status change or ban based upon a set policy that everyone must read at time of account registration.

That is the best way I believe we can fashion at least the MT forums into a much more organized, streamlined, and discussion oriented forum. As shinsengumi noted in the Forum Guidelines:

Quote by shinsengumiOverarching Principle

Topics in the forum should be actual discussions, and not just a set of disconnected responses to a poll.

I am not very qualified to comment on the galleries, being no artist and having submitted nothing.

EternalParadox
Previously the Forum, Vector Art, and Policy Moderator

  • Aug 08, 2005
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Speaking of this I have once seen someone submit Hentai before. x_x That was scary but on with the subject.

Yes I have noticed that some of the members around MT have been quiet rude. They seem to be the new guys not saying that all the noobies are bad but there seems to be some bad mouthing ones out there.

For the submitions at time there really was some bad wallies. Just didn't meet MT standerds I guess but not really gonna say anything else about it cause I'm not to much of a gallery looker myself. But I think it's been getting better. Some of the new guys are submiting walls that aren't to bad. I find myself giving them a fav. :)

But hasing everyone gone through that N00bie stage? For the vets I'm saying. I mean I was kinda like that myself the first time I came here. But I've learn to shut up and not say all what I want to say. Cause it might bring up a problem.

Anyway that's what I think

  • Aug 08, 2005

SweetGrl

SweetGrl

doki doki

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Wow!! Great discussion!! ^^

What changes have you noticed during your stay at Minitokyo?

* People keep on adding and removing you from friendlist
*People submmiting ecchi or hentai which is gross!
*Submmiting walls that are not as good to go to the top faves
*People are not being respectful

What do you think of the information I stated above?

Your information was very good!! Good job!! ^^

Live to Love, Love to Live~~
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  • Aug 08, 2005

animefreak3

animefreak3

Serpentarius

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Fix yourself before trying to fix others. If this is done I foresee a better community that needs less, and not more policy. I see here advoceted auto punishment. IMHO this only serves to break up communities.

Follow Mel's advise. He's acting as a positive role in his actions, do your best to follow in his example. Respect others, have patience. The rest will come of its own.

We begin and end in nothingness. Our darkness is confronting our ultimate nature, for nothing can come from nothing. We must sow the wind and reap the void, since the now is all we have. Together, we walk in darkness.

  • Aug 08, 2005

EternalParadox

Retired Moderator

EternalParadox

.:Enigma Mod:.

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Quote by animefreak3Fix yourself before trying to fix others. If this is done I foresee a
better community that needs less, and not more policy. I see here
advoceted auto punishment. IMHO this only serves to break up
communities. Follow Mel's advise. He's acting as a positive role in his
actions, do your best to follow in his example. Respect others, have
patience. The rest will come of its own.

The auto punishment will only kick in for those who do violate rules. People who don't break the law never gets thrown in jail. So those positive members never hear from BotChii anyways.

I do not see my suggestion break up a community. I find it a necessary safeguard against allowing those spammers to overwhelm the rest of the positive aspects. It serves only to remove the bad, not hinder the good.

EternalParadox
Previously the Forum, Vector Art, and Policy Moderator

  • Aug 08, 2005

KyoFan368

KyoFan368

I'm going to take a...zzzz

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I've seen a lot of things that have changed for the better. I've been here for 18 weeks and I still feel like I'm new here!!! I would love os see new walls that have been submitted by people and that is the one thing that they could fix on here. In the group pages instead of haveing the favs in the submissions area you could put the newest submissions from the members in that group! I don't have all the time in the day to be here on MT but when I'm here I try to treat everyone with respest but I have experienced myself the cruelty of some of thoughs people! I have a police which is forgive and forget. We all just need to relaxe and calm down. If someone doesn't like the way you did something and they are on you FL or even if they aren't on your FL then take it as constructive critisizum and move on. I completely agree with you mel! We just need to take the little kindness that is still in the world and use it!!!^__^ :) :D :pacman:

-The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt with the heart. ~Helen Keller :D
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Terra-chan

Terra-chan

Crazy Lazy Workaholic

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How would you implement an auto-punishment? Have a system that scans the forum every hour for duplicat threads within a certain time period and so forth? I think that'd be a hassle that would really slow down loading the site ~_~ Another option could be that members could instill temporary punishment on Spammers by clicking a button. Like someone is rude in your guestbook or on a submission, you could click a button and that person could get "Temporary Mute Member" for an hour or two and it stacks the more people report a person for their actions. So then people would have immediate punishment which is good enough for a warning. And if they aren't around when the punishment occurs they could get a notification saying "You have been given Temporary Mute Status" and another notification when it comes off.

And if someone posts a serious stolen wallpaper or hentai content they can be reported and given a "Watched Member" status. Saying that they violated the rules before and if they continue to do so they are liable to suffer more serious consequences. So they're given a parole in a sense.

I've been arounf for 40 some weeks I guess and shortly after I got here they implemented customized userpages

I notice that a lot of groups are being made lately to promote things that are new, have a lot of effort and deserve to have favorites for their composition, not just their content. I guess this is part of that "revolution"

As for forum deterioration, it's expected when a forum gets really big, it really can't be helped. THe bigger a forum is the harder it is to keep track of everyone and everything.

I actually think that noobies should be given a chance. Lots of noobies will submit bad walls, but if we don't let them have those wallpapers posted and get feedback, they're never going to improve much, are they?

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I have been here just a few days; mostly observing and taking it slow-cos i dont wanna accidentaly offend anyone or break rules (guidelines,actually) of decent behaviour. So beeing a noob,maybe my observations dont have weight of someone who is a lot longer member of MT-however i have noticed that negative things you all mentioned and in increasing frequency (well it had to be if i noticed it in just a few days :( )
I can only add some of my thoughts purely from noob wiewpoint :
*whatever people say; noob bibles and various help threads and tips are easy to follow,find and understand
*even disregarding abovementioned,there are many members old and new ready to help and advise people when they make a mess :) - maybe things are going for the worse but majority of members here are great people
With that said i can only point out that there should be strict punishments for all people that repeatedly break the rules-not because those rules are sacred and must be obeyed or else... ;) but because they are hurting all other members with their behaviour and diminishing MT by making it their personal playground/arena...and woe to all others :(

  • Aug 08, 2005

PwnOXz0r

PwnOXz0r

The One

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I vote SilentMasamune for Philosopher of the year. Good thing I'm not necessarily new. I don't want people bashin' on me like that. That'd suck.

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  • Aug 08, 2005

cifiryn

cifiryn

~ Erase & Rewrite ~

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Interesting thread!
I've been here for about 13 weaks, and one of the main reasons I joined MT was because of the galleries. I was amazed with the high quality wallpapers one could find here.

Lately, I find that lots of the wallpapers are very low quality. I feel sorry for the people that made those, they are probably "beginners" trying to improve... but still, I think they should wait and practice a bit before submitting something.

i myself can do wallpapers, but let's be honest... they suck, which is way I do not submit them.

An other thing that I do not like, is when people is rude.
When I first joined, there was no one mean or rude. No one treated me as a dum "noob", but now, peoples attitude seems to be a bit different. I'm not saying that suddenly MT is packed with rude people, it's just that some people seem to be less "friendly" than before.

And is it me, or a lot of people use other languages in the forums?
I could have written this post in spanish (trust me it would have been much easier!!) but what's the point?
It's fine if it's a comment in the post, a line or so... but if you write the whole post in your languege, how many people do you think will actually understand it..?

And, one last thing... duplicate threads. I wonder if people even bother to cheak?!? It's not that hard...
There are also a lot of pointless threads.
I'm not saying that all threads should be "profound" threads about philosophical issues, but at least have some sense...

But oh well, I'm are not perfect... I did one favorite thread once... and probably my english is not the best in the world, but I'm trying to imporve :)

  • Aug 08, 2005

anji

anji

Retired waller

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I don't really know the situation of the Forum since I don't go there often.
But I can talk about the gallery thing.

It seems to me that the new submissions goes worse and worse... I just browse the section of new submission this weekend and hardly find two or three submission that I would like to fav.
I'm maybe a bit demanding, but I can't stand to see people say that it took 3 hours make a wall when I work on mine for at least two weeks.

I don't think these people are all to blame, I know some that really want to improve their self and see some really make improvement. But the community don't help these guys at all with commenting "this is good" or "the girl look nice". At least, point one thing that the person should improve XD Or point things that you especially like and why....
I saw a lot of average walls with no constructive comment at all.

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Sunira

Sunira

www.sunira.net

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Certainly the frequency of new submissions has increased greatly. My last wallpaper didnt even stay on the recent wallpapers page for 5 minutes. I certainly think we can afford to put up an actual human filter. If we hire some good wallers(at the discresion of the gallery directors) we can manage the wallpapers and certainly it would kill the "omg botchii is a wh0re who deletes all my walls and it had X favs and X comments!" threads since their walls didnt even make it past the filter.

The forum is almost 70% spam, and half the non-spam issues are just repeated political bilge(abortion, gay rights, bush, war..etc).

miyoko-kun

miyoko-kun

the happy l'il anime place

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well... if only started here about 3 dayago but you make a good point. you took a lot of time to write that and i know you meen everything you wrote. well good luck with the mt veteren thing. and i hope more people are touched by this message :)

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miyoko-kun who loves everyone and excepts them 4 who they are. oh and and thanks sumomo-

  • Aug 09, 2005

EternalParadox

Retired Moderator

EternalParadox

.:Enigma Mod:.

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Quote by Terra-chanHow would you implement an auto-punishment? Have a system that scans the forum every hour for duplicat threads within a certain time period and so forth?

I do not mean that there is an automated scanning of the forums. What I am saying is that there be an automated change in member status after the moderator closes the forum. It would be the same way the when a moderator processes a report, BotChii sends you a feedback message. The moderators still decide which thread to close and which post to delete, so there would be no slow down in the browsing speed. The only change is that when the thread is closed, the member who created that spam thread gets his/her status changed to a muted member.

Quote by Terra-chanAnother option could be that members could instill temporary punishment on Spammers by clicking a button. Like someone is rude in your guestbook or on a submission, you could click a button and that person could get "Temporary Mute Member" for an hour or two and it stacks the more people report a person for their actions.

That would only encourage flame wars and "mute member" fights. people would just abuse the system and mute whomever they don't like. My proposal leaves the actual decision power within the hands of the moderators.

EternalParadox
Previously the Forum, Vector Art, and Policy Moderator

  • Aug 09, 2005

Terra-chan

Terra-chan

Crazy Lazy Workaholic

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The probably with making everything have to go through a human filter is that it'd probably be days before you can share your work and there will always be biases and someone would have to supply the time to actually check all of these things! It's good enough that there are people that sift through submissions on occasion and do reports.

I think some very nice wallpapers get deleted from here just because they aren't elaborate masterpieces of 80 layers with flilters and patterns and color variations and uber-shiny edited scans.

Heck I know I have some gallery items that are poor enough to be deleted that have had less work put into them than wallpapers that I have had deleted. I consider deleting them myself, but I don't because they're actually padding very small galleries as it is. I may get around to redoing them some day even. I even had my top 2 wallpapers deleted a few weeks ago, but I was happy to see them go because I hated that such wallpapers of mine were what was considered my "best" *gags* I'm all for sharing wallpapers of various quality I just think it's crazy that most people favorite wallpaper content more than wallpaper quality (aka popular series or a sexy woman get more favorites than anything else even if the quality is bad, people don't care because it's such and such and they like that)

And @ anji. I don't think time spent on a wall is a big issue. Half the time I spend on my walls is experimentation and thinking "does this work? Should this brush go here? maybe I should try this brush?" Some people are good at putting their ideas together quickly and doing quick preparations. I generally don't count doing wallpaper vectors the few times I actually note how long something took. Working on the vector can be 2-3 times longer than the time I spent on the wall I wanted to use the vector for. Does taking less than a day mean my wallpapers are bad? Does taking two weeks mean your wallpapers are absolutely awesome and everyone should love them? I don't think so. Is being able to actual know what every function of your image program work and how it affects an image with such and such settings and being able to use them in every way possible ensure that a wallpaper is "good"? Does not knowing how to do much with an image program make a wallpaper "bad"? These things are all relative. There is no "good" and "bad" when it comes to these things.

If people who don't know much about making wallpapers can't submit their walls for feedback, how can they get better? I know that I was lost in the dark before I joined theUnderappreciated and they started giving me feedback and telling me the tricks of the trade. My walls have improved but my walls before aren't really bad, are they? They just have less experience behind them.

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bromithia

Retired Moderator

bromithia

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Minitokyo has become a slaughter house for wallpapers. End.

toru07

toru07

Guardian of the Deep Abyss

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Quote by anjiI don't really know the situation of the Forum since I don't go there often.
But I can talk about the gallery thing.
It seems to me that the new submissions goes worse and worse... I just browse the section of new submission this weekend and hardly find two or three submission that I would like to fav.
I'm maybe a bit demanding, but I can't stand to see people say that it took 3 hours make a wall when I work on mine for at least two weeks.
I don't think these people are all to blame, I know some that really want to improve their self and see some really make improvement. But the community don't help these guys at all with commenting "this is good" or "the girl look nice". At least, point one thing that the person should improve XD Or point things that you especially like and why....
I saw a lot of average walls with no constructive comment at all.


I agree on this one..... the gallery is a mess. Whenever I visit it I can only pick 1 to 3 favs, (sometimes none at all) and why do some members says its good when it really isn't. I know it may sound bad.... but it's better to say the truth or Mt members are always trying to be so nice. Well its their opinion, maybe I'm also being a bit demanding. :hmpf:

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