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The many changes at Minitokyo...

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Yue-Horrishino

Yue-Horrishino

Tsubasa Mahou

It's true that i've posted some threads that were ''almost'' = to others but it was because the name of the other threads had nothing to do with mines or because i couldn't find them in Search... i often search because of not posting threads which are similar to others...

Now for walling thats a diferrent thing, when i enterd MT for the first time i knew i hanted to do walls but i never thought it was so dificult, but still i know that is the fun part... so you all agree that the best walls came from more experience and the worse walls came from bad experience (or from Paint . lolllllllll) ... i know that some of the walls i posted here weren't good enough, i stayed mad of course, but thats just i sigh that i have to get beter, but until then... i'll continue to do my simple walls...

I ask for all the new members who just started to do walls now, that the other members be pacient, please... and to help them (me too) to get better...

For the changes, well i must admit that MT was changed in some ways.... Like Silent Masamune said, ''some for better, some for worse''...

The groups are growing a lot since my first day were...
The members too... (i'm staying bewind ^-^' )
We got lots of new members everyday....
And with that MT grows ...
but.......
I don't know why but it seems that some people like to start conflits ... the other day i was passing for one guestbook (which i won't say from who, because of that person) and i member calling her/him *names*... Well i hasn't pleased of course so i went see who the person was ... Guess what i found '' Banned Member ''


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GintheTwilightswords

GintheTwilightswords

Burn away the regret and dread.

Dammit, beat me to the puch Mel, I should psot my thrad about this lil topic last week. Anyway, you make some good points, but there some that you have yet to touch up on. I've been here about a year now, and since then MT has changed drasticly over the past fours months, to me anyway, adn it's compeletely ridculous how some of the people here,members and mods alike, have been going about things. I would elaborate more on this, but I run short on time, I'll be back to comment more tomorrow.good day

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Dear sister you shall always hold a place in my heart

inuyashalove04

inuyashalove04

inuai-chan

Hi SilentMasamune, excellent thread...you covered alot of things that have changed here. I, like many others, have noticed disrespect to certain members and arguments that break out over stupid and pointless things in threads. People just need to chill out and keep the idea that, 'Hey, this is just someone's opinion, and NOT the truth.' over the subject. Kind of childish, really.

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"I personally believe that each of us was put here for a purpose-- to build not to destroy. If I can make people smile, then I have served my purpose for God." - Red Skelton

DarkVirus

DarkVirus

::Nobody::

the changes that i notice during my stay at MT were start of contest, start of MT Groups, people found the true purpose of the f-list, and the site is slowly getting clean.
this is a very good thread u made SM. Really points out the changes in the site...

retire

EternalParadox

Retired Moderator

EternalParadox

.:Enigma Mod:.

@Dirty,

I thank you for your criticism. I will take that to heart and see where I can improve on my actions. That goes along with animefreak3 too. I am not perfect, of course, and criticism, though sometimes unpleasant, is rather necessary and albeit refreshing.

Regarding the lack of clear defined consequences for breaking the rule, I agree that they are lacking. It has been one of my beliefs that they should indeed be clearly prescribed, so that there is a certain set consequence for a certain action. That would go a long way to being fair to all, as all those who violate the rule in the same way should receive the same punishment, old or new members alike.

i will disagree that my suggestion is communist in nature. My belief has been set rules and set punishment for violations thereof. Though I can see how that can be intimidating for the new members who are unfamiliar with the rules. My suggestion is not without flaws. Nonetheless, I remain steadfast that at least repeated offenders should get certain consequences on a consistent pattern, which the current structure of their posts gaining moderator attention and then a status change does not efficiently or effectively enforce. Of course, in the future, I will try to explain "why" people shouldn't start certain posts besides citing only the rules.

It is very true that to post "please read the rules" implies an assumption that the thread creator is ignorant of them. I admit, that is certainly folly on my part, and in the future I will try to do more.

i am sure that most people who frequent the forums will notice that of the recent threads, the only ones I have participated in are ones about current events or those with political undertones. For example, such threads as shinsengumi's on the Supreme Court, hiddenshakehands's thread on the shuttle Discovery, and archer79's thread on the liability of gun makers for gun crimes. Besides these, it is certainly very true that I do not post in the other threads that I cite the forum rules for. However, I hope that everyone understands that most of these threads are "what's your favorite anime," "who's the best character," and other favorites and versus threads. On these threads, which really is just a collection of disconnected one liners, I really do not believe that my posting anything contributes any substance. However, in the future I will try and provide more information for threads in the suggestions and help sections of the forum.

My action may indeed come across as decisive moderation. Nonetheless, the ultimate power rests not within my hands. There have been many threads which I felt violated the forum rules but which the moderators such as shinsengumi have disagreed. I may seem a paradox, but if that's part of my nature, then it may be a bit difficult to change overnight, lol.

As for your 4 points, Dirty:

1. I sound patronizing. That is a folly I admit. I will try my best to improve in the future.
2. My assumption that everyone does not read the rules. While I do not quite assume that all the time, that is another folly of mine. I will also do my best to fix that.
3. I did not reply to a question. If you mean a question in this thread, then I must not have read it and did not catch one glancing at the posts. Please remind me of it again. If you mean the question of the tread titles such as "who's your favorite," I really do not believe that these are "discussions," only a collection of few-word posts.
4. Another duplicate appears and does not get closed. That I cannot take too much responsibility for. I am not the ones closing threads. And I am also human. I do not stay on constantly prowling the forums and it would be inevitable that certain threads "slip through the seams", if you will. Though that is one areas that should gain greater improvements.

Again, to all of you who have felt intimidated by my posts or offended by my style, I apologize. I sincerely do. I will take these criticisms to heart and do my best to improve.

And I have just spent time that I should have spent writing my Upenn essay. So I will leave you all at that.

Edit:

I hope that by taking time to make what I think is a reasoned reply I have demonstrated that I am willing to change and that I am not arrogantly stuck in my ways. Further criticisms andn suggestions for improvement is always welcomed. Though I won't see it as quickly since I did decide to cut back on the internet. *Points to my signature*

EternalParadox
Previously the Forum, Vector Art, and Policy Moderator

I don't use Minitokyo in a way that I could notice lot of things. I didn't know of the flamewars... it sounds to me like another site. Surprised to see all those here since the other website paid some money. Guess I'm pretty naive.

I don't think that all the "best" and "fave" threads are a bad thing, after all Minitokyo isn't a site to think over only serious things. It must be a mix of everything.

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Thanks to GothicMike for making my avatar and signature.

Member of : Renegade Fighter ~ Anime Paradise ~ Death-Note

animefreak3

animefreak3

Serpentarius

Quote by EternalParadox3. I did not reply to a question. If you mean a question in this thread, then I must not have read it and did not catch one glancing at the posts. Please remind me of it again. If you mean the question of the tread titles such as "who's your favorite," I really do not believe that these are "discussions," only a collection of few-word posts.

Take a second look at that?

i have went to some length to turn "disconnected comments" into conversations. I follow up on the threads I comment to. By not participating you add to the problem, by following up I propose a solution. They are only disconnected, b/c the people are disconnected. That is what opposes communities/communication.

We begin and end in nothingness. Our darkness is confronting our ultimate nature, for nothing can come from nothing. We must sow the wind and reap the void, since the now is all we have. Together, we walk in darkness.

hiddensnakehands

hiddensnakehands

Captain Obvious

Minitokyo does feature one of the better gallery and forum sections compared to others, to be honest.
However, that being said

Quote by DirtyI have to agree with animefreak3 that running a communist system as you are suggesting will be too harsh. A forum is made by the community with pervasive elements of respect, effective communication, acceptance, understanding and not by the people at the top dictating it with more policy.


Actually, EternalParadox is not suggesting a communist system. The mere fact that everyone is able to create new threads indicates that. I understand that people come from different areas, but policies still need to implemented. And by the way, EternalParadox is not making up "new" rules. The rules are there, it is just some members ignore them.

Quote by DirtyFrom what I've read you appear to adhere to a top down approach whereas animefreak3 advocates a bottom up approach. Let me reiterate a top down approach does not make a community.


bottom up approach, top down approach? I think I understand what you are saying, however, your analogy is not exactly correct. What does the "top" gain in this case, and what about the "bottom"?

Quote by DirtySimply pasting read the forum rules indicates that people break rules out of ignorance, which is a fair assumption. But not everyone is ignorant, others simply don't care, should they?


ignorance and not care have about the same meaning in this case, dont you agree? They are more of a correlation than contrastion

Quote by DirtyWell yes they should but rules which are driven on the removal or rights is only motivating them by fear/security rather than understanding why they shouldn't.


First of all, rules are rules, and if you break them, there needs to be punishment in place.
Second of all, I saw many posts of EternalParadox and Spystreak and myself in this matter, we quote the forum guidelines, and then suggest the user does not create these threads in the future. I personally think that is a very polite way of telling them so, right?
Third of all, if they do not understand it, they might need to reread the rules twice, I will repost the rules here

Quote by shinsengumiFavorites and versus threads
As these threads seldom generate meaningful discussion and are often duplicates of existing threads, please refrain from creating threads asking for favorite characters, series, or games as well as threads comparing individual characters, series, or games.


As you may have realized, this is the quote used by EternalParadox very often. If you read it carefully, you should understand why. Why they are not allowed to create these threads, becase these seldom generate meaningful discussion and are often duplicates of existing threads. It is explained perfectly in the guidelines. So, we are helping them, it is just the case of some people do not bother to read it, which is why they create these threads in the first place

Quote by DirtyThat said some basic rules need to be applied since anarchy is not acceptable. Reading the forum guidelines, there doesn't appear to be any real consequences to the rules.


very good
As in my thread, http://forum.minitokyo.net/showthread/29149/
There needs to be consequences for these. It is hauling down the entertainment value of MT discussions

Quote by cifirynThere are also a lot of pointless threads.


exactly.

Quote by animefreak3i have went to some length to turn "disconnected comments" into conversations. I follow up on the threads I comment to. By not participating you add to the problem, by following up I propose a solution. They are only disconnected, b/c the people are disconnected. That is what opposes communities/communication.


Thank you!
However, to the general MT community, when they browse the forum section, and happen to cross a "vs" thread, Most of the time, the forum replies would be just a random string of words, for example, lets simulate a favorite bleach episode thread
most of the posts would be "10" "31" "32" What good do these responses do?
I understand you are spending your time trying to make MT a better community, but to the general community, threads such as these are depressing. In the future, who would like to join MT for discussion again? Have you ever checked out GaiaOnline?

Quote by IyasisThere was a time when I absolutely loved the forums; the topics were original and interesting and members were friendly towards each other. I'm not saying that everyone was perfect and happy-go-lucky, there were arguments but mostly they were presented in a civiled manner, not all out flaming as some of the cases currently. And those who were rude and disrepectful were dealt with. When MT was smaller, there were not as many members and those that were, were quite active. I would see the same members frequently around the forums and the galleries and the site really felt like a community ~ such nice memories. Now, I rarely go to the forums; there are many duplicate and/or pointless threads and then there are those threads filled with endless see-saw bickering and flaming. I know shinsengumi is doing a great job of cleaning up as forum moderator with the help of others, but nevertheless it's discouraging to go to a forum and see so many closed threads ~ it gives MT a bad reputation. In my eyes, the forums have really lost their sparkle.


Bin Bon, you hit it right on the mark, my friend. as for the closed threads, I suggest we simply delete them, instead of showing up as closed, details can be found http://forum.minitokyo.net/showthread/29149/

In conclusion, I think that it is important to note that everyone's action needs to be accounted for. The n00b bibles and the forum guidelines serve as a wonderful piece of introduction manual for the new members
I think we all agree that MT forums has lost some of the edges over its history, with some duplicate threads and rather pointless discussions. And just to make myself clear, by pointless i mean threads such as
"what is your high school name"
"what is your best friends name"
in all honesty, what good do these threads do for the general MT community?

The thing that I feel left out in the forum guidelines is that one should think twice before starting a new thread, thinking about its purpose and its entertainment value for the general MT community. And sadly favorites and vs threads do not have them which is why it is frowned upon here in minitokyo

This signature violates the signature guidelines, thus it has been removed.

animefreak3

animefreak3

Serpentarius

Quote by hiddensnakehandsThank you!
However, to the general MT community, when they browse the forum section, and happen to cross a "vs" thread, Most of the time, the forum replies would be just a random string of words, for example, lets simulate a favorite bleach episode thread
most of the posts would be "10" "31" "32" What good do these responses do?
I understand you are spending your time trying to make MT a better community, but to the general community, threads such as these are depressing. In the future, who would like to join MT for discussion again? Have you ever checked out GaiaOnline?

Then they have not answered the question. Plain, and simple. No, I've never seen it (go), but I'm rather picky where I'm involved. I think the reason I'm still here is b/c of the nice people, and the LUG. Otherwise I would have lost interest a long time ago.

Delete out of place threads sounds like good judgment. I don't think the staff for MT have the time to be fair, or consistant as Dirty has pointed out. Therefore I don't this automatic punitive action is wise. It is my opinion.

i have based my opinion on my experiences running my Uni's campus research club. I advised our officers against this type of action too, and it resulted in no campus research club when they out voted me. It passed, and now we have no members, and no club this year.

Accountability has its place, and context. There are also many levels of action that can be taken. (deleting out of place threads, comments, and art) Making MT a platform for punitive action will only serve to deminish that community. Incidents needing action need no question, but we're not talking about that. We're talking about extending on that definition, and that is why it has provoked discussion/opposition. There are too many very young, and others with little spare time to share. You'll lose this special atmosphere if you constrict MT.

Nietzsche said that any living, and prosperous community will be rich in visable failures. A decadent community shows none of this. This is a push to constrict the life from MT, and that I cannot agree with.

We begin and end in nothingness. Our darkness is confronting our ultimate nature, for nothing can come from nothing. We must sow the wind and reap the void, since the now is all we have. Together, we walk in darkness.

hiddensnakehands

hiddensnakehands

Captain Obvious

ummmn, you do make a good point, animefreak3
I also understand the "special atmosphere" you are referring here. However, MT being such a big community makes it hard for it to achieve so.
However, do explain the "extend its definition" part, i seem to be confused here

This signature violates the signature guidelines, thus it has been removed.

animefreak3

animefreak3

Serpentarius

Someone posting hate threads ("I hate this person, and you should too.") would require action, someone posting sexual action as artwork would require action. Spamming your wares on threads would require action. These are extremes. Their identity need no explanation, they are just out of place. We are discussing adding actions to this list that muddies the waters. We're talking about extending off that definition.

We begin and end in nothingness. Our darkness is confronting our ultimate nature, for nothing can come from nothing. We must sow the wind and reap the void, since the now is all we have. Together, we walk in darkness.

hiddensnakehands

hiddensnakehands

Captain Obvious

okay, I think I kind of get what you are talking about
However, by creating pointless threads or duplicate threads, it is only going to make the MT community worse, thus going far and far away from the vision of yours, the special atmosphere

This signature violates the signature guidelines, thus it has been removed.

animefreak3

animefreak3

Serpentarius

You're right, and that's why I liked your idea to delete those threads instead of just closing them. If they are really needed, you can always count on someone else making a new one. ;)

Don't forget, it's the people that create the atmosphere. Not the forums.

We begin and end in nothingness. Our darkness is confronting our ultimate nature, for nothing can come from nothing. We must sow the wind and reap the void, since the now is all we have. Together, we walk in darkness.

Dirty

Dirty

too many steps ahead.

Quote by EternalParadoxNonetheless, I remain
steadfast that at least repeated offenders should get certain
consequences on a consistent pattern, which the current structure of
their posts gaining moderator attention and then a status change does
not efficiently or effectively enforce. Of course, in the future, I
will try to explain "why" people shouldn't start certain posts besides
citing only the rules.


Yes it needs to be clear what is punishable and how the punishment will be carried. Clear, explicit consequences means that rules are fair, people are accountable for their actions.

Quote by EternalParadox
It is very true that to post "please read the rules" implies an
assumption that the thread creator is ignorant of them. I admit, that
is certainly folly on my part, and in the future I will try to do more.


Most people are ignorant, that's a fair assumption. There are several alternatives I guess depending on who does what. For new threads that are 'closely' related then it's best that the person put at the top of their thread "I've seearched for bla bla or the other thread was too old". Another option is make the effort to followup any questions if you close the thread. Or you clearly state the difference.

Quote by EternalParadoxi am sure that most people who frequent the forums will notice that of
the recent threads, the only ones I have participated in are ones about
current events or those with political undertones. For example, such
threads as shinsengumi's on the Supreme Court, hiddenshakehands's
thread on the shuttle Discovery, and archer79's thread on the liability
of gun makers for gun crimes. Besides these, it is certainly very true
that I do not post in the other threads that I cite the forum rules
for.


Worthwhile topics to post in.

Quote by EternalParadox
However, I hope that everyone understands that most of these
threads are "what's your favorite anime," "who's the best character,"
and other favorites and versus threads. On these threads, which really
is just a collection of disconnected one liners, I really do not
believe that my posting anything contributes any substance.


I myself don't participate as actively in most of these one liner reply threads. So I see your perspective and agree that they generally are superficial threads. I do realise however that this is an anime related board. Anime is clearly going to attract alot more young people, it has cool characters/worlds/themes and is therefore likely to generate favourite and versus theme topics as opposed to discussing quantum physics and m strings theory. Heck I'd even go as far to say that alot of people don't even read most of the threads content and just add their bit to their friends/stalkee's thread. I don't support them as you don't but I do see it has its place as necessary dialogue. Sometimes people need introductory topics to build up rapport since not everyone immediately dives into threads that require more thinking.

Quote by EternalParadox
However, in
the future I will try and provide more information for threads in the
suggestions and help sections of the forum.
My action may indeed come across as decisive moderation. Nonetheless,
the ultimate power rests not within my hands. There have been many
threads which I felt violated the forum rules but which the moderators
such as shinsengumi have disagreed. I may seem a paradox, but if that's
part of my nature, then it may be a bit difficult to change overnight,
lol.


I kind of gathered it was like an embedded disclaimer.

Quote by EternalParadox
As for your 4 points, Dirty:
3. I did not reply to a question. If you mean a question in this
thread, then I must not have read it and did not catch one glancing at
the posts. Please remind me of it again. If you mean the question of
the tread titles such as "who's your favorite," I really do not believe
that these are "discussions," only a collection of few-word posts.


It was a followup questions regarding the thread closing where I did not think the terms word and expression denoted the same responses. Someone who is literal like yourself I thought would have the same understanding, but I can see how it is similar.

Quote by EternalParadox4. Another duplicate appears and does not get closed. That I cannot
take too much responsibility for. I am not the ones closing threads.
And I am also human. I do not stay on constantly prowling the forums
and it would be inevitable that certain threads "slip through the
seams", if you will. Though that is one areas that should gain greater
improvements.


Yes it isn't down to you no, I wouldn't expect one person to moderate a gazillion threads though I was shutdown in three replies while the newer thread [whose topic was even closer to the original one than mine] notched over a hundred replies, well you'd think someone would have noticed it.

Quote by EternalParadoxI hope that by taking time to make what I think is a reasoned reply I
have demonstrated that I am willing to change and that I am not
arrogantly stuck in my ways. Further criticisms andn suggestions for
improvement is always welcomed. Though I won't see it as quickly since
I did decide to cut back on the internet. *Points to my signature*


I think you have been fair in answering and I am glad that we have been able to communicate in a respectful manner. Good luck with your college applications.

P.S. I prefer the term feedback over criticism.

Attempting to escape the matrix...

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Inoyaru

Inoyaru

InuYasha's Lil Bro

I haven't been able to see that many changes, considering that I have no computer...

Please checkout the thread for my Inu-Yasha Fanfic... You can find a link on my Userpage...

mizu-megami

mizu-megami

hidden forest

i didn't know in the first place al this was going on. it's terribele when people aren't polite to each other. my mother always says treat al people like you wanted to be treat. i think she is right.

What changes have you noticed during your stay at Minitokyo?
-some mebers don't answer when you've posted a message in their guestbook.
(i don't know more because everthing i now know is from this page)

What do you think of the information I stated above?
i really think you'r right
well hope to see you around
bye bye

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Aoko-chan

Aoko-chan

Sky Reflection

I'm here since October last year (don't wanna count weeks...) and I've noticed some changes... people who submits hentai although it's forbidden, or who is very rude with other people submissions, or bad-quality submissions...
I've found some nice changes (i.e. BotChii is more strict now), but the bad changes are more. And the sad part is that who make all this possible are members...

Nice discussion SilentMasamune!

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Miembro de:[Hispanime]. Vivan los hispanos~~!! - [Aoi-Nanase] - [Starlight-Shine] - ~Day-Dreamerz~
I hope it's not only me, do you understand?

SilentMasamune

SilentMasamune

I'm all washed up. . .

In addition, I see even more complaints about other members than ever before. It seems that for some turns I make, there's an argument going on, whether it ranges from the shoutbox (a privilege for members who are at least level 50), some threads in the forums, or even nowadays the gallery items in which members argue because of criticism. I find it rather dramatic because other members get involved and it seems like the fighting just keeps going on until someone tries to break it up. There are many people here who do not want to experience the drama that sometimes unfolds here in Minitokyo, mostly because it makes the person who started the drama look bad and it would leave scars as other people get some sort of impression about that person.

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