building a computer

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sammo

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sammo

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hello boys and girls, ladies and gentlemen. my name is sammo and few weeks ago, my computer had the misfortune of getting its processor cache fried. the cause is unknown, but the fact remains that i need a new computer. (i suspect it was the alignment of the planets and the forces of people whom i made fun of for drawing robots during class).

after saving my old computer i had before the new one broke, i now have 2 computer to which i can refer to in using for spare parts... hard drive, power supply (2 250 watters), video card (your average joe ati radeon 9200).. you know, the works. so i thought hey! why throw this away? why not build a computer and use spare parts and save some money and make a computer built for my specification? this sounded like a wonderful idea to me, just like how a man found out that adding ketchup to french fries made its taste much more superior.

there's a slight problem. i dont know anything about hardwares. *overhears people on MT irc channel snicker at him* >_>

ok, so here's the situation: my budget: $300-350 its laughable, but sammo no longer works as a server at his restaraunt, so he needs to cut back on his spendings x_x

i plan to buy a barebone system and build things from there. video card and hard drive should be no problem pretty much, since i have that from my previous computer.

what im really stuck on is the processor. supposing i spend about 100-150 dollars on a barebone kit, it will leave me about another 150-200 to buy processor and ram (that is, if the motherboard is imcompatible with the RAM i have now). with that money, which processor is the best for me, the best for its buck, the best for what i can afford?

straight out, im no gamer. i hardly ever game, and the only time i do is when i play yahoo online games once every blue moon with mt irc-ers. so therefore, i dont really need a SUPER demanding system.

i do, however, do a lot of graphic work (no brainer, right?). i plan to buy 2gb RAM eventually for the computer after i build it, so that's all good. that leaves the processor issue wide open still, so im very much confuddled. people say AMD is better for the bucks, people say intel is more reliable, and im just like uhh i dunno i like ramen ._.

if possible, i would love it if people could goto newegg.com and choose what processor they think is the best for the price that go from 100-170 dollars. if you want to pick out the barebone system that should go with it, that'd be even awesomer too *_*

thank you, your help is greatly appreciated *_*

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It seems that you are on a very tight budget, so your options are very limited.
For a motherboard, get one that used the mini-ATX factor.
These motherboards have almost everything you will need: integrated graphics,
onboard sound, and a ethernet port.

You can still insert your ATI Radeon 9200 graphic card, just make sure you
get one that comes with a AGP slot.

Most of these motherboards uses DDR if you do not have DDR, you must change your ram.
Newer uses DDR2

As for processors...

Look into the AMD sempron series or the Intel Celeron D series, these processor are made for value users, but still packs quite some punch in it. ;)

One thing is for AMD sempron it uses socket 754 and that limits your abilitiy to upgrade in the future.


AMD Sempron 64 2500+ at 1.4Ghz socket754 $60.00
Celeron D 326 at 2.53Ghz LGA775 $74.99

Both have 64bit support

These items are pickout as with the lowest price, but with the most up to date
technologies. It does not include taxes and shipping and handling charges as well as what ever other charges there is.

CeleronD
AMD Sempron

Most LGA775 motherboards uses PCIe graphic cards not AGP.
And DDR2 not DDR (while some still use DDR, but that's only on some boards)

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  • Nov 04, 2005

sammo

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sammo

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but isn't 1.4 ghz somewhat below the norm these days? my old emachine had 2.8 ghz intel pentium 4 processor @_@ all these numbers confuse me.

let's say i can spend 150 dollars on a processor. i mean, i can afford a little more than 60-70 dollars on processor. in that case, what would you recommend?

and what's 64 bit support mean? XD im such a newb

Yoh

Yoh

Yoh The Great!

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Well I would recommend an Intel P4 processor, P4 2.66 GHz or maybe this P4 3.0 GHz and then you need a motherboard, you only need to choose one that use the same CPU Socket Type that is LGA 775, so you can choose one from here that use the same RAM that you have now, motherboard

Hope it helps you.

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sammo

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sammo

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hmm... right now, ive set up my eyes on this barebone system:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16856110031

Model
Brand ASUS
Model Vintage-PE1

CPU
CPU Type Intel Pentium 4/Celeron
CPU Socket Intel Socket T(LGA775)
FSB 533/800MHz

Chipset
North Bridge SiS 661fx
South Bridge SiS 964

Memory
Memory slot 2x 184Pin
Memory Type Supported DDR333/400
Max Memory Supported 2GB
Dual Channel Memory Supported Yes

Expansion Slots
AGP AGP 8x
PCI 3

Storage
IDE ATA 2x ATA 133
Serial ATA 2x SATA 150

Graphics
Onboard Video SiS Real 256e
Video Memory Shared

Audio
Onboard Audio Realtek ALC655
Channel 6-ch

Communications
First LAN 10/100 LAN
Max LAN Speed 10/100Mbps

Extension Bays
3.5" Internal bays 2
3.5" External bays 2
5.25" External bays 2

Front Panel Ports
Front USB 2
Front IEEE 1394 1
Front Audio Ports 3 jacks
Back Panel Ports
PS/2 2
COM 1
LPT 1
VGA 1
RJ45 1

Power Supply
Power Supply 300w

Physical SPEC
Dimensions W x H x D 6.69" x 15.1" x 13.9"

Features
Features Recovery Pro
CrashFree BIOS 2
Ez Flash BIOS
My Logo

===============

the barebone kit will cost me 109 dollars, and then i really wouldn't have to deal with motherboard mumbo jumbo (i think ^_^;;)

since the ram supports DDR333/400, which is what my old computer used, i won't have to buy additional ram for awhile either, which is nice. like i said, harddrive's already covered for, and ati radeon 9200 isn't so bad for a normal user like me...

all that leaves me is the motherboard, which i can spend 150 - 200 dollars on...

i appreciate everyone's help so far, i am very grateful. for now, i guess i will be installing http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819116198 (Intel Pentium 4 630 Prescott 800MHz FSB 2MB L2 Cache LGA 775 EM64T Processor) - bleh... i have to buy a new heat sink to keep it optimally cool? x_x

i mean, that'd work with the barebone kit i have, right? O_O

throw me some extra comments and tips you want to give, because i wont make the final decision until next week (and dear god, i need some). any alternate ideas on what my components should be, whatever... since it is my first computer building, i want to take things slowly and surely.

Yoh

Yoh

Yoh The Great!

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I think that the barebone is a good desicion, that saves you money to spent it on the CPU. For what I read its recommendable to buy a Fan&heatsink for it. Maybe something like this.

So what other kind of help do you need? You don't need to buy anything else? Maybe a HD or something else?

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Quote by sammobut isn't 1.4 ghz somewhat below the norm these days? my old emachine had 2.8 ghz intel pentium 4 processor @_@ all these numbers confuse me.

let's say i can spend 150 dollars on a processor. i mean, i can afford a little more than 60-70 dollars on processor. in that case, what would you recommend?

and what's 64 bit support mean? XD im such a newb


Here is another processor that I've looked up...

Intel Pentium 4 630 running at 3GHz
with EM64T, and NX disable bit.
Socket use LGA775
Price: $174.88
Edit: You already picked this... :D

Intel Celeron D 346 running at 3.06Ghz
with EM64T, and NX disable bit
Socket use LGA775
Price: $119.00

What is NX disable bit?

Quote by IntelExecute Disable Bit allows the processor to classify areas in memory by where application code can execute and where it cannot. When a malicious worm attempts to insert code in the buffer, the processor disables code execution, preventing damage or worm propagation. To provide end-to-end no execute (NX) coverage, Intel offers Execute Disable Bit for workstations, servers, desktop PCs and Laptop PCs.

What are the requirements for NX disable bit?

Quote by IntelExecute Disable Bit currently requires one of the following operating systems to support it:
Microsoft Windows* Server 2003 with Service Pack 1
Microsoft Windows* XP* with Service Pack 2
SUSE Linux* 9.2
Red Hat Enterprise Linux 3 Update 3

You motherboard will need a 915 and higher Express series chipset to support NX disable bit
NX will not work until you have enable it inside the BIOS.

Contact the barebone manufacture or SIS itself to see if the SIS661FX chipset supports Intel's NX disable bit feature.

What is 64bit?

Quote by Chris64 bit computers process data in larger chunks than 32 bit computers. This means a number of things, but the big 2 are:

1) When programs are written to support 64-bit processors, those programs will generally perform faster than on a 32-bit processor of the same speed. This is partially because 32-bit computers must handle 64-bit numbers in two steps, whereas 64-bit computers only need to use one step.

2) 64-bit processors can address more memory than 32-bit processors. This means your server can have more RAM, and therefore can store more data in memory, making memory-intensive programs like databases faster.

Links to quotes...
http://www.theserverside.net/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=31939
http://www.intel.com/business/bss/infrastructure/security/xdbit.htm


Products....
Pentium4
CeleronD

For extra protection, read this article...
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/sp2mempr.mspx


You won't be able to benefit 64bit until Windows Vista starts shipping.

Edit:

There is an error with the info posted on Newegg!
newegg posted that it supports dual channel, but
according to the SIS's website. the SIS661FX chipset does not
support dual channel!


http://www.sis.com/products/sis661fx_benefits.htm

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  • Nov 04, 2005

chingetscook

chingetscook

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Sammo, you seem to be confused as to what that barebone system comes with. ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16856110031 ) Asking what motherboard you need is irrelevant since the barebones system comes with a motherboard already. What you need to complete the system is the hard drive, cdrom drive, monitor, speakers, video card, CPU and memory.

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  • Nov 04, 2005

sammo

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sammo

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thanks for your concern, chingetscook, but im quite aware of the fact that barebone kit come with motherboard (hence i said above that now that i have chosen a barebone kit, i wont have to worry about motherboard mumbo jumbo)...

thanks for the tip, yoh! if i get that pentium processor, i'll know which heatsink to go with it.

but i read tiki's post and now im tempted to get an intel celereon d: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=19-116-225

performance-wise, which of the following 3 is a better processor? which one would be the second best?
1. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819116198
2. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819112203
3. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=19-116-225

im thinking 3rd is the best, but im just looking at the ones with biggest numbers x_x

tiki, thanx for explaining all those terms... i actually understood them *_*

Yoh

Yoh

Yoh The Great!

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Well I think that the first one is the best, there is not that much difference on the Operating Frequency and I think that the Pentium can take more procesing than Celeron does. And have a higher FSB anc L2 cache, here is a link that explains that here

Hope it helps you

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sammo

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sammo

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ahh @_@ im just gonna go with the 3rd choice... 1st choice is wayy too much for my humble pocket. yoh, i thank you for that site, as i now have better understanding of how processors work now... i still dont know how drastic performance is changed by number changes here and there. in comparison to the 1st choice, is 3rd choice much more obsolete a point of obviousness? i mean in the end, what is the thing i should look for the most in choosing a processor? is it the frequency, fsb, etc etc?

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Choice 3 is not a wise pick my youngin'
it does not support 64bit as well as NX disable bit.

Go with choice 2 and you shall get the most value out of your buck. :D

All thing matter when picking a processor.
The higher the better especially in cache.
As for FSB there is a limit so don't worry about it too much.

Celeron D FSB 533MHz
P4's FSB 800MHz

Edit:
Forget what I said about the choices...
Newegg made some major errors on the
features with the products.

If you want to know more about performance and comparison.

http://indigo.intel.com/compare_cpu/default.aspx?familyID=3

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  • Nov 05, 2005

Yoh

Yoh

Yoh The Great!

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Well that processor is still good and more if you have a tight budget. You can say that you can choose a processor by its frecuency, but you need to know what use are you going to give to a processor, some people don't need for hard work, other for playing, so that deppends. I try to have a balance on all aspects.

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sammo

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sammo

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uohh... my head's starting to hurt x_x i understand. i guess i'll listen to tiki and get the recommended choice...

if something goes wrong, you will be banned XD

jk jk... i can't even ban anymore -_-;;

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Quote by sammouohh... my head's starting to hurt x_x i understand. i guess i'll listen to tiki and get the recommended choice...

if something goes wrong, you will be banned XD

jk jk... i can't even ban anymore -_-;;

It's not me who recommend you with that choice.
It's "you", yourself who made that choice. ;)

Are you sure you are satisfied with that product?
Don't rush when you are getting something that
you will be using it for quite some time, about 5 years or so.

Ohh the barebone you picked out it does not support the processor
you want to get.


http://support.asus.com/cpusupport/cpusupport.aspx?SLanguage=en-us]
support link

Choose the barebone you want and see if your processor is supported.

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  • Nov 05, 2005

sammo

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sammo

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phew... i almost went ahead and bought the processor last night. good thing i didnt. as stupid as it may seem, i already bought that barebone kit.

now i wish i had known about that site before i hastily went and did something stupid like that T___T previously, i had 2.6 ghz celeron d running on 512mb of ram and i really didn't have any issues with it. in fact, i was pretty happy with its speed. i have no idea if it supported 64bit, but it was about 1-1 1/2 years old (s5100nx).

i wanted to see exactly how much of an importantce 64 bit support will be in the future, and i was pretty stunned. it sounds like an inevitable must-have x_x

just to make sure im not reading the wrong support page, but is this processor compatible?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819116198

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According to the Asus's support site...
It's supported.

http://support.asus.com/cpusupport/cpusupport.aspx?SLanguage=en-us]

Double check it yourself.

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  • Nov 05, 2005

sammo

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sammo

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ah, yosh... damn, so i ended up spending 170 on that stupid processor after all... it better be fast as hell >_>

ok ok, one more question! (my god sammo, you want more answers!?)'

ok, so my barebone kit has this requirement for memory:
Memory slot 2x 184Pin
Memory Type Supported DDR333/400
Max Memory Supported 2GB
Dual Channel Memory Supported Yes

which i totally understand (or think i understand). imi planning to get 2 1gb stick so i can fully maximize max memory supported on my barebone kit... but what is:
cas latency
ECC
registered/unbuffered
timing
and how do these 4 really tie in with compatibility, speed, etc?

if you want, please feel free to recommend me a good 1 gb ram stick... ur.. please :D

BiNumber3

BiNumber3

The 3rd one, tween the 2nd n 4th

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you won't really needa worry about those details, only hardcore gamers and whatnot worry about those
Just get a pair of high quality DDR400 modules, i'd go with dual channel 2gig kits, for stability i'd use corsair, but 2 gig pairs can be expensive
so if you plan on buying the 2 gigs over time, just go with 1gig sticks, so you can get a gig now and a gig later

if you can afford it, and you're really set on gettin 2 gigs total later, get dual channel as theyre matched to work together, so 2 gig dual channel on yer(or yer mom's) credit card:)

Kids these days... taking love too seriously, shouldn't be worryin about love til they're at LEAST 11 years old

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ECC is Error Correcting Code, what it does is the memory basically checks for errors.
This is mostly used on SERVERS and not client PCs. Also
Therefore just get the Non-ECC version also it's a lot cheaper that ECC.
And ECC is slower than Non-ECC.

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  • Nov 06, 2005

sammo

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sammo

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TIKI. YOH. you guys have been such a tremendous help. when i finish building this computer (successfully without a doubt), i will make sure i will reward you when i become rich and famous! nyahahaha!

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I rather stay out of the spot light. ^_^'
Edit:
Your welcome and I hope you have build a
PC the will last you for more than 5 years or so down the road.

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  • Nov 06, 2005

bobobob

bobobob

wandering

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Ok i made the same mistake as you but i think i fried something on my motherbored. My computer works fine unless im trying to play games. I should of bought the warenty. BUY THE F**KING WARNTY. trust me.

  • Nov 06, 2005

chingetscook

chingetscook

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One bit of advice I have when you get the parts in to put together your PC, first pick a nice open space somewhere to assemble it, and second plug it into a grounded outlet before you start, touch a metal part of the case often when working with the parts, doing so will dramatically reduce the risk of static electric damage to the computer.

Doesn't hurt to eat a nice snack before you start the assembly either. That's how I build my computers and it has really paid off in the long run with reliable hardware.

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  • Nov 06, 2005

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