Current Event: Riots spreading across France

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EternalParadox

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As some of you may know, especially fellow MT members from Europe and especially France, riots are spreading across France, marking as of today the 10th day of arsons and violence.

The rioting began with two teenagers from a poor Parisian neighborhoods getting electrocuted on a railway track because they thought police were chasing them. These teenagers are from the slums of Paris suburbs, which as a very large north African Muslim immigrant population. These areas are suffering very high crime rates, and extreme unemployment.

The tensions that continue to spark the violence comes from the discontent of these immigrants and their teenage French-born children. Despite being French-born, teenagers from these areas do not feel as full French citizens because of the very little attention they feel they get from the French government.

My question then is this:

How do you feel that this problem should be resolved?

I am here referring to the underlying tensions, not merely the riots, which is just a violent manifestation of the deep-seated troubles.

EternalParadox
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  • Nov 06, 2005
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... Don't oversimplify not all the teenagers from these areas or these backgrounds don't feel as not full french.
- me going to check the definition of slum - english isn't my native tongue.

There are numerous of young that succeed there.

I guess the roots of the problem must be clearly found first. Some said there are some criminals who just want that the police doesn't come to these places so they manipulate young people.
Promote civic spirit, education...

I was quite surprised when some blamed... err was it a railway track ? I've thougth it was... you know this kind of place it's forbidden to go with this "electricity" sign and "deathly"...

ok I'll read newspapers, be back probably later.

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  • Nov 06, 2005

EternalParadox

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I am not oversimplifying, but merely stating a common sentiment that these teenagers themselves express. They feel that they are getting unequal treatment because of their ethnic and national background despite being born in France. Most of them are of North African descent, i.e. the former French colonies of Algeria, and Tunisia. The older generations emmigrated to France, but because of their poor economic conditions, they live in government subsidized housing projects. In these neighborhoods, crime and unemployment rates are exceptionally high. That is the reason these teenagers feel "not fully French," because they feel diminished because of the background they come from.

EternalParadox
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  • Nov 06, 2005
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20 %... I think is the unumployment rate "there" with "just" 10 % nationally...

a bit curious about the use of "national background", I've thougth they were french. And there are too other people in "these" areas that come from french families or have other ethnic backgrounds.

The problem is more "integration" and that works in the two ways.

I'm still unconvinced about this "simplification" or else I wonder about what are some obvious cases (like this soccer team).

And it wasn't a railway place (or else the french media really did a bad job) but the kind of place surrounded by wall to prevent people to enter (but not a fortress) used by the national electricity provider... I don't know what's the english name for it.

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  • Nov 06, 2005

Sunira

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20% is a ridiculously high unemployment rate. Thats one in five people. People from the 'slums' here sometimes feel downtrodden too. But then again America doesnt have that high of an unemployment rate...

I think if they think France sucks so much, they should get up and use their energy to move to another country and start making a living there. Rioting and hurting others is a stupid and selfish way to try and solve your problems. :/

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France is paying the price for its ridiculously liberal immigration policies. And Britain will likely fall target to similar problems soon. The problem is integration.
In both France and Britain, the immigrants aren't actually integrated into the society the way they are here. They aren't encouraged to learn the language, they themselves choose to isolate themselves. And then they complain that they aren't getting employment. Of course they aren't. They refuse to adapt to the culture and customs of their new homes.
America is called The Great Melting Pot, because cultures have to accomodate each other here. It was founded by people who were nothing but immigrants from all over the world.

France is suffering now because of its own backwards policies. So now they start talking about getting tough on these people causing the problems, but tough isn't something that they're geared for right now, because they've spent twenty plus years being weak and soft on this very problem.

There is NO way to end this now without a largescale loss of life. They should have dealt with the problem before it came to this.

Personally, I hope that the current administration in France falls, and that someone who actually will be "Tough" gets put into power.

  • Nov 06, 2005
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As bweb said , the problem is integration , theses cities have been neglected for a long time which has contribuated to that high rate of unemployement and crimes.

Indeed it is too late to correct ours mistakes ,and they uses the death of those two youngs (who thought they were chased by the police and hide in a very dangerous place..... idiots ) as a pretext to make riots. We didn't gave them a chance to integrate the society ,we left them on their own and get what we deserved .

Our policy is at fault but it isn't a reason to destroy cars ,shops and all , people are losing their job which they depends on.

I hope the discussion between the governement and theses youngs can succeed (though i don't think it will , impossible to talk with idiots)
Later on , i think the solution is the reconstruction of theses cities and strengthen the education :
hurting others won't help you at all.
Now , I'm sure a lots think the army should deal with it , send tanks and all ? who will dare to do that? won't it be worse ?

Another thing is that i think informations about France's riots are a little overexagerating in others countries. Also, a lots of idea of growing up , is it terrorism ?, tactical policies ?
[ sorry for my english ]

There's no combination of words ,I could post on the back of a postcard...

  • Nov 06, 2005

EternalParadox

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I don't think the issue is as simple as France being "weak" over the past decades. The reason they are not integrated is because of an inherent difference in nationality, race, and even religion. The only reason the US is the Melting Pot is because it has a much lesser tradition of "us" vs. "them." The US is founded by the amalgamation of a large number of different nationalities. In stark contrast, the European nationalities have solidified along very distinct lines over the past 2 thousand years since the fall of Rome. Europe has fought many bloody wars so that each nationality can have a distinct and unique nation to call its own.

The problem, then, arises when outsiders from North Africa enter into France. These immigrants do not choose to isolate themselves as you would argue, but rather the inherent animosity by the native French is keeping them from the positions they desire. I am sure that the youth generation, the one that is rioting now, would love to be treated "equally." Were it so simple as that word. The fundamental differences in race and religion makes integration in France, or anywhere in Europe for that matter, much, much more difficult than in the US. US is founded by immigrants. Europe is not.

I think the problem is not whether to get "tough," because tough or not, one needs to resolve the fundamental tension beneath. Realize that the Minister of Interior, Nicholas Sarkozy, already takes a very antagonistic line toward these rioter. That's not solving anything. Mere "toughness" will only incite greater tensions. Whatever government policies may be, so long as the native French reject these children of immigrants as "outsiders," then the problem continues. The question is then how to facilitate a change in that attitude.

EternalParadox
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  • Nov 06, 2005
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Quote by EternalParadoxI don't think the issue is as simple as France being "weak" over the past decades. The reason they are not integrated is because of an inherent difference in nationality, race, and even religion. The only reason the US is the Melting Pot is because it has a much lesser tradition of "us" vs. "them." The US is founded by the amalgamation of a large number of different nationalities. In stark contrast, the European nationalities have solidified along very distinct lines over the past 2 thousand years since the fall of Rome. Europe has fought many bloody wars so that each nationality can have a distinct and unique nation to call its own.

.

You are mistaken. The problem is that in many European nations, they refuse to learn the language of their new home. The same problem does exist here in the U.S., but with one major difference. While most European nations have an official language, the United States doesn't. Most of us speak English, but it was never actually established as our official language in law or document.
If you cannot communicate, you cannot expect to have a decent job.
The people from North Africa and Arabia then feel resentful when they can't get work, and they also feel resentful that their religion isn't the chief or respected one, and so they preach hate and intolerance to thier youth. The actually have an islamic cleric in Britain right now preaching murder of innocent, and advocating further bombings.
Integration is key.

  • Nov 06, 2005
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... me surprised that the States are seen as a great example of integration, err.. Katrina, Klu Klux Klan, still a big proportion of black in jail, gang killings ? No ? Places where you shouldn't go ? I've been to one of the place where a car has been burnt (but I didn't think I was going to a dangerous place, well there's the soccer stadium of the city there).

What about the European Union where nations finally are at peace ?

I really protest against the supposed animosity by the native french, it's completely false, sure there are people like that but that's not the majority, or else France would have LePen as president. Or official representants of the french muslim wouldn't have asked the liberation of the french hostages.

And what positions ? Director ? Chairman ? So young of 12, 15 are really exapserated they can't have these jobs ? One problem that France has is it's quite hard to work when you aren't quite educated and since the unemployment is high, it's not surprising that some job are given to overqualified people. "Do you have Bac + 2 ?" But with the population getting older and older, there will more jobs in the next future but having a job without diploma will still be difficult.

And I really say that integration works in the two ways. Sure there are some so other easy ways. And see that the most of the older immigrants don't approve of this violence.

And anyway unlike some presidents, the french politicians don't ostensibly show what are their religion, and most of the french agree with the secular idea. France is even turning more and more like a country where christianism is weaker and weaker. I was even surprised to learn that one of the french presidents Leon Blum was a jew. Tell me about an american president that wasn't christian.

Not surprising that some take an antagonsitic view against the rioters. Should we congratulate the people who injured a disabled woman ? Shouldn't we say it's a wrong way to show their angryness to burn the schools of their brothers or try to injure the firemen ?

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  • Nov 06, 2005

EternalParadox

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Yes, integration is key, but it's not because they refuse to integrate, but rather the opportunities to fully integrate is reduced to a remarkable degree. Why is it than an employer would look at the address of some applicants and already form a prejudice against them? It is no longer a choice to integrate or not when the opportunity itself is restricted. Remember, the majority of these rioters are the younger generation of French-born children of immigrants. These immigrants also mostly come from former French colonies. The language issue is moot. Algeria, Tunisia, and Morocco all speak French as one of their languages in addition to Arabic. Their ability to communicate is not hampered, with the few exceptions of localized slang terms, and even this become immaterial when we are talking about teenagers born and raised in France. However, the level of education is hampered when there is a drastic difference between the government subsidized housing neighborhoods and the more affluent neighborhoods. Of course, this is a problem in most countries, but it becomes magnified in France since France is already facing high employment overall and the issues surrounding these people become much worse.

The "le bac" indeed is very important, but as I understand it, the best schools require crazy high scores and those scores would only result from a consistent path in quality education. The distinction in neighborhoods and the quality of life in them cannot be ignored. If you have poor quality schools in these areas from the get go, you cannot expect one to still have the equality of opportunity to earn that "bac +2".

The immigrants themselves certainly play a contributing role to the problem. But you can't color it black and white and say that it's their categorical "refusal" to integrate, because many of them do want to integrate. Those who do preach extremist do not represent the general rule.

I also remember that LePen did have a surprisingly stronger showing in the polls than some would have liked. He even beat the incumbent Prime Minister Lionel Jospin. Certainly it may not be a majority of the votes as in greater than 50%, but I remember that many French citizens themselves were rather shocked that LePen could garner as much support as he did, and that I think is indicative of at least the embryonic stage of a troubling trend.

EternalParadox
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  • Nov 06, 2005
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Hard work, hard work and hard work. And also luck. Even if I think that these young have maybe to work harder when their parents aren't used to the french society, being in a "cite" you see so much examples to "succeed" quickly - unlawfully (and there are also ones who are more interested to stay in their communities without any "intrusion" of the french state, the absent authority of the parents...). And well hard work doesn't to seem cool. You say as if all these young have try to "succeed". There was an incendit this year (that killed) by some teenage girls to get revenge from one of her former friend, so was it also an integration problem ?

I don't think that all of these young (the one who make riots) feel rejected of not having a job... well when some of them are not even 18.
And being born in France doesn't make someone fluent in french.
I haven't heard really that the quality of education was different in the parts, heard more that it's sometimes more difficult to teach pupils.

LePen had approximately 20 % of the votes, and you say that french were shocked, if they were ok with being racists they wouldn't have been shocked, they wouldn't have manifested, they wouldn't have voted later against LePen (80 %). What was interesting with tthis election is that most of the people thougth that the two ones to the secound round would be Jospin and Chirac, so an important part of them use their votes to show a lttle different opinion, thinking that after they would have just to choose rigth or left.

Quote by EternalParadox but as I understand it, the best schools require crazy high scores and those scores would only result from a consistent path in quality education.

Oh yes, that's shocking to find the same thing to enter to Todai. And of course France is known to drive its children in such a competition to have the best places that it's the country that has the highest suicide rate because of that. Oh wait, that's Japan. Last time I've heard, high scores are also needed to enter Cambridge or Eton but it may have change when I was unaware. That's so unfair to have to work hard and be successful to enter these etablishments. For places like Harvard, there's another and more satisfying way to enter, have a wealthy and important family, that's the true american spirit.

Actually the "best schools" that require crazy high scores are the ones called "Grande Ecoles", most of them form the engineers, important civil servants or officers. Not really the kind of formation where you wouldn't have to show you're among the best.
For the other students (probably more than 80 %), there are universities, and they can't refuse you (when you are in the stage called "licence" - the first three years) except if they don't have any more place or it's the 5th time you want to go to DEUG .

The public schools, high schools, can't either refuse some pupils (except some exceptionnal cases likepupils refusing to follow the rules), but it's more usual to go to the place the closer of the place you live.

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  • Nov 07, 2005
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Won't write much. There's a good article on this british newspaper but it will stay free to read only 2 days, I think.

http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article325218.ece

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  • Nov 07, 2005

DanTheGreat

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i really don't understand this issue right now....

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BorisGrishenko

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The best way to stop it is with snipers and heavily armed troops. The sheer scale of the actions makes it a insurrection, not petty crime.

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  • Nov 08, 2005
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Quote by BorisGrishenkoThe best way to stop it is with snipers and heavily armed troops. The sheer scale of the actions makes it a insurrection, not petty crime.

I say take out thirty to fifty percent of the rioters in one swoop. That'll teach them to respect other people's property.

  • Nov 08, 2005

BorisGrishenko

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"France has neither winter, nor summer, nor morals. France is miserable because it is filled with Frenchmen, and Frenchmen are miserable because they live in France." --Mark Twain

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  • Nov 09, 2005

EternalParadox

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Quote by BorisGrishenko"France has neither winter, nor summer, nor morals. France is miserable because it is filled with Frenchmen, and Frenchmen are miserable because they live in France." --Mark Twain

Wow, what a useless quote. That's just like how liberal cartoonists draw comics saying Bush is stupid because he's stupid. Or this other statement by Mark Twain - "It was wonderful to find America, but it would have been more wonderful to miss it."

The reason I created this thread was to to discuss the issue that is the cause of the riots. If you feel like posting quotations which are not pertinent to the discussion at hand, then I kindly ask you to do it somewhere else.

EternalParadox
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  • Nov 09, 2005
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boris so you insult fresh and muslim extyremists soo you wont be able to run any were :D

be pessimistic so that youll never be disapointed and will live a happy life.

  • Nov 17, 2005

Devildude

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i suppose as of late, this issue has quieted down, and the violence has been subsided significantly, though undoubtedly, there is still news of cars being torched and properties being destroyed.

I have spent some time looking over the past arguments, and i come to realize how my home country has also the same basic problem, but more so, such is not the condition.

I dunno if any og you actually know where Malaysia is, but it is a nation made of some 3 different big races that is Indian, Malays and Chinese. Malays are Islamic and the country is an islamic state. Chinese and Indians being minorities to a cartain extend. about 40% are us.

now, the thing about Malaysia is that we have long since the world war and after the colonizations been exposed to power and freedom. Our national day of Aug 31st is the day when we become a country called Malaysia.

The community and society here works in such ways. 90% of all scholarships are approved by the government and given as a grant to promote the educational level of the country, but of course, priority is given hands down at the basis 0f 93% for all grants and scholarships to "Bumiputeras" a name for all malay citizens of Malaysia.

consider how we stand as 40 % actually not a minority level of the entire population, we are not given the equal view and community stand, in which many jobs and offers in the government is run at the social level for Malays.

In recent years, one of the most prominent features of national examinations is the reduction of the level of entry for high school and of course level six form, which is the highest level for high school, or a high school diploma in basic science and mathematics sponsored by the government.

This lowering is significant because an average is 20% of your total answers must be correct for a suitable qualification. Now, consider this, this applies on a level whereby 20% of these answer are right for the Malays only!

Us, the secondary races are rather little in comparison, we have to score a 80% correct answer, inclusive of learning their languages (Malay), this puts us in a difficualt position as our average is not 20 it is actually more 40% or at the very least on a suitable level to get a job is 60% passing mark.

consider how unfair our children has been given an education, whereby, we must work twice as hard to achieve a certain degree of success when the Malays can relax and sit back to enjoy the smooth journey that the government are readily promoting for them.

not to say anything, overall, taxpayers money are generated into funds like this to support them and not us, on general, a general taxation rate for this fund of scholarships is 8000 of my home currency in a year.

each household has continuosly asked their children to spend money wisely, yet this tax is the underlying problem and cause for racism and discrimination.

I have not wandered off topic, i beleive here if you compare to the extent of the problem shown, there is a certain degree of relevance, since these kids who are born in france as immigrants, and thus, they receive less attention, it does match with our sitting as well. as our ancestors also are immigrants since the overall population of 40 % is us, the minorities.

now, Malaysia has long been so, but why havent we had such chaos, i beleive it is simply because of the diversification. perhaps not to my knowledge, but France has long been a country where the industry demands such high levels of qualification for their education and so to get a proper paying job.

In Malaysia, it is good that one can work hard and be rewarded, but what about those who don't which is the primary race of Malaysia that is enjoying the sucess that is churned out by the Taxpayers.

perhaps i think the only problem is because of the integration of society. when we are talking about society, we should have considered that who is the benefactor of the large crowd.

I see that since France favors its own people, they have no such balance for the likes of Malaysia, which generally shares the same thing. There are many who refuse to speak Malay, and long since the 80s, Malaysia has slowly changed its course to speaking english. I believe one of the reason is that why they don;t succeed in getting a job is because there isn't a central language?

i mean look, english is Lingua Franca, it is the language of nations, French as far as i know have not achieved that yet, consider how proud they are over such matters, and look at the stubborness they consider, where and what should they do? they needed something more central as their educatuion basis and really, perhaps it is about time that a little be sacrificed.

what? that is the level of education, in Malaysia this has worked well though containing racism, but indeed beside cursing at them, there is nothing we can do, but in contrast, there is a peaceful country because we can make a difference that we are harder working. and major companies in the world and those in Malaysia (branches) are all held by Indians and Chinese.

Thanks to this system, we are able to merge out of the crowd, and we are more hardworking because we are forced to, by the gov itself.

by reducing the level of eductaion passing mark, i think it is takinbg a big step is bringing down the quality of their future children and society, but yeah, we are seeing a good turn, so why don;t they give a try?

i beleive they shouldn't emphasize so much on eductation level, then we can see how much these people can actually do.

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wolfco

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As long as it doesn't come down to ethnic cleasning, I believe that France has a chance to correct their difficulties. I don't think violence is any kind of answer to unemployment and racial inequalities, but at least it brought some more immediate attention to the ongoing problems. The best fix in my opinion would be for the government to make some official active motion such as to inact an economic dispensation for individuals who can demonstrate significant financial difficulties. Offer qualifing individuals special education programs/training. If the government actually takes action on the behalf of the decendants, then the violence should melt away long enough to actually begin some real planning. If the French are not prepared/ready to intergrate these people into their culture, then they need to make some attempt to bring them out of economic troubles within their own small communities. See below:

I live in "the South". If you aren't familiar with America you may not really understand what exactly that means. Several people above me suggested that America has somehow managed to intergrate immigrants into our culture successfully. Well maybe we have done better than most because of our beginnings, but it is a serious mistake to see us that way. We have little Mexico and little China and little everything else. We have Jewish area's and Italian area's. What we have done successfully is gather in large enough groups of people of similiar backgrounds together so that they can create their own small self-supporting communities. There are enormous numbers of hispanic immigrants who don't have to learn english to live here. They can get everything they need to live decently without ever going outside of their own small zones. This cushion of localized community acts as a buffer between those to can't or won't fit in and those outside the community who see the immigrants with contempt. If they don't want to intergrate or are not ready to, they don't have to do so. They may not be as well off, but they will still be ok. Eventually they or their decendants aclimate to America and we have a new aspect of American culture. The origins of this entire "system" is of course slavery. Many years ago African American's could not live safely outside of there own area's and so formed their own self-supporting communities. As the mutual hatred and fear decreased so did the need for these communitites to be so separated.

The other reason America is more successful with immigrants is of course our government's tendency towards "humanitarian" action. There is lots of supposed sympathy floating around in my government. Lots of officials are trying to gain popularity by assisting those in need. All of these programs and motions (look at Affirmative Action) lead immigrants to feel like some of their concerns are being looking into and accomodated. Violence is at lot less likely if it looks like someone is trying to help.

*I suppose I could go on and explain myself more clearly, but I don't think it is necessary.

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  • Nov 19, 2005

LigerZSchnider

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Quote by wolfcoAs long as it doesn't come down to ethnic cleasning, I believe that France has a chance to correct their difficulties. I don't think violence is any kind of answer to unemployment and racial inequalities, but at least it brought some more immediate attention to the ongoing problems. The best fix in my opinion would be for the government to make some official active motion such as to inact an economic dispensation for individuals who can demonstrate significant financial difficulties. Offer qualifing individuals special education programs/training. If the government actually takes action on the behalf of the decendants, then the violence should melt away long enough to actually begin some real planning. If the French are not prepared/ready to intergrate these people into their culture, then they need to make some attempt to bring them out of economic troubles within their own small communities. See below:

I live in "the South". If you aren't familiar with America you may not really understand what exactly that means. Several people above me suggested that America has somehow managed to intergrate immigrants into our culture successfully. Well maybe we have done better than most because of our beginnings, but it is a serious mistake to see us that way. We have little Mexico and little China and little everything else. We have Jewish area's and Italian area's. What we have done successfully is gather in large enough groups of people of similiar backgrounds together so that they can create their own small self-supporting communities. There are enormous numbers of hispanic immigrants who don't have to learn english to live here. They can get a everything you need to do to live decently without ever going outside of their own small zones. This cushion of localized community acts as a buffer between those to can't or won't fit in and those outside the community who see the immigrants with contempt. If they don't want to intergrate or are not ready to, they don't have to do so. They may not be as well off, but they will still be ok. Eventually they or their decendants aclimate to America and we have a new aspect of American culture. The origins of this entire "system" is of course slavery. Many years ago African American's could not live safely outside of there own area's and so formed their own self-supporting communities. As the mutual hatred and fear decreased so did the need for these communitites to be so separated.

The other reason America is more successful with immigrants is of course our government's tendency towards "humanitarian" action. There is lots of supposed sympathy floating around in my government. Lots of officials are trying to gain popularity by assisting those in need. All of these programs and motions (look at Affirmative Action) lead immigrants to feel like some of their concerns are being looking into and accomodated. Violence is at lot less likely if it looks like someone is trying to help.

*I suppose I could go on and explain myself more clearly, but I don't think it is necessary.

Allow me to add on that.......

Someone mentioned that America is also full of KKK, gangs,and the fact that so many African Americans are in jail. They know who they are. The thing is, these are relatively small numbers compared to the rest of the world. Each group that person mentioned are in a position they in because they choose to be. Some people find it easier to sell drugs than to get a job because they think they can make more money with less hassels. However there are consequencesfor them who pursue that course of action; jail, death or success. Let me assure you that success doesn't comes often. Not every African American take this route either, Asians, Hispanics and Caucasians participate in illegal activities such as gangs and selling drugs, and they too are either jailed or killed for the love of money.

When you see American riots, trust me they are justified: Rodney King is a example. Take 5 cops beating a "Black" man already in custody for a traffic violation, then all 5 cops get accquitted in court, even though video evidence clearly shows the man wasn't resisting, you gonna have a riot. Thats not the only case either. There are incidences alll over the US against all backgrounds. And if the system fails, there are protest and maybe some riots. But not as large scale as the one in France. But what I don't get is the sequence of events that led to the deaths of the two teens in France, they were electrocuted on a railway system because they "thought" they were being chased by the police? And a riot ensued from that? But no one knows what caused this chain of events to happen?

Wow.

That poor Brazillian guy who got shot 5 times in the haed in London after the bombings, should had a war started; he too was being chased by the police. And that was a case of mistaken identity. :(

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  • Nov 19, 2005

Devildude

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in a sense due to the lack of proof on the persons involved who are already dead, it is very troublesome to understand where and what have gone wrong.

plus, on my point of general views, which prior to what i said earlier, has little connection. In my view, since there is little proof to what have started the riot as to the post above me have mentioned, issues of the past and under the carpet will be pulled out for the cause.

similiar to why Iraq had a war, this is the case.
it was deemed to have WMDs which were not existent and then there were other reasons, which is tyranny.

i mean, there is no proof to base why it started in the first place.
however, relevance to this is the fact that they have started something. and the fact that this was started is simple, people are pulling up all the condemned things they have felt unfair dealt with over the years by the government.

and this will go on until they settle the little skeletons.
my deal is that whichever they mentioned as ethnic inequality, should and would have to be righteously viewed again and again until they can settle the balance such as my country has it.

though that has taken years and decades, but i do not think it is hard. much like MT2 to MT3, surely, there are many who oppose to the system change, cause of fear over the loss of oppurtunity in a personal level.

i believe that when it comes to France, if such ethnic equality in question is existent, it must first be dealt with the iron fist, one of them is to make them understand that this is our country, we must follow these rules to keep clear of trouble and instability.

This is what my home country does, it has been limited to word all that nobody, no minority nor other etnic races must speak out their views onto the Malay document. In other words, much like the view on being a muted member in MT.
and this had been proven to work, i believe this is extreme yes, but when you can do so, the country will progress in a more stabilized and controlled area. of course, ideally, what should be expected is that, there is a certain degree of freedom to be allowed. this would soften the impact of the iron fist.

Or the other, we simply let the people do what they want and kill themselves silly, and then one day, they realized that their economy is massively affected thanks to their own self and now they have to do everything all over again the hard way.
it is within human nature to be violent, and more so when there have been more than one reason for them to be angry, slowly it will become a massive anger for the people to burst out.

this can be soothed if people can be employed for employing people who are other ethnic races, naturally, that is not easy as they refuse to adapt. but as i have said earlier, it would be good, that all can begin to understand the bigger picture and learn well to master the local culture and tongue.

but this will take a lot of govermental support, until the french government and their elitist people can finally put down their high up there attitude to maintain the french is the strongest race around or being french should be proud, it will not do this implemantation anygood.

In essence, the root of the problem is the root itself, where have they gone wrong can be found there. fix there first.

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bindermichi

bindermichi

Slayer of Tomatoes

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There's something really important missing in all the post.

Everyone is assuming the problems where part of not speaking the common language.. which is mostly wrong in this case.

1) These people are not just some imigrants from some african countries, they came from the old french colonies, where french is the official language until this day.

2) Everyone born in a french colony (even if they are no more) or with at least on parent being french automatical optains the french nationality, and theoretically has the right to live in france, even if he/she wasn't born in the European Union.

So at this point it would leave these riot at being a racial and social issue.

  • Nov 20, 2005

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