Weather going crazy. Is it man's fault?

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For the 2005 year, weather has been very active and volatile. Some part of the world has been clobbered by unseasonably cold spell and snow. Other part of the world is exactly opposite with unseasonably warm temperature for the winter.

Weather pattern will always change but how much of this change was caused artificially by man? Had United States join the rest of the world in Kyoto Protocal, would it make big difference? I think China refused to join also and that country is going full speed in industrilization which means more pollution will be generated from that country down the road.

As for myself I hope the next president of United States will reverse course and United States will sign the Kyoto Protocal.

  • Dec 25, 2005
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it's greed at work dude!

  • Dec 25, 2005
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If if the US signed on to the Kyoto Accords, the effects of CO2 will remain for at least 100 years. And mind you, CO2 would still be deposited into the atmosphere on the order of gigatons (half of which is absorbed by the oceans and plantlife). Therefore, in my opinion Kyoto will not make much of a dent. Apart from that Kyoto appears to be a flawed policy, for starters there is no concrete evidence mankind is responsible for the recent trend in the increase of the average surface temperatures (note: temperatures aloft have remained stable for the last two decades).Is something happening to cause the recent increases in surface temperatures, possible. Yet in many journal articles I have read on the matter, authors are relucant to point the finger readily at man. Our role in all of this may be insignificant.

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  • Dec 25, 2005

LigerZSchnider

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The sun is moving closer to earth........... :)

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  • Dec 25, 2005

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Quote by griffonIf if the US signed on to the Kyoto Accords, the effects of CO2 will remain for at least 100 years. And mind you, CO2 would still be deposited into the atmosphere on the order of gigatons (half of which is absorbed by the oceans and plantlife). Therefore, in my opinion Kyoto will not make much of a dent. Apart from that Kyoto appears to be a flawed policy, for starters there is no concrete evidence mankind is responsible for the recent trend in the increase of the average surface temperatures (note: temperatures aloft have remained stable for the last two decades).Is something happening to cause the recent increases in surface temperatures, possible. Yet in many journal articles I have read on the matter, authors are relucant to point the finger readily at man. Our role in all of this may be insignificant.


wow....talk about scientific knowledge....i was gonna put that forward.

Ok, here is the view. Pollution is accumulating based, it won't happen in a year but over many years. And like it or not, it affects the weather diversely, when it happens, u can never quite tell what cause it, but largely enough it was due to pollution from man.

To say that we have no evidence that we are destroying the earth and slowly killing it largely faulty in explanantion itself. Note that we actually give out CO2, and many of our contraptions and industrial workings are based on machinery, they consume fuel, air, and all sorts of stuff and cause all sorts of pollution.

Of course, not all of us are responsible, farmers take no part in this, but we all can't be taking the role of farmers no?

I would point at myself for being a pollution cause, and i would say as well, largely we are causing these things, it is accumulated from our years upon years of accumulated pollutions, and whatever else. Like it or not, we are actually doing it.

But based on what the Kyoto Protocal have stated, I too agree that in time at least, there will be a reverse decision to join them. It is possible, cause the reason is as you stated. Large industrialized countries in theory (although with a certain degree of proof) does produce more pollution.

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Shkira

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Everyone contributes to it, and the way I see it... it's too late to make a difference in fixing things. We can only delay. *ominous music fading out*

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Yes it is. But is everybody's fault.

  • Dec 27, 2005
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pollution related...the weather is aus is f-ing pissy

aiya.

  • Dec 27, 2005
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once..the ozon layer has a tiny hole but enough to cause an uprise in the temperature..and why? man's work! =.="
sure it's our fault..it's always our fault..u think they'll try to undo what they've already done? it's too much to stop already..yeah...greed is one of the main cause..always thinking of their own needs..>.>

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Now that we've heard from the environmental whacko segment, let's look at things from a scientific perspective.
First of all, the dreaded "Hole in the Ozone Layer" is caused primarily by termperature variances at the pole than by mankind's influence.
True, CFCs break down ozone, but we learend that a long time ago, and there was a huge push to ban and/or limit the use of CFCs in the materials we use.
Then there is the fact that Earth has gone through varying cycles of warming and cooling. I would guaruntee you that had they been around at the time, the environmentalists would have blamed cavemen for the Ice Age.
The truth is, depsite our best computer models, we aren't able to know the climate from the past as much as we'd like to.

And as much as people like ot blame humanity, nature plays its own part. Land masses have moved. Men didn't do that. The shift of land and redistribution of earth and water has altered climate as well.
There wasn't always a Nile Delta. Years of erosion and deposit built it up. It's a land mass, and it's bound to affect climate.
Volcanic eruptions also reshape the landscape, which will affect weather patterns and flow.
Hell, the Earthquake that caused last year's tsunami suposedly shifted the position of the whole planet. Don't tell me that won't affect the weather somewhat.

Also, the Kyoto Accords aren't viable. They would bankrupt industrialized nations, and they make exceptions for developing nations, thus doing nothing to stifle the output of pollution.

If you environmentalists are so upset with the development of the weather, take it up with Mother Nature. She has more to do with it than we do, I assure you.

  • Dec 27, 2005
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Quote by Milkiyoonce..the ozon layer has a tiny hole but enough to cause an uprise in the temperature..and why? man's work! =.="
sure it's our fault..it's always our fault..u think they'll try to undo what they've already done? it's too much to stop already..yeah...greed is one of the main cause..always thinking of their own needs..>.>

Ozone depletion does not cause a net increase in global temperatures. Infact, with fewer O3 molecules to absorb UV radiation, and convert that to heat (part of the reason why the Stratosphere is one giant temperature inversion), there exist a net cooling effect.

And who is this "they" you refer to?

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  • Dec 27, 2005
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Quote by bwebNow that we've heard from the environmental whacko segment, let's look at things from a scientific perspective.
First of all, the dreaded "Hole in the Ozone Layer" is caused primarily by termperature variances at the pole than by mankind's influence.
True, CFCs break down ozone, but we learend that a long time ago, and there was a huge push to ban and/or limit the use of CFCs in the materials we use.
Then there is the fact that Earth has gone through varying cycles of warming and cooling. I would guaruntee you that had they been around at the time, the environmentalists would have blamed cavemen for the Ice Age.
The truth is, depsite our best computer models, we aren't able to know the climate from the past as much as we'd like to.

And as much as people like ot blame humanity, nature plays its own part. Land masses have moved. Men didn't do that. The shift of land and redistribution of earth and water has altered climate as well.
There wasn't always a Nile Delta. Years of erosion and deposit built it up. It's a land mass, and it's bound to affect climate.
Volcanic eruptions also reshape the landscape, which will affect weather patterns and flow.
Hell, the Earthquake that caused last year's tsunami suposedly shifted the position of the whole planet. Don't tell me that won't affect the weather somewhat.

Also, the Kyoto Accords aren't viable. They would bankrupt industrialized nations, and they make exceptions for developing nations, thus doing nothing to stifle the output of pollution.

If you environmentalists are so upset with the development of the weather, take it up with Mother Nature. She has more to do with it than we do, I assure you.


Most of the scientists agree that weather change have always happened but unlike before human activity has probably participated significally now. And the change is widely seen to be faster and more important thanks to that.

And who has contributed now the more to the pollution, developped countries, aren't they ?
So it would be fairer to ask someone to restrict his 4*4 travels and to ask another to eat less ?


For the hole in the ozone layer , I haven't heard it increases temperature but it has a most direct consequence, since exposition to the sun is really dangerous and increase a lot the risk to have cancer... that's a pity to see school children not playing in the air because of that in a country of South America and to have signals too about the sun during the weather forecast -_- , sunny days are dangerous ...

People in Australia and New-Zeland must be cautious too about that.

I think you take an extreme view... so according to you, the countries that have signed Kyoto treaty are stupid... and controlled by the environmental whacko segment.

And you know we can't really act on eartquakes or volcano eruptions, but it isn't like we do nothing to prevent their consequances... or the best and efficient way is to do nothing, and just say after : "oh it's just Mother Nature that created Katrina, nothing to be blamed against any person"


merged: 12-29-2005 ~ 02:33am
For the scientific part, I remember that some Nobel Prize with other scientists of a country wrote an open letter to protest against how science was mistreated by the administration of this country even if the same government claimed to use science's results... even if it seems more it uses the results it wants and discards the rest -_-

So truly, I don't think we use the same scientific knowledge.

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  • Dec 28, 2005
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Quote by almina


merged: 12-29-2005 ~ 02:33am
For the scientific part, I remember that some Nobel Prize with other scientists of a country wrote an open letter to protest against how science was mistreated by the administration of this country even if the same government claimed to use science's results... even if it seems more it uses the results it wants and discards the rest -_-

So truly, I don't think we use the same scientific knowledge.

Nobel Prize? Is that supposed to impress me? Jimmy Carter was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, and his only contribution to Peace was being a weak-willed, spineless twerp who let every nation that wanted to walk all over the United States during his presidency.
I trust the Nobel Prize and the people who issue or are awarded it like a trust a venemous serpent not to bite me.

  • Dec 28, 2005

snarzz

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It is not only mans fault. It also depends on the sun, the sun has irregular behavior sometimes and it is alos a fact that sometimes when there is a flooding you can look at the activity of the sun and see if the activity has been high or not.

Of course it is not only the sun though. Humans cut down fragile ecosystems everyday, I mean, for crying out loud! even the soars are fragile ecosystems but still epople tend to throw stuff that doesnt belong there into it.
But lets take a bigger and more risky ecosystem, The rainforest. That ecosystem is one of the most fragile ecosystems on earth and still countries like the USA cut down millions of threes every year just so they can have some fancy chair or to make place for farms that still will ahve trouble growing things there because of the loose dirt.
There is a cloud or a period once a year in a rainforest *in a place i have forgotten and what the period is called*. But during this period the rain comes down heavily there and this rain also is a part of the ecosystem, but, by cutting down trees this prevents this could to get there when its supposed to, this cutting down of forsests and other things pollutes the air and waters, well actually just about everything i think. Even the rain that comes down from the sky that usually is considered pure is polluted.

Shouldnt the goverments and normal citisens try to change this and try not to destroy the earth as much as possible. There are ways that we could actually stop using gas for the cars. We are drying out the planets resources just so we can get to another place a little bit faster than we really should, I mean...arent we kinda spoiled? dont we owe it to this fine planet that gives us the very life that we are taking from itself to try and think of better solutions?

merged: 12-29-2005 ~ 04:51am

Quote by bweb
Nobel Prize? Is that supposed to impress me? Jimmy Carter was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, and his only contribution to Peace was being a weak-willed, spineless twerp who let every nation that wanted to walk all over the United States during his presidency.
I trust the Nobel Prize and the people who issue or are awarded it like a trust a venemous serpent not to bite me.

excuse me but, he let the himself get trampled on so that his countymed could live, that is not being weak-willed, that is sacrifising something else to protect the very foundation of a land.
*wich is might point out, is the exact opposite of what that Bush is doing*

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  • Dec 28, 2005

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humans are guilty, of course, and particulary with ozone layer (i'm not sure about the real words). they have send molecules whith Cl, and that's why there is a hole in this layer during north pole winter.
but, you have to know that today's temperature are not so heigh than five hundred years ago. with CO2 and CH4, we are speeding a natural phenomena: global temperature rising.

to conclude, problems around weather have two origins: humans and nature circle.
that's what i think about ...

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  • Dec 28, 2005
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Actually yes... part of the weather change is human fault. The ozone layer as others have mentioned is partially our fault, but then again what can we do other from using a lot of Nitrogen Oxide, CFC, HFC etc..... we just have to reduce that so we don't continuously destroy the Ozone Layer.
The temperature because of Global Warming... well that is also linked to the Ozone Layer... if we'd also stop polluting the whole place and follow everything about keeping the environment clean, I think that it wouldn't be so bad.

That's about some of it ^_^, but yes, a part of this weather change is human mistake.

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Quote by bweb

Quote by almina


merged: 12-29-2005 ~ 02:33am
For the scientific part, I remember that some Nobel Prize with other scientists of a country wrote an open letter to protest against how science was mistreated by the administration of this country even if the same government claimed to use science's results... even if it seems more it uses the results it wants and discards the rest -_-

So truly, I don't think we use the same scientific knowledge.

Nobel Prize? Is that supposed to impress me? Jimmy Carter was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, and his only contribution to Peace was being a weak-willed, spineless twerp who let every nation that wanted to walk all over the United States during his presidency.
I trust the Nobel Prize and the people who issue or are awarded it like a trust a venemous serpent not to bite me.

-_- I've thougth we were talking about scientists... so according to you the fact that some american scientists that have won some Nobel Prize wrote a kind of warning about their government doesn't mean anything... or you think that the scientists that have won the Nobel Prize aren't really scientists...

-_- well that's interesting to know that some people discard the contribution of the people that were awarded a Nobel Prize.

Oh well if with science we can't even trust eminent scientists, who can we trust for that ? Oh yes, the goverment that pick the scientific result they want.

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  • Dec 29, 2005
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Quote by almina
-_- I've thougth we were talking about scientists... so according to you the fact that some american scientists that have won some Nobel Prize wrote a kind of warning about their government doesn't mean anything... or you think that the scientists that have won the Nobel Prize aren't really scientists...

-_- well that's interesting to know that some people discard the contribution of the people that were awarded a Nobel Prize.

Oh well if with science we can't even trust eminent scientists, who can we trust for that ? Oh yes, the goverment that pick the scientific result they want.

I trust science. But only to a point. Scientists are human, and that means that they have biases. Those biases influence their opinions.
The scientists in question, if you looked deep into their background, would undoubtedly be people who have ties to either such moronic ideological groups as Greenpeace, or who have made campaign contributions to the DNC, or who have been promised funding for their research by said groups. And I'm not just talking recently. This pattern of behavior on their part would go back years, even decades.

So do I fault the Administration for picking which scientists they listen to? Nope. Any scientist found to have such a bias should be removed so that they can't pollute the data pool with their idiocy and preconceptions.

  • Dec 29, 2005
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Quote by bweb
I trust science. But only to a point. Scientists are human, and that means that they have biases. Those biases influence their opinions.
The scientists in question, if you looked deep into their background, would undoubtedly be people who have ties to either such moronic ideological groups as Greenpeace, or who have made campaign contributions to the DNC, or who have been promised funding for their research by said groups. And I'm not just talking recently. This pattern of behavior on their part would go back years, even decades.

So do I fault the Administration for picking which scientists they listen to? Nope. Any scientist found to have such a bias should be removed so that they can't pollute the data pool with their idiocy and preconceptions.

-_- I think I'm really naive and I tend to not see the bad in people but with experience I am not that trusty to my own goverment even if I voted for it. I know they defend sometimes some groups' interests, not the whole population's ones.

And Bush's government doesnt really stand out like one that doesn't defend certain groups.

Do you know that the scientific consensus is that humankind has an important influence on weather change ? So according to your view, there's only a minority of scientists that are rig... that have more or less the view of Bush and all the other ones must be fired. Great thing for science.

Ok now I'm going back to read all my biaised, environmental, antibush, (rigth-wing and left-wing), unamerican, unscientific, full of lies, brainwashing so-called news sources like AP, Guardian that dare not unlike every reasonnable people take their news of the american government.

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  • Dec 29, 2005
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Quote by almina
Ok now I'm going back to read all my biaised, environmental, antibush, (rigth-wing and left-wing), unamerican, unscientific, full of lies, brainwashing so-called news sources like AP, Guardian .

What you say in irony, I hold in conviction. The AP and the Guardian are left-wing groups, and if you don't think they're lying to you, then you're quite naive.

  • Dec 30, 2005
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Quote by bweb

Quote by almina
Ok now I'm going back to read all my biaised, environmental, antibush, (rigth-wing and left-wing), unamerican, unscientific, full of lies, brainwashing so-called news sources like AP, Guardian .

What you say in irony, I hold in conviction. The AP and the Guardian are left-wing groups, and if you don't think they're lying to you, then you're quite naive.

-_- Coming from someone that depends on his goverment to know what stance adopts for scientific matters, it's quite...

Your position reminds me a lot "You're with me or against me".

Let's see if according to you they have efficiently lied to me... number of times I have voted for a left-wing candidate... err... zero, zero and zero or never if you like better... I have always voted for a rigth-wing candidate but I have voted once against the option supported by the party I have chosen and I disagree on some other things like what is actually the hot topic now.

What about The Telegraph, Le Figaro, BBC (between the actual belief, it has a more conservative view), TF1 and LCI (since these are the two tv channels I watch and they are rigth-wing, I like to equilibrate by reading "more" left-wing newspapers) ?
Funnily enough, I've thougth that press corporations like AP and Reuters weren't rigth or lift-wing since they are supposed to provide just information to other bodies, not opinions.

And you know I think that at school (at least it's one of the things I was teached) we learn to differenciate facts from opinions, to know what being objective is, to have our own opinion and make it evolve by confronting it to other opinions, reality and other things like books, news... I have never learnt to follow like a good sheep any group and I really believe that if we are clever beings, we have to use our reason, not give it up to anyone else.

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  • Dec 30, 2005
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Weather changes cannot be caused by nature because research shows that when machines when up, the temperature called global warming continued rising. Glaciers that had been dormant for centuries suddenly fell apart and started to melt. I think a mountain actually decreased in size. The reason no one makes a move towards man is because who likes admit they are the cause of trouble? Scientists expect that another Ice Age might appear in a few centuries or so. Lots of things are possible for this, but if man didn't have a single hand in it, why would so many factories and such try to cut down pollution and increase efficiency all of a sudden?

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Well it's hard to believe that we have done nothing to affect the environment and I think that if we don't start making some major changes we won't be here for much longer because you don't mess with mother nature. Even with all our technology people are still dying from exposure whether to heat or cold so what chance would we have if the earth decided to fight back and I think it already has.

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  • Dec 30, 2005

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yes, unfortunatly is mans fault that wather and nature's forces been changing so drasctically this last times. pollution and mans wrong doing related to nature has debalanced the natural equilibrium that the planet once before had

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  • Dec 30, 2005

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