The Unagreeable Dispute, and the Futility of it all

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AWOL

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I've browsed through many forums, and I've honestly never seen such a archive set for discussions, such as this.

This is the first time I am going to make such a thread and it probably would be my last. Why? You may ask. Then I would like to ask; why are we discussing such sensitive topics? Almost EVERY thread in here spouts opinions and ideas so strong that it makes my hair stand on end.

The statement for this thread is this: There will never come to be an agreement with the existance of a high creator or not, so why is there a section for this? Are we only just trying to share our point of view? Or is it a place for activists to try to convert each other? The latter seems to be the case to me.

Purpose is what drives many things, and it always holds true for arguments. And what is the purpose of these threads? To try to twist and deviate many minds? Confusing and instilling doubts into the faith by the thousands? Is that called the 'freedom of expression and speech'? If the answer is yes, then perhaps it is time for us to rethink this policy for it is what which instigated many wars.

I see the futility of holding arguments which cannot be solved and may cause many disputes; I don't expect everyone to agree with me. The mods may not like my statement either. But still, it must be said.

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Purpose of these threads to just see see other people perspective on things. A subjective topic(opinion-based) topic is very interesting since many people disgree and agree. Some want to see other people opinions and compare them with themselves. People always argue what the real truth is about something. where there's a negative theres a positive. like you said "for it is what which instigated many wars" is what the arguments do. But arguments can lead to good decision making that can help people as a whole. Arguing over something that frail(or has no truth) is just what interests alot of people.

"Where's there is light, there's a shadow" (Hattori Hanzo from Samurai Warriors)

  • Feb 03, 2006

AWOL

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Quote by k4poloPurpose of these threads to just see see other people perspective on things. A subjective topic(opinion-based) topic is very interesting since many people disgree and agree. Some want to see other people opinions and compare them with themselves. People always argue what the real truth is about something. where there's a negative theres a positive. like you said "for it is what which instigated many wars" is what the arguments do. But arguments can lead to good decision making that can help people as a whole. Arguing over something that frail(or has no truth) is just what interests alot of people.

Which is what I said why threads are meant to share opinions; but it does not stop there. It shows how clearly and strongly an extremely contrasting point of view, one which is regularly argued about and may cause misunderstandings and unhappiness. We don't want that to happen, do we?

You said that this is for interest's sake, but some ethically disintegrating issues are very interesting as well, but we don't have to make it public, do we? Some things are best kept to yourself, lest you offend some other people. Say they aren't open-minded, but you can't possibly change them all. Furthermore, such issues are very sensitive, thus the chances of offending and causing more misunderstanding amongst posters will become higher and more apparent.

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I would agree that a lot of these topics are indeed futile. No one seems to be able to convince each other of their viewpoints (which is what most are trying to do). I know this because I myself have participated in it.

However, I also learned quite a bit from participating. Rather than limiting this forum to the evolution vs. creation debate, there are a variety of topics that are discussed here.

I may not succeed in persuading others (particularly if they are stubborn), but I was able to challenge my own faith (and provide answers), read about another faith through someone who belongs to that faith, and ultimately, learn why some people believe in a God while others don't; why people prefer religion or science. I was also able to challege (non-threatening ones, of course) those who didn't agree with me with questions and/or opinions that they did not think of. The replies taught me quite a lot.

Arguments occur, of course - they are debates mostly, after all. But friendly arguments can also lead to knowledge, understanding, and, as k4polo already mentioned, "good decision-making that can help people as a whole."

Maybe you could be less critical and try to figure out why the people wrote what they wrote? You may be able to learn much more about the world than you ever imagined possible.

  • Feb 05, 2006

Finalzero0000

Ninja Commander

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Not everyone agrees in this world with every thing. I doubt this world will be like that anytime soon with how the situation is. Everyone makes decisions based on their own life. Whether or not they find the decision worth it is under the weight of their willingness to accept it. It's very hard for everyone to agree with everyone and arguments are bound to happen. In the end, knowing this should help you decide whether or not it is worth caring about the actions and opinions of others. If you can't change the situation, you might as well find a way around or avoid it, in order to obtain more of the results of the end you wish to achieve. This is my opinion.

  • Feb 05, 2006

joemighty16

joemighty16

Hope is an optimist

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So what? If people are willing to debate, they will, if they are to sensitive they won't. Usually people tend to respect each others and their opinions. Sure, sometimes open war is declared over topics such as religion, wit no chance of converting the other parties. But thats not the point. The last thing, I tjink, anyone wants is the assumption of members that everyone agrees with them. There are to many different cultures and religions here on MT and coming out of a certain religious and culture dominated society, is it fascinating for me to read about other people.

That they don't agree on certain topics is irrelevent. Its their right to debate just as much as it is your right to question the point of their debate.

Life is a game played by gods who are bored and who fight over the rules.

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Oh noes someone may have a different opinion than you. On the internet no less? Oh dear. Perhaps we should all bury our heads in the sand.

If your opinions/beliefs/faiths are that easily swayed then you should probably stay out of this place I suppose.

Not everyone here is out to convert you. We're not so naive as to think you can change a person's faith that they've had instilled in them since they were born with a few posts on an anime message board. It's just fun to argue. Sometimes someone hits you with an idea you really have to think about, something you wouldn't have stumbled across anywhere else, and you have to go through the process of logically placing it and possibly refuting it. There's no gain without conflict. You can't just constantly surround yourself with people who have the same opinions as you do. Only the president does that (Uh oh was that a crack at the president? Hope I didn't hurt anyone's feelings! Politics and religion should always be kept to yourself!).

  • Mar 05, 2006
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If you're worried about people becoming angry with each other because they are too immature to discuss something with civility that's their fault. They do not have the right to post hateful messages on MT because it is against their rules. Discussing something in order to gain knowledge and test your current understanding is a good thing and it's fun too. ^_^

  • Mar 05, 2006

crsg

crsg

Artemis

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There's nothing wrong with people disagreeing on topics. And I think you're right - people will never wholly agree on discussions such as religion or whatever. But that doesn't make it bad. What's wrong with a good debate if everyone gets their opinions heard? Anyone who comments on something like that clearly wants their opinions heard, so unless they decide to get them heard in a crude and offensive manner, isn't is a good thing that people comment?

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After reading all post in this thread I only can say this:

Things that may appear futile to one person can be vital for oher people, and as far I know that's how the world work.

So true belivings of one can be nothing to other, but I don't agree with you, a thread is only to share you own point of view, I think that's better that remain silent, even when there's opposed oppinions.

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  • Mar 05, 2006
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Here's a simile you might find interesting (or useless):

Imagine an idea to be like a sword. Swords may be blunt and swords may be sharp. The more time one spends working upon the sword, the stronger, sharper and more balanced it will generally become. This process is called 'honing'. If a sword is not honed it will be weak, blunt and unbalanced. This, you will surely agree is undesirable for the warrior.

Ideas may similarly be honed. Unlike a sword, however, the process of honing an idea must not only be a private affair. It concerns many.

When many discuss an idea, the idea is evaluated. If it is weak, it is generally discarded. A swordsmith would not choose weak metal for his task. If there is the possibility of strength, however, the opinions of many may hone the idea and improve it through use of reasoned arguments and reference to fact.

Here, perhaps is a reason for your discussion of these points. They may never be solved, but they may be improved and spread. We are all sharpening the same blade.

Ed (Drills)

  • Mar 05, 2006

AWOL

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Quote by drills


Here, perhaps is a reason for your discussion of these points. They may never be solved, but they may be improved and spread. We are all sharpening the same blade.

That's interesting. But I have only one thing to ask: What do we do with the sharpened blade then? To kill another's ideals?

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Possibly. I used the metaphor of a sword because I like thinking of ideas as being blunt and sharp, with room for further sharpening. I think to extend the idea to that of militarism and killing, might be a step too far, even though many ideas are often aggressive.

The thing is, ideas are extremely flexible and can be put to many uses including so-called 'good'and 'bad'. Swords are not only used for offense, however- they can be tools with which to protect yourself and others.

With a sharp sword you can cut your way out of a forest, which obscures your vision and blocks your path. Perhaps we can apply this analogy to life and using ideas to make it easier.

  • Mar 06, 2006

RubyDrg0n

Wanna-be-Drg0n

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AWOL: you just did something to give reason why we argue...(which is mostly question and answer basically.... and proving rite and wrong complicately)

WE argue to learn.... some argue to convert.... some argue for the fun of it.... some argue to teach.... some argue to let the world know he exist.... i argue to get my sister to get her own computer and leave mine alone....

so argueing is not really bad... its the quality of it that matters(argue with me about that and we learn)

  • Mar 06, 2006

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