Upcoming Adjustments to the Credit System

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shinsengumi

Retired Moderator

shinsengumi

. . . remember me?

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Dear Minitokyo Community,

In response to comments made and concerns voiced by members regarding the credit system, we will be adjusting the credit system as it pertains to posts sometime tomorrow in a way that should reduce the amount of spam as well as increase the amount of detail in both comments and discussions.

The new system will have a number of key features:

Longer posts will earn more credits than shorter posts, though with diminishing returns to scale.
In order to reward members who take time and effort to make thoughtful, constructive, and detailed remarks, the system will grant more credits to longer posts than it will to shorter ones. However, the longer a post becomes, the less each additional character will be worth in terms of credits, so posting an eight-page political dissertation will not make a user much wealthier than someone who was more succinct in jotting their thoughts down. After all, on Minitokyo we're looking for discussion and not soliloquies. Also, including quotations will not increase the amount of credits earned. Furthermore, the overuse of ellipses, repeated strings of smiley faces, or any other activities for artificially increasing the length of posts will not be tolerated.

Short posts will cost credits.
To cut down on spam posts and comments, we have decided that instead of instituting a minimum character count for posts, we will actually dock credits from posts that have less than 50 characters. Again, artificially lengthening posts will not be tolerated.

Having one of your threads posted to will not earn you credits.
This one should be fairly self-explanatory. Eliminating income from created threads should reduce the incentive of members to create threads such as "what is your favorite __" or "what are you ___ now" threads that, while often popular, seldom lead to any meaningful discussion.

The credit system will not affect the Chat Lounge.
While most posts in the Chat Lounge do not meet the 50-character threshold, you cannot lose credits in the Chat Lounge. At the same time, you cannot earn any credits by participating in the Chat Lounge either.


Please note that it is the policy of the Moderator Staff to never disclose specifics of the credit system, such as how many credits the system grants or takes for certain actions, to the community in order to prevent abuse. However, if you have any other comments or concerns, please do not hesitate to let us know and we will see what we can do to be of assistance.

Sincerely,
shinsengumi, on behalf of the Moderator Staff
__________

Edit: Looks like it'll take a bit longer than expected, but rest assured, we'll be rolling this out soon!

s h i n s e n g u m i
Minitokyo Policy, Forum, Review, and Category Maintenance Moderator Emeritus

Do not expect to be applauded when you do the right thing, and do not expect to be forgiven when you err, but even your enemies will respect commitment, and a conscience at peace is worth a thousand tainted victories.

Ayamael

Ayamael

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Phew, thanks for the news shinsengumi! I was one of those people concerned about non-artists members of MT. I'm glad to see their participation won't be a waste now. Now it will be more fair to everyone. And will definitely encourage participation in the forum. A question though, does this also apply to gallery comments or only to the forum?

EternalParadox

Retired Moderator

EternalParadox

.:Enigma Mod:.

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The credit system will apply to galleries, group comments, and review comments. The same reasoning applies to all these cases, as we want to reward members who make genuinely meaningful comments while prevent others from taking advantage through spam.

EternalParadox
Previously the Forum, Vector Art, and Policy Moderator

  • Feb 10, 2006

AngelKate

AngelKate

~*Lady Sweetness*~

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Cool idea. This will help the members that don't wall or contribute gallery items. :) Hopefully this will lessen the amount of spammers too.

And its also a good idea for posts to not count in the chat lounge, since most of it is just spam anyway lol.

Kudos to the changes. :)

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fluke

fluke

Part-time Vector Artist

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This sounds very interesting...a very well thought out infrastructure indeed. I like and agree with all the idea's in the new credit system so far. I know because of it I have become a more active member of minitokyo and try to contribute as much as possible. I can see with this new system that the ranks here at minitokyo might deminish because of these new rules, but I think that is part of the point to either be part of the community or not be here at all.

Ayamael

Ayamael

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Quote by EternalParadoxThe credit system will apply to galleries, group comments, and review comments. The same reasoning applies to all these cases, as we want to reward members who make genuinely meaningful comments while prevent others from taking advantage through spam.


Thanks for the answer ^^ Now I can say this system will really be fairer to everyone. And it will definitely discourage spamming, well, it better, otherwise they'll pay for it ~_~. If it doesn't, then it must be because spammers don't read the news XD. Hopefully we'll finally stop seeing comments like "Cool, I like, + fave" in the gallery. Those are always a little disappointing to read for artists . This is really the best option for everyone I think. Great job!

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Great...this will definitely help encourage more thoughtful responses...and 50 chars isn't so long that it will be constraining in the least...hopefully it will encourage good responses on the forums and the gallery items (which as ayamael said) have been a little lacking lately
Also glad that it'll be more fair to nonartists...makes for a better environment for all :)

candy-chan

Retired Moderator

candy-chan

on extended hiatus

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I think all of these new changes are extremely good ideas. that makes me a happier member :D

now let's work on the gallery system XD

ShrinkNerv4Eva

ShrinkNerv4Eva

Wanna-be Anime Junkie

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I like this idea. It makes sense. Except, How long is 50 characters?

  • Feb 10, 2006

fireflywishes

Retired Moderator, Linguistics

fireflywishes

Calgon, take me away~!

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I'm not sure how I feel about the first one, but I agree with all the other ones. Not all long posts are meaningful and some people are just good a being concise in their replies. How will the system be able to determine that a long post is worthy of more credits if the person is just rambling? Don't worry, I know better than to ask how credits are distributed, but those are just my concerns at the moment. Overall, I'm glad to see that MT staff is rewarding those members who actually put some thought into their responses.

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Devildude

Devildude

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This is indeed a welcome adjustment, now we can actually earn more credits for participating and this is good for people who have lesser artistic skill. I am glad to see this happening. Hope now we can be more equal as "Wallers on the top of the food chain and non-wallers are expendable" basis.
I see a bright future ahead (for now, until someone finds a flaw if any to exploit this system) for this new system.
Many thanks to the staff for keeping the site going strong.

Oh and 50 characters should be half of my post, you do the maths. XD

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littlejonny100

Retired Moderator

littlejonny100

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I too am now a happy chappy. One of my biggest concerns is the amount of crap that comes through gallery items and the like, but this new system means if i stay clear of the chat lounge then i might actually read a few more intelligent comments in both threads and on gallery items.

50 charcters will be fun as well....i bet there will be a lot of people who will actually start to count their posts. Also i have a habit of putting in dots...... (<--like so) to indicate a pause.....will i end up getting in trouble for that?

"Do upon others as they would do upon you......except do it sooner, more often and better! "

djay345

djay345

Wannabe Princess

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This is a very good idea as it will not only increase the level of peoples discussions it will also force people to really examine peoples artwork so that they will be able to post more meaningful and thoughtful comments in the gallery!

I do however disagree slightly with the fact that users won't be awarded credits for posts received on their thread. Maybe there is a better way of introducing that rule?

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then how about forum? will it apply credit system too?

  • Feb 10, 2006

Bluearth

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A Panda lover??

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A good idea there, but I have the concern that for scans, do they apply the same or is it only for the other gallery items? Because its is quite hard to comment on the scans sometimes. x.x And a good way also to encourage participation, people might start to find some other ways other than creating new threads about what's your favourite character. But many people might start a thread of the same topic only with a slight change. You might want to look into that as well. And also, look forward to a series of complaints by those who can't communicate in minitokyo very well soon. ;p;
[edit] Oh yeah, some people who always speak slang might start to type properly too ^_^' Just to gain characters. ;)

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tanteikun

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Shinsengumi, I am highly critical of this resolution.

Quote: Longer posts will earn more credits than shorter posts, though with diminishing returns to scale.


The quality of the posts are independent of the length.

Secondly, how would the MT system evaluate each responses? Several Moderators have complained the fact that everytime they log on to MT, they are busy processing reports and such. I couldn't possibly imagine that they would have time to process extraneous reports relating to this area. A such report might come in the form of "oblivious attempt at lengthing the post" etc. It might be a good idea, but in reality, i am concerned for its unintended results.

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  • Feb 10, 2006

shinsengumi

Retired Moderator

shinsengumi

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Quote by ov2reythen how about forum? will it apply credit system too?

You lucked out on this one, as it would barely squeak past the minimum character count. Anyhow, I apologize if I did not make things clear enough, but these changes to the credit system affect every part of the website where users can post, forums included.


Quote by littlejonny100Also i have a habit of putting in dots...... (<--like so) to indicate a pause.....will i end up getting in trouble for that?

The grouping of consecutive periods is a grammatical construct known as an ellipsis which indicates a pause. I would love if people put in exactly three periods whenever they used ellipses, but then again I wish that people would always write using proper grammar and style as well as making sure they spell things correctly, but I know that for some people, English isn't their primary language and other people can't be bothered. The bottom line is that ellipses are fine, as long as one doesn't go overboard on them.


Quote by fireflywishesNot all long posts are meaningful and some people are just good a being concise in their replies. How will the system be able to determine that a long post is worthy of more credits if the person is just rambling?

It is true that longer posts do not necessarily mean better posts. However, at the same time, longer posts tend to be indicative of greater effort by the person making the post to collect his or her thoughts and to form a coherent argument, and therefore as a rule of thumb, longer posts will always generate more credits.

However, the added value for each additional character decreases, a phenomenon that students of economics will quickly recognize as decreasing returns to scale. I will use an example to illustrate the practical effect of such a scheme. Take, for example, a member who frequents the forums. If that member were to make a post of a reasonable length, he would earn X credits. If he were to make a post exactly twice as long as his original post, he would earn a value greater than X but less than 2X. This way, we also provide a disincentive for users to simply ramble on and on, because multiple posts that are concise and to the point will be more profitable than one really long, detailed post that nobody really wants to take the time to read through to begin with.


I hope I have addressed the concerns that have been raised so far!

s h i n s e n g u m i
Minitokyo Policy, Forum, Review, and Category Maintenance Moderator Emeritus

Do not expect to be applauded when you do the right thing, and do not expect to be forgiven when you err, but even your enemies will respect commitment, and a conscience at peace is worth a thousand tainted victories.

shoujoboy

shoujoboy

Launching shoujoboy 2.0

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I'm thinking that these new add-ons may very well make the forums much more enjoyable or at least more tolerable. These posts that just end up being "what is ur fav GSD character ^^" get annoying quick. Legitamate posts with legitamate conversation is much better.

Under construction. Who doesn't like plain text anyway?

  • Feb 10, 2006
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Let me elaborate on the Law of Diminishing Returns part.

Let us use a burger stand example commonly found in economics textbooks.

Assuming you are manning a burger stand and selling burgers. The amount of burgers you can make is limited due to the fact that you have to grill the meat patty, prepare the bread, spread the lettuce, put maiyonaise and wrap the burgers. I'll stick to 5 tasks to make it easier.

As you add in one more unit of labour (by hiring an additional helper), you can make more burgers because the task is spread out. Someone will prepare the bread, spread the lettuce and spread the maiyonaise while you grill the meat patty and then do the wrapping. As you add in more labour, productivity increases resulting in increased output.

However, if you hire too many helpers, they are going to crowd out the burger stand. Some will have to wait their turn to work on the burger tasks. Some tasks cannot be performed because a pre-requisite task has yet to be completed. Basically, you are facing a bottleneck which limits productivity.

Graph-wise, it's an inverted bell graph.

Like-wise, type in too few words, you get little credits (or get some deducted from your account) but the longer you type, the more amount you'll get. Type in too much, the credits alloted per character (I'm assuming it's counted on a character-by-character basis) will drop.

This is the first time I actually seen a diminishing returns concept being employed since the conventional method would be the straight-line return or those with a cap. Whether it will result in a disadvantage or not is an interesting observation.

But I can see that asking some simple questions will be penalized due to not meeting the character count floor.

  • Feb 10, 2006

fluke

fluke

Part-time Vector Artist

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Quote by littlejonny100I too am now a happy chappy. One of my biggest concerns is the amount of crap that comes through gallery items and the like, but this new system means if i stay clear of the chat lounge then i might actually read a few more intelligent comments in both threads and on gallery items.

50 charcters will be fun as well....i bet there will be a lot of people who will actually start to count their posts. Also i have a habit of putting in dots...... (<--like so) to indicate a pause.....will i end up getting in trouble for that?


I think proper grammar dictates only 3 dots when spacing for a pause...like so. Crap this aint 50 characters hehe.

edit: my bad I hadn't read down to where shinsen had answered you.

Spystreak

Retired Moderator

Spystreak

The Grim Reaper

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Quote by kiopiLet me elaborate on the Law of Diminishing Returns part.

Let us use a burger stand example commonly found in economics textbooks.

Assuming you are manning a burger stand and selling burgers. The amount of burgers you can make is limited due to the fact that you have to grill the meat patty, prepare the bread, spread the lettuce, put maiyonaise and wrap the burgers. I'll stick to 5 tasks to make it easier.

As you add in one more unit of labour (by hiring an additional helper), you can make more burgers because the task is spread out. Someone will prepare the bread, spread the lettuce and spread the maiyonaise while you grill the meat patty and then do the wrapping. As you add in more labour, productivity increases resulting in increased output.

However, if you hire too many helpers, they are going to crowd out the burger stand. Some will have to wait their turn to work on the burger tasks. Some tasks cannot be performed because a pre-requisite task has yet to be completed. Basically, you are facing a bottleneck which limits productivity.

Graph-wise, it's an inverted bell graph.

Like-wise, type in too few words, you get little credits (or get some deducted from your account) but the longer you type, the more amount you'll get. Type in too much, the credits alloted per character (I'm assuming it's counted on a character-by-character basis) will drop.

This is the first time I actually seen a diminishing returns concept being employed since the conventional method would be the straight-line return or those with a cap. Whether it will result in a disadvantage or not is an interesting observation.

But I can see that asking some simple questions will be penalized due to not meeting the character count floor.

To elaborate further you spam you lose credits nuff said. You don't get anything for comments like "I heart monkeys" that's spam and you lose credits. Think of it as an incentive to put more thought into your posts. However in the case of Chat Lounge you will get credits but not the same as the rest since it is quite easy to make 60 posts in the Chat Lounge.

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Quote by SpystreakTo elaborate further you spam you lose credits nuff said. You don't get anything for comments like "I heart monkeys" that's spam and you lose credits. Think of it as an incentive to put more thought into your posts. However in the case of Chat Lounge you will get credits but not the same as the rest since it is quite easy to make 60 posts in the Chat Lounge.

It is more of summarisation on your part rather than further elaboration actually.

  • Feb 10, 2006

Spystreak

Retired Moderator

Spystreak

The Grim Reaper

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Quote by chaossnakePLEASE DO NOT DO THE SHORT COMMENTS COSTING CREDITS! Thats really not fair. I can see not getting any credits for them but taking credits? Like this. Im getting to the point but it's under 50 words. please don't do that.

No no it's not 50 words that you have to post it's 50 characters or letters. Asking every post to be 50 words is absurd and would never be thought of unless it were a post in a thread with serious discussion going on

merged: 02-11-2006 ~ 03:42am

Quote by kiopi

Quote by SpystreakTo elaborate further you spam you lose credits nuff said. You don't get anything for comments like "I heart monkeys" that's spam and you lose credits. Think of it as an incentive to put more thought into your posts. However in the case of Chat Lounge you will get credits but not the same as the rest since it is quite easy to make 60 posts in the Chat Lounge.

It is more of summarisation on your part rather than further elaboration actually.

It's both actually a summary for those like you and I who clearly understand what is being said but also an elaboration for those who are still a little uncertain.

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shinsengumi

Retired Moderator

shinsengumi

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Quote by chaossnalePLEASE DO NOT DO THE SHORT COMMENTS COSTING CREDITS! Thats really not fair. I can see not getting any credits for them but taking credits? Like this. Im getting to the point but it's under 50 words. please don't do that.

You misunderstand; the new system will not penalize for not having at least fifty words. Rather, it will penalize for having under fifty characters. Your post had 220 characters, so you would gain credits under the new system with that post.

Besides, having comments of less than fifty characters cost credits is definitely more fair than giving them as many credits as members who have taken the time to write more detailed posts. Remember that the system is not set up to penalize members, but to discourage (but not prohibit) them from certain actions, and by removing incentives to write short, spammy posts, it does the community a service by not subjecting other forum-goers to as many short, inane comments as would otherwise appear.

s h i n s e n g u m i
Minitokyo Policy, Forum, Review, and Category Maintenance Moderator Emeritus

Do not expect to be applauded when you do the right thing, and do not expect to be forgiven when you err, but even your enemies will respect commitment, and a conscience at peace is worth a thousand tainted victories.

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