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Upcoming Adjustments to the Credit System

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Ayamael

Ayamael

yumemitai

Quote by SpystreakTo elaborate further you spam you lose credits nuff said. You don't get anything for comments like "I heart monkeys" that's spam and you lose credits. Think of it as an incentive to put more thought into your posts. However in the case of Chat Lounge you will get credits but not the same as the rest since it is quite easy to make 60 posts in the Chat Lounge.

Sorry Spystreak, but now you're really mixing me up... Shinsengumi says in his post we don't lose NOR get credits in the Chat lounge... so why do you say we will get credits? Or am I just too tired, or braindead to get it what you said? ^_^'


And wow, that system really scares some people o_O.

shinsengumi

Retired Moderator

shinsengumi

. . . remember me?

Quote by Ayamael Sorry Spystreak, but now you're really mixing me up... Shinsengumi says in his post we don't lose NOR get credits in the Chat lounge... so why do you say we will get credits? Or am I just too tired, or braindead to get it what you said? ^_^'

Spystreak was incorrect; the Chat Lounge will exist outside of the new credit system.

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Spystreak

Retired Moderator

Spystreak

The Grim Reaper

ahhh whoops sorry for confusing anyone. My mistake.

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Seems pretty reasonable to me. I guess it will cut down on people's spamming for credits since most people who had signed up onto this website do make extremely short comments such as "cool! nice one!" etc. I guess that will cut down on it since some people do value their credits.

Seems to me like the credits are a big part of the entire website now ne? Ah well, its good people are making rules to keep cheaters and leechers on their heels^^

somebodyelse

Retired Moderator

somebodyelse

Pacman's mouthpiece

I see some people are concerned about the 50 characters thing. Just so people will have a basis for comparison, I'm going to put 50 characters immediately below. (Don't report this as spam, it serves a purpose. lol)

0123456789 012345678 qwertyuio asdfghjkl zxcvbnm?!

This looks like approximately half a line. My thing is anybody that puts 30 seconds of thought into a comment should easily come up with at least a line or two.

BTW, I was one of the people arguing for the sliding scale; one of my caveats was basically my concern that certain people would hit on the idea of copy/pasting very long documents from their computers having nothing to do with the discussion. This behavior should stick out like a sore thumb, so if anybody sees any of these *cough* heroes, turn 'em in so we can get their spam out of the system and deal with them as appropriate.

And as far as the chat lounge, basically what Shin said is nothing you put in the Chat Lounge affects your credits down or up, one way or another. So the 50 character thing isn't applicable there. Hope that clears things up, later!
:pacman:

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Aoi Nishimata goodies! Check my gallery out!

I think this new credit system is really neat. Not only does it eliminate spam but it makes people really contribute to the forums.

I'm glad that more adjustments will be made to the credit system to make it fairer for those of us who do not submit wallpapers but who do make an effort to comment on other members submissions etc... whilst Minitokyo is trying to cut down on spammers and leechers, whatever system you guys come up with is never going to be perfect... you will always get some members who will abuse the system, I hope that you will come up with the way to tackle this without curtailing the freedom of other members like myself who are not able to contribute anything to this community in an artistic way... comments, ideas and thoughts are of value and I'm glad that people can gain credits from making posts like this outside of the forums.

As many people have said before, credits are like money, I think we should be allowed to see how much we actually do have rather than only being shown the amount if it gets lower than 128... as the value goes up incrementally over the period of 24 hours, I really don't think many secrets would be given out with regards to how you can accumulate them. I would personally feel much more in control and happier if I could see the exact amount of credits I have... I would for instance be very unhappy if my bank refused to tell me how much credit I actually had until it dipped below a certain level... being kept in the dark about your own personal credit details makes me extremely uneasy indeed... I hope that you reinstate this information when you make your upcoming adjustments to the credit system as it is up to each individual member to decide on how to spend their credits or ration them as needs be... nobody likes to be kept in dark and I think the vast majority of us would be a lot happier to be able to see this information available to us once more especially in light of the fact that you are making so many adjustments to the credit system...

BotFreya

Administrator

BotFreya

Earthly Observer

Quote by missy1066As many people have said before, credits are like money, I think we should be allowed to see how much we actually do have rather than only being shown the amount if it gets lower than 128...

As was clear from some of the comments on the recent free download quota discussion thread, many members have gotten into the habit of considering the free download quota as a literal download quota rather than a freebie.

If Minitokyo were an ice cream parlor, you would use your hard-earned credits to buy the ice cream. You could buy just one scoop, for example if you were poor or if you wanted to save your credits. Or, if you were better-endowed, you could buy a substantial-sized hot fudge sundae. Regardless of how much you buy, as a little gift, the parlor management puts a juicy red cherry on the top of your ice cream. That cherry is like the download quota. The staff tosses it in for free as a gift to members, but it definitely is not the main event; the real substance of your delectable dessert is the ice cream you purchased with your hard-earned credits.

To get back to the original question, let us consider what exactly 128 credits entails. nat's lovely Carried Away wallpaper, which is currently highlighted, cost me 0.2 credits to download, and this nice (and extremely high-resolution) My-HiME scan, cost me 1.8 credits to download. Simply-stated, 128 credits is quite a lot of credits! You can definitely purchase quite a lot of ice cream with that many credits in your wallet.

If you have enough credits such that you can't even see how many you have, I really see no reason why you really need to know how many credits you have left. Sure, you may want to know, but honestly, you're certainly not going to use it all up soon (unless you voraciously devour gallery items for breakfast, lunch, and dinner). When you hit 128 credits, you'll know that you should keep an eye on your expenditures, but even so, you're in no immediate danger.

Besides, I think hiding the figure helps to reduce any incentive for members to hoard credits. Credits are, after all, meant to be spent, and if you have at least 128 credits, then by all means, eat more ice cream!

wow, all these changes.
I think they're good improvements since they encourage not just participation, but meaningful participation.
although, I'm wondering. How long does it for the credits to register? I don't really keep track of what I view or what I respond to, but I've been posting comments and such on a fairly regular basis, yet the credits reported dont' seem to change at all. [is puzzled]

Anjhurin

Linguistics

Anjhurin

ARIA sanchou

Okay i've just got a little question : how will the system combine one post (like the one i'm doing right now), and an update i might later add thanks to the merge function ?
Say that my first post is under the 50 characters limit, then i should lose some credits. But then i want to add something (a meaningfull sentence of course :) ), and it exceeds that limits, therefore earning me (maybe) credits.
Will the 2 posts be considered separately, therefore making me loose credits both times, or together, earning me credits? Or even maybe the loosing of credits from the first post will be nullified by the winning of credits after the merge !

It's not really a vital question though !

Devildude

Devildude

- Alstroemeria Records -

Quote by BotFreya

Quote by missy1066As many people have said before, credits are like money, I think we should be allowed to see how much we actually do have rather than only being shown the amount if it gets lower than 128...

As was clear from some of the comments on the recent free download quota discussion thread, many members have gotten into the habit of considering the free download quota as a literal download quota rather than a freebie.

If Minitokyo were an ice cream parlor, you would use your hard-earned credits to buy the ice cream. You could buy just one scoop, for example if you were poor or if you wanted to save your credits. Or, if you were better-endowed, you could buy a substantial-sized hot fudge sundae. Regardless of how much you buy, as a little gift, the parlor management puts a juicy red cherry on the top of your ice cream. That cherry is like the download quota. The staff tosses it in for free as a gift to members, but it definitely is not the main event; the real substance of your delectable dessert is the ice cream you purchased with your hard-earned credits.

To get back to the original question, let us consider what exactly 128 credits entails. nat's lovely Carried Away wallpaper, which is currently highlighted, cost me 0.2 credits to download, and this nice (and extremely high-resolution) My-HiME scan, cost me 1.8 credits to download. Simply-stated, 128 credits is quite a lot of credits! You can definitely purchase quite a lot of ice cream with that many credits in your wallet.

If you have enough credits such that you can't even see how many you have, I really see no reason why you really need to know how many credits you have left. Sure, you may want to know, but honestly, you're certainly not going to use it all up soon (unless you voraciously devour gallery items for breakfast, lunch, and dinner). When you hit 128 credits, you'll know that you should keep an eye on your expenditures, but even so, you're in no immediate danger.

Besides, I think hiding the figure helps to reduce any incentive for members to hoard credits. Credits are, after all, meant to be spent, and if you have at least 128 credits, then by all means, eat more ice cream!

your methodology and methaphor made me hungry lol
I agree as well. However, the thing is that most people do feel insecure when their money is not presented to them, hence why the complaints. There are some like me who use only credit cards, and I would be ok, whether or not the credit is showing, although it would have been better that I can see them.
But anyway, it doesn't really matter.
Hoarding of credits is a personal preference, some people just like to see their numbers go up, i guess this sort of curbs it but would have made them sadly, more paranoid maybe.

As for Anjhurin's question, indeed, worthy of pondering, hopefully it will, but I think it seems logical not to have that, if you cannot write all in one post, better off you just write them down beforehand and post them as a complete sentence.

Which also puts up the question, does editing posts to become longer adds credits too?

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Spystreak

Retired Moderator

Spystreak

The Grim Reaper

Quote by AnjhurinOkay i've just got a little question : how will the system combine one post (like the one i'm doing right now), and an update i might later add thanks to the merge function ?
Say that my first post is under the 50 characters limit, then i should lose some credits. But then i want to add something (a meaningfull sentence of course :) ), and it exceeds that limits, therefore earning me (maybe) credits.
Will the 2 posts be considered separately, therefore making me loose credits both times, or together, earning me credits? Or even maybe the loosing of credits from the first post will be nullified by the winning of credits after the merge !

It's not really a vital question though !

Well according to the formula being used to tab credits I would assume that you'd be rewarded with credits for the additional text you would be addining. Since the system would have to update the post it would have to register that either you deleted part of your post or added to it and then institute a credit change accordingly. I'm not positive on that that's just what I think will happen.

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chingetscook

chingetscook

Net Slacker

The hidden credits issue still presents one problem not related to insecurity in not being able to see how much money you have. It also denies you from seeing any feedback on your actions in the site either negative of positive. Since credits are the only form of feedback you can get from most actions on the site, once they are hidden you can no longer tell if your actions are correct or appreciated.

When I take some action on this site that can be called "contributing" to the community, I would prefer to know if that action earned me anything, and when my credit value is hidden I can no longer tell what is useful and what is not... yet someone who contributes far less then I do, or spends far more then I do can tell if they are being useful.

MT Credits are Money, as real as money gets. No matter what the staff wants it to be, as long as credits are used to buy things on MT, and credits are earned by contributing to the site, credits will remain money. Hiding the credit value a user has is hiding the accountability of credits, the system, the moderators, and the administrators. For all we know, there could be a cap, you can not have more then 150 credits, and since the value is hidden we would never know. Sure, the staff can assure us over and over again that there is no cap on how many credits you can have, but the staff's word is absolutely no match for the accountability of a visible number. I can trust the staff will deal with issues on the site, and help keep the community working properly, but when it comes to my own money I can not and will not trust the staff, it is like leaving my credit card information in the hands of a complete stranger.

In other words: I want to know what my credit balance is because nobody and nothing will make me trust the MT staff with it.

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Quote by BotFreya

Quote by missy1066As many people have said before, credits are like money, I think we should be allowed to see how much we actually do have rather than only being shown the amount if it gets lower than 128...

As was clear from some of the comments on the recent free download quota discussion thread, many members have gotten into the habit of considering the free download quota as a literal download quota rather than a freebie.

Regardless of how much you buy, as a little gift, the parlor management puts a juicy red cherry on the top of your ice cream. That cherry is like the download quota. The staff tosses it in for free as a gift to members, but it definitely is not the main event; the real substance of your delectable dessert is the ice cream you purchased with your hard-earned credits.

If you have enough credits such that you can't even see how many you have, I really see no reason why you really need to know how many credits you have left. Sure, you may want to know, but honestly, you're certainly not going to use it all up soon (unless you voraciously devour gallery items for breakfast, lunch, and dinner). When you hit 128 credits, you'll know that you should keep an eye on your expenditures, but even so, you're in no immediate danger.

Besides, I think hiding the figure helps to reduce any incentive for members to hoard credits. Credits are, after all, meant to be spent, and if you have at least 128 credits, then by all means, eat more ice cream!

I appreciate that we are given a free download quota of five credits every day, I'm not complaining about this as I think it is particularly nice for those people that for various reasons are unable to earn enough credits to download some of the wonderful scans and wallpapers available here, and I do not see this as being the "main event" by a long shot. I am the type of person that believes that if you purchase something with credits (or whatever) you have earned, you are inclined to value it more than something that is just given to you on a platter so to speak because you had to work in order to get the necessary credits... personally I have never regarded the free download quota as a right... I used mine mainly in order to blow up any gallery items I wanted to comment on, I don't believe you can give a really fair critique of somebody's work by looking at the little picture that we are shown because you can't see the finer details in it... even though I only blow these pictures up so that I can comment fairly upon another member's work, I am still charged credits regardless of whether or not I keep the picture, you're not concerned about what I do with that picture once I've blown it up with regards to saving it or not, it is entirely up to me to begin with whether I want to blow this picture up or not, if we want to see a bigger picture, we have to pay credits which is fine... I think it's very nice that you to give everybody five credits free in order to do things like this because not everybody has the time to post, or read previous posts that have been made before them in their entirety... it's especially nice for people who are new to this community etc

The point is, as you have stated yourself, "the real substance of your delectable dessert is the ice cream you purchased with your hard earned credits" is that it shouldn't matter how many credits a member has, be it high or low, the point is, I really do think each individual member has a right to see how much they actually have. From my point of view it doesn't really matter what an individual member decides to do with their credits, whether they sit on them or go on a spending spree... it doesn't matter if they have more credits than the Bank of England has money... the point is, I really don't think we should be kept in the dark with regards to how much we have actually earned... you may think that "hiding the figure helps to reduce any incentive for members to hoard credits" but does it really matter if they do? What is the point in doing this? Who is actually the beneficiary if they do this? It just means that they lose out on all the lovely things that Minitokyo has to offer... if you're like me and you don't download a great deal in the first place, then of course you will end up accumulating more credits than you use but seeing as the credits a member earns is only good to them, only worth any value here and they can't transfer or trade them, what does it really matter?

I'm not saying that you should reveal exactly how much you give us for various things, but I think it's wrong to keep people in the dark like this... you want to encourage more participation on the forums and yet you won't let people see how much they have gained back in credits from you... people should be able to enjoy this site for what it is, participate in the forums because they want to, not because they feel they have to earn credits... likewise, people should feel free to write another people's guest books, participate in groups that they've joined because they want to, participation in Minitokyo should for each member be an enjoyable experience... not doing just the things that will earn them credits... participating in Minitokyo should never be a chore for anybody, if it becomes thus then there's obviously something wrong with the whole system...

You yourselves are putting a lot of emphasis on these credits... for one reason or another, you have decided to introduce a credit system, I think it is very wrong to withhold this little bit of information from the member to whom the credits belong to, it is up to each individual member with regards to how they spend it, not those who have created this credit system... I completely agree with what chingetscook had to say in the post above... hiding a member's credit value from them sounds very sinister to me... this is meant to be a friendly community, a place where we should be able to talk about things and have discussions, make friends and just have a good time etc by introducing a credit system if you are more than willing to put a price on downloading things etc, you should be more than willing to show a user how much credit they have... by not doing so, you are taking away information that I think should be readily available to each and every member with regards to their own personal credit level, you are taking away something very valuable by withholding this information from us... it should be our choice, not yours as to what we do with them... you cannot control everything, this is a very restrictive move on your part and reduces accountability as chingetscook has already pointed out...

daos

daos

Dark Angel Of Silence

Interesting, this is quite a good way to reduce bandwith costs for the site. It seems that you guys are rather good at saving the bandwith of Minitokyo. Then again I imagine it must take up a lot of space as it is, what with it growing and all.

missy1066 you put forth a solid argument and I have to agree with you that hiding the credit system makes most users feel restricted and thus, unable to enjoy the full benifits of Minitokyo.

Also, the new system where users will lose credits for any post that is shorter than 50 characters may discourage gallery and forum comments.

I understand that 50 characters is not alot but we must consider that English is not the first language of some users and that they may find difficulty in expressing themselves in this language.

Furthermore, there are people who leave short comments, such as, "Nice work! Thanks for sharing." just to show their appreciation for an art work or scan. Should such users be 'penalised' for expressing their thoughts and making the community a more interactive and friendly place? Personally, I feel that not awarding credits to short posts will be effective enough to discourage spams.

Spystreak

Retired Moderator

Spystreak

The Grim Reaper

Quote by pegasus21missy1066 you put forth a solid argument and I have to agree with you that hiding the credit system makes most users feel restricted and thus, unable to enjoy the full benifits of Minitokyo.

Also, the new system where users will lose credits for any post that is shorter than 50 characters may discourage gallery and forum comments.

I understand that 50 characters is not alot but we must consider that English is not the first language of some users and that they may find difficulty in expressing themselves in this language.

Furthermore, there are people who leave short comments, such as, "Nice work! Thanks for sharing." just to show their appreciation for an art work or scan. Should such users be 'penalised' for expressing their thoughts and making the community a more interactive and friendly place? Personally, I feel that not awarding credits to short posts will be effective enough to discourage spams.

You have a valid point MT is a diverse community that does have members that don't speak english as a native tongue. However many still are able to express what they want to say in a manner that easily conforms to the 50 character rule.

And that type of comment is considered spam. Comments on walls are meant to help the artist improve upon their work. If they continue to get comments like I love it keep up the good work they'll always think there is nothing wrong with their work and continue to produce work of the same caliber. In other words they'll never get to their true potential unless they do so themselves. Having others comment on your work is just a way to spead up the process of improvement since many people are new and upcoming wallers who are still learning the ropes of wall making. Comments like those can still be made granted that more thought is put into the comment on how the artist might improve upon their work.

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fluke

fluke

What once was good enough...

I have a question about about the credit system and since adjustments have been made I think this looked like an appropriate place to put it. If you post a duplicate scan for whatever reason, accident or not, once the scan is removed does any credits you gained DURING it's time on minitokyo, from favorites or comments on it, get taken away because it was a duplicate? I have posted a couple duplicates that I didn't know where here before and I wouldn't be against having that happen if it already doesn't...but I wouldn't know if it happens since I can't see my credits (hint hint) hehe.

I was woundering about this for some time know. I'v been gone and was wounding why my credits were not going up and was being to go crazy. So now that I know that all I have to do is post 50 characters or letters then i'm ok.

chingetscook

chingetscook

Net Slacker

Fluke: I believe you keep whatever credits you get even from an accidental double posting, remember it costs credits to submit something in the first place, so whatever you gain back you keep, even if the submission ends up getting deleted. So don't worry, just check the gallery more carefully before submitting something and you will be fine.

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Sounds great news for the people that either aren't artists or don't have scanners... even if in a way, I feel that forums posts aren't really contributions except if they are explanations or helps.

I think there's quite a flaw with the way one should comment. Non-artist would perhaps have an hard time to make useful comments for the wallmaker to improve... and it also makes me wonder what kind of good comments we can write for scans.

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Anjhurin

Linguistics

Anjhurin

ARIA sanchou

Another stupid question from me : am i wrong in assuming that the 50 characters limit includes the "quote" function ?
Sometimes, i see things like that :

*

Quote by me Okay i've just got a little question : how will the system combine one post (like the one i'm doing right now), and an update i might later add thanks to the merge function ?
Say that my first post is under the 50 characters limit, then i should lose some credits. But then i want to add something (a meaningfull sentence of course :) ), and it exceeds that limits, therefore earning me (maybe) credits.
Will the 2 posts be considered separately, therefore making me loose credits both times, or together, earning me credits? Or even maybe the loosing of credits from the first post will be nullified by the winning of credits after the merge !

It's not really a vital question though !

I totally agree ^_^*

Then well that is what i call contributing ! well i guess there's no way to prevent such abuse anyway. though it's a way to get around loosing credits when commenting scans : you just quote someone and say "i totally agree, that rocks"... and you reach easily the 50 characters limit !

BotFreya

Administrator

BotFreya

Earthly Observer

Quote by AnjhurinAnother stupid question from me : am i wrong in assuming that the 50 characters limit includes the "quote" function ?

There would certainly be a lot of potential for abuse if quotes contributed to the number of credits gained. However, I believe that your question was answered in the announcement itself.

Quote by shinsengumiAlso, including quotations will not increase the amount of credits earned.

Yup!

Anjhurin

Linguistics

Anjhurin

ARIA sanchou

Oh indeed, it seems like i just overlooked that post :)

Thanks for the answer... *cast a suspicious look at botfreya... who are you ?* ;)

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