Alright, if the person right above me said some of this already, sorry, I'm in a rush right now sorta so I've
only skimmed the post right above, i read the others though.
Anyway, I wish I could find my bible to confirm these passages some of you have pointed out. But onward to what I know
offhand.
First, the part about Baal and various other princes and such. Well, alot of them happen to come from Cannanite
religions and cults, a region in which the hebrews inhabited as you may recall, from early on. Baal as well as other
gods, creatures, and demons showed up from time to time in reference because of this link and because the isrealites
knew about these religions from living near people and fighting against people of these faiths, and its also a big topic
of Elija and Elisha as they go about disproving the prophets and magicians of Baal and proving the powers of the God of
Isreal. Baal comes up later as well I believe when Jesus is accused of deriving his powers over demons from Baal.
I would like to point out however that your source for Baal being a prince of hell isn't really that credible. I
havn't heard of the theology that says that, but maybe it is out there somewhere, I don't know, i just
don't neccessarily take popular belief as referenced by answers.com to be much.
As for the no reference to lucifer and satan bit in the bible, and lack of connections and yada yada. Well, although
this may be shocking to some, the Bible is not the entirty of religious works of the Judao-Christian traditions. There
have been many books that never made it in, some for reasons of uncredibility, some for being lost here or there, some
for whatever reason. There also is a rich tradition however that developed at the time and continues to this day on such
theological concepts which derive their base from other sources then the bible, or interprete parts of the bible in one
way or another as seen alongside traditions that are not in it. Its possible that this connection is in there.
However, there are a few places that a Satan-like being shows up. A few have been mentioned, but I don't think the
book of Job has been. In Job, a being refered to as the opposer or something to that effect is seen, and challanges the
faith of Job as what would seem like a bet with God, who speaks highly of how faithful Job is. This is a role that
isn't so uncommon for the earlier Jewish tradition. Satan, as he is interpreted to be (similar tot he way the
serpant is interpreted to be satan and various others in revelations and other books), is seen not neccessarily as the
opposite of God, but as the one that tests the faith of the rightious, to ensure that they are faithful not because it
is convenient and things are going well, but would be faithful even in hard times or the face of opposition. The name is
not all that important, although it does say something to the nature of the being, since Lucifer is generally concidered
the name of Satan before the fall, because he was supposed to be the one who reflected the light of God the best and was
also the highest angel (has someone mentioned that?), and Satan is usually what he is called after the fall. And yes,
the name may have been given from misunderstandings of translations, which is why its usually preferable to get
translations directly from the original language and a credible manuscript if you can't read Hebrew and Greek, but
it does fit with other ideas, which may have basis or may not, but which are not that important other than being an
interesting concept which can be used to add to other more important aspects of the mythology and the religious
tradition.
As for another reference, isn't there supposed to be some reference to that end of Satan or Lucifer in Revelations?
I'm not sure, and I don't mean the beast which is talked about so much.
merged: 08-10-2006 ~ 09:47am
Oh, a few things I forgot to mention. Lilith may have come from some old tradition or religion, I'm not sure, but
an explination I've heard was that she developed from Jewish Rabbis (as I think someone mentioned her comming from)
as they were trying to figure out where the woman originally created WITH Adam came from, since there are two creation
accounts, one with man and woman being created together, the other with Eve created after Adam, and so they were trying
to work this out and came up with a previous woman who was bannished and whatnot. Really, if thats the source, which i
kinda think there may be some other source they found referencing her but I have no knowledge to that effect, its a
rather flawed one in my view. The two creation accounts don't need to agree, since, obviously, they don't. So
in the first creation account (which interestingly enough was written alot later then the second) when God creats man
and woman at the same time, it doesn't have to be interpreted as Adam and Eve, and if so its just a different
account of them in which they are created at the same time. It doesn't really matter, the two stories have somewhat
different messages, but really implement different styles, stages, and periods of theological thinking between the time
periods and writers.
now as for the old question which seemed to come up "Why did God creat Lucifer if he knew he would be evil".
Well I mentioned before some believed him to act as a tester for God, which was a valuable role. But aside from that,
God loves all, and still loved Lucifer even knowing he would be evil. As well as he loves all His creation and His
people, even if they are sinners and wicked, which is why He gives them a chance to live and come to know Him, even if
he does know what will happen. There is also though an understanding of this which goes along with the fall story, job,
and many other stories of prophets and even is incorporated into Gospels very strongly, the idea that we needed to fall
from God, and needed sin, in order to grow closer to God and know His love and mercy. After all, how would we know His
forgiveness if we never had need of it? And, as several poets have said, you can't tell one thing without its
opposite. And really, as in many relationships between people, a strong problem between the two CAN lead to a
strengthening and deepening of the relationship when it is finally mended and resolved, or, on a different instance,
expirencing a great devestation and troubles with someone also helps to streagthen and deepen a relationship, be it
friend, lover, or whatever.
So, thats your various little bits from me for now.
merged: 08-10-2006 ~ 09:53am
Alright, I couldn't resist adding this last bit. Since a few mentioned the King of Babilon being refered to as the
mourning star (or star before dawn i think someone said but thats essentially the same thing I'm thinking, maybe
you see that differently), its interesting to note that Mary (the virgin, or mother of God, so you know who i'm
talking about) is also called the Morning Star for various reasons of her role in proceeding ind bringing the Son (or
Sun, refering both to Jesus but for analogy sake).
