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New Law against "Manga, Anime, Game Expression"

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bj0rn

bj0rn

Apostle Of Fate

Got it off another site...

This sort of things kinna piss me off. Japanese National Police Agency's New Law against "Manga, Anime, Game Expression"

Today, I got an email from a Japanese creator, letting us know about the new law currently being discussed to be applied by Japanese National Police Agency. This is a law to restrict expression of Manga, Anime, Game, that are:

# Image that show sexual expression of characters that appears to be under 18.
(Ex: The character does not have under hair, or character appears to be an under 18 school age child.)

# Image that show characters appears or seems to be under age, that are engaging in sexual act wheather or not if genital part is censored.

My personal thoughts after reading it...

First of all, I don't really hate lolicon art cause i mean, it IS artwork and you can always potray another image (E.g: A character who is matured in character but looks loli). Then again... I am firmly against this form of censorship.

Child porn are bad for kids I must say but does this have to link with drawings? Its true to say that pedophiles may like to view lolicon material, but that's not what turned them into pedophiles in the first place. They are pedophiles because they are mentally that way and not because of some drawing.

What I really think...

Correlation does NOT equal causation

Some examples to show what is Correlation and Causation for those who don't know.

Phenomenon A: The sun rises.
Phenomenon B: The sky turns bright.

A and B always happen together. This is correlation.
A causes B to happen. This is causation.

Now let's say someone is coming home from somewhere when the sun sets.

Phenomenon A: The sun sets.
Phenomenon B: That person reaches home.

A and B always happen together. This is correlation.
But A does not cause B to happen. There is no cause and effect. We can always go home in the day or rather, anytime we want!

Another example:

Millions of people watch TV. Some of them are serial killers.

Millions of people eats 3 meals a day. Some of them are serial killers.

Millions of people sleep or rather everyone does. Some of them are serial killers.

Just because serial killers play watch TV, eat and sleep doesn't make any of those things the cause of their violent nature.

Similarly, just because pedophiles read loli materials doesn't mean that loli materials turns normal people into child molesters. It may seem very logical to conclude that a person who enjoys loli material will naturally turn into a pedophile, but there is simply NOTHING to support that hypothesis AT ALL.

Censorship does not solve anything. Pedophiles will still be pedophiles. Violent criminals will still be violent criminals.

To me I think there is a very HUGE DISTINCTION between child porn and loli porn. In child porn, children are being harmed by the act itself. In loli porn, no one is harm. Essentially to punish someone for viewing loli porn is the same as thought crime. I think of killing certain people all the time. I just don't do it. Its a very HUGE DIFFERENCE.

Hating loli porn on a personal level is one thing, trying to censor it is another. If someone made it illegal just because majority hates it then most people shun homosexuality. Is it therefore okay to persecute homosexuals and censor any form of entertainment with homosexual influences just in case they become a bad influence to someone?

BUT! I do support age-based restriction because I think a child who's not yet developed can be easily influenced by it. But I can't see why these kind of entertainment can turn everyone who sees it into pedophiles.

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Devildude

Devildude

- Alstroemeria Records -

essentially your argument is valid, however, you also contradict with certain morals, for example what you portrayed serial killers with this comparison, what you used to support is definite necessary or rather normal activity, while enjoying a certain other entertainment is a hobby, an excess to the daily life.

Of course, again, of course, you can argue about how it does not uses real people or any harm caused, but it is also a part of society, which means that well, if people start to distribute this sort of stuff, and using them as a norm, it would have been ok, I mean, if no one is harmed along the way no problem, but if someone does, someone is to be blamed, prime suspects are as you guessed, people who like this sort of stuff.

The same can be applied to anime in general, do you think society today approves of otakus? No, they don't, but we accomodate those that does not portray violence, or perhaps those that distinctify its audiences, loli porn is not one of those.
I certainly do not think so.
I may be a hard core anime fan, but I certainly find loli porn distasteful, however much of an art or simply another form of art as it may be, it does not as I mentioned, distinctify its audiences, adults should not watch this sort of stuff, I mean, it is like nuturing some forbidden thing.

Fetishes I can understand, but only if it is practiced on adults, as a means of entertainment, enjoyment, child porn no matter the form, cannot be considered as a fetish. It is a potential to place blame on those who watches these materials, and for the better good in the long run, being conservative have its certain advantages.

Of course, i do not support censorship, and I certainly think it should not be done, especially on adult entertainment, or any other forms, but CP is not one of those.

The same goes for Guro (gore porn, with people being hacked for sex... etc... famous in gurochan, don't ask me why I know, I do because I do)

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Wapy

Wapy

Blueheart's sister

I'm not saying I like those kinds of animes, but I agree with you. whatching maga or anime like that doesn't make you whatever.
And I alse support that aging thig. These animes are not for people like me (younger).
And I don't think this influences somebody, it's just a type of art! But child porn is bad stuff. I thik it should be censored, but just in some way (the anime! the real one should'nt even exist) so kids don't see it.
Well, what I'm trying to say it's to keep anime-like sex for adults, where uit belongs! Please, don't put kids there!

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littlejonny100

Retired Moderator

littlejonny100

Rusty Slave

I'm against hentai lolicon (but cute will always be cute) however I don't think it should be abolished. If anything it can be a good thing as it acts as a distraction for the dirty old perverts. I agree if someones going to be a pedophile, they will be a pedophile however the manner in which they are will change greatly. If we give these people lots of dirty FICITIONAL pictures they might be able to be satisfied, however if that were to be taken away from them what if that means they need to go out to the real world to satisfy their sickly desires with real children?

"Do upon others as they would do upon you......except do it sooner, more often and better! "

DanTheGreat

DanTheGreat

Ju-Ni Ban Tai Taichou

i haven't have anything against this law because i really don't dig lolicon.

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Nicodemus34

Nicodemus34

D347h 1 4m, K!11 Y0u 1 Mu57

eh, stuff is censored all the time. there is nothing we can do to stop this even if the cause of it is unjust. yet picture it this way, us typing in this thread arguing whether this law is good or bad wont help get the law abolished. put it this way (fight me on this one if you want but...) how would it look a group of people were fighting to keep lolicon, under age hentai, from being uncensored? even if its from an artist's point of wiew to keep loli uncensored (or any anime-like material in general), i dont think people are ready to lose their dignity to keep pictures of under-aged females (and males) from being censored.

My opinion, it pisses me the freak off that they censor anime anyway (or even anything else). yet, i dont believe i will fight this one for the sake of these kinds of pictures.

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helmet02

Helmet Rule

i think that lolicon is gross and wrong, but i completely agree that censorship should not be the only solution. censoring the material will not by any means make it inaccessible to a person who really wants to see it they. could just go to a .nl or .eu site rather than .jp/.com and i'm sure they will still find it. so all censorship would do is punish the already limited crowd and who is to say it wont just get worse. for example, in the US, the FCC was created to regulate radio frequencies, now they censor out anything that could be considered questionable unless it is aired on pay-per-view or within a certain time frame. censorship is not my friend so i am completely against this propsed regulation

merged: 05-24-2006 ~ 10:49pm
i think that lolicon is gross and wrong, but i completely agree that censorship should not be the only solution. censoring the material will not by any means make it inaccessible to a person who really wants to see it they. could just go to a .nl or .eu site rather than .jp/.com and i'm sure they will still find it. so all censorship would do is punish the already limited crowd and who is to say it wont just get worse. for example, in the US, the FCC was created to regulate radio frequencies, now they censor out anything that could be considered questionable unless it is aired on pay-per-view or within a certain time frame. censorship is not my friend so i am completely against this propsed regulation

Whatever helmet says is true so believe it or else... nothing happens. so obey foolish mortals!!

Kyoo69

me -> Kyo`

Don't really see a problem here. It's *ONLY DRAWING*, if someone can't seperate it from the real world then something is wrong with that person. I know some people that like loli in anime and I surely wouldn't call them pedophiles in real life, because they certainly aren't after such things. I myself don't have anything against lolicon myself, and no, I'm not a pedophile, I'm a normal person. Following thoughts like that, killing should be absolutely censored in all anime and manga, because it can make a killer and bastard out of you. That's totally bullshit. Whenever it's about killing, raping, loli, gore etc - you'll be just fine if you're a normal person that's aware that this is only ART, DRAWING, FANTASY made for entertainment (meddles with your emotions etc). Ofcourse, I think series with such contents should be for a older audience, because I agree it can have a impact on kids. But that's all about parental control, just like in normal movies. The case is simple for me - censorship or banning things like that is just stupid. More audience restriction so kids won't watch this - ofcourse.

up up and away

beautifuldreamer1289

beautifuldreamer1289

Cosplay Goddess

hon, everybody, no worries! its not POSSIBLE for the government to ban anime/loli/hentai. if it were and if they were plannign on it, they would be planning on banning porn, many tv shows that showcase things like nudity etc, and all that other stuff. its the second amendment in the constitution (or 3rd? i cant remember lol) that censorship is not allowed, unless it is violating anothers rights and privelages. so, there ya go. no need to worry guys! ^_^

merged: 05-26-2006 ~ 05:30am
o wait i guess i didnt read closely enough, i thot it was talking about in the US... o crap that sucks if theyre gonna do that in Japan, but no one is gonna stand for it, so once again, no worries ^_^

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DNangel-DarkWings

I have to agree with Kyoo69 here. If you can't differentiate between reality and drawings on a piece of paper....you need help. If you want these things away from children then PARENTS MAKE SURE TO KEEP AN EYE ON THEM. ppl who turns out to be serial killers, pedophiles or anyhting else had something happened to them in the past to turn them into what they are today.... for now ill write this for now ill continue on later....if i remember.

it depends or where you are i think.. like if you're in europe where um, porn is almost legal.. then it shouldn't be a problem. i guess it's just an effect of the youth's behavior and the hentai guys in japan that lead to the passing of this Law.. ^^;

sukumei

sukumei

Running A Critiquing Service

once agian new lawas are enforeced that make our lives more and more miserable. I wonder when or if democracy really ever existed. It all seems but a concept to me.

I would like to run a friendly critiquing service for Minitokyo artists. I will try to make my opinions professional and defiantly unbiased although i will speak ideas for the general public. Critiquing service MT thread

personally, i think that those things doesn't affect me much.....
but i'm not a pedophile.....
look..... the reasons japan's goverment is trying to ban it is because of the cases of otaku or pedophiles tat kidnap those little gals or school gals and trying to do the things they watch or read in those lolicon products...... and the cases are increasing and it even worsen........
i heard of a news tat a young gal died while being tied in ropes, striped, raped and being thrown into the drains....... those act are similliar to some caed captor sakura hentai pics on the net......

so, in my opinion,it's wise to ban it (but that possibly won't happen, 10% chance cauz u kno....... sex is legal in japan and it's through out the net.....)

I'm incomplete,
I'm a hybrid,
I'm the demi-god,
I'm ONIGAMI!

bigeejit

bigeejit

Sup?

there's simply way to much of loli in maintstream manga in Japan. its too popular to ban it. would all the lolicon manga owners get arrested then? this is when censorship goes too far. lolicon has such a long history and importance and influence in manga for decades. what made Japan turn to such drastic measures!? it's just soo crazy :angry:, itll be impossible!

ibrahimm

ibrahimm

Kick Ass And Chew Bubblegum

Well, Child porno is a bit xtreme.. Imagine ur child being penetrated by 3 huge cocks...

But the concorship... is just too much...

Orokawa Ototoyo........

IronSerpent

Evanescence...

Quote by ultima-weaponlook..... the reasons japan's goverment is trying to ban it is because of the cases of otaku or pedophiles tat kidnap those little gals or school gals and trying to do the things they watch or read in those lolicon products...... and the cases are increasing and it even worsen........
i heard of a news tat a young gal died while being tied in ropes, striped, raped and being thrown into the drains....... those act are similliar to some caed captor sakura hentai pics on the net......


There is the whole "Correlation does NOT equal causation" issue. Movies and TV shows also show people being murdered, raped, beaten and otherwise harmed in some way, shape or form. Does this mean that TV is what is causing all of this? Very rarely.

If there is any correlation at all, it is that this stuff is drawn because people like it, /not/ that people like it because it is drawn.


Anyway, I'm in no way a fan for loli, but I do not believe in censorship. I feel that it leads to a naive and uneducated society where people are more easily harmed, both mentally and physically. Despite this, as several people have mentioned, I do doubt the law will succeed, considering that it is such a popular fetish in Japan.

Calling a sword by a pretty name is no more than adding perfume to poison.

Censorship in any form kill the freedom of thought and individuality. It's unfortuante that the pedophile/ pornograhper is probably more educated than the average person in some aspects of the laws. Then there is the big business of porn/ other pecadillos. No matter how much censorship you impose on the masses, someone will always find a way to circumvent (go around) the law. Then there is the curiosity of the individuality who may/may not resist the lure of the nature of sex.

Duuz

Duuz

Master of Disaster

I don't like cencorship any more than any one else, but I fail to see how the elimination of lolicon is going to be a bad thing on the world as a whole.

In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same.

Inuyasha-FAN

Inuyasha-FAN

I'm back

So many times I have heard of these "laws" But none of them get through Congress. It might seem bad, but trust me, it won't happen. This thing against children under 18. wow. That isnt True. Most animes/Manga's dont have those kinds of bad things.

I'm not really into this manga business too too much, but censorship i guess has its moments where it is wanted... but i don't believe it is necessary. and i'm assuming majority of anime/manga/games (anime/manga related) aren't going to have anything like this anyways... but apparently stuff like salor moon had nudity... (i heard this from a friend i didn't watch salormoon other then the censored version and only 1 season... and mind you i was YOUNG... a kid/baby... whats on tv = good moment... i'm emberessed about it so don't reply to this part lol ;p) anyways. the onyl type i know would have stuff that would go against that is echhi versions anime/manga, something close i guess would be 13-16+ manga/anime... although 13+ is minor and 16+ is an expodensial difference... and hentai (which is 18+) and that hentai is going to deep end of porno stuff which isn't illegal [i think] and ecchi is just mature content for older youth [this is like the disclaimer that tv channels place before showing] and all mangas i've read are always rated [G,13+,14+,16+,18+, stuff like that] so ppl know what they are buying. so it probablly isn't going to offend anyone if they know it might have something.

so there are warnings in place anyways, so the need for censorship i believe isn't necessary, but... of course it is if u are intending younger ppl to read/watch... in which case you wouldn't want to go in such detail.

besides i think censorship is crap in this case b/c ppl will still do it anyways.

Quote by DanTheGreati haven't have anything against this law because i really don't dig lolicon.

That view is both extremely self-centred and very short-sighted. Firstly, why is it only your rights which matter? And secondly, if you won't stand up for the rights of others, are they likely to stand up for your rights when they become threatened?

The first post makes an interesting arguement about causality vs. correlation.

Pity their arguement ignores something of vital importance.
The pictures that are the target of this law are pictures that depict minors in graphic sexual acts. Real pictures of this nature are already illegal.
There IS a causality link between people who look at and enjoy pedophillic pornography, and those who go on to act on the fantasies that such images espouse.
Lolicon is merely an ink and paint version of images that would otherwise be illegal already.

Where I work, we sell a snuff that contains no tobacco. We can not sell it to minors, however, because the idea is that this product is for people trying to quit snuff, not for minors to use it as a jumping on point for tobacco.

Banning lolicon would work on a similar principle. We don't want people fantasizing about having sex with children. To that end, we have made real images of such acts against the law. Why should fantasy images be legal? They encourage an ideology that we wish to discourage in the first place.

cloud811

cloud811

Keitaro Sohma

w/e this law is stupied.... japan's crime rate is the lowest in the world for technologicly advance country. less then 25 shooting cases per year and the lowest crime rate in the world, come on! So whats the problem? i say u kill this stupied law and just leave things alone. Everything is working out fine, and i dont see lil girls getting raped so why not just leave things alone and not piss off hundrends of people in the country.

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