Do you honestly think that it is God doing for our suffering? Human create their own heaven and hell in their minds. If one must complain about their suffering, you should complain to yourself. For we have free will and as such we can chain ourself to the cycle of pleasure and pain forever. But we are equally free to walk away and never suffer again.
Are you hoping that our sufferings will end?
- Yup! I'm hoping that these will end. :)
- 22 votes
- I'm not sure, maybe... :\
- 9 votes
- No!! There is no hope in this world!!! -_-
- 20 votes
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When Darkness Falls, All is quiet in the Mist of the Night.
- Jun 28, 2006
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i think that..........
we are being created to suffer..........
i'm sorry if i say some thing wrong- Jun 29, 2006
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RubyDrg0n
Wanna-be-Drg0n
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i havent really read all the post in this thread because i saw the flaw of thought even at the very beginning.....
For all the Christians, Fanatics, Atheist, Anti-Christ, religious spectators, nothing-better-to-do-spectators(like me) in this thread....
please reconsider the question put upon you.
DO WE KNOW GOD?
so far it is always the same, people make the same mistake, even though the bible says that human are made from the image of god...
Why do we view god supposingly a being of infinite possibility with all those weird contradictions and fanatical supporters as well as countless counterparts and sub-parts HAVE HUMAN ATTRIBUTES?from all i have seen, you guys juz like to assume that GOD have human emotion and live like a human and have human views from all perspectives...
How do you know how does GOD thinks for goodness sake.... we are different being with different needs, how are you to understand god for all what he have done.... human views don't work on him nor does our logic....so quit blabblering about why he didnt do this or do this... and quit making assumption about why he did this or did that... or stop blaming it on Satan or some evil being... as we dunno... it doesn't supposingly work in our logic or in any sense for our survival...
tell you guys wat.... is it evil to kill someone for survival? knowingly that if i don't kill him he will kill me or someone important to us?
everything is based on gain and lose and nothing of good and evil.... we only use good and evil to tell wat is gain and wat is lost or a measure of gain or lost...
Suffering is easy to end.... juz end your existance.... after you cease to exist, you wont feel any suffering nor will it matter to you... but do you really want that? It doesn't really matter to me but since i am living, i want to live the best out of it as it is something i can do for consistancy....
So why worry about suffering? and why knowing whether god is omnipotent or watsoever is important?... look at the present ppl.... use wat you have to live to the fullest aka content....
you know wat... i guess ppl who dwell on this theorolgy has either too much time and is confuse about their purpose of existance or religion, they need to prove everyone wrong so that they can be right. especially christian ppl, they can't admit that they dun really know whether the current bible maybe flawed in interpretation and that they haven't mastered the concept of Christianity and how to live a better life through it and that there are possibilities for any party or any statement or anything regarding their religion to be wrong....
20 cents...challenges will be politely and sarcatiscally accepted with another long post
- Jun 29, 2006
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Well, how marvelously convenient that we can't understand god. A typhoon kills thousands? God must have had a reason. This logic is extremely dangerous, as it leads for example to medical neglect, as it's god's will that we are sick but we just don't understand why; therefore, no treatment, because it's god's will.
We interrogate ourselves on god's existence (or more logically nonexistence) because we enjoy it. It contents us to confront our realities with other realities; whereas it obviously contents you to not question yourself and the reality around you. That's fine for you, and this is fine for us. This is a debate, so if you're saying "why bother to debate", I suggest you leave this thread and go on with your oblivious life.
You accept all religions as potentially flawed; now, if you want to defend your position in keeping with the subject of the thread, by all means, argue a bit. Or else, everyone will reject your view as groundless and your opinion will be dismissed.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis, Litterature Nobel Prize winner.
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I wonder if we have the right to call God flawed when the flaws within ourselves are more apparent. Who are we to call God flawed by our standards?
All humans have a tendency to be evil. Why ask why we suffer? Don't we ourselves cause suffering? The only way the suffering of mankind can cease is if mankind doesn't exist.
With our limited knowledge, we can only comprehend the future that is within our lifetimes. If you so desire, you can live all of life without a purpose. To distract yourself with the things of the world and die an oblivious death. Actually what death you die isn't important anyway, if you are so satisfied with the answer that life has no meaning.
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- Jun 29, 2006
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you have to understand that life is like Sim City to god. He doesnt get down and personal with each of us. He doenst come down and see if were suffering. He cares about population and economic increases, building some new districts, and protecting us from hurricanes and UFO's. Its simply business to him. Now if we were all suffering and we were making abandoned buildings, then he'd try and make us happy with parks and museums!
- Jun 30, 2006
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RubyDrg0n
Wanna-be-Drg0n
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tobiast88:
ok... i get your point...but this is supposingly to come after... i need that post to reach here.... or else it wont be fun :P
now i wanna make sure that i got this right...
so we know god through human behaviour..... so how does it works?
1. possibly god IS like us.... so that makes things so easy... and killing us off is juz his random tantrum made into play2. if so... the bible is something that he put into play so that he can defend his standing that he is always right as all human like to do.
3. then if god is like human, then he would be very lonely wont he, so he should be creating a partner or a mate , so we got more than one god, and therefore there exist so many in the Christian bible(god as in the holy spirit, god, Jesus) or demigods(Satan, angels, devils) so he can play
4. also to make things fun he can just create suffering for us because it will be like a drama... we love dramas don't we?
also consider the possibility of that god is not really of the highest rank, he is juz some demigod who plays around with us and that the real god is at another place not caring about it as long as his nature stay within the flow or something....
Quote by Persocom01I wonder if we have the right to call God flawed when the flaws within ourselves are more apparent. Who are we to call God flawed by our standards?
All humans have a tendency to be evil. Why ask why we suffer? Don't we ourselves cause suffering? The only way the suffering of mankind can cease is if mankind doesn't exist.
With our limited knowledge, we can only comprehend the future that is within our lifetimes. If you so desire, you can live all of life without a purpose. To distract yourself with the things of the world and die an oblivious death. Actually what death you die isn't important anyway, if you are so satisfied with the answer that life has no meaning.
ok... i admit... u are fun to go agaisnt, especially to replace kellyo... whever he is in this forum.... anyway...
we ourselves causes suffering? not really, in sense that we do live different life, not all of us have a chance at all(as you said in your post in my thread) as life is unfair.... think about those who have to live in the era of wars...it is kill or be killed... how many choice do they have?.... promises of heaven is not much as we cant confirm it....
and yes... we do cause our suffering, most ppl do by being stupid.... proving their incapability to survive but also causing other ppl suffering in the same time...
But still i do agree that if god add suffering into the plans of the world... he did right, it serves so good as a balance, to keep ppl from being stupid and making life interesting in accordance to wat we think and how the world works....
- Jun 30, 2006
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i don't think God makes us suffer. it's humans who make themselves suffer. they could have walked the way God had paved for them....but for the sake of their desires they turned away and looked for another path.....the path to hell. to put it simply, i think that's humans' desire that push us into raging flames, is that the work of the Devil ? but not to desire means death....to live without dreams might help us lead a peaceful but also unlively life.
- Jul 01, 2006
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So, because I don't please a hypothetical being, bad things will happen to me... I don't believe in your narrow-minded little system of values, get that? Until whatever is up there gets its act together and actually starts caring about the world, and until it shows itself to me, I will not believe in anything as mind-blowingly foolish as "Doing things that are not pleasing to God will make you suffer & have a bad effect to you" Isn't God supposed to be love? No wait. This is the God that recommends genocide! Have you even read the book you love to quote? Get this:
"Serial genocide committed by Joshua & sanctioned by God who sends killer hail to help
Joshua 10:10-41 " � slew them with a great slaughter at Gibeon, � and smote them to Azekah, and unto Makkedah. � the Lord cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword. � when the Lord delivered up the Amorites � until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. � when Joshua and the children of Israel had made an end of slaying them with a very great slaughter, till they were consumed, that the rest which remained of them entered into fenced cities. � And that day Joshua took Makkedah, and smote it with the edge of the sword, � and all the souls that were therein; he let none remain: � Then Joshua � fought against Libnah: � and he smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein; he let none remain in it; � And Joshua passed from Libnah, � unto Lachish, and encamped against it, and fought against it: � and smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein, according to all that he had done to Libnah. Then Horam king of Gezer came up to help Lachish; and Joshua smote him and his people, until he had left him none remaining. .. .Joshua passed unto Eglon, � and fought against it:.And they took it on that day, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein he utterly destroyed that day, � And Joshua went up from Eglon, � And they took it, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and the king thereof, and all the cities thereof, and all the souls that were therein; he left none remaining, according to all that he had done to Eglon; but destroyed it utterly, and all the souls that were therein..And Joshua returned � to Debir; and fought against it: � and they smote them with the edge of the sword, and utterly destroyed all the souls that were therein; he left none remaining: � Joshua smote all the country of the hills, and of the south, and of the vale, and of the springs, and all their kings: he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, � Joshua smote them from Kadeshbarnea even unto Gaza, and all the country of Goshen, even unto Gibeon."Or this:
"Exodus 20:5 & Deuteronomy 5:9 " � I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;"
alright tobiast,
ok then, say your right. where are you now? you basically have no reason to live other than to please yourself. morals mean nothing now, they're all from an "hypothethical being". So now your life means nothing but to live selfishly, all you have to hold on to is your short, meaningless, and selfish life. and i dont say that to insult, i say that because if God doesnt exist, everyones lives will be exactly that. short because when you die you die forever, meaningless because theres no point... after death, its death, and selfish because whats the point of living for others? with no God you can do what you want, when you want and it all wont matter cause your going to die and just stay dead.And you know what, tobiast you're worse than the terrorists extemists from iran, terrorists only kill the body, but you kill the soul because they won't be able to get to heaven if they believe the lies that you tell. the lies that you tell for the sake of you trying to prove that your right. which by the way, you dont have any real evidence for.
one more thing, the only reason you find the bible as a "gory bedtime story" is because all you look for are the blood and gore take only that part out and advertise it. you should try reading the ENTIRE thing and figure out the reasons behind the gore, because the bible doesnt work if you take parts out and ignore the rest, try to broaden your mind a little friend, before its too late.
- Jul 01, 2006
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Typical theist argument, that's been refuted n times. Oh, well.
Not believing in god does NOT automatically mean to have no morals. In fact, my moral actions have purer motives than you, because as you do good actions to get into heaven, I do good actions for the sake of it.I "kill souls"? Wow. Awesome. I kill hypothetical appendages that have no physical proof of existence. How do you prove this? You are killing my gnaester with your stupidity - you can't see or feel it, but it's there, this old book told me so!
And I have read the entire bible. I found it completely worthless. I should "broaden my mind"? You are the ones who held women in contempt for hundreds of years, the ones who refuse homosexuality, and need I go on? I "take out parts of the bible and ignore the rest"? Do you obey every rule in the bible, such as the much discussed before "do not wear two kinds of cloth at the same time" Lev 19:19? Because if you don't, you should be stoned. So, do you excise this particular part or not? And there are many other examples. "Before it's too late"? Too late for what? Oh, right, I'm going to hell. An inconcevable period of time in an inconceivable place with inconceivable beings is - guess what - inconceivable.
You go right on believing your idiocies, and go on arguing for a stupid cause with invalid arguments like your holy-loly book. Oh, and next time, please learn how to type correctly; it kind hurts your cause when you ignore the rules of language as well as other's proofs and previous posts. Dismissed.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis, Litterature Nobel Prize winner.
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without pain, one will never truly appreciate beauty.
- Jul 01, 2006
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So, I can't eat candy without being stabbed to appreciate it?
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis, Litterature Nobel Prize winner.
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God brings suffering to those He loves. He wants us to see, how imperfect we are. He wants to test us whether we remember HIM during our trouble or forgetting HIM when we're are so carefree. And by suffering you will appreciate everything around you. Do not take life for granted.
Lastly, don't blame God for our sufferring.
p/s: I'm sorry if my opinion hurts anyone here. It's just my thinking.
- Jul 01, 2006
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So, he COULD take away all our suffering, but doesn't because it's a test. How marvelously convenient. Testing us why? To prove to himself that people follow his stupid doctrine? How does that fit in with the omnibenevolence and general perfection of god? Anyway, if god has so many insecurity issues, why doesn't he just take away our suffering, proving to everyone on the planet that he's the best?
And I repeat, I can appreciate the niceness of being alive without being tortured every other minute to remind me.
Lastly, "don't blame God for our sufferring"? You support the notion that god created everything; including suffering. Tell me why I shouldn't blame him for his particularly dumb creation?
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis, Litterature Nobel Prize winner.
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http://mt-gay-straight-club.minitokyo.net/ ---> for tolerant people- Jul 01, 2006
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Quote by HanazakiGod brings suffering to those He loves. He wants us to see, how imperfect we are. He wants to test us whether we remember HIM during our trouble or forgetting HIM when we're are so carefree. And by suffering you will appreciate everything around you. Do not take life for granted.
Lastly, don't blame God for our sufferring.
p/s: I'm sorry if my opinion hurts anyone here. It's just my thinking.
Why a all powerful God want to test us mere mortals?
Also I have trouble understand why would you bring suffering to the ones you love?
God must have issues if he can't live without us remembering him every second of our life.
Lastly, you do not need suffering to appreciate what is around you. Anyone could live a peaceful life without suffering and appreciate it.
Like me for instance.p/s: your opinion does not hurt me, on contrary it allows me see different points view.
When Darkness Falls, All is quiet in the Mist of the Night.
- Jul 01, 2006
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RubyDrg0n
Wanna-be-Drg0n
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agreed... by far... according to wat is written, if god existed.....
he is playing us on, using us as a tool for leisure( of course... applying human nature to god), do not really care about us, and also made us run meaninglessly through his game....however, we can also accept the fact that god doesn't exist and that the world is how it is, but without noone to blame for the inconviniece we have while living....
*note... this has really become something like a need to blame thing and believe that the blamed one will set things right sorta thing....for Christians.....
from above statement, saying that, if god really exist, we would really blame him on the suffering he "created"
while Christians will be hoping that he make things right which he may or may not...
also, by not believing in god or dun care about it, we set our ground firmly that we dun need this entity to set things right and will face them ourselves...this set out my view about you ppl's standings....
validity dependable on each individuals
- Jul 01, 2006
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shugo000
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Quote by alexjohnc3Problem of Evil is basically:
1. God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent.
2. There is suffering in the world.
3. If God exist there would be no suffering because He would know we're suffering since He is omnipotent, He could stop the suffering since He is omnipotent, and he would try to keep anyone from suffering because He is omnibenevolent.
4. Because there is suffering and God has qualities that would force him to stop suffering, God doesn't exist.All this proves is that God, if he exists, does not have omnipotency, omniscience, and/or omnibenevolence.
God IS omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent. Everyone suffers, but it is our fault. God gave us free will and we messed up. What satisfaction would there be in a creation that is brainwashed to acknowledge and worship you, none. He gave us free will, because without it there would be no satisfaction or even "true love," just a meaningless existence.
Suffering is trial for all humans on this plane of existence, God wants our faith and true love even through suffering. A man who goes through suffering yet still believes and trust in God shows true faith and love for God, that is what God wants.
In fact, who are we to complain at all. would you have rather never been born at all? He gave us all a life and everything we have, and He has every right to take it away.
Suffering also makes Gods promises of the future heaven for us even more magnificent. If we never had suffering before, heaven wouldn't seem half as appealing as it does to the human mind. And on the opposite effect how terrible hell would be.
(\_/)
(o.O)
(> <) I support the bunny for world domination
- Jul 21, 2006
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