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I remind you that the US is spending billions of dolars in that war... instead of sign Kyoto and research for new and clean technologies to sustitute oil.
BTW i use the bus, i dont need a car... thanks God i live near my job and i like to walk, that way i make excercise.
The american way of life, that is what i call ignorance...
Quote by KeiichiI remind you that the US is spending billions of dolars in that war... instead of sign Kyoto and research for new and clean technologies to sustitute oil.
The US spending billions in Iraq? absolutly correct. However not only that this is spent on fighting the insurgency, this is also used on building the Iraqi infrastructure so that the Iraqis can function and succeed on thier own. Also keep in mind that by researching for better and clean technologies isn't the responsiblity of one chosen nation, but by all countries. Get the facts and priorities straight.
Quote by KeiichiBTW i use the bus, i dont need a car... thanks God i live near my job and i like to walk, that way i make excercise.
You also use the computer, which has just about enough oil in it to put into that bus you ride! Plastics, rubber, nylon and other synthetic materials are products derived from oil! Don't think you are in the clear.....even the shoes you wear has a product in it that was derived from oil.
Quote by KeiichiThe american way of life, that is what i call ignorance...
That is your perogative. Keep in mind some people other than Americans can view your way of life as ignorant, but that is not the point. I guess you try so hard to emmulate us and fail I guess that you have no other choice but to dislike what we do. But if you want to debate a certain topic, be sure you have the facts to back it up, instead of useless banter. All you will do with that is piss other people off, Americans or not.
"In the absence of orders, find something and kill it" - Erwin Rommel
Quote by KeiichiI remind you that the US is spending billions of dolars in that war... instead of sign Kyoto and research for new and clean technologies to sustitute oil.
BTW i use the bus, i dont need a car... thanks God i live near my job and i like to walk, that way i make excercise.
The american way of life, that is what i call ignorance...
Don't you get it? Oil is not only used for cars, it i used all over the world to make thousands of products and lubricate millions of machines. Oil is used to make plastic, and without plastic, you wouldn't have a computer or tv or medicine or hundreds of other products. I asume your from a different country because you becase of the way you are typing english, and let me tell you somthing. Why dont you go live in a country like Iraq or some 3rd world country where the only thing you know is pain and suffering. Maybe then you will understand why we do these things. Hell, if it wasn't for America, the rest of the world would be in hell. We were the driving force behind victories in World War 2, and other major conflicts. And if it wasn't for us, then you wouldnt be sitting there typing the way you are now. Also, we went into Iraq to get Saddam, who butchered, tortured and murdered millions of innocent Iraqis just like Stalin and Hitler before him. Are you tell me and the rest of our men in Iraq this was a wrong thing to do? The only reason we are still there is because we ran into this insurgency thing. But once the Iraqi police/army gets a move on, then we'll leave. I also recall that we recently killed the top Terrorist man (forget his name) but he ordered hundreds of attacks on US soldiers and civilians. Now that he is gone, our job should be easier.
merged: 06-14-2006 ~ 10:48am
Thanks LigerZSchnider for covering some of my argument points before i had time to post them! Didn't know you had
the sam facts to help back this topic up, thanks!
Hello every1, i'm a Vietnamese, i'm not good at English so i'll make spelling mistake or something like
that, plz forgive me :).
To bobobob: plzz, my country's name is Vietnam, not veitman, and we are Vietnamese, not veitman. And you was right
about "And actually if you look at veitmanese death, it was far greater than america's". But u said that
America save France's ass, and the Vietnam war is a war without purpose, it's not true. America attack us
because our country has a very important location, and...well, we have oil also.
And you said our children and women attacked American army, yes, they did. But when American army dropped bombs, did
women and children die? As a Vietnamese, when our country is being attacked, all my people will fight, don't say
that American army has no female soldier.
BTW: i'm 19, when i was born, the war was over, so don't argue about who win, let be friend, okie, PEACE
^__^
Quote by dangquangHello every1, i'm a Vietnamese, i'm not good at English so i'll make spelling mistake or something like that, plz forgive me :).
To bobobob: plzz, my country's name is Vietnam, not veitman, and we are Vietnamese, not veitman. And you was right about "And actually if you look at veitmanese death, it was far greater than america's". But u said that America save France's ass, and the Vietnam war is a war without purpose, it's not true. America attack us because our country has a very important location, and...well, we have oil also.
And you said our children and women attacked American army, yes, they did. But when American army dropped bombs, did women and children die? As a Vietnamese, when our country is being attacked, all my people will fight, don't say that American army has no female soldier.
BTW: i'm 19, when i was born, the war was over, so don't argue about who win, let be friend, okie, PEACE ^__^
INteresting, but remember that France got their ass kiced before we got involved (does this surprise anyone?). I wouldnt say America got involved in Vietnam because of Oil. It was from a politcal stand point. We wanted to further stop the spread of Communism in Asia, and it was because of Vietnams location that it was important that it stay free. But when the NVA attacked the USS Maddox of the coast of Vietnam, we entered the war (even though congress never offically called a declaration of war). In vietnam we didn't know who was friend and who was foe, and it turned ugly.
The US involvement in the Vietnam War started out as an police action and as an observer when France was getting scalped. How we got into that mess, I don't really know, all I know is that when politicians started playing "Armchair Generals", we got our asses whipped! Like Sunspots said, assaults on civilians occured when soldiers failed to distinguish combants from non-combatants. And like Dangquang said, the results from soldiers killing unarmed civilians was that the Vietnamese people, not just the VCs, rose up against the US forces.
Lessons were learned since then, and that is why the US is trying so hard to prevent the insurgents from making the civilians distrust and attack the soldiers there. Why do you see the insurgents attack and kill Iraqi civilians.... to drive that wedge.
"In the absence of orders, find something and kill it" - Erwin Rommel
Quote by SunSpotsINteresting, but remember that France got their ass kiced before we got involved (does this surprise anyone?). I wouldnt say America got involved in Vietnam because of Oil. It was from a politcal stand point. We wanted to further stop the spread of Communism in Asia, and it was because of Vietnams location that it was important that it stay free. But when the NVA attacked the USS Maddox of the coast of Vietnam, we entered the war (even though congress never offically called a declaration of war). In vietnam we didn't know who was friend and who was foe, and it turned ugly.
i am going to defend vietnam here but there was really no proof that the north vietnamese army luanched any torpedoes at the uss maddox. today historian come to believe that it was some kind of freak explosion on board. but what was important about this event is that it gave the united states the chance to invade vietnam and try to stop communism and true the united states went in without an actual declaration of war from congress. also true that it did get quite ugly with the onslaught of attacks from the north vietnamese army and the south viet cong.
i do apologize to you, SunSpots, if i sound rude but i felt that i needed to correct that.
midnightLOVERS
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Quote by midnightLOVERS
i am going to defend vietnam here but there was really no proof that the north vietnamese army luanched any torpedoes at the uss maddox. today historian come to believe that it was some kind of freak explosion on board. but what was important about this event is that it gave the united states the chance to invade vietnam and try to stop communism and true the united states went in without an actual declaration of war from congress. also true that it did get quite ugly with the onslaught of attacks from the north vietnamese army and the south viet cong.i do apologize to you, SunSpots, if i sound rude but i felt that i needed to correct that.
midnightLOVERS
And you are correct........about the USS Maddox. As for the US to try and stop the spread of communism, yup...... that too. However that wasn't the way the US government at the time presented that to the public. Remember, the US forces were there only as observers when the French was fighting the VC. The accident on the Maddox only fueled US involvement, for there were VC gunboats in the area and inteligence at the time suggested that the VC were capable of launching torpedoes. However, when more troops were deployed into the region, it was only a matter of time until the US and the Republic of Vietnam began to mix it up.
"In the absence of orders, find something and kill it" - Erwin Rommel
Vietnam was a matter of pride of the americans... with that stupidity of stop comunism... its was just a game between the americans and the russians in order to achieve more power.
Vietnam, El Salvador, Cuba, Korea, Nicaragua, Chile, Granada... all these countries suffered wars and dictatorships because of the cold war policy... in the end the US stayed and the URSS disapeared, not because they were the best choice (actually oustside the US, people often mistrust the Americans) but because of the weakness of the soviet system...
Right now the world is different but the reasons behind wars remain equal... Iraq is also a matter of pride for the US goverment, Bush cannot accept that the war is getting tough to handle... Al Zahwari is dead, but there are several Al Qaeda people in Iraq ready to take his place.
The only people that can decide what is going to happen in Iraq is the Iraqui people, not the US military. If they want
the US out of Iraq, the military will have to retreat soon or later... and leave the country in the hands of the leaders
that the Iraquis, not the US goverment, choose. I hope that the Iraq people will choose wisely and keep their proud.
The US( my nation) dose have many better things to do then start wars. ( like stop global warming cough cough)
Shinsen89
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Quote by Shinsengumi89The US( my nation) dose have many better things to do then start wars. ( like stop global warming cough cough)
Shinsen89
we went in to stop a tyrant who butchered millions of innocent civilians, its like saying we should just let people like Hitler and Stalin continue to murder Jews and your own civlians
Besides, the rest of the world isn't doing much to stop global warming either. Maybe if they took action, we would too
Please look at Africa, Darfur and The LRA ( Lords Resitants ARmy) all of this was going on with many more deaths. Yet we choose Iraq a country that has electricity, has some stability over the horrible african slayings. Iran,\, the chinese they all oppres their people yet we do nothing becuse if we fout with them we wouldn't get anthing out of it.
And we threw all jewish citzens who asked for help During WW2 so it had nothing to do with wanting to help other people just ourselves.
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During World War 2, several countris including the UNited States got tied of bringing in Jewish refuges, therefore we (and the other European countries) closed our borders to them.
Also, the reason we don't help africa is because they dont want it. Look what happened in Somalia and Rwanda, the US and UN both tried to stop these things, yet what do we get? Body bags. We cant afford to go to war with china, sine they produce thousands of US products, and have a fairly good army. We are trying to avoid conflict with Iran because of the situation we are in with Iraq, fighting a two front war would be bad. If you dont like the way this country is running things, then i ask you: move somewhere else and stop ranting about it!
The US wouldn't mess with China because everybody knows that China will be a tough oponent and the world probably will go straight to hell in that kind of war.
The US wouldn't mess with North Korea because nobody wants another nuclear disaster in Japan or an attack on Hawaii or California.
The US would't send troops to Africa because nobody cares about Africa, and the last time the US had an active role in an african peace mission, things went really bad (Somalia was something that many americans wants to forget). As long as the corrupt goverments of those countries colaborate with Washington... nobody cares about civil wars, dictatorships or human rights.
The only way to avoid an US invassion to your country is to proof that you have nuclear nukes ready to be used. In that case the US will use diplomacy instead of military force to work things out. Iran knows that really well... North Korea knows that and almost every country willing to challenge Washigton know that nuclear power is the key to negociate.
The only reason of why Iraq and Afghanistan got invaded is because those countries were easy targets for the US forces... otherwise the Bush Administration would had to think twice before attack.
Well the whole freedom thing is foolish because americans are hypocits if we really wanted everyone to be free we woule be fightin China, Iran, Saudi Arabia and other nations, its just propoganda. Freedom right. Thats a joke.
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well yes it is foolish to try to get everyone into a democratic government because not all people want it. saudi arabia btw has a pretty good government right now. and attacking china would be like suicid cause there are so many chinese.
merged: 06-15-2006 ~ 07:50am
Quote by KeiichiI gotta say that i admire the people of Vietnam... dealing with that stupid war for so many years... watching how their women were raped and their children killed and hold on until the US surrender... THE VIETNAMIESE PEOPLE WERE BRAVE PEOPLE!
Right now the iraqui people is suffering the same... and we only care about 3000 men that were paid to be killed (yes people, soldiers are paid to kill or get killed, thats their job) while thousands of iraquis john does are being tortured and killed for the sake of our oil greed!
SHAME ON US, WE FILL OUR CARS WITH BLOOD...
btw id like you to know that the US millitary is not allowed to tourture people. all we can do is sleep deprive them. ^^ well id thought that id inform you of that so you dont make mistakes like that again
Quote by Shinsengumi89Please look at Africa, Darfur and The LRA ( Lords Resitants ARmy) all of this was going on with many more deaths. Yet we choose Iraq a country that has electricity, has some stability over the horrible african slayings. Iran,\, the chinese they all oppres their people yet we do nothing becuse if we fout with them we wouldn't get anthing out of it
Thats quite true, but that is asl due to the fact that there is not one single nation in Africa that currently poses a threat to the security of the US or any of our military allies, therefore no reason to take military action. As for China, its a sit back and wait situation, they made their mistake when they connected with the rest of the world and information began flowing into their country, and thats led to some fairly radical changes over there. I'd like to think (can't say its true one way or the other) they are purposely moving slowly to prevent what happened after the USSR breakup, that plus the fact that power once gained is extremely hard to let go of.
Quote by KeiichiThe US wouldn't mess with North Korea because nobody wants another nuclear disaster in Japan or an attack on Hawaii or California.
Actually its more like we don't want to screw with Chinas backyard. If I was a N. Korean thinking about going up again the US at the nuclear level, I'd be alot more worried about China than the US.
As for our role in the Middle East, yes it is to protect our own interests as well as the interests of our allies. In addition to that, we've done what we've done to every other country we have defeated in war.....We've actively helped them rebuild. Does that erase all of the less than stellar things that have been done by the US or its representatives? No, but it does tend to help those that needed it.
I'll also remind the forum that the US and a couple of its allies may very well be the only reason Iraq still exists. For those of you that do not remember the first Gulf War, there was an incident where Iraq in a boneheaded attempt to gain the support of the Arab world launched missiles at Israel. I can't count how many people I know that basically waited for the world to end at that point (and thank god they were just normal explosives on those missiles). Due to alot of diplomatic talk from the US and allies and some common sense, Israel did not reply to that incident in full force (remember Israel is a nuclear capable nation and umm.. well insanely protective of what they have)
Do not interfere in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
Then i wonder, why Israel can have nuclear weapons and Iran can´t?
picking on the weaks, that's the way in this world.
No.
well, the thing is that although the US is making some of the same mistakes as we did in Vietnam, the difference is that we are not over there for the sole reason of fighing communisum or doing police enforement threw the UN. Instead we are doing what seems the almost opposite, we are just going over there out of bordum. I mean, honestly i for one am happy Saddam is out of power because he was kinda...loony, but in return the problem arises that maybe people don't want to just suddently be democratic without their permisstion. Although most of them would agree what they do not like is how we just decided without asking them.
Sure people just assume we are over there for oil, or we are just doing what Bush Sr. didn't do. But for the most part we are just really doing nothing but trying to entertain ourselfs threw something like war to keep interesting information on the news, peoples enragement to keep people like Bush Jr. seem like a hero and in office and other policitly wrong (heh, what an oxymoron, all politics are wrong!) ideas.
Now, as for Iraq being another Vietnam, sure, it is very close to it in the similar way, but the main difference is the people. The Vietnemese were very smart and clever people (either for or aginst us) where as the Iraqies are not so...intelligent and more prone to idiotic ideas such as burning their main source of income as a nation, or beliving that a bunch of rebelling men with guns makes the US cringe. But what i do belive reminds me of Vietnam the most is how we are once again stuck in the position that someone else will have to end Iraq just as Bush Jr. Started it. Most of us, if not all of us, know that Bush will not be the popular vote this upcoming election (or any for that matter) and the fact that he brought us into Iraq would be the only reason we would want to keep him in office so he can clean up what he started. Unlike Kennedy (who in all fairness was not given a choice to not see the end of the war).
If you need me, just send me a msg, I'll reply ASAP ^_^
Quote by nolove.....this thread attract my eyes.....since i'm vietnamese :\
i didnt know about the War in vietnam when i was born there's peaceful time here i just learn in history. but i know about Iraq, and all though thing that Bush has been doing with them, war, famine, chaos, death...all in the news i hear everyday >__<.
im not sure if it's alike VN before or not, but yeah, US may win this time ^___^, though they'd lost before :\
well yeah im vietnamese too but that war in vietnam sucked. My godfather was the feild translator with the americans and
the Viets on the South. They definately lost because of the Americans... They lost becasue Americans ran away and left
us to die. -_- now saigon is called ho chi minh city..
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Wzwejtes
You're mistaking fanaticism for a lack of intelligence Nak, there's got to be doctors and scientists into it or else OBL would've died from his diabetes ages ago. The two can function at the same time with the afflicted person not knowing they're biased at all!
A fish should swim thrice: in water, in sauce, and in wine.
hello.......I'm new here and by chance I found this topic.
first I'm not that good at english so forgive my mistakes.
secound I would like to thank Keiichi for bringing this up
and for saying all the things you said in those two pages
I completly agree with every single word you said.
now about the topic itself ..... I don't really care If the war in IRAQ is like the war in vietnam or not (
althuogh it is similar in
alot of things and diffirent in other) because we can talk about similarites and diffirences until god knows when
without getting the real point! which is the war in IRAQ is WRONG! and that is
the main similarity between the two wars both were wrong and both were made for the sake of US power and control.....
not for justice and definetly not for freedom!
Quote by bobobob :
btw id like you to know that the US millitary is not allowed to tourture people. all we can do is sleep deprive them. ^^
well id thought that id inform you of that so you dont make mistakes like that again
well then how can US millitary invade a mousqe and kill every one in there while praying ! my father was killed in there
by
the pepole who claim that they are helping us! I saw it all with my own eyes I was shot in the sholder my father was
shot then
one of the souldiers kept kicking him until he died!
all that happend just because we yelled at the souldiers to go back to thier own country befor going to pray none of us
imagined that some of the souldiers will go crazy and kill most of the pepole in the mousqe I still remember how the
american that
killed my father kept kicking him saying that we are nothing but trash!
because of this war I am now without afamily my father and uncle were killed in this war and they were all I had.
I am living in syria now with some pepole who took me in
I am not in IRAQ anymore but I still see the horrours of this war
in my dreams.
I had never liked suddam but that doesn't mean that I wanted this war ... the last thing our country needs is a war
.
I am 14 year old iraqi boy ... and please don't talk about things you don't know... none of you have lived a
war am I right?
you don't know how it's like.
did any of you know that we stayed without electricity and water
for along long time when the americans first had control of the country! did you know that our museums were robbed of
every thing and the american troops did nothing about it!
ofcorse they didn't! after all they had more important things like
taking over the oil ministry and making sure every thing goes
as planned!
Don't ever say that this war is for helping iraqy pepole because it is not. we never asked for help in the first
place.
if US want to fight terrorism they should fight it in there own country first just how many terrorrism attacks happen
every day in US by americans them selves? how can the US save the WORLD from terrorism if they can't stop it in
there own country?
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