Look above, My point exactly. Anyone to say this war is for justice is foolish.
Shinsengumi89
Iraq is a new Vietnam?
- Yes
- 20 votes
- No
- 17 votes
- Perhaps, but the US will win this time
- 4 votes
Only members can vote.
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Quote by salem-iraqhello.......I'm new here and by chance I found this topic.
first I'm not that good at english so forgive my mistakes.
secound I would like to thank Keiichi for bringing this up
and for saying all the things you said in those two pages
I completly agree with every single word you said.
now about the topic itself ..... I don't really care If the war in IRAQ is like the war in vietnam or not ( althuogh it is similar in
alot of things and diffirent in other) because we can talk about similarites and diffirences until god knows when without getting the real point! which is the war in IRAQ is WRONG! and that is
the main similarity between the two wars both were wrong and both were made for the sake of US power and control.....
not for justice and definetly not for freedom!Quote by bobobob :
btw id like you to know that the US millitary is not allowed to tourture people. all we can do is sleep deprive them. ^^ well id thought that id inform you of that so you dont make mistakes like that again
well then how can US millitary invade a mousqe and kill every one in there while praying ! my father was killed in there by
the pepole who claim that they are helping us! I saw it all with my own eyes I was shot in the sholder my father was shot then
one of the souldiers kept kicking him until he died!
all that happend just because we yelled at the souldiers to go back to thier own country befor going to pray none of us imagined that some of the souldiers will go crazy and kill most of the pepole in the mousqe I still remember how the american that
killed my father kept kicking him saying that we are nothing but trash!
because of this war I am now without afamily my father and uncle were killed in this war and they were all I had.
I am living in syria now with some pepole who took me in
I am not in IRAQ anymore but I still see the horrours of this war
in my dreams.
I had never liked suddam but that doesn't mean that I wanted this war ... the last thing our country needs is a war .
I am 14 year old iraqi boy ... and please don't talk about things you don't know... none of you have lived a war am I right?
you don't know how it's like.did any of you know that we stayed without electricity and water
for along long time when the americans first had control of the country! did you know that our museums were robbed of every thing and the american troops did nothing about it!
ofcorse they didn't! after all they had more important things like
taking over the oil ministry and making sure every thing goes
as planned!Don't ever say that this war is for helping iraqy pepole because it is not. we never asked for help in the first place.
if US want to fight terrorism they should fight it in there own country first just how many terrorrism attacks happen every day in US by americans them selves? how can the US save the WORLD from terrorism if they can't stop it in there own country?I m sorry... i m really sorry, my former and stupid president got my country in that stupid coalition to support that criminal war... and almost everybody here was against it because we dont want crimes like the one that kill your father... because war is about killing and suffering, not about liberty and justice.
In the name of the people of my country, we only can now said that we tried to stop that war... our people in the UN was against it, even if the president support it just because he was afraid of the US power. Stories like you are important... stories like that should be in the news... because stories like that can stop the slaughtering of people in that creepy war games that the superpowers of the world like to play.
If I were an american, i think that i should feel embarrased of what the army of my country have done to your people.
Thx God i m not american.
- Jun 15, 2006
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salem-iraq i am really sorry that something like that happened to you. i cant even began fathom the pain and fustration that you are going through. i am terribly sorry but understand that when i do apologize i speak for myself and not for my country. i refuse to speak on be-half of my country because even though they are the one that started this war i cant turn my back on the place and the people i love most; even though i disagree with it completly.
keiichi this is an interesting thread. not to mention a thread that, for once, actually makes me think and draw on past knowledge of what is true and not what i just know from my personally opinion. but i would like to say this. i am an american and i am proud of who i am and of my country. yes, there are things that the american government does that i am not praticularly proud of but there are, also, many achievment that the united states have accomplished that i just can not forget.
midnightLOVERS
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Quote by salem-iraqhello.......I'm new here and by chance I found this topic.
first I'm not that good at english so forgive my mistakes.
secound I would like to thank Keiichi for bringing this up
and for saying all the things you said in those two pages
I completly agree with every single word you said.
now about the topic itself ..... I don't really care If the war in IRAQ is like the war in vietnam or not ( althuogh it is similar in
alot of things and diffirent in other) because we can talk about similarites and diffirences until god knows when without getting the real point! which is the war in IRAQ is WRONG! and that is
the main similarity between the two wars both were wrong and both were made for the sake of US power and control.....
not for justice and definetly not for freedom!Quote by bobobob :
btw id like you to know that the US millitary is not allowed to tourture people. all we can do is sleep deprive them. ^^ well id thought that id inform you of that so you dont make mistakes like that again
well then how can US millitary invade a mousqe and kill every one in there while praying ! my father was killed in there by
the pepole who claim that they are helping us! I saw it all with my own eyes I was shot in the sholder my father was shot then
one of the souldiers kept kicking him until he died!
all that happend just because we yelled at the souldiers to go back to thier own country befor going to pray none of us imagined that some of the souldiers will go crazy and kill most of the pepole in the mousqe I still remember how the american that
killed my father kept kicking him saying that we are nothing but trash!
because of this war I am now without afamily my father and uncle were killed in this war and they were all I had.
I am living in syria now with some pepole who took me in
I am not in IRAQ anymore but I still see the horrours of this war
in my dreams.
I had never liked suddam but that doesn't mean that I wanted this war ... the last thing our country needs is a war .
I am 14 year old iraqi boy ... and please don't talk about things you don't know... none of you have lived a war am I right?
you don't know how it's like.did any of you know that we stayed without electricity and water
for along long time when the americans first had control of the country! did you know that our museums were robbed of every thing and the american troops did nothing about it!
ofcorse they didn't! after all they had more important things like
taking over the oil ministry and making sure every thing goes
as planned!Don't ever say that this war is for helping iraqy pepole because it is not. we never asked for help in the first place.
if US want to fight terrorism they should fight it in there own country first just how many terrorrism attacks happen every day in US by americans them selves? how can the US save the WORLD from terrorism if they can't stop it in there own country?ummm i said TORTURE, dumbass. here is the definition of torture(obviously you dont know)
torture: 1. Infliction of severe physical pain as a means of punishment or coercion.
2. An instrument or a method for inflicting such pain.
2. Excruciating physical or mental pain; agony: the torture of waiting in suspense.
3. Something causing severe pain or anguish.then the defenition of getting shot. # The firing or discharge of a weapon, such as a gun.
1. The distance over which something is shot; the range.2.. An attempt to hit a target with a projectile: His shot at the bear missed by inches.
WOW you just learned a new vocabulary word.
"well then how can US millitary invade a mousqe and kill every one in there while praying ! my father was killed in there by
the pepole who claim that they are helping us! I saw it all with my own eyes I was shot in the sholder my father was shot then
one of the souldiers kept kicking him until he died!"That is not torture. your dad got shot. dont try to mix up my words.
Im am wondering though, you guys were just praying right? or were you doing anything else?
And just because a Group of people did that, you can not blame the other 800,000 peeple who are in the millitary(that number is the marines and the army combined, i havent even looked up air force, navy and all the other guards). Now i understand that you hate the certian people who shot your dad. btw whereever you go, there are going to be people like that. yeah even flower girls can walk up to anyone and shoot them. that doesnt mean you should hate every flower girl.
it must be hard living without your dad. im sorry that we had stupid people in that force, im pretty sure they will be delt with(you cant get away with that, people will know about things like that within days). although they will most likely be put in jail for the rest of their life, i know that does not bring back your dad.
- Jun 15, 2006
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salem-iraq i would also have to agree with bobobob on this. you cant blame the united states armied forces as a whole for the actions of one mindless person. besides i bet he was stressed out; being away from his home and his family. fighting a war that he is probably hoping would end soon, oh just of information yes i disagree with the war but i do feel sympathy for the soldiers, then to have a bunch of people yell at him isnt going to make things better.
it's natural in humans to take out angry and stress on other people even when they dont mean to, this by the way is called displaced angry. everyone one on earth has done it once or twice or maybe even more in their life-time and if you say that you havent then you would be lying. besides i am more then sure that he will get his punishment for doing such a thing.
midnightLOVERS
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soon love soon- Jun 15, 2006
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I m not blaming the US people... i have met great americans, really nice people.. . its your goverment the one i blame. I know a couple of people working in the US Army... nice decent people... , but war is wrong... the last thing a decent person wants is to go somewhere and kill another person, someones dad, brother, sister, aunt, grandma... its a nonstop violence cycle.
Now if salem wants to go out and kill some americans, would you blame him. I wouldn't... many people is in Iraq looking for revenge for 9/11... the same stupid hate in both sides. If Salem manages to go on, forgive and stop the cycle... he have my deepest admiration... like the people in Vietnam that now smile at the american tourist... thats being brave.
WAR IS WRONG... there is not good vs evil in wars, its kill or get killed... i wonder if we as human being will ever learn that... i guess never.
- Jun 15, 2006
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i understand that war is wrong, dont get me wrong on that. i dont like wars, at all, to me war nothing more then murdering without punishment. i mean, my grandfather was killed in the vietman war not to mention that my family is split in two different countries. most my mother's family who know lives in the united states and most my father's family who still live in my native vietnam.
but on the same token, i cant not fully blame my government. i have stated this over and over again but i shall say it one more time, because i want everyone to know this is what i feel about this. i disagree with the war completly, but also like i said i cant blame my government. i can not bring myself to do so. the reason why is this. many amiercans have died on the attack on 9/11, and many has never forgotten the horrors and shock of it and want justice. i am not saying that through a war justice can be achieved, not at all. but i am saying that it can prevent something like that from happening again. it's not the best way to go about doing it and i understand that and that's why i disagree.
but the reality of it is this. there was no other way of doing it. no matter how much i would have rather it be in peacefully negotiations it was never going to happen. it was just going t be a fruitless waste of talks. i finally realized that. i remember when this whole thing started. i blamed president bush for everthing. for the deaths on both sides for the wates of economic money that could have been spent on other more important things, but my uncle told. that i was too young to understand and my thoughts were pure and innocent and i was living in a idyllic world. i didnt understand him at that time but as i grew older i understand what he was trying to tell me, and i can no longer blame my government.
midnightLOVERS
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you can really think that you can live in a world with no war huh lol
I think that's just a world for hippiis. War is just something that'll happen cause there are other nations that dont like the US. You can't expect them to play Mercy or Roshambo to solve it. =D
- Jun 15, 2006
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Quote by Shinsengumi89Look above, My point exactly. Anyone to say this war is for justice is foolish.
Shinsengumi89
Well then, what about Bosnia Herzagovina? Kosovo? The Sudan Province? There has got to be justice, no matter in what form, to be brought upon those who would commit acts of atrocities.
For Salem-Iraq:
You actually think that living under fear is justifiable? Granted the people of Iraq lived under that umbrella of fear for decades. So can you explain the celebrations the Iraqi people had when Saddams Regime was toppled over? If it was because they was angry because the coalition forces (not US alone) invaded Iraq, why not fight for Saddam? Why allow countries invade and destroy your way of life? If the role was reversed, I believe we were welcome it........ however, if me and my people liked the way it was, we would fight to keep it that way.
So what you have to do now is explain to me and a few others why you rather live under oppression rather than freedom. :\
"In the absence of orders, find something and kill it" - Erwin Rommel
- Jun 15, 2006
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First it was WMD's and terroisim, now its for the freedom opf the people and it seems even tjeu aren't completly happy with our invasion,
well you know i think i'm finished trying to prove a point on this thread because people who belive that war is okay even though we lied about the resons for going in ( WMDS my ***) to one and think that it's patriotic to support the government no matter what, is just foolish and will be a waste of my time to try to convicce the people who will blindly follow their government.
Part of being an American citzen is to ask questions, get real answers( not scripted from politicans) and to seek out the truth, it's not unpatriotic to apolagize for your country, in fact it shows you , that you can swallow your shallow pride and be mature.
Pride can easily become arrogancee and ignorance and i fear that is what our nation has become.
So I apologize for my countries actions( the USA).
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Quote by salem-iraqhello.......I'm new here and by chance I found this topic.
first I'm not that good at english so forgive my mistakes.
secound I would like to thank Keiichi for bringing this up
and for saying all the things you said in those two pages
I completly agree with every single word you said.
now about the topic itself ..... I don't really care If the war in IRAQ is like the war in vietnam or not ( althuogh it is similar in
alot of things and diffirent in other) because we can talk about similarites and diffirences until god knows when without getting the real point! which is the war in IRAQ is WRONG! and that is
the main similarity between the two wars both were wrong and both were made for the sake of US power and control.....
not for justice and definetly not for freedom!Quote by bobobob :
btw id like you to know that the US millitary is not allowed to tourture people. all we can do is sleep deprive them. ^^ well id thought that id inform you of that so you dont make mistakes like that again
well then how can US millitary invade a mousqe and kill every one in there while praying ! my father was killed in there by
the pepole who claim that they are helping us! I saw it all with my own eyes I was shot in the sholder my father was shot then
one of the souldiers kept kicking him until he died!
all that happend just because we yelled at the souldiers to go back to thier own country befor going to pray none of us imagined that some of the souldiers will go crazy and kill most of the pepole in the mousqe I still remember how the american that
killed my father kept kicking him saying that we are nothing but trash!
because of this war I am now without afamily my father and uncle were killed in this war and they were all I had.
I am living in syria now with some pepole who took me in
I am not in IRAQ anymore but I still see the horrours of this war
in my dreams.
I had never liked suddam but that doesn't mean that I wanted this war ... the last thing our country needs is a war .
I am 14 year old iraqi boy ... and please don't talk about things you don't know... none of you have lived a war am I right?
you don't know how it's like.did any of you know that we stayed without electricity and water
for along long time when the americans first had control of the country! did you know that our museums were robbed of every thing and the american troops did nothing about it!
ofcorse they didn't! after all they had more important things like
taking over the oil ministry and making sure every thing goes
as planned!Don't ever say that this war is for helping iraqy pepole because it is not. we never asked for help in the first place.
if US want to fight terrorism they should fight it in there own country first just how many terrorrism attacks happen every day in US by americans them selves? how can the US save the WORLD from terrorism if they can't stop it in there own country?Wait a minute.....I glad that I re-read this.
I may have not lived there as long as you, but I been there for two years and I HAVE HEARD THEIR STORIES! So first, let me address this:
You said that your father was shot while praying in a mosque, sorry to hear that. However no US forces ever engaged a mosque in hostile actions unless they were fired upon from the mosque. And even then, that request has to go to the top to get authorization. That is why the insurgency kept their safehouses and weapons in schools, hospitals and mosques, because they knew those were places we can't go! But you know what? I believe that you have a far different perspective than what other Iraqis have about its future. Most of Iraq were without electricity and water well BEFORE the invasion! And it was the Iraqi military that destroyed the remainder of the water purification and electrical generator systems during the invasion! It was to prevent the US-led forces from establishing key logistical points to operate from. However, they also made their own people suffer in the progress. These were one of the ways Saddam kept the people in check, to deny the people basic and fundamental needs.
How do I know all this? I helped two Iraqi families find asylum in the US; they helped us gain the people trust and a few locations in Iraq to facilitate in the reconstruction of their infrastructure...... namely restoring one of the power plants and the water treatment plants along the Tigris river north of Balad, Iraq.........Look kid, you can blind some, but you can't blind all!
I am curious to know why your family fled to Syria, a country who has made it known that they are enemies to all, even Iraq! More insurgents who have killed Iraqi civilians have came from Syria, but yet your family chose to move there! If I disliked the the US government (or any western country) so bad that I leave my homeland for another that rather see us dead, then that's a problem. The best way to get rid of a unwelcomed guest is either help them so they can hurry up and get out, or to push them out, but not run from them.
"In the absence of orders, find something and kill it" - Erwin Rommel
- Jun 15, 2006
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Stupid Bush..."terrorism" is an idea and is easy to manipulate into what you want. Terrorism will always exist no matter which counties you bomb. Therefore, the war on terrorism is impossible to win - just like the war on drugs.
- Jun 15, 2006
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Quote by Shinsengumi89First it was WMD's and terroisim, now its for the freedom opf the people and it seems even tjeu aren't completly happy with our invasion,
well you know i think i'm finished trying to prove a point on this thread because people who belive that war is okay even though we lied about the resons for going in ( WMDS my ***) to one and think that it's patriotic to support the government no matter what, is just foolish and will be a waste of my time to try to convicce the people who will blindly follow their government.
Part of being an American citzen is to ask questions, get real answers( not scripted from politicans) and to seek out the truth, it's not unpatriotic to apolagize for your country, in fact it shows you , that you can swallow your shallow pride and be mature.
Pride can easily become arrogancee and ignorance and i fear that is what our nation has become.
So I apologize for my countries actions( the USA).
First off I was never a advocate for anything unless it is a just cause. Since the war in Iraq over screwed up intel doesn't mean we leave a country without some sort of government for the country to function. That is a just cause. If we screwed up, oh well. We are all human.......and mistakes happen everytime. But it what you do after the mistake you made that defines who you are.
While you are busy apologizing......It was a mistake to kill Indians.
It was a mistake to own Slaves.
It was a mistake to segregate and not allow others to advance.Where are the apologies to those people, Shinsengumi89? Iraqis were not the only ones who were wronged.
"In the absence of orders, find something and kill it" - Erwin Rommel
- Jun 15, 2006
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Kubrickfan
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Quote: Also you do relize what the war has done. Iraq was probably one of the worst dictatorship's right now, and now it has a government. Women are'nt getting raped to death, children are'nt getting killed and dragged around streets to terrorize the people, and men are not haveing their heads butchard off to be staked on a log to scare people. I think it was a pretty damn good idea to go in and help all of those people. Also, the people are HAPPY for us to get rid of the dictatorship and alot of iraqi's love us(well besides the few followers of suddam and the terrorists). Veitnam was a terrible war that served for no purpose(but luckly it did make veitnam alot better which im glad), we came in originally to save france's ass but then they backed off and ran from their own war. But i truly respect every man who was in veitnam.
I agree with this.
Knowledge is power, guard it well.
- Jun 15, 2006
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Iraq must be better thanks to USA, isn't it?
Hear Iraq people, they have something to say about it. Better than the militaries or the propaganda -- I apologize, the media --. They say the truth, plain and simple.
Bobobob, Salem-Iraq isn't wrong. He told what happened, I read and understood the whole story. What's the point, he doesn't write in English as you do? I don't write in English as you do (and I don't need it too because I'm Brazilian and here we speak Portuguese). I'm sure Salem-Iraq understands these words:INVASION: When someone enters in your country without being called (I'm being polite).
INVADER: The actor of an INVASION.
MASSACRE: When a group of people lives end in result of man action.It should be enough.
One last question: Why USA isn't 'helping' Bosnia as Iraq?Mene, mene, tekel, parsin
- Jun 15, 2006
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Quote by LigerZSchnider
Quote by salem-iraqhel(...) new here and by chance I found this topic.
first I'm not that good at english so forgive my mistakes.
secound I would like to thank Keiichi for bringing this up
and for saying all the things you said in those two pages
I completly agree with every single word you said.
now about the topic itself ..... I don't really care If the war in IRAQ is like the war in vietnam or not ( althuogh it is similar in
alot of things and diffirent in other) because we can talk about similarites and diffirences until god knows when without getting the real point! which is the war in IRAQ is WRONG! and that is
the main similarity between the two wars both were wrong and both were made for the sake of US power and control.....
not for justice and definetly not for freedom!Quote by bobobob :
btw id like you to know that the US millitary is not allowed to tourture people. all we can do is sleep deprive them. ^^ well id thought that id inform you of that so you dont make mistakes like that again
well then how can US millitary invade a mousqe and kill every one in there while praying ! my father was killed in there by
the pepole who claim that they are helping us! I saw it all with my own eyes I was shot in the sholder my father was shot then
one of the souldiers kept kicking him until he died!
all that happend just because we yelled at the souldiers to go back to thier own country befor going to pray none of us imagined that some of the souldiers will go crazy and kill most of the pepole in the mousqe I still remember how the american that
killed my father kept kicking him saying that we are nothing but trash!
because of this war I am now without afamily my father and uncle were killed in this war and they were all I had.
I am living in syria now with some pepole who took me in
I am not in IRAQ anymore but I still see the horrours of this war
in my dreams.
I had never liked suddam but that doesn't mean that I wanted this war ... the last thing our country needs is a war .
I am 14 year old iraqi boy ... and please don't talk about things you don't know... none of you have lived a war am I right?
you don't know how it's like.did any of you know that we stayed without electricity and water
for along long time when the americans first had control of the country! did you know that our museums were robbed of every thing and the american troops did nothing about it!
ofcorse they didn't! after all they had more important things like
taking over the oil ministry and making sure every thing goes
as planned!Don't ever say that this war is for helping iraqy pepole because it is not. we never asked for help in the first place.
if US want to fight terrorism they should fight it in there own country first just how many terrorrism attacks happen every day in US by americans them selves? how can the US save the WORLD from terrorism if they can't stop it in there own country?Wait a minute.....I glad that I re-read this.
I may have not lived there as long as you, but I been there for two years and I HAVE HEARD THEIR STORIES! So first, let me address this:
You said that your father was shot while praying in a mosque, sorry to hear that. However no US forces ever engaged a mosque in hostile actions unless they were fired upon from the mosque. And even then, that request has to go to the top to get authorization. That is why the insurgency kept their safehouses and weapons in schools, hospitals and mosques, because they knew those were places we can't go! But you know what? I believe that you have a far different perspective than what other Iraqis have about its future. Most of Iraq were without electricity and water well BEFORE the invasion! And it was the Iraqi military that destroyed the remainder of the water purification and electrical generator systems during the invasion! It was to prevent the US-led forces from establishing key logistical points to operate from. However, they also made their own people suffer in the progress. These were one of the ways Saddam kept the people in check, to deny the people basic and fundamental needs.
How do I know all this? I helped two Iraqi families find asylum in the US; they helped us gain the people trust and a few locations in Iraq to facilitate in the reconstruction of their infrastructure...... namely restoring one of the power plants and the water treatment plants along the Tigris river north of Balad, Iraq.........Look kid, you can blind some, but you can't blind all!
I am curious to know why your family fled to Syria, a country who has made it known that they are enemies to all, even Iraq! More insurgents who have killed Iraqi civilians have came from Syria, but yet your family chose to move there! If I disliked the the US government (or any western country) so bad that I leave my homeland for another that rather see us dead, then that's a problem. The best way to get rid of a unwelcomed guest is either help them so they can hurry up and get out, or to push them out, but not run from them.
Also mosque's are one of the most commenly places for terrorists to hide. so it could of been a raid to ambush terrorists. but LigerZSchnider is right, US troops havent envaded places till they get authorazation(and im pretty sure they havent raided any mosque's). also it takes time to get supplies to water and get electricity for everyone.
and i lived near iraq for a year and i knew alot of people who wanted help. ive been to 2 3rd world countries(china being one of them)
merged: 06-16-2006 ~ 06:40am
Quote by leonardobarbaIraq must be better thanks to USA, isn't it?
Hear Iraq people, they have something to say about it. Better than the militaries or the propaganda -- I apologize, the media --. They say the truth, plain and simple.
Bobobob, Salem-Iraq isn't wrong. He told what happened, I read and understood the whole story. What's the point, he doesn't write in English as you do? I don't write in English as you do (and I don't need it too because I'm Brazilian and here we speak Portuguese). I'm sure Salem-Iraq understands these words:INVASION: When someone enters in your country without being called (I'm being polite).
INVADER: The actor of an INVASION.
MASSACRE: When a group of people lives end in result of man action.It should be enough.
One last question: Why USA isn't 'helping' Bosnia as Iraq?Ok in the war, More Iraqi's killed iraq's than americans(that tells you something), and even then most of the iraqi soldiers gave up as soon as saddam went into hiding. So really the only people we have been killing is terrorists. So there hasnt been any masacure there except terrorists. So there hasnt been any "massacre"
*UPDATE*- my bad, yes its true that US troops have invaded mosque's, because terrorists love to hold hostages. see terrorists dont care if they live, as long as they make america look bad, so sometimes(not much) they put is in a horrible position and they kill some of their hostages and we go in and kil the terrorists. they will do anything to try to win, yes even killing their own hostages to make us seem bad, even if they die.- Jun 15, 2006
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I don't think that it will be the new Vietnam. The North Vietnamese were supported by China and the Soviet Union! Those two nations were immensely powerful! I'm more worried about Iran. Those guys are nuts!
Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.
- Currently watching: Naruto
- Jun 16, 2006
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hello again......first I would like to thank every one for reading
my review and replying to it wether they agree or disagree .now I will try to reply to every one of you because there is alot of important points you have mentiond.... I will try to reply to all of you but If I couldn't I'm sorry I will reply soon after.
now first Keiichi :
I would like to thank you for your caring really I can feel how
much you mean what you said I can feel the energy behind your
words .... just knowing that someone like you is there and trying
to understand is enough to make me feel better.... enough to let me
know that my father's death wasn't for nothing .... you don't have to apologize all I am asking is for you to say no to this
war nothing more ..... thank you.now to midnightLOVERS :
thank you again for understanding you don't have to apologize
too and I have never said that you shouldn't be proud of your
country..... every one love there country and family unconditionaly witn there rights and wrongs we love them ....
all I am asking is say no to the war and help to end it sooner
it is better for our pepole and yours .....now to bobobob :
first you said "dumbass" does insulting pepole make you feel better? anyway I will not insult you back because this isn't
the way I explain my points or express my opinion so I forgive
you .
second I thank you for taking some of your precious time to explain torture to me ... but I am not stupid the thing is I Quoted
your words for another reason you see, I wanted to put the prison of Abou-Greab as example ... but when I was copying my
reply from word to here it slipped so sorry for the unintentional mistake that is all ,so here is the reply how it shoud have beenQuote by bobobob :
btw id like you to know that the US millitary is not allowed to tourture people. all we can do is sleep deprive them. ^^ well id thought that id inform you of that so you dont make mistakes like that againok so why don't you explain to me what happend in the prison of Abou-Greab you sure heard about it how the iraqi prisoners were treated ? pain, humeliation, sexual assults.....est
I think you all heard about it and saw some of the sick pictures that some of US soldiers took .... what I mean is the rulse didn't
prevent them from doing this horreble act so it doesn't matter if they are allowd to do this or not what really matters is that they did it . another example for you to know that there is no rulse in war is what happend to my father because if there was rulse well then how can US millitary invade a mousqe and kill every one in there while praying ! my father was killed in there by
the pepole who claim that they are helping us! I saw it all with my own eyes I was shot in the sholder my father was shot then
one of the souldiers kept kicking him until he died!
all that happend just because we yelled at the souldiers to go back to thier own country befor going to pray none of us imagined that some of the souldiers will go crazy and kill most of the pepole in the mousqe I still remember how the american that
killed my father kept kicking him saying that we are nothing but trash!
because of this war I am now without afamily my father and uncle were killed in this war and they were all I had.
I am living in syria now with some pepole who took me in
I am not in IRAQ anymore but I still see the horrours of this war
in my dreams.
I had never liked suddam but that doesn't mean that I wanted this war ... the last thing our country needs is a war .
I am 14 year old iraqi boy ... and please don't talk about things you don't know... none of you have lived a war am I right?
you don't know how it's like.
________________sorry again that was my origenal reply.
now to the rest of your reply:Quote by bobobob:
Im am wondering though, you guys were just praying right? or were you doing anything else?first you call me "dumbass" and now you are implying that I am
a liar ! let me explain what happend in details:we were going to the mosque to pray like always there was some soldiers about 8 I am not sure because I didn't count them
but I'm sure more than five.... one of the soldiers asked us:"still praying for that f****** god of yours? how long have you been treated like TRASH what did he do ha!? we were the ones who saved you at the end so where is your god?"
you can imagen how angry we were most of the pepole going to pray stopped and started shouting at the group of soldiers my father is one of them most of the shouting was about that we don't need them in our life and they should go back to thier country
the shouting lasted for like 5 minutes until the "imam" the one who leads our prayers came out and started to calm the iraqi pepole we went inside and some of us were still shouting at the soldiers but the "imam" was finaly able to calm them all and the prayer started..... soon and while we were praying the soldiers
started shooting I felt burning pain in my shoulder and fell down
my sight was blurry and I only heard screaming every where I was so scared I didn't move I stayed the way I was my face to the ground until I heard my fathers voise so close to me repeating over and over again "allah please spare salem please protect him" over and over .... then I heard someone hit another
and my father screamd in pain but still he kept saying the same words over and over "allah please spare salem please protect him" then I heard the soldier say"you are still praying don't you see that your god won't save you I am killing you now so where is he? answer whare is he?! stop saying that you f****** trash"
and my father kept repeating the same thing and I just laid there too afraid to do anything to help my father then I just turned my head alittle to the left and saw the soldier kicking my father everywhere his face, stomach,hands and legs kicking him over and over at that point the pain in my chest was increasing to the point of bieng unbareble I wan't sure anymore if I was shot in the shoulder or in my chest and all I can hear is the soldier repeating the word trash I didn't hear my father anymore nor the screaming of the others just the soldier until another soldier came and took him and every thing went quiet all I did was staring at my father all bloody and not moving.
from there I don't remember anything but when I awaked in the hospital
I have known then that all the pepole in the mosque had died including my father (22 pepol 19 men and 3 children of the ages 10,7and 5) some soldiers came and asked what happend I talld them every thing I know they took the information and thanked me after that when I was well enough I was sent to syria with an iraqi man and that was all.
my father was my last relative so there was no one to take care of me in iraq so a family here in syria took me and I don't know if the soldiers who did this were punished or not .this happend for real wether you belive me or not I don't care.
Quote by bobobob :
And just because a Group of people did that, you can not blame the other 800,000 peeple who are in the millitary(that number is the marines and the army combined, i havent even looked up air force, navy and all the other guards). Now i understand that you hate the certian people who shot your dad. btw whereever you go, there are going to be people like that. yeah even flower girls can walk up to anyone and shoot them. that doesnt mean you should hate every flower girl.who said I blamed everyone or hate everyone?the thing I hate more than anything is this war , and I am not talking about war ingenrall I am talking about a war with one purpuse power and control. I blamed the man who put some one like the soldier who killed my father in charge of somthing so dangerous like a weapon. I blame the ones who are in charge of keeping an eye on what thier soldiers are doing, because If you think this was the first time somthing like that happend you are mistaken I know alot of pepole who had stories even worse than mine some of them were killed in there own houses other were raped! but those stories always stayed far far away from the media just like what is happening in Palestine.
now I have to go I well reply to you all soon.
merged: 06-17-2006 ~ 12:09am
Hi I'm back :Quote by midnightLOVERS :
you cant blame the united states armied forces as a whole for the actions of one mindless person. besides i bet he was stressed out; being away from his home and his family. fighting a war that he is probably hoping would end soon, oh just of information yes i disagree with the war but i do feel sympathy for the soldiers, then to have a bunch of people yell at him isnt going to make things better.
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you said "stressed out" so If you are stressed out you go crazy and kill 22 pepole! I can't belive what are you saying ...
right now I have no family and I am away from my country not to mention my coutry is in a war and my father was killed in a horrible way infront of my own eyes! and I am only 14 and I was 13 when my father was killed ... I am stressed out so now I am supposed to go out and wait for somone to shout at me and go kill him and another 5 or 10 pepole around him !
is that what you are saying?!
in your opinion who is more stressed out the soldier who killed my father or me?! you tell me!Quote by midnightLOVERS :
it's natural in humans to take out angry and stress on other people even when they dont mean to, this by the way is called displaced angry. everyone one on earth has done it once or twice or maybe even more in their life-time and if you say that you havent then you would be lying. besides i am more then sure that he will get his punishment for doing such a thing.
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ok lets say I had displaced anger I would punch somone or I would shout at him with no reason ,I may even hit him with a book or somthing not shot him then keep kicking him to death!
that is not normal ,killing 22 pepole without real reason is not displaced anger it is a crime!
and I don't know If they were punished or not I wasn't tolld anything they took the information and tolld me that I will be sent to syria because there is no one to take care of me in iraq.
-------------------------------------Quote by Keiichi:
I m not blaming the US people... i have met great americans, really nice people.. . its your goverment the one i blame. I know a couple of people working in the US Army... nice decent people... , but war is wrong... the last thing a decent person wants is to go somewhere and kill another person, someones dad, brother, sister, aunt, grandma... its a nonstop violence cycle.Now if salem wants to go out and kill some americans, would you blame him. I wouldn't... many people is in Iraq looking for revenge for 9/11... the same stupid hate in both sides. If Salem manages to go on, forgive and stop the cycle... he have my deepest admiration... like the people in Vietnam that now smile at the american tourist... thats being brave.
WAR IS WRONG... there is not good vs evil in wars, its kill or get killed... i wonder if we as human being will ever learn that... i guess never.
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as always I agree with you on everything I have never said that I hated the pepole of US I have said it over and over its your goverment the one i blame and the pepole who know the real reason behind this war and still supported it.
I just want the army out of my country I don't want there death or there help ... I want the war to stop.
---------------------------------------------Quote by midnightLOVERS :
many amiercans have died on the attack on 9/11, and many has never forgotten the horrors and shock of it and want justice. i am not saying that through a war justice can be achieved, not at all. but i am saying that it can prevent something like that from happening again. it's not the best way to go about doing it and i understand that and that's why i disagree.
-------------------------------------------(...)when you see something wrong you should say no to it that simple. you think the war is wrong then you should say no I beleive you have the freedom of expressing your opinions right so if 80% of your pepole said that they didn't want this war wouldn't that stop it? isn't that what should have happend?
If you think this war will prevent somthing like 9/11 from happing again you are so mistaken , do you know why ?
because everywhere your army goes he leaves death , anger and the desire to get reveng , just like what your pepole want for 9/11 pepole in IRAQ or PAKESTAN will want reveng later
so what your army is doing now is spread seeds of hate and reveng every time they invade a country and the cycle will go on forever.- Jun 16, 2006
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Quote by leonardobarbaOne last question: Why USA isn't 'helping' Bosnia as Iraq?
The USA did help in Bosnia. Since the US had forces in neighboring Germany, assisting was easy, being part of the NATO forces. However, there too the fighting Serbian rebels and Bosnians took American lives; and they weren't there to fight, they were on a peacekeeping mission as part of the NATO forces. Three of my fellow Cavarlymen were taken hostage and beaten. They were released six months later. There is a small group of US forces in the Sudan Province now for humanitarian purposes. If thing escalate to where they ask for US military support, I am sure they'll send troops to hold down the peace.
"In the absence of orders, find something and kill it" - Erwin Rommel
- Jun 16, 2006
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no iraqi-salam, i wasnt saying that you were a liar, i just really get angry when people try to mix up my words(so im sorry for calling you a dumbass, this has happend to me soo many times it gets to a point where you have to tell a person what you think, so im sorry), that is all. and no im not calling you a liar again, as i said earlier, terrorists love to be in mosque's so i thought that there could be a very good chance that that was the cause of the shootings. i belive its wrong that that soldier was taunting your god and your belifes. your beifes are your own and no one should say anything about them. Also when we put the people in a prison, its not our own, we put them in a iraqi prison where iraqi's control it, not us
- Jun 16, 2006
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Then, US (or any other nation) intels can't be 100% accurate about T's location and etc...
Who knows if he is a suicide bomber?oh, and then... Iraqi Forces look like 90's> US forces...
- Jun 16, 2006
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Quote by midnightLOVERS
but my uncle told. that i was too young to understand and my thoughts were pure and innocent and i was living in a idyllic world. i didnt understand him at that time but as i grew older i understand what he was trying to tell me, and i can no longer blame my government.
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is stoping a wrong and foolish war is considred somthing like a dream or a fairy tale nowadays ? is that what your uncle is telling you? or is he saying that we should understand that to do somthing right we will have to do some wrong things along the way because we are not in idyllic world? so now we can watch the war on TV we can feel proud because some of the iraqi pepole that the camera choose to film are celebrating happily so even If this war has killed many innocent lives and it's objective wasn't that clear in the first place, and even If alot of other iraqi pepole (who didn't get the chance to be on TV I think that they are far more in number) are not happy with our army bieng there they are just a few followers of suddam and the terrorists right? that got to be it right?!
--------------------------------Quote by songprayeryuna :
War is just something that'll happen cause there are other nations that dont like the US.
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well it looks like you think that war happen because of the nations that dont like the US. so in your opinion why do other nations dislike US ?
---------------------------------------Quote by LigerZSchnider :
You actually think that living under fear is justifiable? Granted the people of Iraq lived under that umbrella of fear for decades.
--------------------------------what I know that the fear didn't stop after the US invation. not just that but the feeling of bieng treated like trash (I have heard that word many times from americans )was always there. for me I have never felt fear like I did that day when I saw my father bieing killed and I couldn't even move or make a sound. that day I've known what real fear means I saw death with my own eyes and I still remember how I wished to close my eyes forever because I didn't want to live in a world were I see and hear weapons every single day and stand hopless while watching the most important person in my life bieng killed.
at least when it was with suddam the whole world knew he was wrong but now the whole world think that we have been saved but in reality we and our new government and our oil will be controled by US for along time because we all know when US desid to go back to thier country they will leave some troops behind just in case ( you know like the troops in kuwait and saudi arabia....) we are not free realy it is just an illusion false freedom and it is much worse than bieng in prison, why you ask? because when you are in prison you fight to be free but when you think you are free the well to fight will just rest then with time it will disapear until the new jailer do somthing that will shutter the illusion and just then the history will repeat it self.
------------------------------------Quote by LigerZSchnider :
So can you explain the celebrations the Iraqi people had when Saddams Regime was toppled over?
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yes I can explain, when somone you always known to hate is out of your life you feel happy that is common sence , and you said you lived in iraq for a while so If you were there that day you would know that just some small groups of iraqi pepole were celebrating the rest of us which was much more we were just watching , waiting feeling nothing but aprehention ,I remember thinking while watching some of US soldiers toppled over a statue of sudam (that first day of the invation) and some of the iraqi pepole were cheering I remember thinking
"why am I not happy? what is this feeling I'm getting? somthing like waitting for your worst fears to come true?"
and just after thinking that the answer came like slape on my face...... the soldier who is standing above the fallen statue of suddam surrounded by iraqi pepole had spread an american flag all over the statue! he didn't even think that the iraqi flag should be the one to be spread after all this should be a victory and freedom to iraq not US . after doing that the whole celebrating groube stilled for some time all shoucked by the soldier's doing then they all shouted and objected about the flag ofcourse the soldier then knew what a mistake his unconscious action was and replaced the US flag with the iraqy one.
you see after that I knew why I wasn't happy that day because my worst fear has come true , it is another prison just another one but with whole new bars and a new jailer.
most of you have seen this on TV right that first day the flag thing you all saw it .
------------------------------------------Quote by LigerZSchnider :
So what you have to do now is explain to me and a few others why you rather live under oppression rather than freedom
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like I said befor:"because I didn't want to live in a world were I see and hear weapons every single day and stand hopless while watching the most important person in my life bieng killed.
at least when it was with suddam the whole world knew he was wrong but now the whole world think that we have been saved but in reality we and our new government and our oil will be controled by US for along time because we all know when US desid to go back to thier country they will leave some troops behind just in case ( you know like the troops in kuwait and saudi arabia....) we are not free realy it is just an illusion false freedom and it is much worse than bieng in prison, why you ask? because when you are in prison you fight to be free but when you think you are free the well to fight will just rest then with time it will disapear until the new jailer do somthing that will shutter the illusion and just then the history will repeat it self"merged: 06-17-2006 ~ 01:54pm
Quote by Shinsengumi89:
Part of being an American citzen is to ask questions, get real answers( not scripted from politicans) and to seek out the truth,
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first thank you so much for your brave words and I apsolutely agree with you ! really to everyone of you pepole no matter where you are from or what language you do speak SEEK THE TRUTH
it won't come to you belive me some times the truth could be a foot away from you but you wont know if you aren't looking for it! don't live your lives blind! if you do, some day you will wish you hadn't but it will be too late to make things right.
----------------------------------------Quote by LigerZSchnider :
However no US forces ever engaged a mosque in hostile actions unless they were fired upon from the mosque. And even then, that request has to go to the top to get authorization.
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you said "engaged" that means there was another party fighting the thing is you have read what happend we didn't even have weapons we weren't even the ones who startted the commotion the soldiers did by insulting our god and insulting us! and I don't think those soldiers have requested any premition or got authorization for that matter. you know satating the rulse is not enough you should watch if your soldiers are actiouly following them! so tell me now where was the TOP you talked about when this happend?!
-----------------------------------------Quote by LigerZSchnider :
they helped us gain the people trust and a few locations in Iraq to facilitate in the reconstruction of their infrastructure...... namely restoring one of the power plants and the water treatment plants along the Tigris river north of Balad, Iraq.........Look kid, you can blind some, but you can't blind all!
-------------------------------------------(...)I never said the american troops were the ones that cut the water and electrecity you can read again just to be sure,
what I said was that you took care of other more important things to you before restoring the power plants and the water treatment plants.
and you didn't answer me about the museums bieng robbed of every thing I am sure you know that those can't be compensated
it is our history and your troops were the ones responsible for keeping order in IRAQ at that time so what were they doing?
and another thing,
is calling me "kid" supose to make feel
what? afraid? immature?or stupid?! yes I am 14 year old kid and that doesn't make me less truthful or less understaning to the situation and what exactly did you mean by blind? blind them from what? all I said I want the war to end and the troops out of my country that is all, it is my right as an iraqi boy to choose my own future and I want my future without troops of other countries rouming all around my homeland!
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*sarcasm* yes i see, living under terrorists roaming around your country is soooo much better than american troops. man i cant wait to get raped and have my head butchard off and then have my body draged around streets. or who knows, raped to death then just draged around the streets. i dont know, what would seem more fun to a terrorists eyes, killing multipule children, raping women and men then shooting them when they raped them enough, or getting toutured to death because one of the terrorists think it was "fun". which do you like better, the terrorists ruling or the american troops in there trying to get rid of all of them then leaving.
Also i dont listen to poloticans, ive been to iraq, and all over the middle east.
also weapons are easy to conceal in the robes you guys wear at mosque's. so there could of been a small possiblilty that some people were hidding them. again im not saying your lying, but its really easy to hide them in the robes you guys wear. ive seen people do it.
also what you said to midnightLOVERS phrase
So would you have perferd your children being on tv and getting hanged or shot. becauwe i bet thats something to be more proud of than having happy iraqi people on tv. and really, many innocent lives been killed, thats not even true, you do relize that america cant just shoot because they feel like it, and even if they tried, they cant get away with that. you think our government tries to hid things like that. the thing is they dont. if you have heard recently, there was a Marine that just got trialed 25 years of prison because a dog barked at a person. *sarcasm* so of course we can get away with the "slaughtering of many innocent lives". *sarcasm* i can see how the terrorist ruling must of been a dream too* .Also Iraqi's kill more iraqi's than americans. also there have been alot of deaths from dowery deaths that the middle east has (and yes iraq does that too) but i guess thats justifiable *sarcasm*- Jun 17, 2006
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Quote by LigerZSchnider:
I am curious to know why your family fled to Syria, a country who has made it known that they are enemies to all, even Iraq! More insurgents who have killed Iraqi civilians have came from Syria, but yet your family chose to move there!
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as I said before my father was the last member of my family and he was killed in this war as I already told you so I was sent to syria because there is no one who can take care of me in IRAQ the soldiers who talkd to me after the mousqe incident were the ones to tell me first . the family I am living with right now is a syrian family not an iraqi one they didn't adoppte me or anything I am just living with them my expences are paid by some associations.
and when did syria became an enemy of all?!
we arabs and muslims have one and only one enemy which is Israel (I think it is obvious why but if any one wants to know just ask I will be more than happy to answer) and why would syria send insurgents to kill Iraqi civilians ! what will they gain?
now this is part of US policy " If your not with us you're against us" so it was obvious for some time now that US new targets are Syria and Iran
just for you to know and I think you already know syria was one of the first countries that actuoly called for the world to define the word terrorism in every aspect before the so called war against terrorism started it's action. so tell me now US consider both Syria and Iran enemys right? tell me why? is it because Iran had nuclear weapons ? well why Israel can have nuclear weapons and Iran can't? why Isreal is not called your enemy?
or even listted on your list of fighting terrorism? need I tell you how many MASSACRES they had comitted in palestine? need I remind you that whole vileges had been stripped of it's pepole by grouping them all in one big place and then shot them to death!? after that the isrealy pepole just took the homes of the ones they killed and lived in it ?! some times keeping the same couch or table other times ripe the picture of the happy family that had lived there and took the same frame to put thier own pictures! were was your war against terrorism then?!
or in your opinion terrorism started just after 9/11?!
--------------------------------------Quote by LigerZSchnider:
If I disliked the the US government (or any western country) so bad that I leave my homeland for another that rather see us dead, then that's a problem. The best way to get rid of a unwelcomed guest is either help them so they can hurry up and get out, or to push them out, but not run from them.
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I have never wanted to leave IRAQ I had no choise but in the near future when I'm 18 I will be back ....
as for other familys who fled IRAQ I don't agree with them because it is like surrendering our land. I feel so sad when I see IRAQI pepole leave but sometimes pepole want to insure thier childern lives in a more stable inviroment that's the reason why any family would leave... still they should stay .
-------------------------------------------(...)Quote by kakashi1992 :
Stupid Bush..."terrorism" is an idea and is easy to manipulate into what you want. Terrorism will always exist no matter which counties you bomb. Therefore, the war on terrorism is impossible to win - just like the war on drugs.
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I agree with you , fighting Terrorism bush's way is impossible
not only that but it will eventuoly lead our world to be a huge battel field that will go streat towards distruction.
If you really want to fight Terrorism first you should know why it exeist in the first place for example:
when you want to cure some disease that is caused by hunger and living in dirty places some will just give the patient some medicine to kill the pactiria so the pactiria will be killed and the patient will be cured. but on the other hand you put the patient again in the same old invironmet so later you will see that the disease came back. so what you need to do here is to bring healthy food for the patient and provid him with a clean place to sleep in then you can rest asured that he will be healty.
Terrorism is just like thoes pactiria if there is injust and oppression there will always be Terrorism no matter how many times you try to kill them others will follow.
--------------------------------------Quote by LigerZSchnider :
Since the war in Iraq over screwed up intel doesn't mean we leave a country without some sort of government for the country to function. That is a just cause. If we screwed up, oh well. We are all human.......and mistakes happen everytime. But it what you do after the mistake you made that defines who you are.
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first the word "mistake" is a small word for what is happening I mean I can fight with my best freind and then know that it was a mistake so I go and apologize to him and then maby buy him something nice and then promise him and my self to never make the same mistake over agian because I know my friend will not forgive me over and over for repeating the same mistake.
but we can't call invading other's countries and then " screwing up" a mistake you can call it a disaster maby.....
trying to make up for some of the wrongs is nice and good but
what is more important than anything is to NOT make the same disaster over and over !
because some things can never be right again.
----------------------------------Quote by leonardobarba :
Bobobob, Salem-Iraq isn't wrong. He told what happened, I read and understood the whole story. What's the point, he doesn't write in English as you do? I don't write in English as you do (and I don't need it too because I'm Brazilian and here we speak Portuguese). I'm sure Salem-Iraq understands these words:INVASION: When someone enters in your country without being called (I'm being polite).
INVADER: The actor of an INVASION.
MASSACRE: When a group of people lives end in result of man action.
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thank you for the clarefication and your help.
---------------------------------Quote by bobobob :
no iraqi-salam, i wasnt saying that you were a liar, i just really get angry when people try to mix up my words(so im sorry for calling you a dumbass, this has happend to me soo many times it gets to a point where you have to tell a person what you think, so im sorry)
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it's ok I told you I already forgave you .... we all get angry some times so no harm done^^
------------------------------Quote by bobobob :
i belive its wrong that that soldier was taunting your god and your belifes. your beifes are your own and no one should say anything about them.
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thanks for understanding._________________________________________
I think that was all if I forget to answer anyone forgive me and just write it agian and I will sure reply.
I really thank everyone for reading this and partisipate in it and the big thanks is for Keiichi who gave me this chance to write what I have been through and what I feel now thank you so much.
- Jun 17, 2006
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