i know it might sound "dumb" (bcuz to me it does >_<) but i've been wondering if i'm the only one who thinks that God helped out with evolution . . . (*human evolution and all)
i dunno . . . just want to know what you guyz think. ^_^'
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"Words aren't the only thing that let people know what you're thinking..." - Tifa Lockhart, FFVII- Jun 21, 2006
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no no, its definitely not dumb. theres an entire theory on God helping evolution. It's called theistic evolution, ie God created the big bang as such.
I personally think its lame, because one of the main purposes of evolution is to state that there is no God. And when you put God back into the picture, whats the point of believing in evolution anyway, you might as well just believe that God created the world.
- Jun 21, 2006
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Well, it doesn't go without saying that evolution and God canceles each other out. Religion, particularly that which is written in the Bible, is not a all or nothing. Espescially if you concider the way even (or rather, especially) fundamentals tend to interpret certain passages or verses the way they want to. I myself, at first, tended to believe that God willed the universe into being, set a few basic rules which the evolutionary developments (macro- en micro-) followed, and basically whatched over things since. That was my belief up to the end of high school.
Since then I had studied a lot of the background of the Bible, the contexts in which its books were written, as well as the translation processes. It is extremely facinating, but not the type of information people generally want to hear (or understand). People tend to get its history wrong (look what the Da Vinci Code did!) and overreact in any given direction.
These background facts however do not answer your own question. I'd say, believe that which your current belief(s) recommend you to believe. If you tend to be rationalistic, believe in science or even God's hand in science. If you want to be charismatic, go for it! If you want to, you can even apply for a course in Bible translation and get to see the real deal with the Bible.
Untill then, however, believe what you want to. Please. You'll feel better for it...
Life is a game played by gods who are bored and who fight over the rules.
- Jun 23, 2006
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thx joemighty16! i'll keep that in mind! :)
"Words aren't the only thing that let people know what you're thinking..." - Tifa Lockhart, FFVII- Jun 24, 2006
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Well, I have thought about that a lot. I tend to believe in an infinite being, a god, and I also believe that evolution occurred. Seeing as evolution is extremely improbable (according to mathematics), it seems rational to think that God may have helped it along. It is always beneficial to sort this out in your own mind and make sense of what you find to be true to you. Never be shy about believing what makes the most sense to you, cause there are many people who will take advantage of those who are unsure of what to think.
- Jun 29, 2006
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RubyDrg0n
Wanna-be-Drg0n
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i dun think evolution is impropably.... as we got so many time to cause an extremely rare occurance.... probability of 1*10^-78 doesnt mean that it wont happen... juz really really really rare.... so our existance may juz be something that is rare and special..... doesnt mean that some greater existance create us or something.....
btw.... seemingly a being of infinity exists... he/she/it can have everything... why in the world or path of existance did he even bother to create us?
- Jun 29, 2006
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Quote by RubyDrg0ni dun think evolution is impropably.... as we got so many time to cause an extremely rare occurance.... probability of 1*10^-78 doesnt mean that it wont happen... juz really really really rare.... so our existance may juz be something that is rare and special..... doesnt mean that some greater existance create us or something.....
btw.... seemingly a being of infinity exists... he/she/it can have everything... why in the world or path of existance did he even bother to create us?
hmmm ... who knows? :x
"Words aren't the only thing that let people know what you're thinking..." - Tifa Lockhart, FFVII- Jun 29, 2006
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evolution is so solid to me, so i would have to say that it all happened naturally without any "godly" influence.
- Jun 30, 2006
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I tend to think that in the Christian view god has made humans to be perfect. If he made life all perfect, then why is there sufficient evidence otherwise? Evolution cannot simply be "god's hand" because if it were, evolution would never occur since god created all creatues as capable to live in its own environment. Anyway, science and Christianity just don't mix because there are too many contradictions otherwise. Why do the majority (like... 99%) of Christians condemn evolution? Because god never planned it to be.
- Jun 30, 2006
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Quote by suikodeeI tend to think that in the Christian view god has made humans to be perfect. If he made life all perfect, then why is there sufficient evidence otherwise? Evolution cannot simply be "god's hand" because if it were, evolution would never occur since god created all creatues as capable to live in its own environment. Anyway, science and Christianity just don't mix because there are too many contradictions otherwise. Why do the majority (like... 99%) of Christians condemn evolution? Because god never planned it to be.
You seem to mix fundamental Christianity with rational Chritsians. 99% of fundamental and charismatic may not believe in evolution, but I myself would say that most rational thinking Christians (at least here were I live - is that the entire 1% off your total?) assume and accept the reality of evolution. God's exact role in evolution might be disputed, but they accept modern science before the cosmogenical, cosmological, and even anthropological "traditions" of the Bible. Christians and science can go along and should go along.
I agree, however, with your argument up to that point.
I still don't know where you came up with your 99% majority.
Life is a game played by gods who are bored and who fight over the rules.
- Jun 30, 2006
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Quote by joemighty16You seem to mix fundamental Christianity with rational Chritsians. 99% of fundamental and charismatic may not believe in evolution, but I myself would say that most rational thinking Christians (at least here were I live - is that the entire 1% off your total?) assume and accept the reality of evolution. God's exact role in evolution might be disputed, but they accept modern science before the cosmogenical, cosmological, and even anthropological "traditions" of the Bible. Christians and science can go along and should go along.
I agree, however, with your argument up to that point.
I still don't know where you came up with your 99% majority.
My statistics are used loosely. Obviously I don't know the exact percentage, nor will there ever be an unbiased estimate of one, and that statistic is clearly my fault. However, it is true that the majority of Christians do not believe in evolution, unfortunately for science. Many Christians I have met are more outspoken than others, and they fall into the fundamental group.
- Jul 01, 2006
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Yes, I believe God provides a shove from the back here and now in all aspects of life, how it turns out, however, is anyone's guess. If you deny evolution, then how can you accept other things such as THE MICROWAVE... or THE COMPUTER... simply because God had it there all this time and those inventors just HAPPENED to find it? No... I don't think so, people-living organisms discovered this on their own, maybe with God's help, but we had to take it a step further on our own, hence the slight push, then we take it from there; least thats wht i think ^^
- Jul 01, 2006
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If you keep pushing god back further and further than what's the point in the first place? It used to be common knowledge that god lifted up the sun, threw down the lightning bolts, and basically caused everything we couldn't figure out. Now he's pushed all the way back to starting things up and then taking a nap for the rest of eternity. What's the point of you believing god set evolution in motion? What are you clinging to?
The christians who don't believe in evolution are the christians that actually take the bible seriously. The problem with evolution is that if evolution is true (which it is) then there was no adam and eve. And if there was no adam and eve there's no original sin, and without original sin there's no need for salvation, and if there's no need for salvation then jesus was a nobody who died for nothing. I actually don't see suikodee's 99% estimate as that far off...If a christian believes in evolution he just doesn't yet realize that he's probably just trying to fit in with the majority, or his family, or whatever.
- Jul 01, 2006
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hehehe i guess im an extremist then because i think evolutionism is completely wrong and that God in fact did create the earth IN 7 DAYS. not 124389712987421012 heres why.
1. i do no think evolution is SCIENCE in fact i see it as a religion, why? because for it to be science it had to be observed. did anyone see the big bang? so basically its just a crazy theory, and if you look deep enough an IMPOSSIBLE theory.
and actually believe it or not if you research the bible a little bit you can acutally see how it actually might be true.2. you know that charles darwin's only education is bible college? he was actually a pastors son, go figure
3. if you ask a evolutionary professer where the first little dot that blew up into a universe came from, he wont know.
4. oh and for ezpilze, you cant really compare something like the microwave to evoloution, microwave=obviously real, evolution=has no real support/evidence of being true, and no inventors found it, just dreamers
5. for the popular perfect earth question. God did make a perfect earth, (did you even read the bible?) us humans messed it up. come on you dont know the adam and eve thing? sin entered earth, God couldnt be with sin, sent his son Jesus to die and become a sacrifice for our sin, so that even though we screwed up, we can be with Him. ehhh that was kind of a rough sketch but if you have any questions about it just ask.
hehehe oh and sorrry if i offended anyone but if i did we can talk and debate away our differences :]
- Jul 01, 2006
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Quote by risatoshi1. i do no think evolution is SCIENCE in fact i see it as a religion, why? because for it to be science it had to be observed. did anyone see the big bang? so basically its just a crazy theory, and if you look deep enough an IMPOSSIBLE theory.
and actually believe it or not if you research the bible a little bit you can acutally see how it actually might be true.
Wow well you must know what you're talking about. I mean scientists always confuse the big bang with evolution even though they have nothing to do with each other at all. I guess you must be a scientist. And you're right, anything that isn't seen must be impossible! I mean I just scratched my nuts but I guess it's impossible for that to have happened since you didn't see me do it right? Your logic is flawless.
In fact it's brilliant! Go kill somebody and when you're brought infront of the jury say "No one SAW me kill him so it must just be an impossible CRAZY theory! Watch how fast you get tossed in prison.
- Jul 01, 2006
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Darwinian Evolution is absolutely incompatible with Christianity. You either believe in Darwinian Evolution and a god that is not the Christian God, or you believe in the Christian God and Creationism or Intelligent Design (ID).
Also, Darwinian Evolution is not to be confused with the established science of microevolution. Microevolution is fact, Darwinian Evolution (which involves macroevolution) is not. For more about this distinction download http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/filesDB-download.php?id=118 from http://www.dissentfromdarwin.org
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- Jul 01, 2006
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Quote by Persocom01Also, Darwinian Evolution is not to be confused with the established science of microevolution. Microevolution is fact, Darwinian Evolution (which involves macroevolution) is not. For more about this distinction download http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/filesDB-download.php?id=118 from http://www.dissentfromdarwin.org
Heh, I gotta wonder why you latch on to microevolution so much. Anyway, I've already proven macroevolution yet AGAIN and you ignored it in the other thread too. I'm guessing you have no response but if you insist on lying constantly at least back it up.
- Jul 01, 2006
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RubyDrg0n
Wanna-be-Drg0n
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btw, someone who is Christian pls explain the death of innocent dinosaurs or semi-sentient being we evolutionist thought as our ancestors in the ice age, why in the hell that god causes such happening to meaninglessly kill so many beings....
also if Christianity doesn't support evolution, pls come up with the reason how in the world so many creatures in species exist in the world? i suggest if we put all of the species of dinosaurs or fish or plants and mammals together, we will get so overcrowded.....
also we do see virus or bacteria change forms to adapt into new surroundings right? it is proven, so is this not evolution?
questions for ppl refusing evolution
- Jul 01, 2006
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well for me I know that god is the first creator he created everything even before there was anything at all so he created the humans and every creature from nano to huge sizes(so he didnt help he did create from nothing the diversitywe see now in creatures) I studied the darwinian evolution theory but many scientists said it have many flaws in it and many creature cannot be classified under that theory so at the end thats my opinion
- Jul 01, 2006
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And in the end, it is also your opinion that punctuation is useless. Evolution may have flaws, but creationism is a big gaping hole full of unanswered questions crucial to the "theory", primarily that of god's existance. "many creatures can't be classified" so goddidit? Is this logical? Or is it perhaps a bit more sensible to say that the current classification needs to be updated?
What I don't understand is why when religious people see something they don't understand (or don't want to understand) they open their mouths, close their minds, and go all together "goddidit!""When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis, Litterature Nobel Prize winner.
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http://mt-atheists.minitokyo.net/ ---> for science vs religion discussion
http://mt-gay-straight-club.minitokyo.net/ ---> for tolerant people- Jul 01, 2006
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i guess no one knows the "real" truth about anything! like scientists and such and people like us. i'm not saying that we may find the "truth" or may not and i'm not saying that i know... thats why i'm asking. and whats wrong with wondering? i'm just a curious person wanting know whats REALLY out there.
just to let you guyz know i'm a catholic.
"Words aren't the only thing that let people know what you're thinking..." - Tifa Lockhart, FFVII- Jul 01, 2006
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Well! As for my opinion God didn't help out with the Evolution! The Evolution Theory itself doesn't prove anything! Although there are some theories which proved to be God's work! Such as the Big Bang theory! Another one is that all creatures originated from water! But to think of the Evolution theory? Well I don't think it can become a mere fact, but I assure that it will remain a mere THEORY only! Nothing to prove! Just words of the old and IGNORRANT people!
- Jul 01, 2006
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Risatoshi you're really annoying me so from now on I'm going to reply to all your posts and explain to you why you have no clue.
Quote by risatoshihehehe i guess im an extremist then because i think evolutionism is completely wrong and that God in fact did create the earth IN 7 DAYS. not 124389712987421012 heres why.
Yeah well you can think whatever you want but don't come here pretending you know what you're talking about.
Quote: 1. i do no think evolution is SCIENCE in fact i see it as a religion, why? because for it to be science it had to be observed.
It has been observed directly but that isn't the point. Evidence can also be observed. Scientists look at evidence and then draw conclusions based on that evidence to figure out what happened. Ever hear of forensic science? They discover who commited crimes not by witnessing the actual crime but by observing the evidence and drawing the best conclusion about what happened. Even if evolution hadn't been observed you'd STILL be wrong.
Quote: did anyone see the big bang?
THE BIG BANG HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH EVOLUTION.
Quote: so basically its just a crazy theory
No a crazy theory would be saying a magical vengeful omnipotent being who lives in the sky created everything for no particular reason at all and through unknown and unknowable means.
Quote: and if you look deep enough an IMPOSSIBLE theory.
No you simply WISH it was impossible because you want so desperately for your religion to be true so your tiny brain doesn't have to comprehend the insignificance of your miserable little life.
Quote: and actually believe it or not if you research the bible a little bit you can acutally see how it actually might be true.
Really?! I might actually see? Even though it would be in a religion's best interest to prove the crazy stories in their bible and yet they can't find squat to back up any of it? Man that sucks for them.
Quote: 2. you know that charles darwin's only education is bible college? he was actually a pastors son, go figure
Ouch? Feeling betrayed? Or are you saying he isn't credible because of this education dispite the fact that his theories have held up under IMMENSE scientific scrutiny for over a hundred years?
Quote: 3. if you ask a evolutionary professer where the first little dot that blew up into a universe came from, he wont know.
Well first he'd laugh in your face because again you seem to have NO IDEA WHAT EVOLUTION IS. Christ!
Quote: 4. oh and for ezpilze, you cant really compare something like the microwave to evoloution, microwave=obviously real, evolution=has no real support/evidence of being true, and no inventors found it, just dreamers
Evolution has massive amounts of evidence supporting it and is widely accepted as fact in the scientific community, only religious nutjobs like yourself deny the veracity of evolution.
Quote: 5. for the popular perfect earth question. God did make a perfect earth, (did you even read the bible?) us humans messed it up. come on you dont know the adam and eve thing? sin entered earth, God couldnt be with sin, sent his son Jesus to die and become a sacrifice for our sin, so that even though we screwed up, we can be with Him. ehhh that was kind of a rough sketch but if you have any questions about it just ask.
Well if god's own creations messed up his creation then obviously it wasn't perfect now was it? I can't build a car and then blame the car itself for exploding can I? I don't think that defense would hold up in a class action lawsuit against the faulty vehicle.
Quote: hehehe oh and sorrry if i offended anyone but if i did we can talk and debate away our differences :]
Your ignorance greatly offends me. Thanks for apologizing though.
Quote: i guess no one knows the "real" truth about anything! like scientists and such and people like us. i'm not saying that we may find the "truth" or may not and i'm not saying that i know... thats why i'm asking. and whats wrong with wondering? i'm just a curious person wanting know whats REALLY out there. just to let you guyz know i'm a catholic.
I'm not even sure if this paragraph is in english.
Quote by pakat2
Well! As for my opinion God didn't help out with the Evolution! The Evolution Theory itself doesn't prove anything!Huh? Laws prove things. Scientific theories explain how things work. At best you can predict things with a theory, which is done often with the evolutionary theory.
Quote: Although there are some theories which proved to be God's work! Such as the Big Bang theory!
You proved god created the universe? And you haven't shown anyone this evidence? I suggest you get to work. The big bang is very well supported through evidence. And to prove the existence of god...Wow you'd be famous! And to think I knew you when you were just a troll on a message board.
Quote: Another one is that all creatures originated from water!
They did. But whatever.
Quote: But to think of the Evolution theory? Well I don't think it can become a mere fact, but I assure that it will remain a mere THEORY only! Nothing to prove!
Yeah like that stupid theory of gravity! Buddy you don't even understand what a scientific theory is. A theory never becomes a law and a law never becomes a theory. Furthermore a theory can be a theory and a fact at the same time, which evolution IS.
Quote: Just words of the old and IGNORRANT people!
You can't even spell ignorant.
- Jul 01, 2006
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Quote by PlunkiesHeh, I gotta wonder why you latch on to microevolution so much. Anyway, I've already proven macroevolution yet AGAIN and you ignored it in the other thread too. I'm guessing you have no response but if you insist on lying constantly at least back it up.
You didn't prove macroevolution. Now before you accuse me of lying you better back up your own words. I have already provided links. You don't provide a shred of evidence.
Quote by PlunkiesYeah like that stupid theory of gravity! Buddy you don't even understand what a scientific theory is. A theory never becomes a law and a law never becomes a theory. Furthermore a theory can be a theory and a fact at the same time, which evolution IS.
Imo comparing Dawinian Theory to Newton's Laws of gravity is a disgrace to Newton. There is a far cry between the reliablity for the evidence supporting Darwinian Theory compared to Newton's Laws of gravity.
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- Jul 02, 2006
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