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Critiquing, do you have to be Pro?

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Devilet

Devilet

~ cyNicaLDeviL ~

Well reading all the new posts here, I have to agree with each of you for the most part.
I've recieved comments like "good!" before, it makes me wonder why they posted it, haha. But that's okay, I hope they didn't get offended if I didn't reply to those comments. Just no help at all ... Or worth replying about.

Okay, well I don't know if you guys were about a year ago or more. I found there to be more people telling you what you can/should improve on in your art. This was how I improved so fast, my first wall here was major suckage compared to the top artists, but after receving such helpful critics and suggestions, I got better.

It's a shame not many follow this now, and some even take offence. I think we need to put the pride in a backseat, that kind of "I'm the best" or "I don't care what others think", only gets you so far in the world. Maybe if you listen, you could become better, every great person has hit rock bottom once in a lifetime after being criticized. You have to take it in, swallow your ego for the moment, and bloody listen!

I get disappointed most people don't return my comments when I try to help them. But maybe they did read it, I don't know.

Quote by studioJust because an artwork is highlighted doesn't mean it's put on a pedestal beyond criticism. Deserving of praise, sure. But don't you think that any suggestions can potentially help the artist improve & produce work of an even higher standard?

That's true, I think I saw some criticising highlighted works though, I don't think it's a problem. I can't remember if I ever did myself, lol. Standards depends on each individual, there are people who are art junkies, and others who simply just like anime. It's hard to change how people are and think, if they're satisfied with their stuff truly, they'll be stuck like that popping out the same stuff.

ASH-Hikari: That's a very good attitude you have, keep it up and you'll improve, seems you really wish to aswell. Going back to studio's you really don't need to be a professional to notice a disproportional nose or limb. Or in most walling case, over excessively blurry, bad extraction.

Quote by starrliteangelIve learned that critiquing is also a way to help yourself become a better artist. looking for flaws and good concepts in other people's pieces of art really helps when you make your own artwork.

That's a good point, I thought of it now. Because it's so easy to see flaws in others' works, simply because it's fresh eyes, and different thinking. If you see something doesn't look good, and realize you done something like that yourself, then you know not try it again.

Quote by crsg
I think you have to know enough about drawing to offer a detailed opinion about it, but that doesn't mean you have to be a pro... just that you have to have had some kind of experience.

Oh, I forgot to mention why I started this. A member here, I left a detailed comment on their wall, and the member wrote something kinda rude back on one of my walls, saying I should be BETTER than them in order to leave such a critic like that. Well yeah, I would think we don't need to be pro to point out simple observations, and it comes more naturally being able to draw, or use photoshop depending what we're commenting on.

That attitude you are speaking of does appera sometimes. I personally feel that to be able to effectively criticize somebody's work you need to have some "feel" or knowledge on how it was done, thus some experience in whatever you are criticizing. I mean, if you never done a **** of art, what are you going to critique? =P I strongly beleive that constructive criticism goes beyond pointing out flaws, for if you merely point out flaws people tend to get offended. I prefer to give specific suggestions on how to improve a work, and I have rarely seen a negative response.

But in all cases, YaY for CnC =) I mean, the best way to become better is try to read and follow constructive suggestions. And for it to be effective, the criticism should be polite, helpful and precise.

So no, you don't have to be better, but as long as your suggestions are polite and valuable people will appreciate them. I have had people who barely start doing a GFX editor I have been doing for years give me helpful hints I would have not thought of.

As for highlighted works, what studio was talking about, I would encourage additional criticism, because there is always room to make sth better; especially for highlighted works - some small improvements might make them even better. I take a personal liking to criticising those.

After all, CnC is an advice - take it or leave it. You should not expect it to be welcome or followed all the time; however, if you make it look useful and with good intentions, people will probably thank you for it. CnC is a skill to be developed just like drawing. And shame on those who take an aggressive attitude against criticism.

Wallpapers can be amazing or they can be cheap cop-outs. Just like with criticizing your best friend's short story or poem, It's all about how you give the news. You say something you like about it, and you say what didn't appeal to you and needs to be improved. Feel free to give a suggestion for how it can be improved. Any reaction from the artist in question then is their inability to take positive criticism when it's not the kind of feedback they wanted you to say. In that case, they wanted an ego boost, not a way to improve as an artist.

ChinoMareno

ChinoMareno

This is a girl in the picture

well you don't necessarily have to be better than someone to critique them. Like i think 50cent is Unmusical and crap at making music. Am i a better rapper than him, can i make the point his music is crap? hell yes. Just like how wrestling is retarded. DO i wrestle? no, because i don't mix concrete for a living.

Your avatar is an image which reflects your personality or an aspect of it. Minitokyo recommends against putting a female avatar if you are a male, and likewise for the other gender.

Mmh... I thought art is made so average people can enjoy it... Even mostly it's average people's opinion that's more important than the pros. So i guess it's okay for non-pros to critique. Just, you need to understand that some people don't appreciate being critiqued by someone not better than them. If someone doesn't need your help, just leave them be -_-

It's a judge that needs to be a pro...

o0Beginner0o

o0Beginner0o

B for Beginner

you don't always need a pro's eye to critique someone's work, when i make wallpapers i want average people to like it, if anyone criticizes it, whether they are not-experienced or if you are. something like "oh, the colours are a bit dull, it could use some contrast" is fine, but if they give you a list full and don't bother to care about any of the positive parts, then thats when you might be offended

Signature Imagei'm happy you're happy everyone is happy isn't that the best?

mentis

mentis

..art is no luxury..

I'm sorry for not reading everyone else's posts, but I don't really have time to at this moment.

I do want to say, however, that anyone who is or has taken a college art class will be able to critique a work effectively. That's just how such courses operate. Is everyone in the class a master? Of course not.

In your situation, this still applies. Many people do not know how to critique work, you are absolutely right. Taking a college/university art course would teach people how to do it right. Until then, we can only set a good example, whether people like it or not.

In my experience, most people appreciate it when I am candid in pointing out both strengths and weaknesses in their work. If you are genuine, and remain fair, then you should continue with your critiquing practice.

CyanideBlizzard

Retired Moderator

CyanideBlizzard

Margarita Time!

I think honesty is the best part of expressing ones opinion. I try to state what I find it be positive, yet if I find something I don't like or disagree with, I try to note, but be as nice as possible.

Recently, at another site, two people got into a VERY heated argument about something similar, due to the posters choice of words and the submitters misunderstanding of the situation. Alas, it ended poorly.

I think so long as there is no malice intent and the submitter understands that when you post your work online or anywhere in general, you are going to get feed back. Be it positive or negative. Just so long as people keep in mind the hardwork someone might of put into something and don't go for bashing, then I think it's all good. As long as someone knows that when someone offers advice, they don't mean to be rude, they simply want to help the person improve.

I'm probably stating old news and/or common sense, but it's the most important thing both the commenter and the poster of whatever it may be need to know.

Signature Image

I think all that it takes is to know a lot of things about what/who you are giving critique to and being critical-minded (duh). I don't think it's necessary to be a pro.

No matter how "professional" you are deemed, you're going to have a reaction to a piece of artwork, whether it be on a formalist level or otherwise. You're automatically going to judge the things you DO know, such as light, composition, proportion, etc.

And while you might not have the technical knowledge to do something similar, it doesn't mean the merit of your opinion is any less than the artist's. As long as you're constructive, the artist should be grateful and flattered that someone took the time to evaluate their work and offer up suggestions.

In order to offer certain kinds of deep criticism, however, you have to have knowledge (not necessarily talent) in that area. You can't really delve that deeply into a work whose medium you're unfamiliar with. A lot of comments on my art and writing are nice, but they're vapid. "Cute!" or "I love it!" simply have no substance, but if those are the kinds of things that sustain certain artists, you have to take into consideration that those artists might be producing similarly shallow things.

I'm an artist (and I'm still in school), and you're expected to critique the artwork your peers are producing. Part of that is recognizing that not everyone is going to agree with your opinion, and that everyone has a different threshold of criticism that they're able to withstand.

ArtificialRaindrop

ArtificialRaindrop

We're All Mad Here.

I don't believe you have to be "better" than someone to critique their work... "Better" isn't always easy to define, either, because as many people in this thread have stated a lot comes down to personal taste. I personally like constructive criticism, as I like to know where I messed up in quality (bad extraction I may have missed, stuff like that), and I like hearing other people's suggestions on what could be done to possibly improve my work in others ways, like things I might be able to add to it. I try very hard not to criticize works based on personal taste, but rather if it's how the artist wanted it to be and such, so artists who give practically no insight or description for their work make it hard to do so. But when possible, I try to point out what I feel is good and the bad in each piece.

One thing that does bother me, however, is when people demand I change something. Suggestions are great and criticism is awesome, but there's a point when you have to realize this is someone else's piece and not yours, and if the artist truly wouldn't like how it looks they way you think it should look, then I think you should accept that (minus poor quality, as we do have standards that everyone must follow here).

I do agree that some people are overly sensitive, though, and some try to find personal attacks in everything. I can understand being upset if people are saying mean things like "you suck!" or "I hate you work!" (and there are much worse things to hear, sometimes), but you can't just lump all criticism together as "mean". There are plenty of artists here that want to help everyone do the best they can, and no one is truly perfect. But I also think people should try to be tactful with what they say, because this is an online community, and you can't hear the way people say things, you just see it typed. I know you can't please everyone, but it helps if people at least try to be civil.

Signature ImageYou can't live without the fire, it's the heat that makes you strong ~ Within Temptation, "Iron"
KHDownloads <-- Butterfly Chaser referred!

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