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Problems with Minitokyo and How to Address Them: a Discussion

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Spystreak

Retired Moderator

Spystreak

The Grim Reaper

Quote by shinsengumiAlmina is absolutely correct, of course. Posts certainly need not all contain a groundbreaking interpretation of some literary classic, a new law of nature, or the cure to cancer. In my view, however, moderators are responsible for finding a balance between individual pleasure and the enjoyment of the community as a whole. Some threads, therefore, while they may be fun for the handful of members immediately involved, may be of great annoyance to the greater community, and therefore should perhaps be subject to a bit more restrictions

Yes she is right in that respect however the threads we have been getting as of late are mostly spam. They don't hold any sort of substance and usually contain the words favorite in it. In the past 2 days alone I have noticed maybe 7 threads alone made by the same member that followed the same format. One sentence then that was it. It is all well and good that members want to have fun in the forums, but some serious discussion does need to be done. Right now discussion takes place less then 20% of the time. Even when discussion does take place some members just run in and de-rail the whole discussion by posting something wholly un-related to the topic.

If you look at the Chat Lounge it was meant for light hearted topics: games, quizzes, random thoughts. The problem with this is members are taking the mechanics of the chat lounge and bringing them into the other sections. Newer members seeing this copy what others do. Why? I personally think they are trying to fit in. Make new friends and the like.

Quote by DeviletI think all the old threads should be closed, I know it'll take a long time, maybe there's a faster way. But I'm tired of people bumping old threads and some introductions even for some odd reason ... Oh, and for the members that write ALL IN CAPS FOR THE TITLE. This is very annoying ... I can't say I take anyone seriously with this.

That is an annoyance but we lack the staff to actually be able to close the numerous old threads that exist. There are literally thousands of them that would have to be closed then and that is just too time consuming.

The all caps titles I see them only as attention getters. It's like ads on the side of the road. They were meant to grab your attention and possibly interest. Do they work? Some do some don't. I just see them as an annoyance and edit the title whenever I see one.

Quote by Shinsengumi89When it comes to grammar, sometimes that just can't be helped, not everyone, is as good with a keyboard as others , and some are not particuarly good with English.

Yes MT is a rather diverse community that has members that don't speak english. However these members aren't really a problem. I have never had problems understanding what point they were trying to convey. The problem I see is in lazy members who type something quickly and don't bother to check it before clicking submit. These posts are filled with typos and various other mistakes. Not including wrong word usage which I admit I do from time to time.


Fools You Can't Escape from The Grim Reaper. Your Only Chance for Escape Is Death. Bye Bye Now
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Your Ignorance Will Be Your Own Downfall.

Celessa

Retired Moderator

Celessa

Okaerinasai - Welcome Home

I do apologize for my very late response, catching upon this thread, but you will have to excuse me, Mr. Shinsengumi. **Tips her hat** I never intended to post on here in the very first place, but I might as well bring out some of my very own thoughts upon this unique discussion, entirely as a whole. I'll most likely attempt to cut down most of my responses in order to swiftly draw out my contemplating points.

A hard earned distributing reward can actually help the community participate in better ways.

While this may have already been brought into the partial scope of the discussion beforehand, I would like to re-emphasize on the phrase and say that in order to make changes, we need to actually start making the community look much more appealing in a sense, and what better way than to actually start distributing reward options for those who are becoming more dedicated towards the site in an entirety. It may seem easy for these kind of words to apparently deliver, but I already also saw forehand that this process is much more complicated than one would have normally thought.

It has been proven many times before that by having specific members rewarded for "behaving appropriately" and showing outstanding examples of what many others should or shouldn't do as a likely drawn result, might help the community change its negative impacts somewhat, as a whole. The other scenario can also be said to react the exact opposite way, vice-versa, punishing members who do not bring to light into what Minitokyo should really be about, and that is to form a harmonized, friendly community anyone would love to be in. It may be not be the most supportive form of handling the situation, but like I have noted previous in many other discussions before about forums in particular, certain sacrifices are to be made for the better good of all communities.

I for one, will not state for changes to be instantly made as a result, but would rather imply that the suggestions drawn here do take priority for once, and actions to eventually be made in due time.

What about something as bold as reviving the somewhat "controversial" level system? What happened to the Skins Theme that was brought up in the Minitokyo Community back then? The Christmas Theme, The Valentine's Theme? Something that made people appealed towards the community more in every which way? Surely, the creators of Minitokyo Version Three should take a little step backwards and start all over, not about what to necessarily "remove" on what we already missed very much and questioned at from this very site in the past. Rather, we should currently focus on real improvements that Minitokyo Version Three was supposed to do, that will actually help facilitate the affected areas towards making it a better place. Someone mentioned before about threads needing the approval of moderators before they are to be shown. I say something should be done right away to make sure this actually happens, show the members that truly - we mean business. [For instance, I liked the idea of having threads optionally be picked and quarantined so that when the moderators arrive, they can review over the topics and deal with them as they see fit.]

And really, can anyone start actually imposing a minimum character limit on regulated forum posts for once? Pardons for my brief remarks. The only ultimate conclusion I have to really ponder is, if after all - Will the administrator be able to actually do something about this ever cycling situation? In the past, we kicked walls, screamed as hard as we could, and still nothing was to be done. There's no real point just sitting there, whining against other members and crying over spilt milk over the next several months to come. Do something about it. Show that some progress is actually to be made. In conclusion, actions really do speak louder than words in this case. That is all that really matters to me nowadays.

"No matter where you go, no matter how tough life may be, just remember that always in your heart, you will still be loved."

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Yu-huang

Yu-huang

The Jade Emperor

I am not such an old member so I cannot compare between how Minitokyo was then and how it is now. However, I agree with most of what shinsengumi wrote.

Quote by almina First, what a dark view of the forum !

Unfortunately, the bad overshadows the good.

Quote by alminaEspecially the one about grammar and spelling, especially since I don't claim to be that skilled with English and I suppose many posters whose native tongue isn't English are in the same spot than me

Out of 316742 (and still rising) members, 164831 are American and another 6562 are from UK. This means that at least 54% of its member should be proficient in English language. As for those of us who are not born into an English speaking countries; you can always use a dictionary if you're not certain of a word.

Quote by alminaWhy do all the threads have to be meaningful ?
Even if it's about a personal experience, I think that just writing it can be helpful.
Even it's a stupid game, isn't it important that at least a person has fun without making anything bad ?

I think you are right that not all threads needs to be meaningful and I actually find it nice to have those games. But when you see "Would you do this__" or "How do I know__" over and over again its gets annoying. But that only what I think.

Quote by flukeperhaps Elite Member's should have the ability to "Quarantine" threads so no one cne can continue to post on them if they are pointless and the "Quarantine" would bring notice to a moderator so they could make the final decision whether or not to close it.

I think it would be one of the best solutions. If the elite members had that ability it could considerably help the community as well as easing the job for the moderators.
Also maybe find the elite within the elite and promote them. This way you could have a few additional soldiers to your "army".

Quote by DeviletI think all the old threads should be closed, I know it'll take a long time, maybe there's a faster way. But I'm tired of people bumping old threads and some introductions even for some odd reason

Devilet is right; the old threads should be permanently close. I realize that going one by one and closing thread is too much time consuming, maybe you could have some kind of system that after x amount of time inactive the thread would automatically be closed or something.

Ultimately, words won't change anything.
A choice must be made between quality and quantity.
Either you want to have a better quality for the forum and maybe stricter rules or having a larger quantity of members and tolerate decrease in its content.

Lastly, Celessa I think that out of all the ideas and proposals that have been made yours is the best.

When Darkness Falls, All is quiet in the Mist of the Night.

Hiraku-San

Hiraku-San

::. Back in Singapore .::

Quote by Yu-huang

Quote by flukeperhaps Elite Member's should have the ability to "Quarantine" threads so no one cne can continue to post on them if they are pointless and the "Quarantine" would bring notice to a moderator so they could make the final decision whether or not to close it.

I think it would be one of the best solutions. If the elite members had that ability it could considerably help the community as well as easing the job for the moderators.
Also maybe find the elite within the elite and promote them. This way you could have a few additional soldiers to your "army".

i think that is what they are doing... Well but i have to say this giving to much people with excess power to things can also be bad..

Quote by Yu-huang

Quote by alminaWhy do all the threads have to be meaningful ?
Even if it's about a personal experience, I think that just writing it can be helpful.
Even it's a stupid game, isn't it important that at least a person has fun without making anything bad ?

I think you are right that not all threads needs to be meaningful and I actually find it nice to have those games. But when you see "Would you do this__" or "How do I know__" over and over again its gets annoying. But that only what I think.


dont get the perception wrong... it is not that all threads must be meaningful
is that poster nowadays are less content in making threads that are very meaningful and thoughtful... it is noticed that more threads nowadays centered on stuff that are very common thus the threads become very annoyed to read and there come a limit where some devoted members of MT give up on the forum...that is what i think shinsengumi is afraid of...
Well dont get me wrong i do think that those fun threads are very much needed to... but well if you going for fun just go to the chat lounge instead...


merged: 08-03-2006 ~ 11:36am

Quote by Celessa
What about something as bold as reviving the somewhat "controversial" level system? What happened to the Skins Theme that was brought up in the Minitokyo Community back then? The Christmas Theme, The Valentine's Theme? Something that made people appealed towards the community more in every which way? Surely, the creators of Minitokyo Version Three should take a little step backwards and start all over, not about what to necessarily "remove" on what we already missed very much and questioned at from this very site in the past. Rather, we should currently focus on real improvements that Minitokyo Version Three was supposed to do, that will actually help facilitate the affected areas towards making it a better place. Someone mentioned before about threads needing the approval of moderators before they are to be shown. I say something should be done right away to make sure this actually happens, show the members that truly - we mean business. [For instance, I liked the idea of having threads optionally be picked and quarantined so that when the moderators arrive, they can review over the topics and deal with them as they see fit.]


Well im so darn new...
it seems like its already minitokyo3.. there are other versions? Well i must say that the introduction of MT3 is poses more problems that the former... it somhow lost its appealing touch... sadly...

What happened to the Skins Theme that was brought up in the Minitokyo Community back then?

it looks like some of the wonderful stuff of the former minitokyo has been discarded...Why is that so?


a big THANK YOU to my lovely and humorous friend,the irresistable Devilet X-P
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Junkii member no. 16

Mordin

Mordin

The Wise One

Wow, I see people I have no seen in a long while. Hey shin! Hey princess! Hey Mel! Just like the great sages returning from the mountain after long meditiation :D The sign of disllusionment hits you when you start to want the good old days. It is hard to find good discussion without any pitiful dispute over pride in a difference of opinion. That sense of community back then is long dead, and the current fourm is no longer for us old timers, it is for the new blood, let them decide its faith.

I believe there is two reason for the cause of the condition we found ourselves in right now. First, the down fall of quality in this fourm started when MT3 was introduce. I had a major issue with the rules of the forum was fashion after, it was becoming oppressive in the way that only certain topics can be discuss without closing for lack of depth of words or without petty argument and insult, so that pretty much kill all of the odd ball and political religious theme. Afterall the weird and the odd are what makes anything interesting ;) We ended up with the most unharmful and nonthreatening topics like the "what ***** do you like? topics. The incentive to continue isn't that great.

Second, MT's management decided it was going to favor the artistic members only, because they wanted an artistic environment so naturally the forums are render useless except for those that discuss their latest wall techniques and ideas. It is their right and I don't blame them one bit, it is afterall what their goal was to begin with when they started this place. I accepted that fact and take my leave. So it is naturally that we aren't going to get any discussion, so people just move to other fourms. If you aren't an artist there really isn't any incentive to remain in MT. I guess a reward system can help as a ducktape kind of fix :) The way I look at it, as long there is people enjoying this forum, then it isn't ruin, we might not find the discussion here interesting, but someone is, and if they are entertain then what's there for us to complaint about. I guess that is what a wack out care free liberal would say :D

I am sorry shin that we couldn't finished that thesis paper project, so many of our friends have been MIA or just got fed up with the current environment and left. When mt want to turn into a practical place, a well organize company I should say, it lost its charm. I stay around to maintain some contacts with some friends, and that is it, I no longer have any aspiration or expecation to find anything interesting in the mt fourm. Good to see you and the Cel still hanging around. take care my friends.

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Thank you einna for the siggy :)

Celessa

Retired Moderator

Celessa

Okaerinasai - Welcome Home

Quote by Hiraku-sanit looks like some of the wonderful stuff of the former minitokyo has been discarded...Why is that so?

There wasn't a whole lot of wonderful stuff back then in Minitokyo Version 2, just a "better" community in my eyes, through my very own opinion. The third Version failed to tweak some other problems that already had existed before. Not only that, nothing was done to make Minitokyo a much more appealing place. The ease of functionality for once was removed, and many little things were taken away as a result. On top of that, little improvements were switched back in, but not to the point where members would feel happy overall with such changes in the factor.

Several people would have liked Minitokyo to start off with a whole brand new look. Avatars enlargened, the layout fun and alluring. Visually, little seemed to change.

I never actually had the chance to witness Minitokyo Version 3 transform personally myself, only the aftermath being away for so long, and also apparently missed out on the validated responses from its former community members that were actually stated afterwards, so I'll leave that personal question for somebody else to answer here in due time.

I can, however, briefly recall how Minitokyo was when I last been there nearly over a year ago.

A Little History

+ MT ran under a "level system" based upon how "committed" a member is towards its community, and normally by figuring statistics, defined the ranking and veteran status each member had generally represented overall.

However, [due to my recollection of the past] by unfortunate standards, several individuals found a way to "cheat" with this system, being able to inflate their level experience as a whole. This not only provided incentive for many newcomers to post up their artwork in dramatic fashion, but the "quality" that was attached to it by uploading consistently time and time again over a shorter time frame became far lower than its previous predecessors as a result.

Others may claim that the level system brought a "popularity" issue going on; the higher your level, the more "popular" you seemed to be. Not only that, several members opposed that such levels truly reflected how skilled one artist is in the artwork submitting process. As such, biased views were claimed over specific individuals, attacks were secretly to be made and a form of elitism was designed separating parts of the community from seemingly coming together.

Although there were negative impacts to manipulating the level system, the good part about it was that several talented artists would increase their competitiveness in order to try and reach to the top. Without a level system, many don't feel compelled to stay, and what's the point of staying without some form of actual recognition for once?

There are many other views I could have brought, but that would pretty much end up being a waste of time, and so I will drop this topic here in particular.

+ Friendlist

Before, there was only one way to add a member on in specifics, and that was by adding them through a friendlist option. That's about it. The friendlist event actually posed a greater problem, not only because it would present wallpapers that could be arguably declared as questionable submission material, but that others had found a way to "mass support their own friends" in order to draw off instant favorites towards any random member, no matter how skilled they may seem.

With that being said, its funny to mention the fact: the more friends you have, the better your chances to have your artwork submissions "fav'd," and in turn a greater possibility to be able to have it shown on the weekly favorite submissions due to the number of favorites that were to be accumulated and obtained that very week. Not only has it stirred up a major disagreement upon fellow veteran members, and "elitists" themselves, but created a rift of quality distribution that arguably could be noted of extreme controversy. The issues that landed in the favorites weekly submission was not hand picked back then by the moderators or through a judging panel, believe it or not. As long as you scored the most favorites that week, your artwork submission [aside from a scan] would automatically be displayed on top. This in turn leads to more favs., and more views because they would be presented clear right up on the very front page. It would then be proven that friends would tie into this entire faving equation, and as such, alongside with several key members reducing the meaning of "friendlist" because of the uncertainty of having "actual friends" in the picture, broke off into three smaller separate categories. Friendlist, Watchlist, Hotlist. Watchlist now replaced the once known Friends in the past. Friendlists just take the whole Friends definition a whole lot further.

+ Shoutbox

Back when the level system was implemented, once you reached Level 50, you could be able to access the shoutbox upon the bottom-right corner of the webpage interface. I'm not going to mention how it goes on from there, but you get the big picture.

+ Download Limits

If you wish to hear a little bit of humor, back then, Minitokyo had no restrictions for downloading limits. You could download as much as you want, whenever you want, slap as many favs as you wish, grow a signature as big as your backyard tree for all you cared, and yes, there were no such thing as credits back in the past. I could see the benefits of placing restrictions on most of these affected areas nowadays, but back then in Minitokyo, you could do anything. Well, almost. **Snickers**

In conclusion, the only things I really liked about MT3's latest improvements is the quick switch to using other member's customized skins. That idea was brilliant, but otherwise nothing else seemed too tacky or fancy. **Chugs on some root beer** Okay, I'm done with this random babbling going on. Whew!

Quote by MordinWow, I see people I have no seen in a long while. Hey shin! Hey princess! Hey Mel! Just like the great sages returning from the mountain after long meditiation :D The sign of disllusionment hits you when you start to want the good old days. It is hard to find good discussion without any pitiful dispute over pride in a difference of opinion. That sense of community back then is long dead, and the current fourm is no longer for us old timers, it is for the new blood, let them decide its faith.

Off topic: Mr. Mordin, as always, your presence is very welcomed here. **Bows in respect** Yes, the precious Princess is back! **Waves** Alo! Hello! Hi, did you miss me?

Anyways, I'm glad you took the time to post your very own thoughts. I appreciate the fact to see the Wise One back in action... I just feel sorry that you felt this very way and finalized your decision.

Personally, I too have moved on myself [I so love my office job, yes!], but since some ex-members of the community hinted me to come back to this site, and forcible dragged me here by awkward constant agitation, its fairly ironic yet fortunate enough to see you here standing on this very stage with the great sages of our time, once more. Before I wrap this whole subject up, I have one final thing to point out. I just can't help it, silly enough.

In my mind, I'm feeling some kind of new suggestion taking place. The ability to choose which pictures you wish to show up on your "main gallery" userpage? I already see problems just occurring from this suggestion as a result, but I highly doubt people will only just look at the top favorites alone.

What am I saying? I must apologize that I shouldn't be here, so you must forgive me. It's been a pleasure. Take care, Mordin. Hopefully we can settle the absent score with a cup of tea. **Giggles** Or perhaps even invent random words writing backwards and daring enough, forming it up on Wikipedia.

"No matter where you go, no matter how tough life may be, just remember that always in your heart, you will still be loved."

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Hiraku-San

Hiraku-San

::. Back in Singapore .::

Thank you Celessa for your information on the former MT...
so it seem dreadfully MT2 have had caused lots of chaos in the past while the new MT3 has nothing new just the trim down of problems...

(off topic: i feel weird being in a forum filled with people knowing each other >_< gosh i should just lay down on my first day at MT..)

a big THANK YOU to my lovely and humorous friend,the irresistable Devilet X-P
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No time to make a userpage....
Junkii member no. 16

Celessa

Retired Moderator

Celessa

Okaerinasai - Welcome Home

In a sense, Hiraku-san. I must apologize for my lengthy response, but you pretty much grasped the big idea like I intended it to be.

The second and most fearful phase being that, let's say, if improvements are really to be made on this site for once, will the community in return be able to live up to its new potential to make sure changes can actually be fulfilled? This next step is very crucial and vital as to how Minitokyo will eventually turn out. We could just dump the whole forum idea and revive the art community, but we need very good artists to step up to the plate as well, and that poses a problem. We need attraction.

Quote by Hiraku-Sani feel weird being in a forum filled with people knowing each other >_< gosh i should just lay down on my first day at MT.

Hehe, not a thing to worry. Oh, and welcome to MT! Don't worry about the guys. Mr. Shinsengumi, and Mr. Mordin were good friends of mine in the past, and I'm sure you'll be able to achieve that too as long as you stick around, no matter whichever community you go to. I definitely wish you the best of luck.

"No matter where you go, no matter how tough life may be, just remember that always in your heart, you will still be loved."

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Hiraku-San

Hiraku-San

::. Back in Singapore .::

lol dont mind me ;) ill just getting the hang of things here... just cramming myself into this community..

well Celessa i sincerely hope someone would pop out now and give a great suggestion on how to actract this great site :)

a big THANK YOU to my lovely and humorous friend,the irresistable Devilet X-P
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Junkii member no. 16

SilentMasamune

SilentMasamune

I'm all washed up. . .

Quote by MordinWow, I see people I have no seen in a long while. Hey shin! Hey princess! Hey Mel!

Good to see you too, Mordin! ^_^ You raise some really good points. Overtime, Minitokyo started to attract younger audiences. I remember a time when the community had a majority of 17-, 18-, and even 19-year-old members and beyond. Now for the most part we do see 14- and 15-year-old members, so they contribute to the particularly immature discussion that is partaken in the forum. It appears those members have the most fun in the forum, but when topics like these come up they may feel discouraged to continue posting.

Quote by CelessaAnd really, can anyone start actually imposing a minimum character limit on regulated forum posts for once?

First, I'd like to say it's nice to see you too! ^_^ Now for the critical part. . .even though we have so many good ideas in mind, if some of these features were implemented, members would indeed find ways to abuse those features. Unfortunately, though some people tend to be morons, they are rather smart at finding their way around things. Remember the old 64-character limit on gallery items? Members would spam by posting one whole letter at least 60 times or type at least 60 spaces after saying "nice." They could indeed abuse the minimum character limit as well.

I have more to comment, but I have to work now. >_<

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Hiraku-San

Hiraku-San

::. Back in Singapore .::

Quote by SilentMasamuneFirst, I'd like to say it's nice to see you too! ^_^ Now for the critical part. . .even though we have so many good ideas in mind, if some of these features were implemented, members would indeed find ways to abuse those features. Unfortunately, though some people tend to be morons, they are rather smart at finding their way around things. Remember the old 64-character limit on gallery items? Members would spam by posting one whole letter at least 60 times or type at least 60 spaces after saying "nice." They could indeed abuse the minimum character limit as well.

I have more to comment, but I have to work now. >_<

Just a thought that came to mind do you think this character limit doesn't count the quote text?

a big THANK YOU to my lovely and humorous friend,the irresistable Devilet X-P
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Junkii member no. 16

Devilet

Devilet

~ cyNicaLDeviL ~

Quote by CelessaWhat about something as bold as reviving the somewhat "controversial" level system? What happened to the Skins Theme that was brought up in the Minitokyo Community back then? The Christmas Theme, The Valentine's Theme? Something that made people appealed towards the community more in every which way? Surely, the creators of Minitokyo Version Three should take a little step backwards and start all over, not about what to necessarily "remove" on what we already missed very much and questioned at from this very site in the past.

We all loved the level system, and many of us were upset when it was removed. But unfortunately it was for a great reason, people were spamming to get leveled up. Perhaps if they bring it back, they'll have to really customize it. I understand we now have an Artisic Level and a Participation Level ... But I find them pretty useless. Artistic Level seems to be based on your favs, and how many items you have submitted, not including scans, and probably how many items made it to the elite or highlighted ... Either way, it's not a good solid thing to look at when going to people's pages, because it's not always right. As for the Participation Level, I don't understand it, I've been recently more active, and it's still at 42. None of these levels are actually encouraging, if anything, it makes you feel kind of lousy.

Oh yes, the Christmas theme, I remember that ... I agree on this part, we need more activites for us to participate in. Especially now I think more people are getting better at skin making.

Quote by MordinSecond, MT's management decided it was going to favor the artistic members only, because they wanted an artistic environment so naturally the forums are render useless except for those that discuss their latest wall techniques and ideas. It is their right and I don't blame them one bit, it is afterall what their goal was to begin with when they started this place. I accepted that fact and take my leave. So it is naturally that we aren't going to get any discussion, so people just move to other fourms. If you aren't an artist there really isn't any incentive to remain in MT.

It was always more about the gallery than the actual forums. They were always quite dead and spammy compared to the galleries, which is why I mostly ran to the galleries, because there was nothing worth replying to in the forums. But we need to focus more on the forums ... Afterall, it's kind of depressing seeing all the same old threads. I'm not saying all threads have to be serious, but it would be nice if people interacted more in the forums so we can lead more discussions.


There are a few things I like about the v3 ... the watchlist and the friendlist, while hotlist is merely useless in my eyes. Anyway, I think it was a good improvement, except there are some I see as friends and like their works, so it's a shame on that part ...

I noticed quite a few duplicate threads, as they are always an issue here. How about the mods pin some of the most popular and common threads? Such as "what is your favourite anime". This way, most members should see the thread already exist. I also heard you don't get credits anymore for getting replies in threads, so why not just pin those popular topics?

Anjhurin

Linguistics

Anjhurin

ARIA sanchou

To reply to Celessa's suggestion about choosing the pictures you want featured on your userpage, I reckon it should be highly possible to do it, since it is already the way the group galleries system works (this was implemented i think after doujinshi / indy art groups argued that it was contradictory to show the most faved scans, preferably ecchi of course, submitted by its members, when their point was to promote doujinshi).
Anyway, that feature could be implemented following the same pattern.


Quote by DeviletHow about the mods pin some of the most popular and common threads? Such as "what is your favourite anime". This way, most members should see the thread already exist. I also heard you don't get credits anymore for getting replies in threads, so why not just pin those popular topics?


Good suggestion, though you still have the issue of people wanting to create their own thread, in the way that they want to feel they're contributing by 'creating' (the creation of a thread might be a great 'enjoyment' for our average forumgoer... well at least for me, it is). Then if you stop them from creating because you've pinned all the usual threads ('fav' threads and the likes), you're again brushing away a good part of the MT fun :)


Just a little idea that struck me : since most of the MT denizens are underage (children i mean), their perception of the political / philosophical world has not been nurtured enough to a full bloom (though, i wonder if anyone can claim, adult or child, to have reached such a bloom). What i want to point is that they are more or less what we would consider immature. And when you think someone's immature, you tend to give him a childish speach / blame him, thus making him even more prone to childishness (i think).
So how to deal with that ? What as been sought is to emphazise one's ability, so that he gains self confidence, and reach a higher understanding of the world in general, by being confronted to RL problems (like you give your child more independance, even if forced onto him / her).
Applying that to MT would be something like that (okay, crazy idea here, don't know if it has been implemented) : have random members (i mean, any single member who has been on MT for more than 8 weeks or something, and who's participated in both galleries and forum, and read the rules / sticky threads) to be a MT moderator for a short period of time (1-2 week), under the care of senior and more experienced members (elites, 'real' mods).
Of course, abuse of power would lead to immediate demote to 'member status' again. As well as passivity in the mod work.

What would be sought by that is for every member to be aware of the MT problems, such as duplicate threads, ripping etc.... While one, as a member, can participate in making pointless threads / duplicates / rip / post off-limits scans, the same should have gained some maturity after having to clean the galleries / forums for a few weeks.
I don't know if that would be a solution to the forum problems in general, because i do understand there's a limit to this idea, which is the perpetual growth of MT (and its already huge number of members), but giving a few the opportunity to have an insight of the MT 'hell' moderatorship might help spread the 'community respect' around !
It would be necessary to appoint new mods (from the elites perhaps) to take care of the 'temporary' mods.
Another question is how to randomly pick members that fit the criteria (thought the member can be of help, the MT community is huge, and only a few members are really 'active').... though i reckon not appointing the eldest community members / most active would be better, since those are already aware of the issues at hand !


Quote by SilentMasamunemembers would indeed find ways to abuse those features


To continue on that, i once found a site that allowed you to get around the FDQ limit (thus allowing one to download as much as he wanted, just like MT2).

Spystreak

Retired Moderator

Spystreak

The Grim Reaper

Just to start off levels are dead gone and done with so says Sheqel himself. They won't be back and you can blame those that abused it. I liked the system just like alot of you did but it's those bad eggs that forced it's removal. On top of what Celessa said the levels also caused a great division among the community. Classifications like noobs were widely used for new members. Many of the higher leveled members felt superior towards others. The mods didn't like that much and gave it the axe. Which is why credits are now used. Similar things started to happen which is why credits are now hidden.

Quote by AnjhurinTo reply to Celessa's suggestion about choosing the pictures you want featured on your userpage, I reckon it should be highly possible to do it, since it is already the way the group galleries system works (this was implemented i think after doujinshi / indy art groups argued that it was contradictory to show the most faved scans, preferably ecchi of course, submitted by its members, when their point was to promote doujinshi).
Anyway, that feature could be implemented following the same pattern.

We've toyed with this idea in the past but unfortunately other more pressing matters have arose which demanded more attention. So don't think we haven't thought about this. You just might end up seeing it sometime in the future.

Quote by AnjhurinJust a little idea that struck me : since most of the MT denizens are underage (children i mean), their perception of the political / philosophical world has not been nurtured enough to a full bloom (though, i wonder if anyone can claim, adult or child, to have reached such a bloom). What i want to point is that they are more or less what we would consider immature. And when you think someone's immature, you tend to give him a childish speach / blame him, thus making him even more prone to childishness (i think).
So how to deal with that ? What as been sought is to emphazise one's ability, so that he gains self confidence, and reach a higher understanding of the world in general, by being confronted to RL problems (like you give your child more independance, even if forced onto him / her).
Applying that to MT would be something like that (okay, crazy idea here, don't know if it has been implemented) : have random members (i mean, any single member who has been on MT for more than 8 weeks or something, and who's participated in both galleries and forum, and read the rules / sticky threads) to be a MT moderator for a short period of time (1-2 week), under the care of senior and more experienced members (elites, 'real' mods).
Of course, abuse of power would lead to immediate demote to 'member status' again. As well as passivity in the mod work.

No we will not take on newer or regular members as junior mods. Why? Simply because we cannot keep tabs on them at all hours. We won't know when they are on. To what extent they have been using their mod powers. Basically the good is far out weighed by the bad. To undo the bad these "junior mods" have unknowingly or intentionally done would consume too much time of the regular mods. We have strict criteria for mods and we will not just take anybody even if it is for a short period. You don't need to be a mod to see the troubles running rampant in MT.

Quote by mordinI believe there is two reason for the cause of the condition we found ourselves in right now. First, the down fall of quality in this fourm started when MT3 was introduce. I had a major issue with the rules of the forum was fashion after, it was becoming oppressive in the way that only certain topics can be discuss without closing for lack of depth of words or without petty argument and insult, so that pretty much kill all of the odd ball and political religious theme. Afterall the weird and the odd are what makes anything interesting We ended up with the most unharmful and nonthreatening topics like the "what ***** do you like? topics. The incentive to continue isn't that great.

Oppresive yes with good reasoning. People were creating far too many favorite/verus threads. It got to the point as you are well aware that every discussion was being shadowed by this plague of favorites. It got so bad there was a crack down on them.

Quote by SilenMasamuneFirst, I'd like to say it's nice to see you too! ^_^ Now for the critical part. . .even though we have so many good ideas in mind, if some of these features were implemented, members would indeed find ways to abuse those features. Unfortunately, though some people tend to be morons, they are rather smart at finding their way around things. Remember the old 64-character limit on gallery items? Members would spam by posting one whole letter at least 60 times or type at least 60 spaces after saying "nice." They could indeed abuse the minimum character limit as well.

Indeed with every system there are flaws and loopholes. That can't be helped it's an inevitable. -_-
Ah yes the old character limits of old. Now they are gone. Now if you spam you get credits taken away. Punish the stupid reward the good. People posting small comments are just hurting themselves. Which is why a system also was implemented which prevented comments like COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLL from being made. These comments are truncated if one letter is used far too many times in a row. Which leads me to another point. People complaining about not being able to get credits. It's no wonder when so many post such quick and easy comments that take 5 seconds to make.

Quote by DeviletI noticed quite a few duplicate threads, as they are always an issue here. How about the mods pin some of the most popular and common threads? Such as "what is your favourite anime". This way, most members should see the thread already exist. I also heard you don't get credits anymore for getting replies in threads, so why not just pin those popular topics?

Problem with that is how would we determine the most popular. Post counts? How often people post in them? I don't think pinning would do much good. If people don't bother to search there wouldn't be much chance that they would notice the pinned threads. They probably would think we were making more rules or something. Not to say that some members wouldn't take notice. I'm just saying that it wouldn't be enough.


Fools You Can't Escape from The Grim Reaper. Your Only Chance for Escape Is Death. Bye Bye Now
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SilentMasamune

SilentMasamune

I'm all washed up. . .

Quote by Hikaru-SanJust a thought that came to mind do you think this character limit doesn't count the quote text?

Any text that is typed in the text box is included in the character limit. Yes, there were cases on MT in which members quoted others and then said, "I agree," both in the forums and the gallery and considered their post to be complete. It's considered spam in this case because you're just cosigning another member without any reason except to get out a quick post.

Quote by DeviletI noticed quite a few duplicate threads, as they are always an issue here. How about the mods pin some of the most popular and common threads? Such as "what is your favourite anime". This way, most members should see the thread already exist. I also heard you don't get credits anymore for getting replies in threads, so why not just pin those popular topics?

It's nice to see you're around too. ^_^ I would honestly have to disagree with this idea not because of what Spystreak stated but because other less popular topics may be drowned out, not to mention that too many pinned topics may flood the first page of that forum. Some members don't even make it past the first page, lol. With that said, even the newest of topics would be drowned out after 10 more threads are created under the aforementioned conditions. Technically, that's the case right now when you think about it.

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Hiraku-San

Hiraku-San

::. Back in Singapore .::

Quote by SilentmasamuneIt's nice to see you're around too. ^_^ I would honestly have to disagree with this idea not because of what Spystreak stated but because other less popular topics may be drowned out, not to mention that too many pinned topics may flood the first page of that forum. Some members don't even make it past the first page, lol. With that said, even the newest of topics would be drowned out after 10 more threads are created under the aforementioned conditions. Technically, that's the case right now when you think about it.


I agree ...the threads being layed out front is really sort repeated... i just have to spend time looking back at the other thread and these more opinionated threads usually contains no post... i guess some people nowadays are more interested on giving short quick posts instead of giving out their full opinionated....this such i believe really does piss other post makers who gave meaningful opinions who spend time posting but ended with other distasteful replys...

a big THANK YOU to my lovely and humorous friend,the irresistable Devilet X-P
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Junkii member no. 16

AWOL

AWOL

"SING IT EASY!"

Ack! That server timeout cost me that mouthful I typed just now.... I've gotta type it in all over again... :sweat:

It seems that all of us here are unhappy with the forums one way or the other; from duplicates, repeats, immature responses etc; However, I've noted that the problems are not only due to the people, but the prospect of a forum itself is questionable on its own, and I mean forums in general.

What is a forum?: A place where people share inforamtion, ideas and just share? That's exactly what it is. What's the problem with that? It means that anything goes; people who respond to their heart's content with no qualms of the level of 'lameness' it is. Immature, flamming, whatever, its up for the majority to decide, and any inapporaites get dealt with by mods; the purpose of their being; to eradicate all these uneeded items.

Specific problems of forums

People don't bother to read the rules!: Its a natural contempt. Humans try to evade what they feel it is not necessary, and over here, rules would seem to be the case. Though the consequences are there; like the loss of credits, people just don't bother too much. In fact, from what I found, many don't give a hoot about credits loss. The only time they feel the pain is when they don't have enough to download from the gallery. Duplictes happen not because the rules are not read, but being lazy, thread-makers prefer not to waste valuable time finding simillar topics, earnest upon the mods to simply close them. It takes less effort that way.

People don't reply to my responses!: A prime reason for people leaving the forums. People want to be heard, and there is little proof that the thread readers are reading your posts; coming from the lack of reference or quotes to your post. How many times do you have people commenting on how cool your blog is in a 'showcase your site' thread? Virtually none for most cases. Thus if they don't get any response, they'd rather shut up all together. I always feel that way when I'm all alone in a forum.

Certain threads are always on fire!: As mentioned; many flamming happen in the religion, political section of the forums. Why? Being opinated is one thing, but pricking on one's ideals will lead to confrontation. Senstitvities like religion is not to be discussed wthout tolerance training. How many of us have gone through that?

Lame threads get so many posts!: Threads like, 'what's your fav ______?' get a lot of attention, simply because they are easy to answer. Many are here just to make their forum post count look impressive, not to care about the real important issues. Immmature it may be, but many surf for fun, not knowledge. A sad fact.

In conclusion: Despite all this, we could sit here and talk all till our coffee evaporates and still bear no fruit to go along with it. All we are doing is making known the problems MT forum faces, but nothing will change unless everyone co-operates. How many will have the patience to read till here? Hardly, I guess, because that is what a forum is; and that'll never change.

Hiraku-San

Hiraku-San

::. Back in Singapore .::

ouch a major bummer having to rewrite.. what you just type to be shut down by the system... but i just have to say this i do know that we want to express our opinion and so forth... but note that not many members like reading pasages... We all really need to work on writing shorter long comments but still have the main pointers and ideas and advices that we want to reach to fellow MT users..

a big THANK YOU to my lovely and humorous friend,the irresistable Devilet X-P
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tanteikun

tanteikun

Kawaikunai!

I, for one question some of the points Shinsengumi has made.

While a set of rules for forum discussions are beneficial to the overall quality, it inevitably fails at two key areas.

a) Participant Awareness / Power Retrain - To this, I place blame partially on the guidelines. The guideline has been in place for over a year now, yet the results are not there. Why? People either do not read about them or forgot about them after a while. At first, my opinion lies on the same block as those of Shinsengumi, blame it on an user's immaturity or .... However, continuous violations have got to make you wonder whether the system is at fault here. Is it possible that members simply forgot about the rules? Are the rules too strict?

b) Leveraging Users - As Shinsengumi has mentioned, members of the community come from different backgrounds and have different talents. Leveraging all of them become a priority. A 11 year old might have different interest than a 30 year old. Most of the moderators look through the forums in a magnified glass, and declare one rule applies to everyone. Also, we should not dust off someone posts are "falsely informed" or "conspiracy theories", remember people can be easily influenced, and we would most likely not require people to conduct extensive research before making a post. Mistakes such as these can be forgiven. Again, witnessing the popularity of "Whats your favorite carebear" thread is not entirely a bad thing, it showcases the popularity of the thread (even though some of us do not really care). You do not want to force those members to discuss something which is out of their league, thus Shinsengumi, your "falsely informed" quote.

Really, we are trapped in the loophole here. As I understand, we want to create more threads condusive for discussion and eliminate those are not. Well the elimination part is easy, but what about the discussion levels? The only viable solution would be to recruit more members, and hopefully some of them will have a knack for intelligence.

I think the guidelines need to be rewritten, most of the other forums on the internet do not have peculiar rules as of those exist here and are able to maintain a discussion level that is on par with MT.

Rules need not be strengthened, rather they should be relaxed. This would allow members to post with more freedom, and be more creative. A comparison between a bowling ball and a bowl of sashimi might not be interesting at first, but if someone is able to observe creatively the correlation between the two and post on the thread, then it could be fun. Again, if the topic is shut down, you would never find that "Someone", and forever left you in a position to complain about the members of the forum.

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PAche

PAche

hoarder

WARNING:my post is extremely disorganised.so if you cannot stand people going a little out of point, don't read it. oh and i tend to have a weird mentality so if you find it unbearable to read stuff like that, don't read.

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i think it is only natural that the community disintegrated at some point in time. this kind of thing has happened many times - communities brought down by, ironically, their success. take venice for example. they had an incredible history from being just a marshland to a flourishing city-state. but because they got so rich, they got overconfident, self-centred and conceited.

i belive minitokyo started off humbly, as did all and every forum. but unlike other forums, who seem to prefer to stick to the default settings given to them by their hosts, minitokyo's admin and moderators improved her to such an extent that it has evolved to a much more user-friendly and complex system to accomodate the members. it is only logical that it attracted more members. but it is impossible to screen every member for people who will contribute effectively in the long term so there would inevitably be more people who merely spam and do nothing else. unfortunately, online and with a different name, it is easy for people to put up a facade and act in any way they want, which leads to them being bolder so long as they're hiding behind their computer's screen.they think that by being rough all, they are behaving in a macho manner, and is supposedly strong. this eventually leads to the uncouth behaviour that you refer to with such disdain.it is because there will always be people who think that way that there will always be inconsiderate actions, like flamings, double posting, leeching and such. also, people want attention. so they try to do so in all sorts of ways. some make wallpaper/submit scans with what appears to be the latest fad when it comes to favourites. others post sob stories and tell tales of broken relationships.

so what i'm saying is that, for a community like minitokyo, the introduction of that new generation of members cannot be prevented. and the way that these members behave are also only human. in society, you can see quite a few of the same characters, only it is less rampant because in real life, you can go to jail while here, you simply get banned at the most.

i think the posts like "my bf/gf did _____" are all very similiar and if the authors bothered to check out the other threads, she or he could have a very comprehensive summary of what to do in his or her situation.thing is, most people don't bother.they get too emotional to think straight.i myself have posted in such threads a few times but i got bored of repeating myself.and i think that is the problem with such threads. it is not because they are "lame" and useless, but because they repeat each other continuously. so i'd like to challenge your point that such threads are a waste of server space. everyone needs an avenue to ask for advice, and if they are comfotable asking people online so be it. but its the fact that they copy each other that i think if someone were to compile all the numerous threads of breakups/failed relationships, we'd have a pretty thin book. thin because the scenarios reoccur. maybe having a "what would you do in a case of a breakup" thread would be better, where everyone pour in their opinions and the people who seek those opinions actually read through the posts and sensibly sort out the ones relevant to their case. that way that little thorn in my flesh could just drop out.

it feels so good to actually be able to type so much for a thread.shin, you hold the honour of being the first person in my life to have more than 3 words in one post that i consider bombastic.nice vocab XD so yea...

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summary
i agree with you that more and more members are getting intolerant and rowdy.but there really isn't anything anyone can do about it, other than themselves, especially because this is all just a virtual world. so don't get too irritated by it.instead, entertain yourself!i read stupid posts, and from there, form new ideas of how a human thinks(unless of course it is too short) :\ however i disagree with your statement that all relationship threads are irrelevant to our society.people need advice and if they want to get it from people whose reliability is questionable, thats their purogative.just read other posts first in case what you are asking has alreay been covered, albeit under a different title. rules are a must in every community, and relaxing them would only lead to utter disorder.not very nice.so rules are here to stay(or they should be).but i must second your opinion that many of our members have very superficial outlook to life and minitokyo. friendwhoring isn't new, and i think its scary that people just ask out of the blue "wanna be my fwend?lets be friends!" and add you to their friendlist.makes you wonder what they're up to.

oh and i'm a self proclaimed lazy person and i got to the end of your lengthy post shin XD and i'm a regular poster in the "what do you think of the av above you" thread.cos its interesting to see how others think of what you decided to be the face/thing to represent you.

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Hiraku-San

Hiraku-San

::. Back in Singapore .::

To Pache
Yes true every community will one day be a forgotten one.... I believe the admin and moderators wish to keep this community alive as long as possible... I believe one way they are doing that is keeping their staff as new and reliable as possible... Once in a while their moderators is either replaced or added...The moderators and elites are being chosen carefully and thoughtfully... they do not choose someone who are boot-licking or just for the sake that someone wants to be an elite or mod..

I must say that part you wrote about bold people flaming etc, it make me laugh... lol i remember countlesss times when someone wrote something inappropriate or became abusive any moderator would straightaway deal with that person.. it all takes one report or a moderator happening to see it XD... Yes it is not impossible to screen all members but the most obvious abusers are always being put down as soon as possible... But of course regular members must also do their part in keeping the community clean.... One way is to report whatever bad things that are happening... which i feel very few members are doing... most i feel, would ignore and let it be... Thus this would be another problem..

Quote:
however i disagree with your statement that all relationship threads are irrelevant to our society.people need advice and if they want to get it from people whose reliability is questionable, thats their purogative.just read other posts first in case what you are asking has alreay been covered, albeit under a different title. rules are a must in every community, and relaxing them would only lead to utter disorder.not very nice.so rules are here to stay(or they should be).but i must second your opinion that many of our members have very superficial outlook to life and minitokyo


First of all...i dont find it right that they said that relationship thread is irrelevant Well i know that people may need to seek advice in any form possible... But welll i dont think it hurts to look at 4 weeks old threads... they are at about 3 page or more... but if you really need that kind of advice i believe searching them would not be a fuss for you..No i believe he said not every member, but most members have a superficial outlook in life and minitokyo... Which is sadly true just look at the amount of members MT have and the amount that are posting and submitting.... most of them are leechers and nothing more...
Lol and if people come to you and ask you to be your friend... You are at liberty to say no and yes... a good way, is to kindly reject them in your post stating your many reasons why you dont want to add.. I believe if you do that those so called "friends" would think twice before doing something stupid..

(actually i have more to write but i am running out of time... ill rewrite or add a little later)

a big THANK YOU to my lovely and humorous friend,the irresistable Devilet X-P
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Junkii member no. 16

candy-chan

Retired Moderator

candy-chan

I didn't know the existence of this thread :o

Well I'm always glad to see folks discussing the real problems. I read most of the first page and I have to say I agree with most of what was said. Allthough I'm a bit lazy to read all of what has been said up to now, I'll still point out my two cents. hehe

To me, most of the forum here should not even exist. I would personally close the whole Chat section and raise the bar for creating interesting threads in the Cultural sections. People can chat in the chatroom, and keep the intelligent and somewhat lenghty discussions in the forums.

Hiraku-San

Hiraku-San

::. Back in Singapore .::

Quote by candy-chan
To me, most of the forum here should not even exist. I would personally close the whole Chat section and raise the bar for creating interesting threads in the Cultural sections. People can chat in the chatroom, and keep the intelligent and somewhat lenghty discussions in the forums.

Whether we want it or not... there are still members of the younger age group... forums that depicts serious discussion would not entertain them... Of course we want more "serious" members but still we need to keep MT status as a free Community for members of every different age group... thus your idea is unwise..

a big THANK YOU to my lovely and humorous friend,the irresistable Devilet X-P
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Hiraku-San

Hiraku-San

::. Back in Singapore .::

Quote by chaossnakeim just going to say that i think the 2nd version of minitokyo was the best. i dont know why they changed it. perhapes to MAKE people stay? whatever. that's just how i feel

Correct me if i am wrong but i believe that there are more people here in MT... and just recently i have seen lots of old members being active agan.... not to mention more new members... Of course as a result a number of rules broken like reviving old threads, ETC... So why is NT2 better then MT#?

a big THANK YOU to my lovely and humorous friend,the irresistable Devilet X-P
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