Killing: When is it justified?

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ShinjiIkari32

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Not sure if this topic has been discussed, but in your opinion, when do you feel it would be justified to take the life of another?
Self defense? Revenge for another life lost? To protect a loved one?

Take a quote from any anime and replace a word vital to the sentence with "pants", for instant comedy..
"I am the answer to all who cry out for pants!"-Goku, DBZ
"Those pants were more than just armor! Unit 01 has broken free of the pants that bend it to our will!"-Ritsuko, Evangelion
"Unfamiliar pants.."-Shinji, Evangelion

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Quote by ShinjiIkari32Self defense?


no

Quote by ShinjiIkari32Revenge for another life lost?


no

Quote by ShinjiIkari32To protect a loved one?


no


never. it can't be just to end anybodies life. think about.. you don't just end a single person's life if you killed someone, but you'd ruin the lives of his/her relatives, friends, etc.
killing living things is bullshit.

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despite all my rage i am still just a rat in a cage

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  • Sep 09, 2004

Kagutsuchi

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I believe killing can be justified... or maybe I should word it differently. It's never "right" to kill, but I believe there are situations where the benefits outweigh the costs.

Like you mentioned, I find it acceptable for people to take lives in defense of themselves or their loved ones. I hold a lot of respect for soldiers, policemen and others who fight for a cause... they are the martyrs that carry the burdens of war to save the many of us at home.

  • Sep 09, 2004
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yeah..

great..

if noone had the idea to kill anybody other, these "great martyrs", as you call them, would never become martyrs..

by the way, kagutsuchi, are you just stupid or do you really believe that "benefits outweight the costs" thing?


whom i really admire are the people that didn't join the army, even they knew that they would be killed for not joining.. (like in WW II in austria/germani; etc.).
life, and death, is a difficult thing.. you take lives to live (e.g. when killing an animal for meat), and you take lives to protect live.. is life worth living?

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despite all my rage i am still just a rat in a cage
despite all my rage i am still just a rat in a cage

words by billy corgan

  • Sep 09, 2004

misl3d

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To defend ourselves...and to get revenge...if someone has hurted us, almost killing us......i will wait, no matter the time. Isn't right but... see our mother almost killed, and ourselves....is not easy to forget.

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........................... I will get my revenge. Sooner or later...And i can wait for years...................

  • Sep 09, 2004

Kagutsuchi

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Quote by rinCewindif noone had the idea to kill anybody other, these "great martyrs", as you call them, would never become martyrs..

You call me stupid, but your concepts are more idealistic than mine. It's in human nature to be selfish and competitive, and therefore unreasonable to even imagine that one day people will stop killing. We like to think that people can be rational, but at the core we are NOT.

As for the benefits vs. cost... let me ask you an extreme example. If your family were seriously and immediately threatened, would you stand by and watch them die? The "benefits" of preserving lives that are meaningful to you will be worth a lot more to you than the "cost" of having one less murderer out in the world.

You can't honestly tell me that you would be so completely passive and anti-homocide that you would not consider killing as an option in a situation like that. Wake up, the real world is not so sugar-coated like the one you're imagining.

  • Sep 09, 2004

Miroku4444

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Quote by rinCewindyeah..
great..
if noone had the idea to kill anybody other, these "great martyrs", as
you call them, would never become martyrs..
by the way, kagutsuchi, are you just stupid or do you really believe
that "benefits outweight the costs" thing?
whom i really admire are the people that didn't join the army, even
they knew that they would be killed for not joining.. (like in WW II in
austria/germani; etc.).
life, and death, is a difficult thing.. you take lives to live (e.g.
when killing an animal for meat), and you take lives to protect live..
is life worth living?

Ok rinCewind, lets get serious. Killing in defence is totally jusifyied. If someone breaks into your house and is about to kill you, and will stop at nothing less, what are you going to do just let him kill you...please!! Also what if they killed you son or daughter. if I had kids and someone killed my own, there be hell to pay. Don't get me wrong, i dont believe in killing for revenge, spite..etc I just believe its justifyied in extreme circumstances. If you keep insulting ppl , like you did with Kagutsuchi, I will report you.


Self defense?=Yes
Revenge in general =no
To protect a loved one, or revenge a loved one=yes
for no reason=no
for spite=no

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ShinjiIkari32

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Very interesting opinions, thus far. Though, as unfortunate as it may be, I feel Kagutsuchi is being more realistic in this situation. I think it's as deeply rooted in human nature to kill, as is the need to preserve. Idealistic points of view are great things to have, but humans are complicated creatures.

While I know it's an unpleasant way to think of things, rinCewind, the 'benefits vs. costs' concept may be the most reasonable way of thinking in any of the above situations.

Take a quote from any anime and replace a word vital to the sentence with "pants", for instant comedy..
"I am the answer to all who cry out for pants!"-Goku, DBZ
"Those pants were more than just armor! Unit 01 has broken free of the pants that bend it to our will!"-Ritsuko, Evangelion
"Unfamiliar pants.."-Shinji, Evangelion

Kevorkian

The Worst

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I am all for killing off rapists, child molestors, etc. But there are other occations that I can think of when people desrve to die slow.

athiest, faceless, ageless, shapeless, mind elevates into states i'm weightless, spines shake when they in the wake of greatness

  • Sep 09, 2004

Vagrant123

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I'm sorry, but being a partial Darwinist, and Christian as well, I find killing necessary. God gave us the right to kill so as to feed ourselves and dominate as the best species on this planet -- if you don't kill, you don't eat. Every time you eat vegetables -- you killed a plant! Every time you eat meat -- you killed an animal! Get over it, we aren't autotrophs.

As for killing sentient/intelligent beings, that becomes different.

Quote by rinCewind

Quote by ShinjiIkari32Self defense?


no

I dare to question you on that one. Since when is it wrong to defend yourself? If you're gunning for me -- I'm gunning right back at you.

Quote by ShinjiIkari32To protect a loved one?


no

So wait a minute. It's wrong to kill the jerk threatening to kill your wife and children? Your logic is.... where? Typically the people who will threaten to kill someone will do it. Which is why I think there are honorable thieves and dishonorable thieves.

Quote by rinCewind

Quote by ShinjiIkari32Revenge for another life lost?


no

This is the only statement I agree with you on rin -- Revenge is not the solution. Because of my Christianity, I say this, "Final judgement rests in God's hands, not your own." All self defense or defending loved ones is considered justified killing by both Darwinian standards and Christian standards.

Quote: by the way, kagutsuchi, are you just stupid or do you really believe that "benefits outweight the costs" thing?

You are an idealist. Get with the world, dude. There is no freaking solution anywhere without some sort of loss. The problem comes with the one with more benefit.

Once again -- I will repeat my true belief. Killing for food, self-defense, or loved ones is justified.

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  • Sep 09, 2004

AceGunman

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Nothing gives you the right to end another persons life, cuz they lived their lives the only way they knew how to live it, but that doesn't mean people kill others anyway.
For me, it's never right or justified to end another persons life, besides if you kill someone, that only makes you the same as the one whom you killed, doesn't matter if it was in self defence, since you choose to end that persons life, as he would have done with yours. People never have the right, yet they do it anyways, that's the way of the world 8P

pyreleaf

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Wow.... nice replies. It's nice to see a lot of people really think.. ^u^

Killing is never justifiable. the reason why we get the perception that it is justifiable is on the case of self-defense. It's not really justifiable, it just lessens the gravity of the offense a bit. Killing someone in self-defense is milder than killing someone out of the sheer voluntariness of the act. But they're both the same, you are still taking the life of somebody else which we do not have the right to do.

As a Christian, we were taught to use all means to subdue evil except death. because killing is one of the ultimate sins... so my argument in self-defense here is that, if you are defending yourself, you must exhaust all means to subdue the person without killing him. Just hurt him till his life hangs on by a thread. but do not use the excuse that he's trying to kill you that's why you immediately have the right to kill him. That would be wrong. Because if we all have that mentality, half of the world's population would be wiped out. It's always about being pro-life even if that life is of the person who is trying to kill you.

Self-defense= acceptable but not really justified
Protection of a loved-ne= same as with self-defense
Revenge= definitely, definitely not

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  • Sep 10, 2004

iN1Ti4LdR1fT3r

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im not really into the killing justified stuff.....as long as justice is served im open to anything.^^

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  • Sep 10, 2004

Miroku4444

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So if someone is about to kill me and the only way to stop this is to kill that person, Im suppost to let that person kill me.....Thats just bullcrap(pardon my french).

Another situation, what if someone broke into your house and was terrorizing you. Then goes over towards your daughter and is about to stab her. and the only way to stop it is to shoot the criminal or stab him yourself(no other weapons around). So what are you suppost to do let your daughter die...yeah right.

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pyreleaf

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Quote by kastelic4444So if someone is about to kill me and the only way to stop this is to kill that person, Im suppost to let that person kill me.....Thats just bullcrap(pardon my french).
Another situation, what if someone broke into your house and was terrorizing you. Then goes over towards your daughter and is about to stab her. and the only way to stop it is to shoot the criminal or stab him yourself(no other weapons around). So what are you suppost to do let your daughter die...yeah right.

Yes.. only and only if there really is no other way can you kill another person. Only if there isn't anything you can hit him with to distract him or maybe you can just stab him on the leg and arm and run away. Since the murderer wouldn't be able to move much, you can run away an/or call the police 911 or something... Only if there isn't a choice left can we really kill a person. or if we were trying to defend ourselves and then we stabbed him without the purpose of killing him but it was just an accident, then that would be better. As long as we don't voluntarily do it, with our whole consent to actually kill so long as we have the greater good in our minds then we can hurt the person.. hehe, hurt 'till he cannot move anymore. But not really kill. Only if that is your only choice left i think..

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  • Sep 10, 2004

Vagrant123

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That strangely reminds me of Monty Python and the Holy Grail...

If you can disable him, all the better. He gets to go to jail, and in the end, you feel better. Also reminds me of Terminator 2, where Arnold shot both the guard's legs to disable him. >_>

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  • Sep 10, 2004

ShinjiIkari32

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Quote by Vagrant123I'm sorry, but being a partial Darwinist, and Christian as well,

Heh..Is that possible? Most Christians I've encountered shun the idea of Darwinism.

Anyway, let me establish this here and now. Try not to bring your religion into this. I feel that when you follow a certain religion, you're pretty much believing what you're being TOLD to believe. This is about being a human being. Not a christian, a catholic, a jew..Whatever. Please try and leave your religious opinions out.

Take a quote from any anime and replace a word vital to the sentence with "pants", for instant comedy..
"I am the answer to all who cry out for pants!"-Goku, DBZ
"Those pants were more than just armor! Unit 01 has broken free of the pants that bend it to our will!"-Ritsuko, Evangelion
"Unfamiliar pants.."-Shinji, Evangelion

Vagrant123

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I'm having a mid-death crisis.

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Yeah, I mix the two. I think they can intertwine if you think about it.

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"I'm stuck on bandages because bandages are stuck on me."

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  • Sep 10, 2004

Miroku4444

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Quote by pyreleaf

Quote by kastelic4444So if someone is about to kill me and the only way
to stop this is to kill that person, Im suppost to let that person kill
me.....Thats just bullcrap(pardon my french).
Another situation, what if someone broke into your house and was
terrorizing you. Then goes over towards your daughter and is about to
stab her. and the only way to stop it is to shoot the criminal or stab
him yourself(no other weapons around). So what are you suppost to do
let your daughter die...yeah right.


Yes.. only and only if there really is no other way can you kill
another person. Only if there isn't anything you can hit him with to
distract him or maybe you can just stab him on the leg and arm and run
away. Since the murderer wouldn't be able to move much, you can run
away an/or call the police 911 or something... Only if there isn't a
choice left can we really kill a person. or if we were trying to defend
ourselves and then we stabbed him without the purpose of killing him
but it was just an accident, then that would be better. As long as we
don't voluntarily do it, with our whole consent to actually kill so
long as we have the greater good in our minds then we can hurt the
person.. hehe, hurt 'till he cannot move anymore. But not really kill.
Only if that is your only choice left i think..

i agree with that, try to find another way to subdo them. I would never kill them just cause i wanted them dead or that was a easier way to end the situation. I'm just saying that sometime its the only alternative left.

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Electrastar

Electrastar

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I think revenge is just plain stupid...It will never heal or solve anything, so killing for revenge is wrong for me. I can only see it justifiable when it is to protect someone you love or to protect your life if it is threatened....that's all.

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ObsidianJoy

ObsidianJoy

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I dont think its "right" to kill

1:Self Defense - Theres alternatives, if worst comes to worst and there is NO other choice, than I guess so, but im still sketchy on that.

2:Revenge - You would be no better than who your killing. If you hate them so much would you really want to sink to there level and be just like them?

3:Protection - Just like Self Defense.

  • Sep 10, 2004
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have to agree with vagrant's first post. also hurray for his use of the word autotroph.
also,

Quote by ShinjiIkari32

Quote by Vagrant123I'm sorry, but being a partial Darwinist, and Christian as well,


Heh..Is that possible? Most Christians I've encountered shun the idea of Darwinism.
Anyway, let me establish this here and now. Try not to bring your religion into this. I feel that when you follow a certain religion, you're pretty much believing what you're being TOLD to believe. This is about being a human being. Not a christian, a catholic, a jew..Whatever. Please try and leave your religious opinions out.

i don't think all religious people qualify as the "believing what they're told to believe" category. i'm not personally religious, but i think there are a lot of people out there who choose their religion for its beliefs, not who have their beliefs because of the religion. i'm sure there are many mindless sheep out there, but also many religious folks who think for themselves.

  • Sep 10, 2004

ShinjiIkari32

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Quote by Lost1i don't think all religious people qualify as the "believing what they're told to believe" category. i'm not personally religious, but i think there are a lot of people out there who choose their religion for its beliefs, not who have their beliefs because of the religion. i'm sure there are many mindless sheep out there, but also many religious folks who think for themselves.

I never said ALL religious people were that way. Let's use this.."Holy Bible" thing I hear so much about as an example. I don't know the exact wording of the text, as I have never read it, so please excuse me if I'm a bit sketchy. I hear that somewhere in this book, it's taught that homosexual people are EVIL AND wrong, and that God hates them, or words to that affect. I often hear many people justify their hate toward homosexuals by saying "It's in the bible!"...Who the hell cares? If you had never read the bible, would you feel the same way?

...This is WAY too off topic now. My apologies.

Take a quote from any anime and replace a word vital to the sentence with "pants", for instant comedy..
"I am the answer to all who cry out for pants!"-Goku, DBZ
"Those pants were more than just armor! Unit 01 has broken free of the pants that bend it to our will!"-Ritsuko, Evangelion
"Unfamiliar pants.."-Shinji, Evangelion

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killing is never justified but sometimes they are not choose. it's him or me :(

  • Sep 10, 2004

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