nothing, and I mean nothing gives you the right to take another person's life...Yet, have you ever been in such a situation? Do you honestly know how you'd react if a loved one is stripped away from you by some stupid loser/drug-addict/drunk/etc?
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"In the name of God impure souls of the living dead shall be banished into eternal Damnation...Amen"
"Don't believe in yourself, believe in me, who believes in you!"
"Believe in yourself. Not you, who believes in me. Not me, who believes in you. Believe in you, who believes in yourself!"
- Sep 11, 2004
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hm..to my morals I would say: self protection, protect a loved one *only when ur loved one is facing a weapon who can kill/harm her/him*, when u are hired and it is for a good purpose.
the law says no! u can kill a person!
but to my morals it totaly depends on the situationThis signature violates the signature guidelines, thus it has been removed.
- Sep 11, 2004
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I respect everyones opinions even if they differ from my own, but I suspect none of you here has ever killed another person (directly), so how can you be so sure of what would have happened had you been placed in such a situation? You can't, despite what you believe. One's beliefs are always eclipsed by reality, either you want to or not.
Vagrant, you speak of fear, so your saying that the fear that you feel of losing those close to you isn't really fear?
I don't blame peope for their actions, they had their reasons, just as you do for the feeling that you have to protect the ones close to you. So if you kill someone to protect your loved ones, what gives you the right to call others by names like "killer" for not doing the same thing you did? A killer in you doesn't make a killer in them, if they don't do that which you dared not do, how can you blame them for their reasons?Well anyways, in short; You do what you feel is right, as others do what they think is the right thing to do. If it involves killing, then it's your opinion if it's right or wrong, as they have their own minds to judge for themselves with. A lot of questions are merely answered by our opinions, resulting in them beeing but empty words.
Well that's enough poetic stuff for today, I'm off to bake some cookies. :)
- Sep 11, 2004
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I don't know what I would do when faced with haveing to kill someone. I think my instinct to protect my loved ones would kick in, and I Indeed would kill that person to protect my family.
I just curious ace would you protect your family, and kill someone if that was the only way of protecting them???? maybe??
- Sep 12, 2004
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Lord_Tensai_III
A Gentleman and a Scholar
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This is one of those topics that absolutely no one can ever agree on... that's why I like them so much. XD
Anyway, I believe that killing can be justified, but only in certain and rather limited cases. I know this'll sound awkward, but I believe one can only kill if they are killing for the "preservation of life." Almost oxymoronic, I know.
Self-Defense (of either yourself or a loved one) is a prime example. When it comes down to either your attacker or yourself, I believe you have every right to take your opponents life. Despite anyone's natural qualms against killing, the human instinct for self-defense is an extremely powerful one. Some of the time you defend yourself without really thinking about it.
Killing in terms of capital punishment is another example, even though it can become sketchy at times. Once again, it's all about the preservation of innocent lives. Killing someone who is a threat to their own society is just an attempt to prevent similar cases or more victims at the hand of this criminal. Now some people have suggested just putting them away for the rest of their lives, but even in a prison setting, the truly vicious criminal is still a threat to their guards and other prisoners. You could do solitary confinement, but I'm not a big fan of that. It seems more like torturing the guy more than anything else. It's probably more humane just to end his life. The only time I would think of it as sketchy if there isn't enough evidence to convict the guy beyond a shadow of a doubt. Killing an innocent person would be a catastrophe.
Now, killing for revenge? No. Assisted suicides or mercy killing? Not really. I can understand the "being humane" argument there, but we always have painkillers (sorry if that's a little cold- I've never believed in ending your own life though.) Wars? It really depends on the rational or reasoning behind it. If destroying one country will save the lives of others, then I believe it falls back under "preservation of life".
But I do think that killing should be avoided when it can. In all seriousness, even if you do kill someone in self-defense or some other justifiable reason, you've still killed someone. No matter how "right" you were, it's still not a good thing. You'll have to live with that for the rest of your life.
Now I do want to make one last remark on something. A couple of people who are against killing have suggested apprehending people or attackers to the point of "beating them till they are almost dead" or something of the sort. I don't really think that's realistic. Drawing from my training in Karate, my instructors have always pressed upon me that in order to defend yourself successfully, you have to stop your attacker quickly. If you’re aiming to stop, not kill, it is more likely that you will not prevent them from killing you, because your enemy obviously has no aversion to killing. When it's kill or be killed, kill. If you don't, you’re still screwed anyway.
(Sorry about the length. Hope I didn't bore you all to death)
- Sep 12, 2004
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Lord_Tensai_III, Of all the ppl who posted so far you make the most sense.
- Sep 12, 2004
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Quote: Vagrant, you speak of fear, so your saying that the fear that you feel of losing those close to you isn't really fear?
Fear is a double-edged sword. I was talking about the inhibiting fear -- the fear that is utterly useless. The good fear is the kind you act upon -- Being brave is not doing something you know you can do, but rather, doing something because you're afraid of it. Often you'll find that if you scare someone -- They'll be angry. Anger is a byproduct of fear. Fear is the inhibitor as well as enabler.
So, excusing the rant, fear the inhibitor should be ignored. The fear of losing ones you love is exactly the fear you want. It is an enabling fear.
Quote: A killer in you doesn't make a killer in them, if they don't do that which you dared not do, how can you blame them for their reasons?
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=kill
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=murder
There IS a difference between the two.
I know what my instinct would be, and I don't doubt that I'd be afraid, but the fear would cause anger, and I would attack.
- Sep 12, 2004
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Killing?
Certaintly.Murder?
No.
- Sep 12, 2004
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Quote by kastelic4444
I just curious ace would you protect your family, and kill someone if
that was the only way of protecting them???? maybe??
I know most of the stuff I write is pretty boring, but still I've already answered that question in this thread.
Quote by AceGunmanI never said that I wouldn't do something about it, I only said that it wasn't right, but there is always alternatives to killing, but if there really was no other way as an example then it would be pretty obvious that I would try to save the one whom I care the most for (obviously not the killer).
Vagrant, the point was that you blamed people for their fear, but I just said that fear can make us do many things, like 'forcing' us to do things like different forms of killing as well as saving our own skin before our own friends, imo fear is a stupid emotion 8P
Resorting to a dictionary? Instead of thinking for yourself what's right, you go into detail what certain english words mean instead? Hm, oh well. If you think you are so sure then it's fine I guess, as long as you do what you think is right I can't blame you for anything.
Lord_Tensai_III pretty much shares my opinions, pretty much what I have tried to say in this whole thread :D Altough the only thing I've really been trying to say is that ending the life of another is never right, cuz you don't posses that right. Of course one might think that killing a certain person must be done, but that doesn't mean it's justified or right imo.
- Sep 12, 2004
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I don't think I could ever kill someone under any circumstances. If my own life were to be in danger, I'd rather die because I wouldn't want to live knowing that I've killed someone. If the life of my loved ones were to be threatened, I still would not have the ability to kill someone for them. I don't think they'd want me to live with that burden and nor would I expect them to live with the burden for me. If that seems cowardly to you... so be it. I would exhaust every other idea I could think of to prevent the deaths.
Sorry about the idealism but I believe there just has to be another way.
- Sep 12, 2004
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i think some of you don't see the difference betweeen "what you do if someone wanted to kill you" and "can killing someone be justified"..
most of the shit you write is about the situation of killing/murdering someone, and not about the fucking simple question if killing could be justified..
despite all my rage i am still just a rat in a cage
despite all my rage i am still just a rat in a cagewords by billy corgan
- Sep 12, 2004
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If you think of it ethically, there are more justifications to kill someone than if you think of it legally. In the end, the courts will decide.
- Sep 12, 2004
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Self defense and family defense
- Sep 12, 2004
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Quote: Resorting to a dictionary? Instead of thinking for yourself what's right, you go into detail what certain english words mean instead? Hm, oh well. If you think you are so sure then it's fine I guess, as long as you do what you think is right I can't blame you for anything.
I suppose that's supposed to be some sort of insult. The fact that I used the dictionary to display what I find right and wrong is showing what I think. Just as Oykotinim said just before your post, Killing - Certainly. Murder - No. I was just displaying the difference between the two.
- Sep 12, 2004
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Quote by rinCewindi think some of you don't see the difference betweeen "what you do if
someone wanted to kill you" and "can killing someone be justified"..
most of the shit you write is about the situation of killing/murdering
someone, and not about the fucking simple question if killing could be
justified..
The point with things like these are that people discuss about their different opinions, isn't it more fun that way than just reviewing a bunch of "no" 's and "yes" 's? I honestly don't take this to seriously, more like doing something while I'm a bit bored. I don't know if your'e beeing serious or not, but one shouldn't get to worked up :)Quote by Vagrant123
I suppose that's supposed to be some sort of insult. The fact that I
used the dictionary to display what I find right and wrong is showing
what I think. Just as Oykotinim said just before your post, Killing -
Certainly. Murder - No. I was just displaying the difference between
the two.
I never insult other people, so clearly I didn't mean to insult you, if you were offended in any way, I apologise. -_-
The thing I ment to say was that you should do what you think is right, while not listening to much to other people, that's the thing thats important. If you live a life without doubts, then I consider you very lucky, I seem to encounter a bunch of doubts in my life, so... ^_^'- Sep 12, 2004
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Quote by YunikinsI don't think I could ever kill someone under any circumstances. If my
own life were to be in danger, I'd rather die because I wouldn't want
to live knowing that I've killed someone. If the life of my loved ones
were to be threatened, I still would not have the ability to kill
someone for them. I don't think they'd want me to live with that burden
and nor would I expect them to live with the burden for me. If that
seems cowardly to you... so be it. I would exhaust every other idea I
could think of to prevent the deaths.
Sorry about the idealism but I believe there just has to be another way.
Sometimes you have to do things you dont like, its called life.You may have to live with a burden, but at least your loved one will be alive. :) I think they would want to live with the burden, its called careing for someone with all your heart. I'm glad im not your loved one
Idealism shouldnt get in the way of doing whats right...thats wack. :\- Sep 12, 2004
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wen u kill sombody who deserves to b killed
Winds of Flowing Wings
::credit to Toxictea23::- Sep 12, 2004
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Quote by AceGunman
Quote by rinCewindi think some of you don't see the difference betweeen
"what you do if
someone wanted to kill you" and "can killing someone be justified"..
most of the shit you write is about the situation of killing/murdering
someone, and not about the fucking simple question if killing could be
justified..
The point with things like these are that people discuss about their
different opinions, isn't it more fun that way than just reviewing a
bunch of "no" 's and "yes" 's? I honestly don't take this to seriously,
more like doing something while I'm a bit bored. I don't know if your'e
beeing serious or not, but one shouldn't get to worked up :)
Pwnt!
How many times do we have to tell u waht discussion is nubcakes.. it cant be decided if something is just or not with Yes and No... Gah!!!Quote by WolfWood83nothing, and I mean nothing gives you the right to take another person's life...Yet, have you ever been in such a situation? Do you honestly know how you'd react if a loved one is stripped away from you by some stupid loser/drug-addict/drunk/etc?
and as for whether or not i would be able to kill if faced witha kill or be killed situation.. theres no doubt. Ive broken a guys jaw for feeling me up outside a bar, i know that sounds bad but he had been warned i wasnt like that and to back off and leave me alone. i know thats not killing someone but the fact is that its not to much further to killing. i didnt spend all that money ona carry and conceal license to be afraid to use my colt if i have to. im not a person you want to back into a corner. XD
Nihonjin kanojo boshu-chu ^.^ Serious inquiries only plz!!
- Sep 13, 2004
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I'm glad I have some support in my idea for being pro-self-defense.
People who believe life-preservation is more important are being idealistic and foolish. Sure, it's a nice idea, but put into practice, it can get you hurt or even killed yourself. Characters like Kenshin and Vash are badass and all, but in real-life their philosophy isn't strong...which is why I identify more with the old-style Kenshin and Knives.
Just think...you are at an ATM at 1am and as you turn, you are confronted by a knife-wielding assailant. What do you do?
You can 1) Submit and die, or 2) Fight for your life
Killing the assailant is your only assurance that you will not be re-attacked by the same person. You can knock them cold if possible, or break their legs, but this is hardly a safe measure.
- Sep 13, 2004
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Quote by kastelic4444
Sometimes you have to do things you dont like, its called life.You may have to live with a burden, but at least your loved one will be alive. :) I think they would want to live with the burden, its called careing for someone with all your heart. I'm glad im not your loved one
Idealism shouldnt get in the way of doing whats right...thats wack. :\To you, killing having protected someone you love is right. Wouldn't it be right to have protected the one you love without having killed anyone at all? Wouldn't it be better that way? It's really not impossible. From that perspective, wouldn't you think that killing is the easy way out in that situation that includes many negative outcomes?
Caring for someone with all your heart is also caring for their heart, not just life. Ever wanted to protect someone's heart from emotional scars and pain? By caring with your heart, you actually have to use your heart, and within that heart lies the utmost of compassion and mercy. It can be done.
- Sep 13, 2004
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Lord_Tensai_III
A Gentleman and a Scholar
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Quote by Yunikins
Quote by kastelic4444
Sometimes you have to do things you dont like, its called life.You may have to live with a burden, but at least your loved one will be alive. :) I think they would want to live with the burden, its called careing for someone with all your heart. I'm glad im not your loved one
Idealism shouldnt get in the way of doing whats right...thats wack. :\
To you, killing having protected someone you love is right. Wouldn't it be right to have protected the one you love without having killed anyone at all? Wouldn't it be better that way? It's really not impossible. From that perspective, wouldn't you think that killing is the easy way out in that situation that includes many negative outcomes?
Caring for someone with all your heart is also caring for their heart, not just life. Ever wanted to protect someone's heart from emotional scars and pain? By caring with your heart, you actually have to use your heart, and within that heart lies the utmost of compassion and mercy. It can be done.Perhaps from an emotional standpoint, Yunikins. But certainly not from a physical standpoint. If your a 4th degree black belt or some other equivalent then, yes you probably have all the skill and strength necessary to subdue someone for certain without killing them. (That's actually a fighting ideal that I praise-the best of fighters can often defeat you with less painful or non-lethal moves. It shows a maturity and humbleness on their part)
But for the other 99.5 % of the human race, the only sure way would be to kill the guy. Too much mercy and either you and your loved one get a knife in the back on your way out.
My point is this, I guess. If you can take a guy out without killing him then DO IT FOR GOD'S SAKE! No point in killing the bastard for fun! If not, then you'd better be sure that he or she is not getting up when your done, because it's your life on the line if they do.
- Sep 13, 2004
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i guess no kill can be really justified... :\\
- Sep 14, 2004
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Wrestling is highly useful in close HtH situations for non-lethality. Get the guy on the ground, get his weapon, put him in a headlock, and keep the weapon at his throat if he tries something.
However, it's clear enough to say that most situations will not be easy enough to be able to pull non-lethal moves. Hell, I even learned how to break someone's neck in wrestling. Not that I did that, but I was supplied with the information. (Partially why the move is called a "Full Nelson" after Babyface Nelson)
- Sep 14, 2004
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Death is not justifyed for us humans....
we have no authoroty to decide the destiny of anyone´s life.- Sep 17, 2004
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