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Who make the choice? You or God?

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I have ask 4 people. I kind find it kind interest. This might be stuip question but at the same time is not. I don't know how this question came to my head. One of the four people that I ask was my little brother. He the only one in my familiy that beleive in God and go to church. He was not happy. That I can tell you. Nor, did he gave me answer.

The question is:
Who make the choice for you to die? You or God.

My answer:
I, only I make the choice how I live and when to die. Whatever God like it or not. This is my life even he is the one that gave me life. The day I was born (or should I say create) belong to me. God shouldn't messing with my life. How he like if I mess with his. Yeah, I know in the bible is say something about God create all things and the day we born. He already set the date for us to die. To me, is just wrong. If God do decide is time for me to go, I fight back even I know I going to lose. I fight to the end.

If I knew that God will be the one determine my life from start to the end. I rather be long dead. I don't mind live the life I live. Hard, sad, happy, drama, you name it. This is what we call life. But when death put into play. That another story.

Note: I might offen some of you, forgive me. I just stating how I feel and my opinion.

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Mnemeth

Mnemeth

Rider of the Currents

Given the fact that God gave us free will to choose our own paths (I know this is not widely accepted by all religions but I am coming from my point of view) then we choose what we do and when we die. It is my belief that if he truly gave us free will then he would not insult his creation by removing when he sees fit regardless of how much pain it may cause him.

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embershadow

embershadow

Quincy Archer Hates You

Seeing as I don't believe in God, the obvious answer from me would be that it is your choice to decide when you die.

But even if we were brought into existence by a God or some other deity, I still think it should be our choice to decide how and when we die (if we decide to make that choice), and also how we live. Like Mnemeth said, we have free will--if there is a God, then I'm sure God gave us this free will for a reason. This is why I find religious fanatics that think everything is up to God are silly; you have minds, people, you can use them.

I'll also use this opportunity to say, though, that I don't think suicide is a good idea. There are few things worth actually killing yourself over. Most unhappinesses you can get over with a little effort.

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Quote by kayo04I, only I make the choice how I live and when to die. Whatever God like it or not. This is my life even he is the one that gave me life. The day I was born (or should I say create) belong to me. God shouldn't messing with my life. How he like if I mess with his. Yeah, I know in the bible is say something about God create all things and the day we born. He already set the date for us to die. To me, is just wrong. If God do decide is time for me to go, I fight back even I know I going to lose. I fight to the end.

If I knew that God will be the one determine my life from start to the end. I rather be long dead. I don't mind live the life I live. Hard, sad, happy, drama, you name it. This is what we call life. But when death put into play. That another story.

Well, that is an admiral speech, I'll grant you that. However, you are trying to fight something that is simply unchangable.
"I think the Law of Gravity is wrong. Therefore, I will keep throwing this apple into the air. I do not care if the Law of Gravity says the apple will never float. No matter how long it takes, I will toss it into the air until I can no longer toss it into the air. Even though I know this apple will never float, I will fight Gravity until the bitter end."

Even if you feel that you have "cheated death", truthfully, you did not. It was simply not your time to die, according to God. What about the victims of 9/11? Did they have the choice to live or die? Also, whether you are a believer in God or not, and no matter the choices you make in life, you fit into His plan. There is only one reality, after all. That is my belief as a Christian.

Free will is the choices YOU make for your life, not the choice of how your life turns out. However, the former greatly affects the ladder.

himura088

himura088

~Smile

There is fate. But choices are still made by you..
Whether you choose to study or work hard, or choose to slack.. eg.

Quote by blueink
Well, that is an admiral speech, I'll grant you that. However, you are trying to fight something that is simply unchangable.
"I think the Law of Gravity is wrong. Therefore, I will keep throwing this apple into the air. I do not care if the Law of Gravity says the apple will never float. No matter how long it takes, I will toss it into the air until I can no longer toss it into the air. Even though I know this apple will never float, I will fight Gravity until the bitter end."

Even if you feel that you have "cheated death", truthfully, you did not. It was simply not your time to die, according to God. What about the victims of 9/11? Did they have the choice to live or die? Also, whether you are a believer in God or not, and no matter the choices you make in life, you fit into His plan. There is only one reality, after all. That is my belief as a Christian.

Free will is the choices YOU make for your life, not the choice of how your life turns out. However, the former greatly affects the ladder.

hehehe thanks. Where did that qoute, is so cool. I never hear it.

You know what you say is true about those victims of 9/11. That why I ask the quesiton. Those victimes 9/11 didn't have a choice, did they? God thought is time for them to go, right. That why they pass a way. Was that God plan? do he (God) have the right to do that? or the Saint? of course, I not asking about the Saint I asking about God, himself and his postion. If they (victimes) did, they would have been alive?

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Quote by embershadowwe have free will--if there is a God, then I'm sure God gave us this free will for a reason. This is why I find religious fanatics that think everything is up to God are silly; you have minds, people, you can use them.

I do believe in God, and I completely agree with this. Though, I'm not a religious "fanactic" by any means.

Hey..Everyone is going to die sometime. That's just life. However, if while I'm asleep, someone comes up and shoots me in the head in such a way that I die instantly (it is possible to be shot in the head and live), I won't exactly have much say in the matter. If you get bitten by Australia's blue-ringed octopus, which is about the size of a golf ball, you will die within about five minutes unless you get some serious medical attention--even then, it isn't certain that you'll survive until it's been about 24 hours--but you can fight it all you want. There are some situations that you don't really get a say in whether you die or not. Yeah, it's nice to think that you can "cheat" Death and fight it every step of the way but it's not possible in every situation.

Omikami

Omikami

Ruler of the Plane of Heaven

Quote by blueink "I think the Law of Gravity is wrong. Therefore, I will keep throwing this apple into the air. I do not care if the Law of Gravity says the apple will never float. No matter how long it takes, I will toss it into the air until I can no longer toss it into the air. Even though I know this apple will never float, I will fight Gravity until the bitter end."

Even if you feel that you have "cheated death", truthfully, you did not. It was simply not your time to die, according to God. What about the victims of 9/11? Did they have the choice to live or die? Also, whether you are a believer in God or not, and no matter the choices you make in life, you fit into His plan. There is only one reality, after all. That is my belief as a Christian.

Free will is the choices YOU make for your life, not the choice of how your life turns out. However, the former greatly affects the ladder.

Interesting example but completely different. You can't compare a law with something arbitrary. Since humans have "freewill" they can just take their life away and by doing so, they "cheated death" (though I disaprove of suicide).

So tell me, if I take a gun and decide to kill anyone I see fit to die does that make me a god too? After all, I'm deciding who is going to die next and who isn't as well as how. <don't worry I'm not going to kill anyone
Then again you could say that it is my fate to kill those people (god decided and I must do it) but then what happend to that thing you call "freewill"?

Quote by himura088There is fate. But choices are still made by you..

According to modern definition you can't change this thing call "fate" but you can change destiny.
Fate is an outcome determined by an outside agency acting upon a person or entity; but with destiny the entity is participating in achieving an outcome that is directly related to itself. Participation happens wilfully otherwise it's fate.

Quote by kayo04hehehe thanks. Where did that qoute, is so cool. I never hear it.

I basically took what you wrote and replaced the context with something more people might be able to relate to. ;)

Quote by kayo04You know what you say is true about those victims of 9/11. That why I ask the quesiton. Those victimes 9/11 didn't have a choice, did they? God thought is time for them to go, right. That why they pass a way. Was that God plan? do he (God) have the right to do that? or the Saint? of course, I not asking about the Saint I asking about God, himself and his postion. If they (victimes) did, they would have been alive?

Yes, He does have the "right" to. This is the punishment mankind received when Adam and Eve first sinned. "For dust you are to dust you shall return." Genesis 3:19

You may think this is harsh coming from the all-loving God, but when he put that tree in the Garden of Eden, he warned them not to eat from it. The tree is proof of the free will he granted humans. They disobeyed, knowing there would be consequences.

Quote by OmikamiInteresting example but completely different. You can't compare a law with something arbitrary. Since humans have "freewill" they can just take their life away and by doing so, they "cheated death" (though I disaprove of suicide).

Being a Christian, the existence of God is not arbitrary. Quoting myself, "No matter the choices you make in life, you fit into His plan." Suicide is no exception, only a false sense of "cheating death." Those who were close to the person that commited suicide will learn something from the event, possibly causing them to think of what they can do so this does not happen to others. See? There is still a purpose to that choice.

Quote by OmikamiSo tell me, if I take a gun and decide to kill anyone I see fit to die does that make me a god too? After all, I'm deciding who is going to die next and who isn't as well as how. <don't worry I'm not going to kill anyone
Then again you could say that it is my fate to kill those people (god decided and I must do it) but then what happend to that thing you call "freewill"?

He did not decide you must do it, He simply knows you are going to. If those victims were not meant to die according to God, they would not have. Truly, there are plenty of things beyond your control that can stop you from killing those people. "Oh no, I forgot to bring bullets!" Your shots may even end up being nonfatal.

Quote by OmikamiAccording to modern definition you can't change this thing call "fate" but you can change destiny.
Fate is an outcome determined by an outside agency acting upon a person or entity; but with destiny the entity is participating in achieving an outcome that is directly related to itself. Participation happens wilfully otherwise it's fate.

There is only one reality. You can speculate what could have been, yet the past is the past, just as the future will be the past. Therefore, there is one future and only one future. We do not know what the future holds, but God does! He knows the choices we will make, and each one has a distinct purpose.

Quote by blueink

Quote by kayo04You know what you say is true about those victims of 9/11. That why I ask the quesiton. Those victimes 9/11 didn't have a choice, did they? God thought is time for them to go, right. That why they pass a way. Was that God plan? do he (God) have the right to do that? or the Saint? of course, I not asking about the Saint I asking about God, himself and his postion. If they (victimes) did, they would have been alive?

Yes, He does have the "right" to. This is the punishment mankind received when Adam and Eve first sinned. "For dust you are to dust you shall return." Genesis 3:19

You may think this is harsh coming from the all-loving God, but when he put that tree in the Garden of Eden, he warned them not to eat from it. The tree is proof of the free will he granted humans. They disobeyed, knowing there would be consequences.

I don't think is harsh. I respect your belife and what you say. I admit I was once a Christians, when I was kid (age 6-12). I kind of understand where you getting at.

What I don't understand, he create us gave us life. Not only that also our personally, looks, etc. . . Than all of suddenly he dicide to take it away like it was nothing. Almost like a game. Even what Adam and Eve did what they did. Eat the apple. He (God) assume everyone will be that way. So, it is his right to do that whatever he likes with/without our approval? Is not our choice we are just a tool for him. (sound to me is like that other question "do we exist") Even he gave all of those thing (personally, looks, family, etc. . ).

Which bring me to the next quesiton is God prefect? If I could remember correctly the answer was...... "yes". ~_0 (I understsand Saint also play apart of this). No one is prefect, right? Correct, but he (God) is not a person.

Quote by blueink
He did not decide you must do it, He simply knows you are going to. If those victims were not meant to die according to God, they would not have. Truly, there are plenty of things beyond your control that can stop you from killing those people. "Oh no, I forgot to bring bullets!" Your shots may even end up being nonfatal.

If he know, then why did he create us/person in the first place? Even though he knew what we doing was wrong, he didn't stop. He still make more.

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I sorry blueink -_- if what I say offen you or seem as I am attack you any way. Let me know. I want to let you know. I not. That is not what I intend. Is just that I don't beleive him and don't trust him with my life or any one. I guess you can say is egoist.
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embershadow

embershadow

Quincy Archer Hates You

Actually, maybe I wasn't quite clear--the only way that you can really decide when or how you die is if you commit suicide. But what I really mean is that there are things that you can choose, things that are up to humans, not to "God". A victim of a murder was not a victim of God; he (or she) was the victim of another human, as a result of a choice that another human made. The course of your life is all up ot you, and you do have the power to choose your own death, if you really want to make that choice.

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tobiast88

tobiast88

No patience for fools.

Wow, compare a proven law to a fictitious god. That's smart. How about "I'll fight the proofs against the existence of god until the bitter end", like you religious people do? When you die, you don't "choose" anything. You're dead. You don't choose to be born either. It's random, there is no purpose and no choice. Why must you people have some illusion of control or care?

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God is our creator and we must love him for that and follow his word, but we are the one who choose how we live or die. In the book of life he has what all people have done good or bad not and if the loved him and not when they are going to die. The reason for that is becasue God gave us a choice to either follow his word and follow his son Jesus Christ or do what we like. And when we die the dead wait until the Jesus Christ comes for his people which are the ones who followed Gods word living or dead. And all the non believers stay and suffer the apocalypse.

tobiast88

tobiast88

No patience for fools.

Quote: God is our creator and we must love him for that and follow his word, but we are the one who choose how we live or die. In the book of life he has what all people have done good or bad not and if the loved him and not when they are going to die. The reason for that is becasue God gave us a choice to either follow his word and follow his son Jesus Christ or do what we like. And when we die the dead wait until the Jesus Christ comes for his people which are the ones who followed Gods word living or dead. And all the non believers stay and suffer the apocalypse.

*headclutch* Where to start? How about proving all of this insane crap?

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Haohmaru77

Haohmaru77

Stray Wanderer

Christianism says that God gave us freedom and that freedom was the greatest gift for us. So basically, all choices are chosen by us, humans... perhaps god's plans include our choices... who knows?

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tobiast88

tobiast88

No patience for fools.

And Invisible Pink Unicornism says that the Purple Oyser of Doom and his minions nibble your kneecaps for all eternity if you are bad and refuse to worship the Invisible Pink Unicorn. The Invisible Pink Unicorn gave us all freedom and that freedom was the greatest gift for us. So basically, all choices are chosen by us, humans... perhaps the Invisible Pink Unicorn's plans include our choices... who knows?

There. I pasted your inane post with another religion. Why is that one wrong according to you?
I just don't see why you religious people have to be reassured constantly that goddy is watching over you. Get a clue: if goddy exists, why doesn't he do things to help us, since he's omnipotent and omnibenevolent? Why didn't he prevent September 11th or Bush gaining the throne and wrecking our country and global image of our country? Free will, you'll whine. Hate to break it to you (no, wait, I don't) , but if goddy was all the things you ascribe him to be, then he would intervene: he's omnibenevolent, remember? So either goddy is impotent and can't help, or he's just cruel. Great goddy.
And explain why your goddy is right, instead of the Invisible Pink Unicorn of the 50000 egyptian gods.

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Quote by kayo04What I don't understand, he create us gave us life. Not only that also our personally, looks, etc. . . Than all of suddenly he dicide to take it away like it was nothing. Almost like a game. Even what Adam and Eve did what they did. Eat the apple. He (God) assume everyone will be that way. So, it is his right to do that whatever he likes with/without our approval? Is not our choice we are just a tool for him. (sound to me is like that other question "do we exist") Even he gave all of those thing (personally, looks, family, etc. . ).

I think of it more as a test than a game. I read a quote not too long ago that goes, "If you love something, set it free. If it comes back to you, then it's yours." How can you know if someone truly loves you if they are not able to choose you over someone else? If you are the only option, then it is not true love. I believe that God gave us free will so that we may form a true mutual bond with Him. Forceful love proves nothing, after all. That is why we are not a "tool" either. A tool does not decide what work it does.

We are descendants of a sinful race. You say that "God assumed everyone would be that way" but He does not assume, He knows. And we all have sinned at one point or another. However, we are not without hope. At the time humanity fell into sin, God promised He would send salvation, which He did, who is none other than Jesus Christ. We can ask God for help through Jesus and we will be redeemed.

Quote by embershadowActually, maybe I wasn't quite clear--the only way that you can really decide when or how you die is if you commit suicide. But what I really mean is that there are things that you can choose, things that are up to humans, not to "God". A victim of a murder was not a victim of God; he (or she) was the victim of another human, as a result of a choice that another human made. The course of your life is all up ot you, and you do have the power to choose your own death, if you really want to make that choice.

As I said before, there are plenty of so-called "random" factors that can foil a murder attempt. Read my last post again, and you will see I presented enough thoughts to refute your statement already.

Quote by tobiast88Wow, compare a proven law to a fictitious god. That's smart. How about "I'll fight the proofs against the existence of god until the bitter end", like you religious people do? When you die, you don't "choose" anything. You're dead. You don't choose to be born either. It's random, there is no purpose and no choice. Why must you people have some illusion of control or care?

The idea of gravity is still a theory, due to lack of further proof. Can you see gravity? Gravity is no more concrete than my religious ideals apparently seem to be, thanks.

I am happy to have a purpose to my life. The thought of my existence ending when I die, that is uncomprehendible. Why would such a complex and well-designed world just happen to come along "randomly"? Do plots for stories, movies, the creation of music all come along "randomly" as well? Our world is much more intelligently designed than the things I mentioned, so why would the world be random, but not the things we engineer ourselves? Why must you have the illusion of randomness and lack of purpose? All I see in posts such as yours are narrow-minded, blind refusals of believing what I believe. Please, try and poke holes in my arguements. Otherwise, you are wasting your time.

Quote by tobiast88I just don't see why you religious people have to be reassured constantly that goddy is watching over you. Get a clue: if goddy exists, why doesn't he do things to help us, since he's omnipotent and omnibenevolent? Why didn't he prevent September 11th or Bush gaining the throne and wrecking our country and global image of our country? Free will, you'll whine. Hate to break it to you (no, wait, I don't) , but if goddy was all the things you ascribe him to be, then he would intervene: he's omnibenevolent, remember? So either goddy is impotent and can't help, or he's just cruel. Great goddy.
And explain why your goddy is right, instead of the Invisible Pink Unicorn of the 50000 egyptian gods.

Wow, start my reading my posts and looking for the answers? I'm sick of copy+pasting.

tobiast88

tobiast88

No patience for fools.

I'll be happy to refute your arguments, which have been used n times anyway and still been refuted. Yawn.

Quote: The idea of gravity is still a theory, due to lack of further proof. Can you see gravity? Gravity is no more concrete than my religious ideals apparently seem to be, thanks.


So gravity is "just a theory"? What holds your body on the ground, magic?

Quote: I am happy to have a purpose to my life.


Me too, thank you.

Quote: Why would such a complex and well-designed world just happen to come along "randomly"? Do plots for stories, movies, the creation of music all come along "randomly" as well? Our world is much more intelligently designed than the things I mentioned, so why would the world be random, but not the things we engineer ourselves?


Things that are simple complexify over time. It's called evolution. You were a baby with simple thoughts and needs: sleep, hungry, etc. Now you're older and have more complex thoughts and abstract notions. The Earth formed from randomly floating asteroids which crashed into each other, combining and forming Earth as we know it now. Simple organisms became the animals we know now. Etc, etc.

Quote: Why must you have the illusion of randomness and lack of purpose?


Rndomness, yes. Because that's the way it's majoritarily proven to be. Lack of purpose, no. 99.9999999999999 etc of Universe has no purpose in being, except being pretty, since until now there is no proof of extraterrestrial life. So the remaining vanishingly small percent has a purpose? No. Why should we have a purpose in the Universe? We're puny.
HOWEVER, I believe that humans have a purpose, and that is to evolve, to discover, to become better while learning. That is my purpose. Yours is to enforce your unproven and contradictory beliefs on mankind because a 2000 year old book says so. Madness.

Quote: All I see in posts such as yours are narrow-minded, blind refusals of believing what I believe.


Well, me too. Except I have proof to back my beliefs up. It's called conflict, and sadly, most of the wars on this planet have roots in "not believing what you believe".

Quote: Please, try and poke holes in my arguements. Otherwise, you are wasting your time.


I believe I have. Go choke on a bible now, you bore me.
And you haven't answered my question about why your goddy is the real goddy. Typical.

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Quote by blueinkI think of it more as a test than a game. I read a quote not too long ago that goes, "If you love something, set it free. If it comes back to you, then it's yours." How can you know if someone truly loves you if they are not able to choose you over someone else? If you are the only option, then it is not true love. I believe that God gave us free will so that we may form a true mutual bond with Him. Forceful love proves nothing, after all. That is why we are not a "tool" either. A tool does not decide what work it does.

I not sure what you mean by here. I not that bright. Are you saying that on the day we die. We should allow ourself go. Cause God say is time for us to go. As long we believe this, we are closer to GOD.

I still confuse about the tools. If we are not tools than what are we? What make is ok, for him to take our life away when we still want to live? Becasue God say so? Gaving someone life, choice, and everything.When he get bord or think is time. He set it free/give up. ~_0 Isn't that sound like a game. A player can choice whoever they want to play. If they can not beat the enemy or the game. They either gave up (not know what ahead of us) or keep trying. In this case, we are the God. We create a player. His/her name and personal to whatever. When is time, we let it die. Or should I say sent it free ~_0

Quote:
We are descendants of a sinful race. You say that "God assumed everyone would be that way" but He does not assume, He knows. And we all have sinned at one point or another. However, we are not without hope. At the time humanity fell into sin, God promised He would send salvation, which He did, who is none other than Jesus Christ. We can ask God for help through Jesus and we will be redeemed.

I thought eveyone was born sin. They have to work they way up. Exactly, how much? Even in the bible stated something how to gain his trust and love. How we know the bible is telling the truth. There are still missing pieces. (Yeah, this can go the other way around). To what extend we have to work our way up.

what you say about God don't assume. He should know what I thinking and what I say? I mean those that against/don't beleive him. Why he don't do anything about it? He allow it. Still he create more. until everyone is full or hate and distorying the world (or should I say the end of the world). That when he decide to gave it to us. Like he did on that day. Can't remember the how it goes is about 40 night and 40 day in the boat. Even he did decide to wipe the world again and create a new one. The new world will be the same. Still full hate, cause trouble, so on. Just look what going on today. Is same thing as he did. Drown the world for 40 night and 40 day. People and everything is still turn out the same as before.

Quote by Haohmaru77Christianism says that God gave us freedom and that freedom was the greatest gift for us. So basically, all choices are chosen by us, humans... perhaps god's plans include our choices... who knows?

Question, this might off the topic. I have to ask. Then why in the bible stated we can't merry the people the same sex? What about those people that are suffering? Those that have money waste them as it nothing. Cause they have money. They can get a way with it.

I agree freedom is greatest gift. Exactly, to who? everyone? If so, then why someone don't feel that way? So is this, what God intend? I don't think so but again maybe because he testing. whatever we can live the life he have choice for us. But gain, what choice we have when he already set the date we die on the day we born?


To what extend can God need to test us? Have he test eough? Does he enyjoy what he doing and what he seeing? Want us to believe him when all he want is to see how long can we go on and be faithful to him?

Speaking of myself, I can't stand it. It drive me nuts. It tear me apart to see and hear thing that I could never image. Everyone has a choice, that for sure. The person that really take control is he. I won't allow it. Is my life that he deal with not only mine but everyone. If he has the power than why he allow history repeating itself? Is because of us? I disagree.

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I no long have a bible or nor read it. So I can really can't stated the word out. I only remember what I learn and gain when I was kid.

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The reason it states that is becasue we were created by God that way and thats the way it is also because to continue humanity. And same sex is just nasty. And God has not set the date for our deaths the only date he has is when Jesus Christ will come for us. But after that there will be no more history only heaven or hell and he has to test to see which ones follow him out of love or the ones that follow out of fear of the apocaypse of for benefit. So anything that is in the bible has to happen no matter what anyone does to stop it.

Omikami

Omikami

Ruler of the Plane of Heaven

Quote by blueinkBeing a Christian, the existence of God is not arbitrary.

I wasn't referring to god only to laws of nature.

Quote by blueinkIf those victims were not meant to die according to God, they would not have. Truly, there are plenty of things beyond your control that can stop you from killing those people. "Oh no, I forgot to bring bullets!" Your shots may even end up being nonfatal.

Oh, I'm sorry! I forgot that god intervene with human matters. <sarcasm
By the way who would be as lame as not having bullets for his gun?

Quote by blueinkWe do not know what the future holds, but God does!

That would be shame if he didn't, wouldn't it?

Quote by blueinkI think of it more as a test than a game. I read a quote not too long ago that goes, "If you love something, set it free. If it comes back to you, then it's yours."

I hope you do realize that it would be a pointless test since he knows everything.

Quote by blueinkWe are descendants of a sinful race.

Speak for yourself.

Quote by blueinkAs I said before, there are plenty of so-called "random" factors that can foil a murder attempt. Read my last post again, and you will see I presented enough thoughts to refute your statement already.

Yes, I can see the overwhelming proof; "Oh, my! I forgot my bullets."

Quote by tobiast88So gravity is "just a theory"? What holds your body on the ground, magic?

For as much as science can prove, things could be held down with invisible elastic strings.

Quote by tobiast88Things that are simple complexify over time. It's called evolution. You were a baby with simple thoughts and needs: sleep, hungry, etc. Now you're older and have more complex thoughts and abstract notions. The Earth formed from randomly floating asteroids which crashed into each other, combining and forming Earth as we know it now. Simple organisms became the animals we know now. Etc, etc.

If this happened by a random chance, something else could have happened instead. Why is only this idea considered the 'real' one? How did the astroids come into existence? Random --> Ordered defies basic principles of science. To me, it sounds like trying to complete a maze by jumping over the walls. Enlighten me, why does the origin of the world as you tell it not make sense when explained by the thing it was based off of? As I have said before, there is only ONE past. Can you argue that? If this universe is random, where are the other possibilities such as, if that astroid hit a different astroid than it actually did? These possibilities must exist somewhere, waiting to be discovered, as is the nature of science.

Babies growing into adults? That's not evolution. It's change. Evolution is changing to adapt to an enviroment over a long period of time. Also, can you tell me how two completely different individuals can share similar interests and form a bond? Is this a circumstance of randomness? When science tries to explain something that it really can't, it simply plops down variables. "Well, if we say it's random, we can't be wrong as randomness includes every possibility! How brilliant!" How lame.

Quote by tobiast88Rndomness, yes. Because that's the way it's majoritarily proven to be. Lack of purpose, no. 99.9999999999999 etc of Universe has no purpose in being, except being pretty, since until now there is no proof of extraterrestrial life. So the remaining vanishingly small percent has a purpose? No. Why should we have a purpose in the Universe? We're puny.
HOWEVER, I believe that humans have a purpose, and that is to evolve, to discover, to become better while learning. That is my purpose. Yours is to enforce your unproven and contradictory beliefs on mankind because a 2000 year old book says so. Madness.

If your existence is wiped out when you die, what is the point of learning? The work you invest your life in vanishes upon death. It is such a waste. "Since until now there is no proof of extraterrestrial life," Yeah, that's how theories are created - from an assumption and collected research. Have scientists visited every planet in the universe and scanned for life? It is such an unstable rock to have as a foundation. How about carbon dating? Boy, that took a hard hit when it was proven to not be accurate when it dated a 50 year old pile of human bones to be 2 billions-and-some-odd years old, heh.

Quote by tobiast88Well, me too. Except I have proof to back my beliefs up.

Oh? I have yet to read this proof you speak of. All I see are your theories and guesses with no factual backing (woah, am I repeating you?). How am I supposed to think your belief is more truthful than mine without such things? Indeed, science is composed of "mystical thinking" no less than you claim Christianity to be.

Quote by tobiast88

Quote: Please, try and poke holes in my arguements. Otherwise, you are wasting your time.

I believe I have. Go choke on a bible now, you bore me.

No, you have only attempted to baffle me with the cliche "random" universe, heh. Where do morals fit into your belief? The origin of feelings? Good and evil? Do such things not exist? If so, a person can murder whomever they want and society should accept that? *poke-poke-poke* I'd eat a Bible already, but there's that problem of fitting in my mouth first... Not scientifically possible based on past experiments, by the way.

Quote by tobiast88And you haven't answered my question about why your goddy is the real goddy. Typical.

I believe my Goddy is the real Goddy because I, for myself, have come to that conclusion based on what has been taught to me and what I've heard and researched about other religions. It's the only belief in this world that makes sense to me. How do you know gravity exists? You cannot see it. Yet you still feel its effects on our world. It's called faith, man. What if I decide to deny the existence of gravity? "No, gravity does not exist. There is not enough proof!" Does that change the fact YOU think there is ample proof it exists? I sure hope not. Whether or not you want to believe is up to you. All I can do is present it to you, there is no way to make you believe, as you have the free will to accept it or not, which you are obviously displaying - proving my point furthermore. "I am the believer who gives purpose on to you." If you truly want to believe that your existence is snuffed out when you die, go ahead. However, I am praying that you will realize the truth before it becomes too late when your existence truly will be snuffed out.

Now if you don't mind, I will randomly press the "Submit Reply" button now. Sorry kayo04, I'm running short on time so I will reply to your post later. ><

Edit: Omikami too, I didn't see your post before I submitted this one. D:

nature is fake! God is real!

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