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MT and Constructive Criticisms

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Quote by Minitokyo Policy

Galleries

* All posts should contain detailed constructive criticism specific to the submission in question.

I use to wander around galleries in MT, just to find if there are artworks or scans I'd like to download. Normally as I can see, I found out that the submissions' page might hold many entries therein -- especially when they're into popular or highlighted items.

In some way, this indirectly shows how popular the work might be (at the least degree, it can insist people to type their comments :)). However, something frequently irks me while seeing some of the gallery posts.

As we run into a popular submission's gallery page, there might be so many posts in it. Even so, (based on my experience) most of the posts will say like this: "I love the art!", "love it!", "waa, you did a great work!", "it's so cute!".... and else like that. Of course this isn't very bad; to some degree it expresses how the poster loves the art -- and might be a start of friendship between the poster and the artist.

However, can that be categorized into "constructive criticism", as the MT policy quoted above state?

In my humble opinion, that hasn't yet been a constructive criticism. As I look at it, a constructive criticism should, at least, highlight an aspect of the artwork, and then gives comment on it. It can be a praise, like "great wallpaper! you caught the dark atmosphere with the purple tone", or critique, like "I think the perspective in your wall is a bit skewed". As far as the aspect in question be mentioned, there will be some "construction": if it is a praise, then the artist will understand that he/she has caught something right. If it is a critique, then the artist will learn on how to create better art -- at the least, he/she won't do the same mistake over again.

However, that's just the least. When a criticism highlighted an aspect where the artist is weak at, and the criticist gave an advice on how to overcome it, this can be a leap on the artist's ability. Maybe he/she will learn a new trick, or a new point of view... this is assuming that the criticist is a real talent, rather than just a boaster, though.

What I want to point out here is that there are too few constructive criticisms; or even just "adequate" criticisms, here in MT. Since MT aims to only present materials with highest possible quality (according to its policy), such process is inevitably in need. When a constructive criticism is posted on a gallery, it's not only the artist who gets a feedback; even those, who read it on the gallery, will have something to learn.

For example, there's a gallery comment saying this: "I like the waterfall you created in your wall. It gives a relaxing effect". Then, as someone-unrelated come to the gallery, and he/she sees the artwork, he/she will see the waterfall. This person knows that this artwork is nice; but can't explain it. Now he/she reads the comment, and then understand: the waterfall might have contributed to the "niceness" of the pic.

There are many other examples: "The pillar you create gave mysterious effects" might trigger someone's imagination to create something mysterious using pillars; "you create harmony using contrasting colors" can lead into understanding on coloring concept, etc, etc. There are so many things to be revealed when we have constructive criticism -- including advices, of course. At least, we can see what a "weird perspective" is like, or what can be a "lacking-depth-of-field" drawings -- while also getting tips on how to overcome it.

So... let's work on creating more constructive criticisms in our next gallery comments. At the least, just point out what we like or dislike from an artwork -- it may lead for an improvement from the artist, if he/she accepted it.

Shall we? ;)

~~~~~~
just my personal opinion; please correct if I mistook something. :)

Anjhurin

Anjhurin

ARIA sanchou

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I think your thread is very interesting... and I want to add that this point has been argued upon before (the meaningless comments).
But it's still a good thing to kick it up :)

Anyway, while i agree on everything you've written, i think that there's a limit to what one can do, especially when confronted to a work that has already received many comments : among the huge number of meaningless ones, you'll have a few constructive ones... then you come accross the work which you like, download it, and upon commenting, you often find yourself with either repeating what has already been said, or if you don't want to do that, just saying "i love it" (meaningful !).
That's one of my main problems, so i'm always scouting for uncomented / newly submitted art, so i don't have to repeat something someone already said (which is not really useful to the artist), or leaving a meaningful comment... and it often saddens me because i can't / don't want to comment or fav popular pieces which i like ^_^'.

Anyway, just my two cents, but thanks for creating this thread !

Devilet

Devilet

~ cyNicaLDeviL ~

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Yeah, this has been mentioned a few times. There was a minium character amount in posts at one time, but now that's gone for some reason. Well if you ever read the whole policy, nobody follows it exactly. Not even the mods, because people just don't bother to write a lot. I don't know if it's because they are lazy, or lack of creativity in words. At one point I decided to really push myself and make all my gallery posts larger and more thoughtful. It proved to really weigh me down, I put so much energy in it to scrap words for art that didn't have much to talk on, and then it annoyed me when those submitters didn't say a word about my comment. Whatever, I know people are busy and we all have lives, but it's not like some of them got that many comments.

But I can rant this stuff for hours, truth is not many like to read either. You can write all you want about your submission but they won't read it. In the elite gallery according to the policy, you're supposed to give a detailed description about your work, and stock images if used, blah blah, to get into the elite gallery. This is false, some people don't write much or anything about their work, yet still get elite gallery. I think they should update that policy, MT is not as restrictive with comments/descriptions as it says.

Anyways back to comments, it's always going to be that way. They just like it, and aren't sure what to say in a critic manner.

candy-chan

Retired Moderator

candy-chan

on extended hiatus

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As an elder waller I can assure than it has been a very long while since I recieved a comment on Mt that actually helped me edit the wallpaper or keep in m ind new things for the next. It's deplorable to see that in such a big community so few people make the effort of writting something interesting. But I'm doubting we could actually transform the population into something extremely different. Sadly this is ont of MT's biggest negative aspects (apart from what I would call the horrible taste the people seem to have) and I would certainly be one of the firsts to do something to help~ however I wonder what would work really..

AWOL

AWOL

"SING IT EASY!"

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I believe the question is; are people able to give a good critique? Yes, some people are just plain lazy to give what I would call an 'acceptable' comment, but it should be made known that not everybody can interprete good art.

First, the art must have a degree of comphrehensivity for an adaquate critique to be made. Many of the art here don't even make the cut, so it is highly improbable to appraise any issuses may arise; the probles are too basic.

Art is objectionable. What one person sees in one image may mean a different thing for another. Besides, what makes an art piece nice lies only in a few reasons; reasons which many people cannot explain. How many actually know of the Golden Rectangle rule?

I add that a passion for Anime doesn't mean a passion for the Arts.

candy-chan

Retired Moderator

candy-chan

on extended hiatus

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what about technical criticism AWOL? You seem to have forgotten that many wallers ask for crittique to enhance their technical skills. And it is more than easy to give constructive comenting on any type of wallpaper, or artwork.

AWOL

AWOL

"SING IT EASY!"

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For one, I'm not disagreeing with anything. Two, thank you for bringing up this point.

Like kitamurazv told me, the number of non-wallers far outweigh wallers in the membership. How many of us can actually give skill critique if we've never actually used the application before? Besides, technical skill is objectionable as well. An individual idea on how an artpiece should be executed with the brush may vary from person to person. The final result may eventually turn out much different than what the waller want it to be.

About how easy constructive commenting is... ugh, I've said this time and time again and I'm gonna be sick of it; asthetic critique varies from different perspectives. Not everyone sees tha same thing in an artpiece. But a good critic is able to interprete the story, the emotion, the style, the lighting, the effects, etc from an artpiece with exquisite detail and their own perspective, and is able to point out mistakes depending on the form and type of artpiece it is.

What you may say as 'simple constructive criticism' may not help the asthetic value of the artpiece at all.

Anjhurin

Anjhurin

ARIA sanchou

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I do agree with AWOL on the fact that not everyone is able to give "good critiques", even in the technical domain (not being a waller / drawer).

But i think the important point in giving a detailed comment on which points you liked / disliked, what could be improved etc... is that it shows the artist some appreciation for his work. It means that you've looked into his work deeply, and not just barely glanced at it / faved-it-because-there-was-a-nice-girl (to make a big cliche).
Even though the artist might not improve because of your critique / comment, going into details is a plus, maybe it boosts the "ego", so to speak. When someone in real life passes by and sees your work, exclaims "whoooaaa cooool", and just wanders off, you don't feel any satisfaction do you ? I believe it's about the same thing here, though it's just a guess (not being an artist myself).

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Quote by Anjhurin
...Even though the artist might not improve because of your critique / comment, going into details is a plus, maybe it boosts the "ego", so to speak. When someone in real life passes by and sees your work, exclaims "whoooaaa cooool", and just wanders off, you don't feel any satisfaction do you ? I believe it's about the same thing here, though it's just a guess (not being an artist myself).

I'd rather say it as "confidence", though. When people say what's good on what's really good, in may esteem the artist's confidence. Yet, when it is said to be lacking, it will be revealed to the artist -- that there's 'hole' in the work he/she's done.

Moreover, by seeing the commentary on the detail(s) being highlighted, the artist him/herself can deduce what people think of, at least, part of his/her own work. This is just my assumption, however.

sukumei

sukumei

Running A Critiquing Service

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I think that when poepel go on the internet they get lazy and therefore the LOL, ROFL, WTF.... Yes I totally agree with you on this one but people's laziness is not something that you and I can cure. Prehaps they could not see it properly and have to download it to take a look but are too lazy to go back and put in a comment (for peopel like me :P).
Same as an author, an artist need cotstructive critism to improve his/her work. If only there was an editor for art...

I would like to run a friendly critiquing service for Minitokyo artists. I will try to make my opinions professional and defiantly unbiased although i will speak ideas for the general public. Critiquing service MT thread

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