Will the fence stop inmigration from Mexico?

Will the US-Mexico fence stop inmigration?

Yes
2 votes
No
39 votes
Maybe
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Hi people, i just want to read your opinions about the plan of the US goverment to build a fence in the South Border to prevent ilegal inmigrants from Mexico and other countries from entering the US.

Do you think that a fence will stop inmigrants or at least do a better work than the border patrol and the minute men?

I was watching a documentary about this issue at Discovery Channel and it seems that for many mexicans crossing the border is a complete way of life and many of them do not care about leave everything and risk the life in the desert. For many mexicans (and people from latin america) the US is the only place on the face of Earth that give real chances of achieve a good level of life.

I am from Costa Rica, i do not agree with the ilegal inmigrants for a simple reason. The only way to improve the life of your family is to work and improve your OWN COUNTRY. I feel sick when i hear a mexican speak of rights when he breaks the law. The laws are there for a reason.

If the mexican people is poor, the should blame their own goverment instead of cross the border and blame the american goverment of their problems, as they did in the protests this year.

So I think that a fence between Mexico and the US is not going to stop the problem, the only way to solve the issue is that Mexico, a big and rich country, achieve real development. But it is up to mexicans to achieve that. Same goes to the rest of Latin America. What the US can do is pressure the goverments of those countries to work for their people and avoid corruption.

If Latin America reach a decent level of life, the ilegal inmigration to the US from Mexico will be a matter of history or just minor problem that can be controled.

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I read an article in which the recent increase in border patrol agents and the construction of new fences made a dent in the flow of illegal immigrates. The number of of arrests at the border fell 8% from 1.2 million the previous year to 1.1 million.

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  • Nov 02, 2006
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USA has a lot to do with illegal inmigration. Their abusive and imperialistic economic policies over decades led Latin countries to starvation and dependance in a lot of times. Now they want to stop them by building the Berlin Wall part two. Cynical.

But well, it's what you would expect from a extremist like Bush.

  • Nov 02, 2006

starrliteangel

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hey i dont knwo if this is true, but i heard on my radio station that they built some fence on some island (or a strip of land coming off the US, i dont remember which one) between mexico and the US, and theyve started playing volleyball over teh fence, with mexicans on one side, and americans on the other! so far i guess mexicans have been winning..but ahh this radio station is moslty jokes so i dont think its true. but if it was, its kinda funny!

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cetrax

DO A BARREL ROLL!

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Those crazy bastards will always find a way in.

  • Nov 03, 2006

Taurec

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Wire cutters seem to be out of stock lately. *shrug*

- Too bad stupidity isn't painful

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Quote by DsfarfegUSA has a lot to do with illegal inmigration. Their abusive and imperialistic economic policies over decades led Latin countries to starvation and dependance in a lot of times. Now they want to stop them by building the Berlin Wall part two. Cynical.

But well, it's what you would expect from a extremist like Bush.

Who is this they you refer to? ~_~. Care to cite any references that back up your statements? Less emotion more facts please. ;)

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  • Nov 03, 2006

ether92

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Just like cetrax said, those crazy bastards will always find a way in,
hey, keiichi, tenemos algo de que hablar,
te esperare.

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Mnemeth

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It won't stop them but it will substantially reduce the amount of illegal immigrants making it into the country especially if the fence line is monitored. This is a good thing regardless of all the crys of racism, isolationism, etc..., etc... which are really just arguments that hope to sway the ignorant. By minimizing the amount of illegal immigrants that enter or remain in the country you increase the secutiry of the country. I agree that many of these people are just looking for better lives but they are looking in the wrong place. They should be taking on the corruption and poor policies of their original countires en masse to push for the improvement of their lives.

Quote by DsfarfegUSA has a lot to do with illegal inmigration. Their abusive and imperialistic economic policies over decades led Latin countries to starvation and dependance in a lot of times. Now they want to stop them by building the Berlin Wall part two. Cynical.
But well, it's what you would expect from a extremist like Bush.

What planet are you living on. Do you have any idea as to the amount of money from the US that flows into Mexico, Central and South America in the forms of aid and commerce. Without that several of these countries would be far worse off than they are now. Nice but completely pointless comparison to the Berlin wall. The difference between the two is staggering in scope and purpose.

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  • Nov 03, 2006

GearStalker05

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A fence will do no good whatsoever. ...or has the U.S. forgotten about the tunnels used to smuggle drugs in from Mexico. If they can't get in one way, they'll find another.

Simple little equation: As long as you know where you are going to, and where your are leaving from, there are countless ways to get to your destination.

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You got what you wanted...but you got what you hate...

  • Nov 03, 2006
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They should also add other things if they want to stop or reduce illegal immigratetion. the fence is just one way but what else can the gov. or we the ppl can do. The minute men helps, but there should be less lethel.

  • Nov 03, 2006
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Fences and border patrols can only go so far. What needs to be done is the Executive Branch Agencies responsible for enforcing immigration laws need to actually enforce the laws.

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  • Nov 03, 2006
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Taking away illegal immigrant rights could help as well. As it is, they seem to have more rights then citizens do. They get the same crap as us, don't pay taxes, and get free of a lot of stuff we have to pay for like hospitals.

  • Nov 04, 2006
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No, I'm sure they'd be able to jump over. Anyways I think their rights should just be taken away so they won't want to cross over :P

  • Nov 06, 2006
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Quote: They should also add other things if they want to stop or reduce illegal immigratetion. the fence is just one way but what else can the gov. or we the ppl can do. The minute men helps, but there should be less lethel.


We people could shoot them whenever we see one. Mexicans seriously are trying to take over the place... It's just a conspiracy thing but it just seems so possible. Also why go to us, why not just go to the mexican government then complain rather than going to us.

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  • Nov 06, 2006

candy-chan

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Quote by DsfarfegUSA has a lot to do with illegal inmigration. Their abusive and imperialistic economic policies over decades led Latin countries to starvation and dependance in a lot of times.

agreed.

Now watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhEl6HdfqWM
awesomesauce

yummmey

yummmey

Kazel

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The only thing that will stop illegal immigrants is if they find a different place to go to. Look at Berlin during the Cold War era. They had TWO walls with land mines and machine gun nests every 100 yards. Did the people stop at least trying to get thru? NO. People will always look for a way to make their life better.

What you said about people improving their own country instead of moving somewhere else doesn't quiet work either. I am sure they know that they can improve their own country instead of going somewhere else, but they wont. One simple reason: it's less work. Mexico, and the rest of Central and South American is pretty messed up. People are just more willig to make a 4 day trip thru the desert with the threat of death than to actually put a few years of work into improving the standard of living.

  • Nov 09, 2006

Acyx

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Quote by DsfarfegUSA has a lot to do with illegal inmigration. Their abusive and imperialistic economic policies over decades led Latin countries to starvation and dependance in a lot of times. Now they want to stop them by building the Berlin Wall part two. Cynical.

But well, it's what you would expect from a extremist like Bush.

I'd be more inclined to compare it to Hadrian's wall, although that is beside the point. Mexico as a country is in need of social and economic reforms as well as a comprehensive overhaul of it's dilapidated and obsolete economy (that functions currently at around a late nineteenth century level). The fence itself is an overteched stop-gap measure that will require more money to maintain than it will help 'solve' the problems of illegal immigration. That and the fact that many of these illegal immigrants have taken to tunneling under barriers such as this proposed one in the past. Sadly, nobody thus far has wanted to put pressure onto the Mexican government for reforms though, as doing that would more than likely negatively affect U.S. interests or business throughout the region.

It's as the old proverb reads, "The cure is often worse than the disease."

And Griffon, the U.S. has had a long, sad history of imperialism to it's name. We are not the special "can do no wrong, has never done any wrong" place that many history textbooks or right-wingers have marked it up to be. Have there been any other nations that have been worse than us? Very much so-- although Dsfarfeg's rather vague description, citing latin American countries (which more specifically would be Nicaragua, Honduras, Panama, and possibly others throughout Central and South America) is but a single facet of that. There have been others such as the Phillipines, U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War (Vietnam prior had been historically tossed around like a hot potato, first under Chinese governance, then French ((which would have been twice if it had not been for their defeat at Dien Bien Phu)), then Japanese, and then the attempt made by the U.S. to implement colonial policy in the region), genocide of native American peoples during the entire 'manifest destiny' era and even prior to that.. the list goes on and on. The end result however always seems to be the same, exploited peoples, and damaged cultural mindsets.

In effect, we followed the template laid down by our European predecessors quite well. The underlying motif of cultural superiority leading us to massacre and humiliate under the cloaked guise of a lofty and 'noble' cause. Iraq and Afghanistan are two more victims in this vicious cycle which I pray does end with them as it's last. It is time to move on from this dark chapter of not only U.S., but also of human history. It is time to grow and shun the extreme ideologies of people like George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, or any other right or left-wing wackjob (whether domestic or foreign) that truly do compromise the fabric that our societies are built upon by perverting their messages for their own gain. As is it my belief that our continued survival as a nation depends on it, as does the survival of us as a whole.

"And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, "O Lord, bless this thy hand grenade, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy." And the Lord did grin. And the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths, and carp and anchovies, and orangutans and breakfast cereals, and fruit-bats and large chu..."

  • Nov 09, 2006
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A fence won't stop anyone from get over/under it. Just watch Chicken Run. ;)

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TestTubeBaby

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USA economy is dependent from all mexico and central america's illegal immigrants... without them, USA would fall down quickly... so Bush's racism will take down the USA

Keiichi said he was sick from heard about illegal crossing, but belive me, mexican goverment is fully of money ambitious people... they steal the poor people money (economical aid) for travels, expensive clothes, land properties, and more...
at your country i dont know, may be you cross by boat or something to get in the USA.... oh no i forgot.... actually you're property of the US =P

  • Nov 10, 2006

jasaiyajin

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TestTubeBaby - America got lazy and doesn't want to do it's own dirty work. So a guy over the border will do it for cheaper and is ready willing and able. ^__^

The fence is like a symbol of "trying" to do something in the eyes of the public, but it doesn't seem like it will work very well... it just means another checkpoint to cross or bypass... it just seems wrong, build a Great Wall, that should help!

-repeat-

  • Nov 10, 2006
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Well, Keiichi, I don't want to sound like it's something personal... Or that I'm attacking your point of view. I say this because I had certain bad experiences with someone waaay too radical and waaaay to fast in insulting in the Science and Religion Forum. Also, I'm not from an globalyfobic or left wing group. In fact, I hate them. If you have watched the news, you already know how much damage they have done in my Country these last months.

You have made your points very well, just wanted to share my own point of view, since I'm Mexican.

Quote by KeiichiDo you think that a fence will stop inmigrants or at least do a better work than the border patrol and the minute men?.

The minute men shouldn't even count. They're a bunch of paranoic paramilitars no better than the KKK or the SS. Have you seen the documental "Armies of Evil"? I say this because I've listened to them in the news: "...they want to conquer back this territory..." There's something definetely wrong with them. The Border Patrol are and should be the only authority in the matter.

Quote by Keiichimany of them do not care about leave everything and risk the life in the desert. For many mexicans (and people from latin america) the US is the only place on the face of Earth that give real chances of achieve a good level of life.?.

Yes, but you got to have in mind that leaving everything and risk their lives it's not for fun. Imagine to leave your family, friends, everything... Imagine to have start from plain zero.
Know why? It's called DESESPERATION. If they could, they wouldn't do it. You are from Costa Rica, you don't have to go too far to find despair among your people. The same happens in Europe with Africans.

Quote by KeiichiI am from Costa Rica, i do not agree with the ilegal inmigrants for a simple reason. The only way to improve the life of your family is to work and improve your OWN COUNTRY. I feel sick when i hear a mexican speak of rights when he breaks the law. The laws are there for a reason..?.

I agree. They're breaking a law. But people can't wait until their country is improved to FEED their children. Again, desesperation.

Quote by KeiichiIf the mexican people is poor, the should blame their own goverment instead of cross the border and blame the american goverment of their problems, as they did in the protests this year.

They do not blame the US. They know is the country that has given all that they have. They protest against politicians. Remember that an election has just happened in the US, and there ANYTHING THAT CAN BE USED AS A WEAPON TO GAIN VOTERS, WILL BE USED AS A WEAPON TO GAIN VOTERS.

It's the same retoric Bush used to win again. While the Democrats talked about other possibilities than staying in Irak, Bush talked about security and being a the same great country despite that they didn't find weapons of mass destruction. Not that Saddam didn't deserve what he got, but that should have been disscused in the UN.

What the democrats didn't count is that they were talking to people with ceirtain culture. Bush was talking to "Joe SixPack", wich makes the most of US population.

Quote by KeiichiSo I think that a fence between Mexico and the US is not going to stop the problem, the only way to solve the issue is that Mexico, a big and rich country, achieve real development. But it is up to mexicans to achieve that. Same goes to the rest of Latin America. What the US can do is pressure the goverments of those countries to work for their people and avoid corruption.

The problem is way too complicated to disscuss it in a few lines. Yes, Mexico has richeness. But it also has cultural traumas, as most of the Latin American countries do. A writer said once that we "are the cildren of a rape". Sounds a bit exagerates, but it could be true. I live in Yucatan, a state with a soil that's almost 60% pure rock, and no rivers nor lakes. It's hard to scratch someting from the land (my mother's family had ranches), and however, the level of life is higer than in other states. There's not so much migration as in other states. I had been in Chiapas twice. All the water of the southeast of Mexico comes from there. It's always green. It has at least 10 ecosystems. Their dry season is better than our rainseason. Empires flourished there in the past. However, is one of the poorest states. People of ceirtan towns that are tourist atraction have become practically beggars.

Why? I don't know. Some say that Spanish destroyed the ancient methods of land explotation. They were adventurers, from dry north Spain, they didn't know very much about ecology and impossed their ways. On the other hand, more recently, the jungles and tropicals forest have almost dissappeared, overexploited by US' and transnational companies.

Ignorance and poverty are the main problems.

Also the dry north of Mexico is richest than the prodigal south. Strange contradictions. But you can find these contradictions in every country.

Quote by KeiichiIf Latin America reach a decent level of life, the ilegal inmigration to the US from Mexico will be a matter of history or just minor problem that can be controled.

Yes, how are we going to help our countries? But also, we got to have in mind that the US is made almost entirely of inmigrants.

What happened to what's inscripted in the Statue of Liberty? "Give your opressed masses?..." How about the "Melting Pot?" Where the people of the "Mayflower" the only with rigth to inmigrate? How about giving the entire US back to Native Americans? I'm not pointing this as sarcams or ingenuity, it's only to make a point about the hipocresy of politicians and how their ideals come and go like the waves of the sea, depending on their interest.

Mexico is not asking the US to solve our problems. But there are problems that we share. People go there because they're wanted as a workforce. Even sometimes explioited.

The fence is a political excuse to gain votes, and a waste of money, instead of destinating that money to the Border Patrol. It only encourages racism and xenofobic just like the minutemen. And yes, it could be compared to the Berlin Wall. Wall never are solutions.

merged: 11-10-2006 ~ 12:29pm

Quote by cetraxThose crazy bastards will always find a way in.

Yes, that is what I'm talking about. Bravo, cetrax, that was very racist and offeding. Let's also give moderator CANDY-CHAN an aplausse for the nice job he/she is doing about making MT's rules of tolerance and tact being respected.

  • Nov 10, 2006

candy-chan

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candy-chan

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Quote by mireya2
merged: 11-10-2006 ~ 12:29pm

Quote by cetraxThose crazy bastards will always find a way in.

Yes, that is what I'm talking about. Bravo, cetrax, that was very racist and offeding. Let's also give moderator CANDY-CHAN an aplausse for the nice job he/she is doing about making MT's rules of tolerance and tact being respected.

sorry I'm not the average fascist moderator.
Cetrax's post was certainly not the most substantial one I've seen on this thread but I also do not remember banning the word bastard from our forums.

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Well Candy-Chan, what's your nationality? Let's call them something.

  • Nov 10, 2006

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