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Quote by Espada
Quote by ProgramZEROWhat is a "false religion" and what is a "true religion"?
Perhaps he means that Christianity is the one true religion and that every other faith is either wholly false or supportive of Satan.
Not sure what would lead him to that conclusion but whatever.
Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.
Quote by ProgramZEROYou would not take the WORD OF GOD! (allegedly) literally? *gasp*
No -gasp- That's not exactly. Because:
1.- It's written by a culture that, in order TO ILUSTRATE MORAL, USED LITERATURE FIGURES. That's why JESUS TEACHED USING PARABLES. It's kind of hard to us, from an occidental culture, to understand it. But that was their way.
2.- I agree in ONE part that KeYYeK321 stated: "Everything within the bible cant be taken literally, because it leads to fundamentalism". No examples needed here.
Quote by ProgramZEROA forgiving and loving father would not curse humanity with Original Sin nor would he condemn his children to ETERNAL HELLFIRE!*
But THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN: Read carefully, and you'll find out that God curses the Earth, curses the snake (Satan)... but He DOESN'T CURSE the Humans.
Why? because God's original plan CAN'T BE TWISTED, even by Lucifer. Humanity is the most gloriuos part of the plan, so instead of curse, they get a redemptor.
If you are to believe that Jesus is actually who he claimed to be, you'll see that God ACTUALLY SHARES HUMAN CONDITION TROUGTH THE SON, and beyond that, shares a world of pain for HUMANITY'S SINS. And even today, AS YOU CAN SEE IN THIS PAGE, he suffers indiference, despise, ridiculization, etc.
Quote by KeYYeK3211. One reason I don't follow the bible. It's just a book and nothing more.
2. So God doesn't care what paths we will take? He wouldn't step in to stop Adam and Eve when he created them both without the ability to see right from wrong and then punish them for their acts? Another reason I don't follow the bible.
Well, I tried to give an answer to that in the lines I just wrote. The sin, and Human's misery lead to the redemption trogth sacrifice of God the Son. But:
1.- Ok, you don't have. But you'll be missing a lot. Not all of the Bible is boring (as in Numbers and Leviticus). As in any book (as you say) you can find things. Rmember that it's a COLLECTION OF BOOKS, were you can find from historic books to parables to poems or short novels (like Jonas) But if you dropped it by Numbers or Leviticus, you'll never find out.
2.- The first part of Genesis is a parable. They collected their numerous oral traditions and gave it form. They tried to explain our weakness and capacity to do evil (the original sin) as the result of distust (not believing in what God said), betrayal (they believed in Satan words) and, over all of it, pride and a desire of power ("you'll be as gods").
It's suppoused that they would eventually have acces to that knowdledge, but they had to be tested first.
All of this, in the context of the culture, time, and beliefs of the writers. If you DON'T read it quite LITERALLY, you'll find out that it's very deep.
I would recomed you a Catholic Bible for students or teachers. Not because I'm Catholic, but because it's hard to find an explainesd Bible in other branches of Christianity, since many believe that the Bible has to be read literally.
Quote by mireya2A forgiving and loving father would not curse humanity with Original Sin nor would he condemn his children to ETERNAL HELLFIRE!
But THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN: Read carefully, and you'll find out that God curses the Earth, curses the snake (Satan)... but He DOESN'T CURSE the Humans.
He banishes them from Eden. And he sends plenty to Hell for ETERNITY after death! Funny how he's so loving and yet banishes people to Hell for an eternity. Seems a little harsh.
Quote: Why? because God's original plan CAN'T BE TWISTED, even by Lucifer. Humanity is the most gloriuos part of the plan, so instead of curse, they get a redemptor. If you are to believe that Jesus is actually who he claimed to be, you'll see that God ACTUALLY SHARES HUMAN CONDITION TROUGTH THE SON, and beyond that, shares a world of pain for HUMANITY'S SINS. And even today, AS YOU CAN SEE IN THIS PAGE, he suffers indiference, despise, ridiculization, etc.
And people are still sent to Hell. Great plan.
Yeah, as for Jesus, alot of people were tortured and killed back then. You tell me he's so special but I certainly don't see it. He's a figure of fiction as far as I'm concerned. And plenty of people were tortured because of Christianity too. Some plan.
Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.
I think you're in a bad mood today.
If you are to believe in Hell, you have to know that it isn't a place. There's no fire. It's a state of the soul.
Hell works this way: God doesn't rejects you. It's you who rejects God. A soul that has walked away and away from God during all life, well, at the moment of death, ends up in hell. Imagine it as walking voluntary towards darkness, just because it was the path that looked easier, or because it just fitted me. The soul ends there because that was the chosen path. Remember that all is based in freewill.
But we, the living, can't say who's really in Hell or not. It's a mistery, because, you know, many only want to see God as a judge, and He is, but he is also mercyfull. You don't know if a person truly repented.
While we are alive we can choose, and walk the path balancing from evil to goodness. You can repent even at the moment of death.
But once you're dead, think of it as if being frozen in the goodness or in the evil.
And of course people are still going to Hell. But that wasn't part of any plan. Unless you want Gandhi to share heaven with Hitler, Stalin or Idi Amin. Or the multiple killers, rapers and criminals in the world.
Ups! I said Hitler, Stalin and Amin are in Hell. When I said I really can't tell. What do you think?
***
And for Jesus: Yeah, a lot people suffered and still suffer humilliation or death.
I can't tell you in a few lines what he REALLY suffered. If you're interested in finding out about this, I recomend you a book: "The bitter Passion of Christ".
It was dictated by an illiterated, very old nun to a young poet. She didn't know anything about Teology nor Phylosophy. She only dictated images that appeared in her mind. It was also the book on which Mel Gibson based "The Passion". One hint: why do you think Gibson put the devil walking among the unsually raged and crazed mob? It wasn't symbolic.
Fiction? Well... You won't believe me, but I've known a lot of people that don't take an ideal or take a flag in life, because of fear. And fear is ok, because standing for an ideal could mean a lot of hurt and pain. Well, it'll certainly be hurt and pain. And nobody, absolutely nobody wants to suffer. But for those who do it...
Don't take me wrong for what I'm going to tell you next. I'm not trying to convert you. None can believe in any religion unless he/she experiences it personally. I'm telling you this as kind of opening my heart to tell you why I believed, and why I have been teaching catechism for 15 years (I started young). Not to convert you, but to CONVINCE you to look out for that personal experience.
In the Catholic Church we put a crucufied Jesus in our temples and homes, because it's a God with the arms perpetually open to us. it also remind us: "I did it for you".
I truly deserve to be crucified in that wood, because I'm not worth of him. That cross truly represents the clutches of death. Of satan. But imagine that this man comes and says "Get down of there, so I can be crucified instead of you".
Of course, this very personal. And you don't have to be catholic. Just to have a little concern for those who sorround you. For your community.
Bye, and shake that bad mood.
Quote: Hell works this way: God doesn't rejects you. It's you who rejects God. A soul that has walked away and away from God during all life, well, at the moment of death, ends up in hell. Imagine it as walking voluntary towards darkness, just because it was the path that looked easier, or because it just fitted me. The soul ends there because that was the chosen path. Remember that all is based in freewill.
But we, the living, can't say who's really in Hell or not. It's a mistery, because, you know, many only want to see God as a judge, and He is, but he is also mercyfull. You don't know if a person truly repented.
If we were to be judged and to be judged by the "creator" if so, then why bother? The person who created
something should know it's functions and process correct? Kind of makes you wonder why bother even creating a hell
or heaven.
Quote: Bye, and shake that bad mood.
O.o *pokes the bad mood* XD
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Quote by DarkRoseofHellIf we were to be judged and to be judged by the "creator" if so, then why bother? The person who created something should know it's functions and process correct? Kind of makes you wonder why bother even creating a hell or heaven.
Hi again!
Why bother? As in you, me and every person on Earth? Because if you are to believe in it, that there's a especial plan for you, as there's one for me, the CORE OF GOD'S PLAN FOR YOU IS THE FREEWILL.
So, if I am free to act as my will , my actions will sooner or later bring consecuences. And I have to answer to them.
How is the judgement of God? I don't know for sure. But I think it should be simpler and more just than ours. If I walked while living away and away from him, I think that as a naked soul, with all my guilts to be seen, I just wouldn't resist to be close to him. And making the final, definitive run away from him, that should be hell.
But the heart of it is THE RESPECT THAT GOD HAS TO YOUR FREEWILL.
Heaven and hell weren't exactly created. "Heaven" is "close to God", the grace, the perfect friendship with God. "Hell" is "away" from God.
I'm starting to sound like DarkIngram, huh?... But no, I won't write kilometric statements saying only I weild the true religion. Let's correct that:
I can't tell you I have the complete truth to the afterlife. That would be kind of FUNDAMENTALISM. Much that I can tell you are inferences, or sometimes just guessing (based in studies by teologist and phylosophers, but still inferences). Even Jesus didn't speak much of hell.
Yet, that little he spoke was very harsh. When he spoke about fire and worms, he was comparing it with a garbage yard that existed outside the walls of Jerusalen where the trash was usually burnt.
The only thing that I can't tell you for sure is that to gain heaven instead of hell, we have to get out of our cocoon of selfishness and start caring about the others. I can have a treasure in heaven, with a life of dedication to the others. Not necesary to know the Bible forwards and backwards. The only money that buys God is the money that you really needed, but yet you spent in helping others.
Long enough for our mental sanity. Bye.
Quote by mireya2I think you're in a bad mood today.
I'm not, I'm just trying to make sense of all of it.
Quote: Hell works this way: God doesn't rejects you. It's you who rejects God. A soul that has walked away and away from God during all life, well, at the moment of death, ends up in hell. Imagine it as walking voluntary towards darkness, just because it was the path that looked easier, or because it just fitted me. The soul ends there because that was the chosen path. Remember that all is based in freewill.
You know, I would think that a god worth worshipping would worry more about one's actions rather than one's beliefs. Doesn't that make sense?
Quote: But we, the living, can't say who's really in Hell or not.
Nor can we tell if it
exists or not. You know, I laugh a little when people tell me to fear hell, as if they knew without a doubt that it
existed.
Quote: And of course people are still going to Hell. But that wasn't part of any plan. Unless you want Gandhi to share heaven with Hitler, Stalin or Idi Amin. Or the multiple killers, rapers and criminals in the world. Ups! I said Hitler, Stalin and Amin are in Hell. When I said I really can't tell. What do you think?
I don't believe in hell. And it certainly is part of God's plan since he allows hell to exist.
Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.
Quote: Why bother? As in you, me and every person on Earth? Because if you are to believe in it, that there's a especial plan for you, as there's one for me, the CORE OF GOD'S PLAN FOR YOU IS THE FREEWILL.
So, if I am free to act as my will , my actions will sooner or later bring consecuences. And I have to answer to them.
How is the judgement of God? I don't know for sure. But I think it should be simpler and more just than ours. If I walked while living away and away from him, I think that as a naked soul, with all my guilts to be seen, I just wouldn't resist to be close to him. And making the final, definitive run away from him, that should be hell.
But the heart of it is THE RESPECT THAT GOD HAS TO YOUR FREEWILL.
Heaven and hell weren't exactly created. "Heaven" is "close to God", the grace, the perfect friendship with God. "Hell" is "away" from God.
Umm... if god was supposedly to create everything, then why is heaven and hell never created? Well anyways, Just the
thought that if you don't know what you create is capable of, then how can you judge them? Also freewill is too
subjective and too many opposing sides to be used so easily.
Quote: I'm starting to sound like DarkIngram, huh?... But no, I won't write kilometric statements saying only I weild the true religion. Let's correct that:
*poke poke* Hopefully you don't sound like DarkIngram. I'd be scared to see that happen.
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