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God's Power...

Can he?

Yes
18 votes
No
21 votes
Head explodes
20 votes

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mountain

mountain

None

well is there a number greater than infinity?

ttwen

ttwen

somebody

Quote by DarkRoseofHellYou know, these statements have nothing to do with omnipotence and it creates no paradoxes. A cretean saying all creteans lie does not create a paradox, rather it's just the cretean insulting itself. If a man is covered by a tree's shadow, in order to have shadow there must be light.

a cretean saying all creteans lie :
if what he says is true, then that must mean he's lying, then that means all creteans do not lie, but if creteans do not lie, why he is saying all creteans lie?! well then, if he's lying, then what all creteans say are true. seeing that he is telling the truth, then all creteans (including him) is lying! and the circle goes on and on

a man standing behind a tree at sunset, with the tree facing the sun: is he's shadow covered by the tree's shadow? or he has no shadow at all? :

actually i read a book about shadows some time ago (Shadows, by Robert Casati)

i'll extract from that to explain :
it's the brain teaser no. eight brain of shadows :

"Eight: The Great Brain-Teaser About Shadows,
or, Too Many Causes Spoil the Effect

...... shadows always depend on an obstacle blocking the light. ......
...... an object does not cast a shadow through another object. The table makes a shadow on the terrace. If i put a statue on the table, the statue makes a shadow on the table. But this shadow does not "pass through" the table to reach the terrace floor.(Try and See.)
...... to make a shadow the body must be illuminated, let's say from one side. If it doesn't get light, the table won't make a shadow.
...... Let's go back again to the table casting its shadow on the terrace floor. Let's take the little statue and put it under the table, in the shadow, in such a way that its own shadow does not poke out from the shadow of the table. We move the table away for a moment and we trace a chalk outline of the statue's shadow on the terrace. Then we put the table back in place, leaving the statue where it is. we now have the statue back under the table, and inside the table's big shadow is an area marked off in chalk. This chalk line encloses a shadow zone that we'll call the Suspicious Zone. Now we ask: whose shadow is in the Suspicious Zone?

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/922/untitledxm7.th.jpg

It's not the table's shadow, since according to the second principle the table does not cast its shadow through the statue. It's not the statue's shadow, because according to the third principle the statue is not illuminated, standing as it is in the table's shadow. But beware: because there's nothing else that can cast a shadow besides the table and the statue, it seems that the first principle is useless here. The suspicious Zone is a shadow, but it's not the shadow of any one object.
......"

there are 7 more you know ;)
but let's get to the point : saying God being more powerful than himself is shadowy
>.<
like i said before, we cant measure God's power in the eyes of a mortal man. its incomprehensible. just like we can't understand what really is God (we know God is God but nothing else. We don't know the sex, the age, and so on.)
so ProgramZero, you're question is obviously wrong :/

ProgramZERO

ProgramZERO

The Lost Generation

Quote by mountainwell is there a number greater than infinity?

No... Infinity+1?

Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.

Quote by ProgramZERO

Quote by mireya2Someone asked before if God could make a rock he could not move.

It's not about proving anything. It's about asking questions concerning the nature of God. Here's one:
COULD GOD POSE A QUESTION THAT NOT EVEN HE COULD ANSWER?

Well, he could not, since He is omniciescent. That means God knows everything, and therefrore, he doesn't needs to ask himself a question He wouldn't answer. That doesn't diminish His knowdlwge or power.

It's as if I (playing God) would fill a box (the Universe) with apples. Then I ask myself if there could be a banana inside.

Bye.

merged: 02-09-2007 ~ 02:10am

Quote by DarkRoseofHellLets put it this way, if god is omnipotent, then he can do anything correct? If so, then why call him omnipotent? If he "can" do anything even if it seems as a paradox, that places the fact that he can make rocks that he can't carry... correct?

Hi again, how you been doing?

I don't think paradoxes have anything to do with it.

That's why I have always said that Science and Religion don't have necessarely to be confrontated.

The reason is that God is not a showman, nor magician. He's not David Copperfield nor Bozo. He doesn't need to do it since everything in nature is complex enough to demostrate his power. I can't create life.

He created a very complex set of rules for the Universe to function, and the world will normally work under that logical, slow set of rules that we discover trougth Science.

God would do things that we'd call supernatural... but that requires either a lot of faith, or a total lackness of it. The motive, as happened in the Old Testament and with Jesus' miracles was to prove, in the first case, his power, and in the second, that he was truly the Messiah.

Why? Because if he considers it necesary, He can alter the same rules he wrote. Again, the example of a painter: He could alter and overlay figures in the paint.

So, as I wrote before, He wouldn't do the rock's thing. Is like asking a painter to do a drawing without pencils, carbons, pastels, or without any surface to draw over.

Remenber Satan tempting Jesus after fasting in hte desert? "You won't tempt God, your Lord"?

See ya around.


Quote by Blueheart
god's powers are infinite, so He can't become more powerful because he is the power himself

So if he can't become more powerful than himself, is his power truly infinite?


The Bible doesn't state that God's power is infinate.It states that he is Alpha and Omega, Beginning and End. This is stated meaning that God is the most powerful before the Earth was formed and after it passes away. There is no more power to be had.It is not a shared persentage, a growing state of being, and there is no way for him to get more power-He is the power and has all of it.He doesn't share it but has it all so he cannot become stronger than He is now. For example, you have 10 marbles in your posession. You create different shapes and play with the marbles as you please.You never lose them, you never gfive them away, they don't tarnish, and they can't be destroyed. Also, you can't buy anymore because you alone own the world's supply of marbles. God's power would be the same. He owns it already, can't lose it, and doesn't share it. In short he can't become more powerful so your belief on whether his power is infinate would depend on the way you see infinity.I beleive that once you control every aspect of something, like entire galaxies, planets and types of lifeforms, you have infinte power of what happens to it.

merged: 02-09-2007 ~ 07:13am
Sorry about the post above not being formatted correctly. I t should read something like what follows.(Hopefully ^_^')

"Quote by Blueheart
god's powers are infinite, so He can't become more powerful because he is the power himself

So if he can't become more powerful than himself, is his power truly infinite? "


The Bible doesn't state that God's power is infinate.It states that he is Alpha and Omega, Beginning and End. This is stated meaning that God is the most powerful before the Earth was formed and after it passes away. There is no more power to be had.It is not a shared persentage, a growing state of being, and there is no way for him to get more power-He is the power and has all of it.He doesn't share it but has it all so he cannot become stronger than He is now. For example, you have 10 marbles in your posession. You create different shapes and play with the marbles as you please.You never lose them, you never gfive them away, they don't tarnish, and they can't be destroyed. Also, you can't buy anymore because you alone own the world's supply of marbles. God's power would be the same. He owns it already, can't lose it, and doesn't share it. In short he can't become more powerful so your belief on whether his power is infinate would depend on the way you see infinity.I beleive that once you control every aspect of something, like entire galaxies, planets and types of lifeforms, you have infinte power of what happens to it.

Quote: ^_^' ^_^'

Quote by Blueheart

ProgramZERO

ProgramZERO

The Lost Generation

Quote by ttwenProgramZero, you're question is obviously wrong :/

I've never heard of questions being wrong since they don't really make assertions.

I'm not asking you to measure God's power, I'm simply stating that since God is described as omni-potent as in ALL-powerful, can he be more powerful than himself knowing that all we know about his power is that it's INFINITE!

Or, if you would prefer to ponder another question that deals not with the measure of his power, ponder the question: "Can God pose a question that even he could never answer?"

Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.

The answer to your question is relatively simple. God cannot be more powerful or less powerful, because he IS power. Similar to the idea of perfection, Perfection implies that you cannot add anymore to it, because it is completely actualized ( actualized vs potential. Perfection is the lack of potential ) Therefore, God cannot be more or less powerful than himself, because he is a standard by which we judge power. ( not literally "power" as in physics)

And, to asnwer your question: " Can God pose a question that even he could not answer?" is answered by my above question: Because he is perfect ( because thats what defines the Christian-God) he can never pose a question he cannot answer.

Now an understanding that needs to be wrapped around: you cannot compare the Christian God ( or just "God" ) to human understanding, because - to understand god- you must first understand the revelation of god. According to the bible - he revealed himself to Abraham once he found out that there was only 1 creator - Abraham did not reveal that there was "God" per-say, but simply God said, " HEY! IM HERE!" and he knew he was there... So, technically speaking: Reason did not lead Abraham to God, it lead him to the idea of Monotheism. God just happened to say "look at me, your right"

ASH-Hikari

ASH-Hikari

I miss you MT <3

God created power. His power's infinite, It's not limited by anything and will never run out. He IS power. No one and nothing can have power if God doesn't give it to them.

Signature Image

Quote: if what he says is true, then that must mean he's lying, then that means all creteans do not lie, but if creteans do not lie, why he is saying all creteans lie?! well then, if he's lying, then what all creteans say are true. seeing that he is telling the truth, then all creteans (including him) is lying! and the circle goes on and on


Umm... you can't state that it's a circle, you can just state that cretean as a baka.

Quote: It's not the table's shadow, since according to the second principle the table does not cast its shadow through the statue. It's not the statue's shadow, because according to the third principle the statue is not illuminated, standing as it is in the table's shadow. But beware: because there's nothing else that can cast a shadow besides the table and the statue, it seems that the first principle is useless here. The suspicious Zone is a shadow, but it's not the shadow of any one object.
......"


I was careless to state some stuff here, sorry. Okay, we can "not" actually have one focused light. As you see, if there's an actual pure shadow, you should not be able to see anything within the shadow cause no light is emitted. The thing is, you do see something, correct? There's more than one light source.

Quote: I don't think paradoxes have anything to do with it.

That's why I have always said that Science and Religion don't have necessarely to be confrontated.

The reason is that God is not a showman, nor magician. He's not David Copperfield nor Bozo. He doesn't need to do it since everything in nature is complex enough to demostrate his power. I can't create life.

He created a very complex set of rules for the Universe to function, and the world will normally work under that logical, slow set of rules that we discover trougth Science.

God would do things that we'd call supernatural... but that requires either a lot of faith, or a total lackness of it. The motive, as happened in the Old Testament and with Jesus' miracles was to prove, in the first case, his power, and in the second, that he was truly the Messiah.

Why? Because if he considers it necesary, He can alter the same rules he wrote. Again, the example of a painter: He could alter and overlay figures in the paint.

So, as I wrote before, He wouldn't do the rock's thing. Is like asking a painter to do a drawing without pencils, carbons, pastels, or without any surface to draw over.

Remenber Satan tempting Jesus after fasting in hte desert? "You won't tempt God, your Lord"?

If god has such power to alter his rule, the only way to make it so there are no conflicting idea was to destroy all rules. Then, the problem is, life is no longer something to actually live in.

Quote: God created power. His power's infinite, It's not limited by anything and will never run out. He IS power. No one and nothing can have power if God doesn't give it to them.


Blind statement... don't like it.

?(/??)?
?? ???
????????
????????

hmmm before anyone goes further with " god can alter his rules" you need to define the nature of god. If god is something that is constantly changing, there will not be any kinds of standards by which we can judge what is right or not. Good no longer exists, and therefore Evil no longer exists. Exactly what dark said. However, your definition of God as a being that can change like a painter changes his painting is invalid. Sorry. (:P not to be cruel )

A creator of the universe must be an agent that is outside of the laws bound by human nature, or else he could not create the universe, for he is bound by those exact laws. Therefore, i propose that God is within something outside the physical. -- Metaphysical ( Outside of physics ) STUDY IT.

Now, once you understand that God is Metaphysical, he is no longer bound by rules that apply to natural laws. Therefore: God can alter his rules. However, THIS is WRONG he CANNOT


As i stated in many different articles: God is some sort of standard. If he is the creator, all things come from his idea, his thought, his production.

By God being a our standard, ( god - good - perfect ) he is a goal, by human understanding he is perfect. God is completely actualized as a being outside of the metaphysical realm.

Now: under the statement that god is perfect, he cannot alter his rules. His rules would already be perfect. The only way any " Altering" occurs is not truly " Altering " but discovery of more indepth truth.

Example: The understanding of elements:
Fire/water/earth/wind ----> gold/copper/etc w/e ----> Atoms -----> Neutrons electrons protons -----> however more detailed we humans can get.

So, through uncovering MORE in depth truths, we base our rules. However, god has never set any rules for us outside of our inclinations/instincts and nature. ( btw, humans dont have instincts b/c we can contemplate our existence and reflect. Animals cannot or are not proved to have any -- okhams razor ) or a more simple explination: Humans MUST breath some ammount of oxygen to survive, that is in our nature. We MUST Abide by the laws of gravity, etc etc...

With this in mind, because we uncover more detailed or in depth truths, we base our rules on them. Now: Humans are fallible, meaning our rules are not perfect, and therefore cannot abide by reality perfectly. Thus, our truths can change when new, more accurate truths are found/discovered/revealed.


Im not 100% sure if this answered any questions, but its just tidbits of information i found important to contribute to the understanding. NOTE: If you take Philosophy ( at an academic level, that isnt teaching history of philosophers ) you'd learn some of this information, if not all of it. Or if you read philosophy from < 1800's, before intellectual subjectivism, and moral relativism. I suggest reading on Logic and reasoning.

Quote by DarkRoseofHellIf god has such power to alter his rule, the only way to make it so there are no conflicting idea was to destroy all rules. Then, the problem is, life is no longer something to actually live in.

Hi again!

It's not necesary for a painter to repaint a whole portrait in order to cover a little dot.

I know you're not a believer, but have you ever wondered WHAT IS A MIRACLE?

A MIRACLE is nothing more than a NATURAL PHENOMENON, but THAT HAPPENS EXACTLY WHEN YOU NEED IT.

It doesn't need to be spectacular. It has happened to me. It happens mostly in the details. IT'S NOT NECESARY TO CHANGE THE WHOLE PICTURE TO MAKE A LITTLE AMMEND.

But a person can be cured from a mortal disease by accelerated natural mechanisms we don't fully understand, because is still far from our Science. That's when in the Vatican, the Congregation for the cause of the Saints, after exhaustive medical tests, declares a miracle.

As for the "being more eternal than eternity" and "more powerfull than omnipotent": God can't be. For an entity that fills all time and espace at once, and can manipulate all the laws of Physic (past, present and future), it has embraced all omnipotence.

It's like wanting a human being to grow more than 3 meters. His or her bones won't support the heigth and weigth. It would have to change its body structure, and wouldn't be human anymore. If God wanted to be more omnipotent, the laws of the Universe would have to change (perhaps, like opening the other hidden 6 dimensions trapped in the blackholes), and things wouldn't be as we know them now.

And, for some reason, God thinks that things are ok as they are rigth now. If not, as you said, truly life wouldn't be something like the we live in now.

See ya.

Sn34k3r

Sn34k3r

Slave to Itami-Chan *blink*

there is no God =)

And midst the lips and the curls
Of this cunt of a world
In glimpses I would see
A nymph with eyes for me

Quote by KeYYeK321hmmm before anyone goes further with " god can alter his rules" you need to define the nature of god. If god is something that is constantly changing, there will not be any kinds of standards by which we can judge what is right or not. Good no longer exists, and therefore Evil no longer exists. Exactly what dark said. However, your definition of God as a being that can change like a painter changes his painting is invalid. Sorry. (:P not to be cruel )

Hi. No, I don't think it's cruel.

Nature of God: He's PERFECT. So, He' ISN'T changing. He's the MOTOR THAT MOVES ALL THINGS, BUT THE MOTOR (GOD) DOESN'T MOVE). I don't remember who wrote that, but I think it was St. Thomas de Aquino. Now, NATURE CHANGES AND CAN BE CHANGED, not only by God, but by the own nature (massive extinctions) and Humans (Global Warming). Because it's not perfect, it's perfectible.

Quote by KeYYeK321A creator of the universe must be an agent that is outside of the laws bound by human nature, or else he could not create the universe, for he is bound by those exact laws. Therefore, i propose that God is within something outside the physical. -- Metaphysical ( Outside of physics ) STUDY IT.

Now, once you understand that God is Metaphysical, he is no longer bound by rules that apply to natural laws. Therefore: God can alter his rules. However, THIS is WRONG he CANNOT)

Yes, He's outside. But I propose you this: He can also move within His creation (something a painter can't do). Why? Because you propose a mathematian God, far from His Creation. What if I tell you HE'S NEAR, VERY CLOSE TO YOU? Waiting for you to notice He's practically under your nose? Maybe hidden in someone you know?

And, no, it's not wrong to once in while to change something. He wrote the laws. Ask a painter to make a portrait a-la-prima, but without correcting anything, one step from the top to the end. It's not a good example, because God interferes not to ammend imperfections, but to manifest love.

Quote by KeYYeK321Now: under the statement that god is perfect, he cannot alter his rules. His rules would already be perfect. The only way any " Altering" occurs is not truly " Altering " but discovery of more indepth truth.

Example: The understanding of elements:
Fire/water/earth/wind ----> gold/copper/etc w/e ----> Atoms -----> Neutrons electrons protons -----> however more detailed we humans can get.

As I wrote above, the creatures of God are NOT PERFECT, BUT PERFECTIBLE. Why? Because despite that the clusters of galaxies are something wonderfull, God's main goal are the Humans. Into his mind, a galaxy is not above you, because you're important. And you'd want to aspire TO BE MORE PERFECT. That's being perfectible, and that's the why nature isn't perfect.

Quote by KeYYeK321So, through uncovering MORE in depth truths, we base our rules. However, god has never set any rules for us outside of our inclinations/instincts and nature. ( btw, humans dont have instincts b/c we can contemplate our existence and reflect. Animals cannot or are not proved to have any -- okhams razor ) or a more simple explination: Humans MUST breath some ammount of oxygen to survive, that is in our nature. We MUST Abide by the laws of gravity, etc etc..

As I wrote to DarkRosefromHell above, He does miracles, NOT MAGIC. He doesn't need to change ALL OF OF NATURE to make a miraclous recovering from an illness. We could say that he likes things to follow logic, slow
changes. Miracles are only to show that He exists and cares.

By the way, life is a miracle per se. We, breathing, is a miracle. Evolution could be considered a true miracle of wonders. Imagine simple beings becomig more and more PERFECT, until you get... us.

By the way, we have instincts. But I didn't get the animal and razor thing. English is not my mother lenguage.


Quote by KeYYeK321With this in mind, because we uncover more detailed or in depth truths, we base our rules on them. Now: Humans are fallible, meaning our rules are not perfect, and therefore cannot abide by reality perfectly. Thus, our truths can change when new, more accurate truths are found/discovered/revealed.

Yes, because Science makes sharper tools every day to discover and rediscover things. That doesn't mean nature has changed in this little amount of time, but our understanding. But God remains as the motor of all things, and the motor doesn't move, but moves everything. Nature will change, that's for sure, because of the reasons writen above. But everything under a goal, a guide.

Quote by KeYYeK321Im not 100% sure if this answered any questions, but its just tidbits of information i found important to contribute to the understanding. NOTE: If you take Philosophy ( at an academic level, that isnt teaching history of philosophers ) you'd learn some of this information, if not all of it. Or if you read philosophy from < 1800's, before intellectual subjectivism, and moral relativism. I suggest reading on Logic and reasoning.

I'd have to take a Master's degree in Phylosophy :). I have studied Logic. But believe me, Logic isn't the answer to everything. Reasoning can fail, as the same Logic states thee could be false thoughs wonderfully state, and viceversa.

Bye

Quote: Hi again!

It's not necesary for a painter to repaint a whole portrait in order to cover a little dot.

I know you're not a believer, but have you ever wondered WHAT IS A MIRACLE?

A MIRACLE is nothing more than a NATURAL PHENOMENON, but THAT HAPPENS EXACTLY WHEN YOU NEED IT.

It doesn't need to be spectacular. It has happened to me. It happens mostly in the details. IT'S NOT NECESARY TO CHANGE THE WHOLE PICTURE TO MAKE A LITTLE AMMEND.

But a person can be cured from a mortal disease by accelerated natural mechanisms we don't fully understand, because is still far from our Science. That's when in the Vatican, the Congregation for the cause of the Saints, after exhaustive medical tests, declares a miracle.

As for the "being more eternal than eternity" and "more powerfull than omnipotent": God can't be. For an entity that fills all time and espace at once, and can manipulate all the laws of Physic (past, present and future), it has embraced all omnipotence.

It's like wanting a human being to grow more than 3 meters. His or her bones won't support the heigth and weigth. It would have to change its body structure, and wouldn't be human anymore. If God wanted to be more omnipotent, the laws of the Universe would have to change (perhaps, like opening the other hidden 6 dimensions trapped in the blackholes), and things wouldn't be as we know them now.

And, for some reason, God thinks that things are ok as they are rigth now. If not, as you said, truly life wouldn't be something like the we live in now.


Hehe, Hi I guess.

Well, here's one thing, for a painter to cover a dot, yes they can just cover it with something, but then once you start, the surrounding areas get affected in ways you don't like, and it keeps going like that. In order to fix something, it's really hard to fix it right in the middle of everything, example: lets put a game or something up, if they patch it because of a bug, another hole opens up because what the patch did, and it continues that way. Also, I don't know how this involves miracles...

Quote: As I wrote above, the creatures of God are NOT PERFECT, BUT PERFECTIBLE. Why? Because despite that the clusters of galaxies are something wonderfull, God's main goal are the Humans. Into his mind, a galaxy is not above you, because you're important. And you'd want to aspire TO BE MORE PERFECT. That's being perfectible, and that's the why nature isn't perfect.


No matter how perfect someone wants to get, perfection is unobtainable.

Somehow this thread just went off topic.

?(/??)?
?? ???
????????
????????

The question: " can god ever pose a question he cannot answer" leads back to his nature. So, to answer the question, one must deduce the nature of God. and thus far: he is perfect. So, following that, perfection requires not being able to change. Thus: Under the premise that God is perfect, he cannot pose questions he cannot answer, for he would not be perfect if he did.

The tangents we went off into is summed in that. the proof of god's perfection.

ProgramZERO

ProgramZERO

The Lost Generation

Quote by KeYYeK321The question: " can god ever pose a question he cannot answer" leads back to his nature. So, to answer the question, one must deduce the nature of God. and thus far: he is perfect. So, following that, perfection requires not being able to change. Thus: Under the premise that God is perfect, he cannot pose questions he cannot answer, for he would not be perfect if he did.

You don't understand. I'm asking that if God is truly omnipotent and omniscient, then he should be able to pose a question that he cannot answer. Now, since this is possible, is God then truly omni-potent and omni-scient since there exists things that he cannot answer or achieve? You guys are so off-topic.

Ladies and gentlemen, the above is a paradox. Some of you for whatever reason did not catch that. Such questions don't have answers since God is supposed to be omniscient and omnipotent.

merged: 02-10-2007 ~ 08:40am

Quote by mireya2I know you're not a believer, but have you ever wondered WHAT IS A MIRACLE?

A MIRACLE is nothing more than a NATURAL PHENOMENON, but THAT HAPPENS EXACTLY WHEN YOU NEED IT.

It doesn't need to be spectacular. It has happened to me. It happens mostly in the details. IT'S NOT NECESARY TO CHANGE THE WHOLE PICTURE TO MAKE A LITTLE AMMEND.

But a person can be cured from a mortal disease by accelerated natural mechanisms we don't fully understand, because is still far from our Science. That's when in the Vatican, the Congregation for the cause of the Saints, after exhaustive medical tests, declares a miracle.

Why haven't miracles occurred to someone with AIDS? No one has been cured of AIDS so doesn't that prove that miracles don't really happen?

Quote by mireya2As for the "being more eternal than eternity" and "more powerfull than omnipotent": God can't be.

So then he isn't all-powerful?

Quote by mireya2It's like wanting a human being to grow more than 3 meters. His or her bones won't support the heigth and weigth. It would have to change its body structure, and wouldn't be human anymore. If God wanted to be more omnipotent, the laws of the Universe would have to change (perhaps, like opening the other hidden 6 dimensions trapped in the blackholes), and things wouldn't be as we know them now.

Not sure you should be comparing human bones with God's powers. Not only that, God wouldn't have to change the "laws of the universe" since he is all-powerful and could do it without changing the "laws of the universe". That's the meaning of omni-potence.

BTW, what do you mean by laws of the universe? I never knew the universe had laws.

Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.

Quote by ProgramZERO

Quote by KeYYeK321The question: " can god ever pose a question he cannot answer" leads back to his nature. So, to answer the question, one must deduce the nature of God. and thus far: he is perfect. So, following that, perfection requires not being able to change. Thus: Under the premise that God is perfect, he cannot pose questions he cannot answer, for he would not be perfect if he did.

You don't understand. I'm asking that if God is truly omnipotent and omniscient, then he should be able to pose a question that he cannot answer. Now, since this is possible, is God then truly omni-potent and omni-scient since there exists things that he cannot answer or achieve? You guys are so off-topic.

Ladies and gentlemen, the above is a paradox. Some of you for whatever reason did not catch that. Such questions don't have answers since God is supposed to be omniscient and omnipotent.


har-de-har har. :P lol

I'm reasoning through the question to lead you to an answer of god's nature, posed by Thomas Aquinas. Whether its paradoxical or not is irrelevant to the reasoning behind the side you choose for the paradox.

but it is answerable: because you assume something that is not in the nature of god. you assume he can pose questions he cannot answer, when you already said he is perfect. you contradict yourself in your question. Perfection isnt omnipotent and omniscient, because perfection implies that you are also perfectly balanced, or perfectly virtuous.

But in anycase, it's all in fun, and i get credits for it! :D :D :D

ProgramZERO

ProgramZERO

The Lost Generation

Quote by KeYYeK321

Quote by ProgramZERO
You don't understand. I'm asking that if God is truly omnipotent and omniscient, then he should be able to pose a question that he cannot answer. Now, since this is possible, is God then truly omni-potent and omni-scient since there exists things that he cannot answer or achieve? You guys are so off-topic.

Ladies and gentlemen, the above is a paradox. Some of you for whatever reason did not catch that. Such questions don't have answers since God is supposed to be omniscient and omnipotent.


har-de-har har. :P lol

I'm reasoning through the question to lead you to an answer of god's nature, posed by Thomas Aquinas. Whether its paradoxical or not is irrelevant to the reasoning behind the side you choose for the paradox.

but it is answerable: because you assume something that is not in the nature of god. you assume he can pose questions he cannot answer, when you already said he is perfect. you contradict yourself in your question. Perfection isnt omnipotent and omniscient, because perfection implies that you are also perfectly balanced, or perfectly virtuous.

But in anycase, it's all in fun, and i get credits for it! :D :D :D

So then he isn't perfect since he CAN'T pose questions he can't answer.

Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.

he cant pose a question that he cannot answer because he is perfect, the argument goes the exact same way....

ok: so, the question itself, lets break this down. For the question to be a question at all, it must have a purpose. For the question to be something that god cannot answer, it must be above perfection, because God would not understand the question. Therefore, since the question is above perfection, the standard is moved to the question as being god OR the question does not exist, because there is nothing above perfection.

To boot, if there was a question he cannot answer, he is not the true "god" per say, as he isn't perfect. Thus, the question is null. and the cycle goes on... and on... and on... and on... and on.... but is answered simply by: The question itself is redundant, because there is no room for analysis, though u can break it off into different questions such as: " what is perfection", " what is the question" , "what is the nature of God", " what is God's Power" and " What is the purpose."

And basically, i've been trying to answer tangent questions to the paradoxical question.

Similar to my other posts: " RAWR" lol " fear the tangent!"

Quote: Why haven't miracles occurred to someone with AIDS? No one has been cured of AIDS so doesn't that prove that miracles don't really happen?


Considering miracles of AIDS, there have been some, some people have white bloodcells that actually can fight off HIV and not get infected by it and gain immunity.

Just to go upon the whole miracle thing, god himself should not be the one causing miracles. Okay, consider if god did create everything, every piece of matter and every law. If so, god himself "would" not cross his own boundaries. Think of it this way, if a king were to make a new rule, lets say everyone can not eat tofu (bit stupid but yeah). If he goes and eat's tofu, the king would be considerably a hypocrite. Now, if god was to cross his own rules, he'd be considered a hypocrite and if he did so, then he's not really the type of god you'd want to look upon to anyways.

KeYYeK321, you're getting a tad weird around this place >.>.

There's not exactly a "tangible" question to a paradox. A paradox can not be answered...

Example, (considerably famous one and not by me) If I were to get from this point, to that point, you'd have to cross half of it, but then you'd have to cross half of the half, and blah blah blah. This shows how motion really doesn't seem possible, but somehow yet it does (we've got answers for these now >.> go figure). Yet it really still doesn't explain everything abouit it.

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ProgramZERO

ProgramZERO

The Lost Generation

Quote by DarkRoseofHellConsidering miracles of AIDS, there have been some, some people have white bloodcells that actually can fight off HIV and not get infected by it and gain immunity.

That's not a miracle. That's a genetic mutation. I'm talking about CURING AIDS.

Quote by DarkRoseofHellJust to go upon the whole miracle thing, god himself should not be the one causing miracles. Okay, consider if god did create everything, every piece of matter and every law. If so, god himself "would" not cross his own boundaries. Think of it this way, if a king were to make a new rule, lets say everyone can not eat tofu (bit stupid but yeah). If he goes and eat's tofu, the king would be considerably a hypocrite. Now, if god was to cross his own rules, he'd be considered a hypocrite and if he did so, then he's not really the type of god you'd want to look upon to anyways.

Isn't God supposed to be the ultimate authority in existence? He doesn't have to follow his own rules.

Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.

Quote: That's not a miracle. That's a genetic mutation. I'm talking about CURING AIDS.


The fact that people can fight off HIV has lured people (scientist) to study this and find methods of using this knowledge to cure AIDS.

Quote: Isn't God supposed to be the ultimate authority in existence? He doesn't have to follow his own rules.


He doesn't have to, but why shouldn't he? No one wants to be called a hypocrite. Even if god doesn't bide by his own rules, would you then be considered a good person?

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Does God exist? Yes.

Can it be proven? Yes, it is proven everyday. But a big part of believeing in God or in any religion is faith...and as it says in the movie, "Faith is believing in something that common sense tells you not to."

As far as power is concerned. I would think that since God is all powerful, all knowing, and always present, and since he has planned all things and knows what is to happen, I would think that His power would always be ahead. If we grow, so does He. No matter how powerful we, (or anything,) becomes, He will always be ahead of it. so yes, His power can increase as it needs to.

Can God make 1+1=242458? If one day for God can be as 1000 years for us, then of course he could make 1+1=more than 2. According to Genesis, God created the world in 6 days...maybe those 6 days are to = 6000 years or 60,000 years. Just because we calculate our day in 24 hour hour increments, doesnt mean God calculates the same way. Even today, depending what calendar is used, the year is different. ie., Chinese calendar, Hebrew calendar, etc etc.

Quote: Can God make 1+1=242458? If one day for God can be as 1000 years for us, then of course he could make 1+1=more than 2. According to Genesis, God created the world in 6 days...maybe those 6 days are to = 6000 years or 60,000 years. Just because we calculate our day in 24 hour hour increments, doesnt mean God calculates the same way. Even today, depending what calendar is used, the year is different. ie., Chinese calendar, Hebrew calendar, etc etc.


To make 1+1 = something else, it defies logic, and logic is something that humans should have in common.
If logic was not present, then we won't be at this point of state.

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