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God's Power...

Can he?

Yes
18 votes
No
21 votes
Head explodes
20 votes

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ProgramZERO

ProgramZERO

The Lost Generation

Quote by DarkRoseofHell

Quote: That's not a miracle. That's a genetic mutation. I'm talking about CURING AIDS.


The fact that people can fight off HIV has lured people (scientist) to study this and find methods of using this knowledge to cure AIDS.

That's not a miracle. Miracles can't be explained. Mutations can be explained.

Quote by DarkRoseofHellHe doesn't have to, but why shouldn't he?

Why should he? All he has to declare since he makes all the rules is that he doesn't have to follow the rules.

Quote by DarkRoseofHellNo one wants to be called a hypocrite. Even if god doesn't bide by his own rules, would you then be considered a good person?

If God were to declare "I don't have to follow my own rules", then he would not run the risk of hypocrisy. BTW, I don't consider God to be completely good. With all the s*** the human race confronts on a daily basis (especially in third-world countries), I would start to think that God doesn't care.

Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.

hmmmm to tell the truth, the human race goes through all this 's***' on a daily basis because we choose to do the things we do. In the cases of Third-world countries, its because they are in debt to the so called " super" or "First -world" countries that they are in such poor states ( yes, there are many other factors aswell, such as natural causes - earthquakes, floods,etc..). Economical choices, and money balancing caused the world to be the way it is. Humans choose to do the things we do, no one forces us to.

God not caring, is different than god piling a bunch of money and food to people.

As for disease and viruses, they are caused by micro organisms. They do whatever they do to insure their own survival, it is a good thing for them, a bad thing for us. It just the way living works, everything alive must die... ( unless you know a immortal... its a cruel world... )

ttwen

ttwen

somebody

okay DarkRoseofHell... the shadow thing... i think u r confused.. but i wont further discuss it since its out of topic ^^''
i can pm u if u wan my explainations

Quote: He doesn't have to, but why shouldn't he? No one wants to be called a hypocrite. Even if god doesn't bide by his own rules, would you then be considered a good person?

why do we feel guilty? because we have done something wrong? maybe. but a better answer is : because we have broken God's rule, which is according to God's logic which makes up his 'rules' BUT unlike angels, he gave us the will to choose to follow or not those 'rules'. ok. why guilty? we fear 'he/she' will find out what we did something we are told no to do.
etc : a kid stealin' money (large amount) from his parents (for the first time, maybe) then he will get this uneasy feeling when he talks to his parents(guilt).

we are born knowing the rules of God. that's why there are laws on crimes in every countries. anyway what im trying to say is we live in God's rules and regulations. anything wrong we will feel it (for a regular person, any religion).
if he's gonna change the 'rules' then our logic on 'rights' and 'wrongs' will change.

ProgramZero : im sorry but asking can he be more powerful than himself is measuring his power. (well that's how i see the question)

Quote: "Can God pose a question that even he could never answer?"


^^'' well i guess this might be a better question or is this questioning his wisdom?
well nevermind as long as we are happy

Quote by DarkRoseofHellSomehow this thread just went off topic.

Quote by DarkRoseofHellAlso, I don't know how this involves miracles...

Hello!

Well, it was because one of your past statements: that to break a rule, God had to break with ALL of the rules of the Universe.

And MIRACLES came in other because they are God pulling the strings without having to undone and redo the whole fabric.

Quote by DarkRoseofHell
Well, here's one thing, for a painter to cover a dot, yes they can just cover it with something, but then once you start, the surrounding areas get affected in ways you don't like, and it keeps going like that. In order to fix something, it's really hard to fix it right in the middle of everything, example: lets put a game or something up, if they patch it because of a bug, another hole opens up because what the patch did, and it continues that way.

The Mona Lisa has a lot of patchwork. Also the Sixtine Chapel. Any masterwork has patchs (it's impossible to make a paint without overimposing layers). But has happens with the masterworks, there's no wrong that can't be done by anyone without being reverted, sooner or later, to God's most glory.

I know how that last line sounds. But to me, it's not being fanatical, but the truth. It's the Jesuit's motto, and even Tolkien wrote it in "The Silmarillion".

Quote by DarkRoseofHellNo matter how perfect someone wants to get, perfection is unobtainable.

Tht's why we aren't perfect. We're PERFECTIBLE. Aspiring to the perfection, getting better and better no matter that true perfection is never achieved.

k well im not sure how perfectible beings got into this... but i think someone misinterpreted what i said...
just to note: I never said humans were perfect... i think. but someone please fill me in on this tangent, because your all assuming that the purpose of human begins is to be perfect, and i'd like someone to just prove it without using god, basically, use reasoning or logic to explain it. ( I can, but i want to see if you deduce the same way...)

Quote: The Mona Lisa has a lot of patchwork. Also the Sixtine Chapel. Any masterwork has patchs (it's impossible to make a paint without overimposing layers). But has happens with the masterworks, there's no wrong that can't be done by anyone without being reverted, sooner or later, to God's most glory.

I know how that last line sounds. But to me, it's not being fanatical, but the truth. It's the Jesuit's motto, and even Tolkien wrote it in "The Silmarillion".


But it's not perfect. It may be a masterpiece, but it's not perfect.

Quote: Tht's why we aren't perfect. We're PERFECTIBLE. Aspiring to the perfection, getting better and better no matter that true perfection is never achieved.


I don't know why, but striving perfection is being asked to be shot. There's too much desire in trying to be perfect and leading to a downfall.

Quote: why do we feel guilty? because we have done something wrong? maybe. but a better answer is : because we have broken God's rule, which is according to God's logic which makes up his 'rules' BUT unlike angels, he gave us the will to choose to follow or not those 'rules'. ok. why guilty? we fear 'he/she' will find out what we did something we are told no to do.
etc : a kid stealin' money (large amount) from his parents (for the first time, maybe) then he will get this uneasy feeling when he talks to his parents(guilt).

we are born knowing the rules of God. that's why there are laws on crimes in every countries. anyway what im trying to say is we live in God's rules and regulations. anything wrong we will feel it (for a regular person, any religion).
if he's gonna change the 'rules' then our logic on 'rights' and 'wrongs' will change.


We aren't born knowing the rules of god. We don't even know what his true intentions are. If you want, look into the bible, but it's written by human hands, can you truly say we know god's intentions? Also, this has nothing to do with guilt. I'm stating more of reputation line. Considering god seems to like being worshipped, would you want to worship someone that destroys rules?

Quote: That's not a miracle. Miracles can't be explained. Mutations can be explained.


What I mean is, like people were always afraid of HIV and what not correct? To actually finally have a chance of curing it and thinking that it is something that could not be cured, would that not be miracle?

Quote: If God were to declare "I don't have to follow my own rules", then he would not run the risk of hypocrisy. BTW, I don't consider God to be completely good. With all the s*** the human race confronts on a daily basis (especially in third-world countries), I would start to think that God doesn't care.


I have to agree with that. Most people consider god as omnibenevolent and what not, but I just think that it's not even true to the most part. If god were to declare that he doesn't follow his own rule, well it rules out him being omnibenevolent.

So... much... oh well XD

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ProgramZERO

ProgramZERO

The Lost Generation

Quote by DarkRoseofHellWhat I mean is, like people were always afraid of HIV and what not correct? To actually finally have a chance of curing it and thinking that it is something that could not be cured, would that not be miracle?

No, that would be scientific research. It CAN be explained. If someone's head were to be exploded into 35 pieces and it suddenly regenerated in front of our eyes, THAT would be a miracle because I'll tell you right now, that would FREAK ME OUT! :D

Quote:
I have to agree with that. Most people consider god as omnibenevolent and what not, but I just think that it's not even true to the most part. If god were to declare that he doesn't follow his own rule, well it rules out him being omnibenevolent.

So... much... oh well XD

LOL! I personally think that as rational human beings, theist or otherwise, it is only through hard-work and cooperation that we can truly achieve great things. Unfortunately, the path to peace and prosperity is different to different people.

Not all human hearts beat the same.

-Green Day>Jesus of Suburbia :D

Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.

Quote: No, that would be scientific research. It CAN be explained. If someone's head were to be exploded into 35 pieces and it suddenly regenerated in front of our eyes, THAT would be a miracle because I'll tell you right now, that would FREAK ME OUT! :D


1. I don't wanna see a head explode and regenerate, that'd gross me out and freak me out too.
2. For people to get aids but have a considerably "good" mutation to protect themself from it.
3. A miracle is a happening that happens at the best time possible.

Quote: Not all human hearts beat the same.


My heart beats the same as everyone. Okay no it doesn't, that'd be scary.

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ProgramZERO

ProgramZERO

The Lost Generation

Quote by DarkRoseofHell
1. I don't wanna see a head explode and regenerate, that'd gross me out and freak me out too.
2. For people to get aids but have a considerably "good" mutation to protect themself from it.
3. A miracle is a happening that happens at the best time possible.


1. I've seen a guys face blasted away with a shotgun before... not a pretty sight... o_0
2. Well, again, that's not a miracle.
3. No, a miracle is an occurence that cannot be explained.

Quote by DarkRoseofHell
My heart beats the same as everyone. Okay no it doesn't, that'd be scary.

What I meant by that is that not all humans can get along. It's a tragic fact of life. :(

Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.

Quote: What I meant by that is that not all humans can get along. It's a tragic fact of life. :(


I know T.T

Quote: 1. I've seen a guys face blasted away with a shotgun before... not a pretty sight...o_0
2. Well, again, that's not a miracle.
3. No, a miracle is an occurence that cannot be explained.


Well, I guess it really just depends on what you think of miracle >.> oh well whatever XD

I DON'T WANNA SEE SOMEONE'S HEAD BLOWN OFF EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

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ProgramZERO

ProgramZERO

The Lost Generation

Quote: I DON'T WANNA SEE SOMEONE'S HEAD BLOWN OFF EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

LOL! It was more like facial surgery with a shotgun but it's just as disgusting! >_<

Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.

! Facial Surgery on shotgun wounds to the FACE hahahahahhahahahah Boom HEADSHOT!

Umm... so... facial surgery, with a shotgun. EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW I don't wanna know what it even can look like.

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ProgramZERO

ProgramZERO

The Lost Generation

It was a suicide attempt but the guy ended up reducing his face into a "blood bowl" so to speak. In other words, the image I saw was of a man with a pool of blood for a face (he was lying face-up in the picture). Not too pretty. If you are squeamish, don't ask me where you could find this image.

Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.

I am not so squeamish, but I bet I will be if I saw that picture. Also EWW blood bowl... (that's nasty beyond reason)

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God or Mother Nature, they are the same if you think of them literally as someone who creates. The cycle of events and things that happens in our life, world, nature, tells there's a master-mind behind all this whether you call it God -who decides & organizes- or mother nature -who spins the world sensibly-. For me what matters is that there's someone or something in background that makes things reasonable and purposeful although sometimes we might not be able understand it. I go with both coz I believe this words can be interchangable.


merged: 02-15-2007 ~ 04:17pm
Ooops! I was supposed to answer to two threads in this forum and post the worng answer to yours! Sorry! ^_^' Anyways, your question is quite confusing. We generally call someone God who's infinte power. How can someone who's infinte go beyond himself? On the other hand if someone who cannot go beyong his powers cannot be considered god! :hmpf:

Isn't it like asking which number is infinite? +oo?
There will never be a static number because +oo itself is not static. It is a number M, greater than any number M you can imagine. Which means, every time you try to imagine a great number at the same time there will be a greater. That's +oo.

In a same way, god's power is infinite. If you think that God's power has a limit, then at the same time God's power exceeds that limit.

(All that of course, if you perceive God as a being of infinite power :D)

ProgramZERO

ProgramZERO

The Lost Generation

Quote by GreomerIn a same way, god's power is infinite. If you think that God's power has a limit, then at the same time God's power exceeds that limit.

If God exceeded that limit then it obviously wasn't a limit in the first place. You contradict yourself.

Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.

Quote: Isn't it like asking which number is infinite? +oo?
There will never be a static number because +oo itself is not static. It is a number M, greater than any number M you can imagine. Which means, every time you try to imagine a great number at the same time there will be a greater. That's +oo.

In a same way, god's power is infinite. If you think that God's power has a limit, then at the same time God's power exceeds that limit.

(All that of course, if you perceive God as a being of infinite power :D)


You're spamming. Please read before posting. Also think through what you post...

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Spamming?
I thought the question was whether God's power was infinite and whether he could be more powerful than himself.
Well I show you how it can be infinite...imagine that God is +oo. If you understand what i mean then it's pretty clear, if not then ....yes...i'm spamming. :|

Quote: Spamming?
I thought the question was whether God's power was infinite and whether he could be more powerful than himself.
Well I show you how it can be infinite...imagine that God is +oo. If you understand what i mean then it's pretty clear, if not then ....yes...i'm spamming. :|


If you had read what we've posted, we've clearly already stated that God can not be omnipotent mainly cause of the paradoxes omnipotency creates...

Yes you're still spamming, it kind of shows more of how you joined a week and a half ago.

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Well, if you think that way then i stop writing.
However, i think you are wrong to try to limit God's power within your knowledge. Because speaking about god means that you accept his abilities. You try to speak about God from your point of view and how you imagine him be. Well, good luck in your search.
Afer all, i am a newbie...:|

Quote: Well, if you think that way then i stop writing.
However, i think you are wrong to try to limit God's power within your knowledge. Because speaking about god means that you accept his abilities. You try to speak about God from your point of view and how you imagine him be. Well, good luck in your search.
Afer all, i am a newbie...:|


I'm atheist... What do you mean by search, and when you speak about god, especially if you don't believe him, you do not have to accept his abilities...

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Well, you say his power is infinite, but if you ever took Calculus, you know that two infinities are not equal.

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