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Quote by YRPNovaWell, you say his power is infinite, but if you ever took Calculus, you know that two infinities are not equal.
I have taken calculus before but we have never given numbers to the concept of infinity so no, we can't compare infinity to infinity.
Love your avatar though. Osaka rules!
Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.
He can't, because we see God as the ultimate power, greatest of the great. So...if he became more powerful, that's not becoming "more powerful than himself" that's just his powers increasing. ^^; right?
Quote: He can't, because we see God as the ultimate power, greatest of the great. So...if he became more powerful, that's not becoming "more powerful than himself" that's just his powers increasing. ^^; right?
I can assume that you haven't read anything in this thread. If god was such "ultimate" or omnipotent
power, he has the ability to be more powerful than himself. If so, it goes to infinity, now such thing has problems. If
so, he then has the ability to do stuff he himself can not do. Such as, pose a question he does not know, create
something he can not carry.
?(/??)?
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Quote by SunNoodleHe can't, because we see God as the ultimate power, greatest of the great. So...if he became more powerful, that's not becoming "more powerful than himself" that's just his powers increasing. ^^; right?
So you agree? He cannot become more powerful than himself? That's not the definition of omni-potent if you ask me.
Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.
You're asking if God can become more powerful than himself. That is something God knows and we don't. I think most people (like me) believes God is omnipotent, the Alpha and the Omega. This is something no human piece of a puzzle logic could comprehend. And my last sentence applies to all humans. Why would God need to be stronger than He is if the universe is beneath him? We can't comprehend infinity logically or mathematically cuz there is no end, and we can't comprehend God's power becuz he is the alpha/omega.
Religion won't die. If you're an atheist, concepts of dieties and the idea of God will endure. I mean, isn't it why people are believers and non-believers?!
Yeah.... Credits to Elena (Toya999) for the sig, err the avatar.
Quote by A-10hybridYou're asking if God can become more powerful than himself. That is something God knows and we don't. I think most people (like me) believes God is omnipotent, the Alpha and the Omega. This is something no human piece of a puzzle logic could comprehend. And my last sentence applies to all humans. Why would God need to be stronger than He is if the universe is beneath him? We can't comprehend infinity logically or mathematically cuz there is no end, and we can't comprehend God's power becuz he is the alpha/omega.
Religion won't die. If you're an atheist, concepts of dieties and the idea of God will endure. I mean, isn't it why people are believers and non-believers?!
But the cocepts us humans apply to God are fully understandable. Omni-potence means that God can do ANYTHING which is untrue because he can't be more powerful than himself. It's a paradox whether you look at it from heaven or Earth.
Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.
Quote by ProgramZERO But the cocepts us humans apply to God are fully understandable. Omni-potence means that God can do ANYTHING which is untrue because he can't be more powerful than himself. It's a paradox whether you look at it from heaven or Earth.
Man, I'm sorry to say this, but the real problem with this "paradox" is that you won't accept any explanation. Any.
If you are to believe that God made the universe, and it developed during zillions of years to the point of producing intelligent beings, what more power do you want to be displayed?
But the real problem is that you want to see everything "macro", when the real thing lies in the "micro". Want to see God being allmigthy? Watch a baby, a leaf, or a sunset. Watch the stars (really, if you stay long enough in a place dark enough, is a sure bet you'll see something strange).
What I want to say, is that we can spent our lives here in bizantine discussions, but if you really want to probe that God exists or not, you have to go out and find it. Where? In the people.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to preach to you (far be from me to be so disrespectfull), I'm telling what worked out for me. Oh, the best part is that after you try to find out, you won't be able to prove that he exist or not. Because it's a personal experience.
Here: I found out that he exists. How? Working with the children. Just by working with the children? No, but it was in that context. See? it's subjetive. It won't convince you. Have I made studies about religion? Yes (I'm a Catholic catequist) not the big deal, tough. But even all the knowdledge in the universe won't convince you, because it's a personal experience.
It's nothing you can get in a debate. It's a personal experience because THAT WAY IS AT THE REACH OF EVERYBODY, the intelectual and the ignorant. If it weren't that way, only the theologists (as the gnostics claimed in the past, and some sects that base EVERYTHING in the study of the Bible do today), would be able to get to know him.
By the way: the older you get, the hardest it becomes. That doesn't mean it results. It could be even painful, but it enrichens your life.
See? My best advice I can give. I know it's very subjetive, quite imperfect, but it's not that easy to debate, because everyone has to find out his/her own way.
See you.
Ummm just to state something, a paradox should not have an explanation, actually it can not gain an explanation. It is a
paradox... a paradox should be a concept, idea or whatever that contradicts itself if you go one way or the other.
Quote: (really, if you stay long enough in a place dark enough, is a sure bet you'll see something strange).
It depends on how dark and how long, it's true you'll start seeing something strange, one reason is because
your eye is trying to fixate to light and it doesn't have a lot to do with this.
Quote: What I want to say, is that we can spent our lives here in bizantine discussions, but if you really want to probe that God exists or not, you have to go out and find it. Where? In the people.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to preach to you (far be from me to be so disrespectfull), I'm telling what worked out for me. Oh, the best part is that after you try to find out, you won't be able to prove that he exist or not. Because it's a personal experience.
Just to state, technically if humanity wasn't born to seek reasoning, the concept of god wouldn't have been
developed, so to search in people is actually kind of wrong. Because how we humans are, we seek stuff to fit the hole
but it doesn't necessarily deem true.
?(/??)?
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????????
For me, this question is another of religion paradoxes, BUT if we state that God is allmighty, the he can be at the same
time more powerful than himself and more powerful than himself... Yes, I know it is kind of without sense but I hope you
get what I mean.
In time I learned that such disscusions with believers don't have too much sense, because they just believe and no
argument can change this. I don't say it is bad - it is just my observation.
I am the conformer, the bright sunlight that wipes all sorrow.
Quote by mireya2Man, I'm sorry to say this, but the real problem with this "paradox" is that you won't accept any explanation. Any.
Because a paradox doesn't have an explanation.
Quote: If you are to believe that God made the universe, and it developed during zillions of years to the point of producing intelligent beings, what more power do you want to be displayed?
I'm not asking for God to display his powers, I'm just questioning the concepts surrounding his powers.
Quote: But the real problem is that you want to see everything "macro", when the real thing lies in the "micro". Want to see God being allmigthy? Watch a baby, a leaf, or a sunset. Watch the stars (really, if you stay long enough in a place dark enough, is a sure bet you'll see something strange).
? What does a baby, a sunset, and a leaf have to do with anything? And stars are stars no matter how long you look at them.
Quote: What I want to say, is that we can spent our lives here in bizantine discussions, but if you really want to probe that God exists or not, you have to go out and find it. Where? In the people.
"The people" have differing views of God. You do know that different religions exist don't you?
Quote: Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to preach to you (far be from me to be so disrespectfull), I'm telling what worked out for me. Oh, the best part is that after you try to find out, you won't be able to prove that he exist or not. Because it's a personal experience.
You can preach to whomever you want. I don't care. Unless they told you to stop or something.
Quote: Here: I found out that he exists. How? Working with the children. Just by working with the children? No, but it was in that context. See? it's subjetive. It won't convince you. Have I made studies about religion? Yes (I'm a Catholic catequist) not the big deal, tough. But even all the knowdledge in the universe won't convince you, because it's a personal experience.
Yes, and
I have read of many diseases and afflictions that can affect babies and children and you know what, it tells me that
there is either no God or this God doesn't care. You use the environment as evidence of God's existence but I
can just as well say that the harsh and unforgiving environment and harmful micro-organisms is proof that God
doesn't care or that he isn't there.
BTW, I was once Catholic so I know where you are coming from.
Quote: It's nothing you can get in a debate. It's a personal experience because THAT WAY IS AT THE REACH OF EVERYBODY.
It's at the reach of everybody because parents preach it to children. Christianity, in particular, spread itself at the tip of a sword to other peoples and cultures who already had their own religions and Gods.
Quote: By the way: the older you get, the hardest it becomes. That doesn't mean it results. It could be even painful, but it enrichens your life.
What? Conversion? No, I'm not planning on converting anytime soon and not even at my deathbed shall I convert.
Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.
I refuse to acknowldge his existence. If he was there, let him use his power more effectively like cleaning up the biggest mistake of his existence....the absolute viral garbage that is humanity
Quote by DrakenImmortalI refuse to acknowldge his existence. If he was there, let him use his power more effectively like cleaning up the biggest mistake of his existence....the absolute viral garbage that is humanity
That's the biggest problem with an all-loving, all-powerful God. If he was truly both, the world wouldn't suck as much. "Evil" wouldn't exist. The world doesn't seem that way.
Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.
There is no limit to God's power. :)
Quote by XicerSaiyajinThere is no limit to God's power. :)
What do you mean by there being no limit? Do you mean that there is nothing he can't do?
Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.
God is God....he has infinite power beyond human minds.Ask God yourself when you die...no really, thats the way to find out.(but if u wanna ask god the question,make sure ur saved)
Quote by kingray100God is God....he has infinite power beyond human minds.Ask God yourself when you die...no really, thats the way to find out.(but if u wanna ask god the question,make sure ur saved)
Saved from what?
Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.
Quote by ProgramZERO
Quote by kingray100God is God....he has infinite power beyond human minds.Ask God yourself when you die...no really, thats the way to find out.(but if u wanna ask god the question,make sure ur saved)
Saved from what?
Saved from eternal damnation because God's sadistic and likes to allow suffering for no good reason.
for wut i know, read n believe, God can do anything bcoz he's perfect! dont think that He's the same as u, who can n cant do something.
that's a narrow-minded, alex
bcoz u want reasons for anything, so that u can believe. wut He thinks isnt the same as us, that's why we cant
alwayz understand wut He does for us.
Quote by priincessfor wut i know, read n believe, God can do anything bcoz he's perfect! dont think that He's the same as u, who can n cant do something.
Ummm...... yeah, no, i mean.
I think you have missed the point that humans can't comprehend what perfect is so therefor God as in the Christian terms is either impossible or imperfect.
merged: 07-26-2007 ~ 02:11am
Quote by priincess
that's a narrow-minded, alex
bcoz u want reasons for anything, so that u can believe. wut He thinks isnt the same as us, that's why we cant alwayz understand wut He does for us.
Yes i think reasons are a good thing don't you? Without reasons i could go up to someone and kill them, and i wouldn't be questioned.
And you assume God is a he, if god is omnipresent/ominpowerful then the term he would be irrelevant and incorrect, because the term he would mean God would have too mate correct? or would have to have been born of something. Therefor making God not omnipowerful or omnipresent.
The only thing that a God at this time is born of is of humans themselves. If there is a God we don't know of it, or comprehend it.
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Quote by priincessfor wut i know, read n believe, God can do anything bcoz he's perfect! dont think that He's the same as u, who can n cant do something.
Could he come up with a question that even he couldn't answer? Could he destroy himself? Is he capable of that?
Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.
yeah people keep askin bout the proves, fo' people who have narrow minded like u! it's bcoz we're humans,
who cant believe if there isnt any proves.
if u read the bibble-well, if u're Christian- n if u believe God 100%, He will show Himself, i mean at least His
voice, to u. hey wrong zero,
He would never ask bcoz He knows evrything
He destroy Himself? arhh, that's a difficult one to answer
i dun kno bout that, the Bibble says nothing bout it. but if He can, he doesnt -or wont- do it, bcoz He wants to help
us, He's our creator
Quote by priincessyeah people keep askin bout the proves, fo' people who have narrow minded like u! it's bcoz we're humans, who cant believe if there isnt any proves.
Hey, if someone accused you of murdering someone, you would expect
them to come up with evidence.
Quote: if u read the bibble-well, if u're Christian- n if u believe God 100%, He will show Himself, i mean at least His voice, to u.
Yes, IF you're Christian.
Quote: hey wrong zero, He would never ask bcoz He knows evrything
Well, since he knows everything, he should know of a question that he couldn't answer.
I hope you can see the paradox in that.
Quote: He destroy Himself? arhh, that's a difficult one to answer
i dun kno bout that, the Bibble says nothing bout it. but if He can, he doesnt -or wont- do it, bcoz He wants to help us, He's our creator
Okay... But isn't he indestructible!? o_0
Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.
Quote by ProgramZERO
Quote by priincessyeah people keep askin bout the proves, fo' people who have narrow minded like u! it's bcoz we're humans, who cant believe if there isnt any proves.
Hey, if someone accused you of murdering someone, you would expect them to come up with evidence.
Quote: if u read the bibble-well, if u're Christian- n if u believe God 100%, He will show Himself, i mean at least His voice, to u.
Yes, IF you're Christian.
Quote: hey wrong zero, He would never ask bcoz He knows evrything
Well, since he knows everything, he should know of a question that he couldn't answer. I hope you can see the paradox in that.
Quote: He destroy Himself? arhh, that's a difficult one to answer
i dun kno bout that, the Bibble says nothing bout it. but if He can, he doesnt -or wont- do it, bcoz He wants to help us, He's our creatorOkay... But isn't he indestructible!? o_0
If u arent Christians, u can read bible too, that's not a sin.
bcoz it's better than not reading it.
yeah, He knows that there's no questions He cant answer. is it a paradox too? -_-' bcoz He starts evrything, so how come He's asking bout wut He does? He knows wut will He does next, plans r so clear in His minds, so wut r questions for? yep, He's undestructible, n why He wants to destruct Himself? that's a weird question.
Quote by priincess
If u arent Christians, u can read bible too, that's not a sin.
bcoz it's better than not reading it.
yeah, He knows that there's no questions He cant answer. is it a paradox too? -_-' bcoz He starts evrything, so how come He's asking bout wut He does? He knows wut will He does next, plans r so clear in His minds, so wut r questions for? yep, He's undestructible, n why He wants to destruct Himself? that's a weird question.
So if he knows that there is no question he can't answer then he isn't
omni-scient since he can't know of a question he doesn't know. Catching my drift?
And I'm not saying that he would want to destroy himself, I'm asking if he could.
Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.
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