Conventional Arts: Is it dead?

Conventional Arts: Dead Or Alive?

Yeah, pretty much.
2 votes
Sadly, no.
6 votes
Still thriving, but sooner or later, they'll go down the drain.
5 votes
Uh... I like my hair. :D
5 votes

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shinshinovi

shinshinovi

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I was wondering... is conventional arts dead?
I know that I'm a newbie here, about at least, 3-4 months since I joined Minitokyo, but I observed that almost all artworks submitted here in MT has been 'enhanced' by Image Photoshops like Adobe.

Wait, maybe you don't have ANY IDEA what 'conventional art' is? Well, for those who have not been born into this world yet, 'conventional artwork' refers to an image drawn, painted, or created the conventional way, meaning, it has been done ON HAND. No enhancements via computers, nor neon paints, etc. Just plain, simple artwork done on paper. And I'm not talking about paintings done by the likes of well-known painters (though they can be considered as such), but on the current genre offered by 'oriental' artists: Anime and Manga. You may add western styles if you want, but heck, we're talking about Conventional Arts here.

Okay, now that I gave the lamest explanation on what 'conventional arts' is, let's go back to my stupid question:

"Conventional Arts: Is it dead?" And no, sorry, no girls in bikini for you, sadly. Can't afford lately.

Even I, I'll have to admit, that some of my artworks *just click my name and check my works, 2 PC-enchanced, and 1 conventional (pencil) artwork* have been 'edited' for viewing pleasure. But heck, everytime I start drawing on my paper, I try to think, "Heck, should I really let that stupid Adobe Photoshop 7 wreck my sacred artwork?" But then again, the other part of my membrane suggests that I'm nuts, and that I should take tranquilisers.

Kidding aside, I saw some artists here in the Philippines drawing convetionally, and after that, they color it via their trusty CS3. That could be good, but nothing amazes me more when an artists draws for me an artwork drawn, colored, and smoothened for me in plain view, his/her trusty hands doing magic, creating life on paper, making him/her a god in his/her own right. But that was then... but now...

...so, whaddayathink?
Reader: "I think you're nuts."
Me: "T__T"

And yeah, if you're clueless, just answer "I like my hair". Too bad I don't. :P /joke

PS. Regarding Poll Question No. 2, it should have been stated as "Of Course, Dimwit!", not what has been written earlier. Must be the sulfur in the air...

Sparda's missing Teacher. No MSG added. pH 9.5.

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well I think that their are still artists that draw by hand but it's because technology that there is more CG artwork and not everyone can draw by hand so they rely on the mouse and the computer XD

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Why didn't you put an option for us who think that conventional art is not dying? o.o "Sadly, no" <-- that says that it is not dead, but I don't agree with the "sadly" part.

Though the modern techniques allow us to enhance or create entirely a fine, excellent pieces of art, like the ones we enjoy here in MiniTokyo, there are still many skilled people in the world, haven't you seen other art sites? There are excellent people who still draw by hand only and they make works as excellent as those made in CG style! ^^ Check them out (I cannot mention any of these sites, but you will find out).

I am a hand-made drawer myself, and I have a few of my pieces here at MT, but I decided not to submit them anymore because of lack of critics or comments, but this is still a great art site for those skilled on CGI style.

So, even if I didn't vote, my opinion is that conventional art it's not dead neither dying at all. On the contrary, CGI art needs conventional art skills ^^

  • Mar 04, 2007

MapleRose

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MapleRose

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nope, not dead. And agree with Elven-Inccubus that you should've put an option there for us who think it's not dying (and I don't agree with the 'sadly' part either).

Yes, I think digital art is more prominent here because MT is largely a walling community (with two large galleries devoted to it, and one devoted to vectoring), and it's kinda hard to make desktop wallpapers with traditional mediums (I mean it is possible, it just would be more challenging.

Yes digital mediums are in a lot of ways more convenient and easier to use (with all the undo and layers and special effects/filters and all). But that doesn't mean traditional art is dead. I actually like using traditional mediums 'cause using my hands gives me more control than using a mouse...

Just look through the doujinshi gallery and you'll come across some neat "conventional art". Or try looking through these people's galleries: Julian1, Windyroller, Dothaithanh (some traditional), KOKUJINDESU, Ladykagura, Studio, Staokmuoryao, Angelgirlz, Ayamael, AsyangTagaBundok, Timothysan, Zefie, Toujin1, just to name a few.

But many people here on MT like shiny things, so what can I say...

Try looking through deviantART, you'll find LOADS of amazing traditional works there.

fireflywishes

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fireflywishes

Calgon, take me away~!

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I would agree with MapleRose, but I also see where you're coming from shinshinovi. As with everything else, things evolve as technology evolves. (Due to email, does anyone write handwritten letters anymore?) It kind of saddens me when I go to check the new submissions and there are NO traditionally drawn artworks on the front page.

I can't really say too much on digital mediums because I don't use them. I enjoy drawing by hand because at the end of the day I have a tangible work of art rather than a file saved on my computer.

All of my submissions here are all hand-drawn pieces and I can empathize with what Elven-Inccubus said about lack of comments. Comparing the two (traditional vs. CG) it seems like the latter is much more popular among the regular members. This leads some artists who used to work with the traditional arts to become discouraged and they lose motivation because they feel that their works are underappreciated. I've felt that way myself so I always try to make it a point to comment on the hand-drawn arts (If I can think of something to say). I think the best thing that we can do to keep traditionally-drawn artwork around is to support one another. There is a project here at MT that I and some other members have been working on to support doujinshi artists: The 'Tips for Doujinshi Artists' Thread Rewriting Project

To add to MapleRose's list I would also recommend adding chisaikame, Danielly, and kyohimura to your watchlist. All three of them (in addition to the others) are very talented doujinshi artists who work with traditional mediums.

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shinshinovi

shinshinovi

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Erri: "I told you to take tranquilizers."
Joseph: "P***, tumahimik ka nga!" (Shut the **** **!)

Maybe I SHOULD have taken tranquilizers. XD /joke

Joking aside, after reading your comments, I realized that I missed my 8-hour dose of tranquilizers /joke, I mean, I found 3 mistakes about this thread:

A. I should edit that 'Sadly, no' part.
B. I found out that I have not yet checked every nook and cranny MT has.
C. I found out I'm not nuts. :P

Reading your comments (at last, after waiting 2 days! :P), I decided to 'investigate'. I logged out, went to another computer shop (I. Only. Rent. Since. My. PC. Sucks.) and navigated without logging on. Afterwards, I realized something, and I believe that I should share it with you.

Pepperoni and Cheese. /joke

[Enough jokes, time to get serious.]
[Oh, wait, I need to pee.]

...
...
...

[Back.]

When I was young, I was cute. Now I am 20 years old, I look like Chewbaca. /joke
Wait, no more jokes, yeah, I'm getting lame here. XD

When I was young, I told myself I want to become a cop. Until I realized that 85% of cops here in the Philippines sucks big-time, so I stalled. Until I saw Anime.
Here in Mandaluyong City, TV is 'shared'. Meaning, those who do not have TV watches on their neighbor's window. That, I do. Actually, before that, I also see posters of anime characters like Voltes V or Dragon Ball Z. Dragon Ball sparked it.

"I wanna draw".

Draw what? Well, I started by mimicking Shaider by wearing 7 briefs while I was a kid, but it did not worked. Finally, after countless years of watching and reading comics, I realized one thing:

"Anime is kewl."

It started when I was at Kindergarten 2. Drew Goku. Head small as a pea. Body as big as a bulldozer. Whatta dimwit. But, hey, I was a kid, so it look good. Until it did not. Then I saw Cardcaptor Sakura, Magic Knight Rayearth, etc. Drew `em. Failed. So on so forth until I became like this, the guy who draws for himself.

I became good after years of 'training' (if you'll call that training). I learned to draw by watching. Goading guys who know how to draw. Observing, etc. All done, conventionally. At that point of time, my knowledge also increased, I learned how to speak English, learned things, this, and that, vis a vi.

I learned them all, the conventional way, until my eyes learned about the internet.

And the internet showed me many things, gave me eye candy. All with effects so stunning, it literally painted itself in my mind. And I tried to draw them. But with no avail. I can't explain why at that point of time, so I always asked myself:

"Why can't I draw it, damn it!"

Until technology introduced itself to me. Adobe Photoshop, to be exact.
And for a time, it was good.

Enough of being nostalgically trying-hard-to-be-poetic-like. My point and sentiments are exactly the same: |"I miss the way manual artists do it."

But my investigation on what your comments has stated satisfied me. As it seems, my seclusion on the outside world might have initiated me from posting this thread. You see, there are points of time that makes me miss such beauty, such magic on what the hand can do, on what these so-called 'conventional arts' can do.

Your posts managed to encourage me to go on. Thank you.
(this does not mean that I hate Adobe Photshop.)

-PS: I tried to find an edit button regarding the poll question, so, I now state Poll Answer no. 2 as 'Of course, dimwit! Look around!'
It was a mix-up, unintended, due to one main reason: Multi-tasking. Damn work. ;__;

Sparda's missing Teacher. No MSG added. pH 9.5.

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WTH "'conventional artwork' refers to an image drawn, painted, or created the conventional way" are you crazy man the art is not the method the form or the technique the art is the concept whatever technique whatever form whatever method

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Well, I think the computer is just an other way to create art, but drawing and painting are still popular. It\'s normal to see here more computer works, because we are on a forum. But i\'m a drawer, and all the people I know work traditionally. I try to learn how to use photoshop, but it\'s just a new tool, like aquarelle or oil painting. We have to choose what tool is most appropriate, but the art is more than just the technique. It\'s a concept.

  • Mar 05, 2007

etoo

etoo

sanity runs away from me

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nope, not dead and will never be. i love drawing with a pencil and coloring with pens or crayons and that's not gonna be changed by a program, no matter how good it is. i know i'm not the only one thinking like that.
if i want to cg something, i have to have a sketch, right? and how do i get that? by spending a few hours drawing... yeah, i take long... and no, they aren't great, but that's off topic :D.
conventional has it's own charm, it's just something that attracts you to it, can't say exactly what. dunno, i'm happy when i finish cg-ing something, but i'm happier when i finish a drawing.

off topic (again): my ava and sig are made from my own drawing (just one of the many ^^). i only changed the contrast, light and colored her skin in psp. other than that, pencil, colored pencils and ball point pen.

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Of course it's dead. That's why I'm doing a watercolor painting later tonight. Duh!

well, due to the evilness of using a clunky unresponsive mouse, I actually draw traditionally most of the time. I just don't submit most of it because technically we're not supposed to use cameras to submit... *oops*

Besides, even with a tablet, it still doesn't feel right because of all the radiation.

THERE ARE SECRETS WHERE FAIRIES DON'T LIVE.
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shinshinovi

shinshinovi

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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and for that, I thank you. :)
Anyways, I'm quite happy that even though responses are few, the fact that Mini Tokyo is an international forum, I'm quite happy that I'm not alone in my belief. :)

Sparda's missing Teacher. No MSG added. pH 9.5.

etoo

etoo

sanity runs away from me

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dunno if i'm allowed to post this and sorry for not finding the you tube link but this is one thing you'll never be able to do with the computer:
the amazing art of julian beever

MapleRose

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@etoo: I've seen those before (my friend sent the pics to me once), they sure are awesome aren't they :D

That reminds me of a video I once saw. Here, it's called One Week of Art Works http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtzdxseO-gs and it is mind-boggling O_o

shinshinovi

shinshinovi

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Julian Beever rocks, and I know that. :P

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I've sen Julian Beever in a magazine once. I was like... HOLY S***! And I got confused. And my head exploded trying to understand exactly how he could do that without exploding himself.

THERE ARE SECRETS WHERE FAIRIES DON'T LIVE.
Saltici Comics : Salty: the Misunderstood Spider (updates every Monday)

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I can't vote 'cuz my option isn't even in there! Of course conventional/traditional art isn't dead, are you crazy? > - First off, this is a WALLPAPER website..of course its going to be a little hard to find conventional wallpapers, but hey if your looking for one I've got one thats half conventional half photoshop in my own gallery, I drew the main picture and just made the background on photoshop. Second off, if you go to any other actual art website that isn't MT (i.e. sheezyart, deviantart) there is traditional artwork plastered everywhere. Sure there is a ton of digital artwork, but there will ALWAYS be artists who prefer traditional over digital mediums, digital stuff isn't gonna kill us out that easily :3

shinshinovi

shinshinovi

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I am crazy. /joke :P
IMO, Mini-Tokyo is not just a WALLPAPER website.
It's a multi-purpose art forum. That's my perspective about Mini-Tokyo. ^_^

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soujiokita

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I don't think so. I don't usually use Photoshop to make artwork, I prefer to hand draw because it's more comfortable.
There are also many manga-ka who don't use a computer for their art, but there are also many who do. For example, most older manga-ka use traditional materials and all Jump manga-ka I know of don't use the computer for their artwork.

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ShinLanceVulcano

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Yeah, "conventional art" isn't dead, even though I like computer art, I need to accept that there are some things that computer cannot do....

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ang3llove

ang3llove

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I dont think its completely dead yet.. but with such fast rates of computah improvements I hafta agree it'll go down the drain someday~ sadly enough.. X_X

ChinoMareno

ChinoMareno

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who doesn't draw on paper? most painters just sketch on paper, scan, then paint. Computers are only tools and programs like photoshop and painter have helped a resurgence of classically trained artists gain a steady work flow.

Its not like the computer does it for you, but breaking out you oil paints takes time and effort, they take weeks to dry once complete and can't be worked on while totally wet. Then you have to get you hands in turps everytime you finish for the day.

When an artist can use digital oil paints and sit there for as long as he/she wants, work with a more forgiving medium, not worry about storage and achieve better results, plus be ready for print it doesn't make sense for pro's to mail you canvases.

That said, most of the pro's at Massive Black still keep their traditional skills sharp.

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  • Apr 03, 2007

mentis

mentis

..art is no luxury..

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You forgot the "No, They are NOT dead" option in your poll, so I'm afraid I can't vote ^_^.

So you clearly know my answer already. If you check my gallery, you'll notice that many of my pieces are not digital, other than they were photographed. I paint anime/mange, though I also like walling on occasion.

I also work at an art gallery, and at an art museum. So I can assure you that "conventional" art will under no ciscumstances die out. Just go to your local downtown area and you'll see just how many galleries there are. And, are they all closing down? Nope. In my town, more have opened last year, and more are opening this year.

I mean no offense, but in a way I feel your question is somewhat misinformed. Though that is not to say I don't understand why you may have gotten such an impression. You are after all in a largely digital art focused community here ^_^.

P.S.: If you search these forums you may come across this thread... Creative Painting Guide

MapleRose

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MapleRose

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Quote by ChinoMarenoIts not like the computer does it for you, but breaking out you oil paints takes time and effort, they take weeks to dry once complete and can't be worked on while totally wet. Then you have to get you hands in turps everytime you finish for the day.

When an artist can use digital oil paints and sit there for as long as he/she wants, work with a more forgiving medium, not worry about storage and achieve better results, plus be ready for print it doesn't make sense for pro's to mail you canvases.

Actually if you use water-mixable oils ( <3 ), you don't even need turpentine or special chemicals :)

I like working with real oils than digital oils tbh, 'cause as fun as ArtRage and Painter are, they're still only simulations of how the medium behaves, and you can't always predict the medium as well as if you work with it for real. Yes real oils are messy and stinky, but I'd rather end up with a permenant copy to hang on my wall than a (huge) file stored on my computer that may disappear if my computer decides to crash on my. I could print it out, but that means I'd had to work in huge resolutions to start with (which increase file size and increases chances of crashing), and it's expensive to print digital stuff, esp if you want it done on canvas.

And sure filters and PS brushes are fun, but where's the skill in that? XD

mentis

mentis

..art is no luxury..

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You make some good points MapleRose. I would like to add that restricting yourself to oil paints is also not necessary. I have been painting for a long time, and I actually don't use oils. I prefer acrylic paints, and after years of using them I believe that I can achieve the same results with acrylics as with oils. So old arguments as to the superiority of oils over acrylics are merely expressions of preference, and at worst admissions of a lack of skill. Although that's a whole 'nother conversation :P.

The point is, that traditional mediums are more accessible that people realize. Acrylics do not require harsh chemicals, watercolors are even more benign, and there are many other media to choose from: ink, tempera, sumi, and solid-to-wet media like pastels and watercolor pencils. Basically, if you want to do it the traditional way, there is a medium out there that will fit your needs.

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