What's the point in converting...?

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As the title states, is there really any point in converting people to either from:
Religion to religion
Religion to atheism
Atheism to religion
And practically anything along those lines.

We hold our own belief, why should some annoy you for it?

If people want to debate on a religious or on an atheistic topic, so be it, but don't try to convert them, it's so weird that people do that. Argue for what you believe in, don't try to force others to be on your side, it just causes a stereotypical view on your side and apparently it just gets worse.

I'm expecting something weird, or nothing at all... O.o

Edit: Read this edit you dummies. xP

I mean converting as in people try to convert you to there side or vice versa. I don't mean someone converting on their own...

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  • Jul 23, 2007

kuroimisa

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kuroimisa

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I guess it's the fact that everyone wants to believe that what they believe in is correct, and by having people also believing what they believe in makes it more "true". Well, it's kind of not :P Being right and having a comforting feeling of being right is two different things XD

It's simply human nature- we all like to believe that we know the facts and what we're doing and believing in is right.

... and it's because of this we argue that we're right- and horrible things happen. Like fights - verbal, physical... even mental :P

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Quote by DarkRoseofHellIf people want to debate on a religious or on an atheistic topic, so be it, but don't try to convert them, it's so weird that people do that. Argue for what you believe in, don't try to force others to be on your side, it just causes a stereotypical view on your side and apparently it just gets worse.

What you just said is a bit confusing for me. You want to know why people convert? (Or based on my understanding of your explanation, the reasons they convert?) People convert coz the believe that they can find their spiritual or their understanding of the world in another religion. It's ones personal belief, and no one can object to it, even if we find it incorrect.

As for the bolded parts of your thread, I agree with them. I've actually encountered with them and it really pissed me off. It's very annoying, really. And to be honest I find neither side correct, so I let them be and blow off each other's brain. It's as if you keep up running on a spinning wheel!

  • Jul 23, 2007

samu02

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Beat's the hell outta me. Live and let live, they say. Probably because other people believe they have the right to show you how faulty your belief is... They don't know how to mind their own business

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  • Jul 23, 2007

kingray100

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Ryu,the half demon

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Im not sure what the main point of this question is but in a christian's point of view, converting is to tell people a way of salvation and to save people from the evils of the world.There's much more to it then what i just said but there isnt enough room or patience for me to say all of it.

  • Jul 23, 2007
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Although I haven't nor do I plan to try to (de)convert people, if I were to it would be because I think religion is not only dangerous to humanity, like other things that cause people to act irrationally, and is also dangerous to progress. For example, if Christianity became even more widespread than it is today, there's a good chance it could revert back to the fundamentalism and we'd go back to what would basically be the Middle Ages where people were killed or threatened for advocating anything that contradicted Church doctrine, such as Galileo. Scientific progress would probably come to a standstill and people would no longer be able to freely express themselves.
Basically, I think Christianity is likely to create some sort of Christian dystopian society if it becomes too powerful. It's already happened in the past and there's still remnants of it now. Luckily it ended in Europe, but if it were to happen again it would probably be much worse and I doubt it would end as "easily" as during the Middle Ages.

  • Jul 23, 2007

priincess

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Quote by DarkRoseofHell..but don't try to convert them, it's so weird that people do that. Argue for what you believe in, don't try to force others to be on your side, it just causes a stereotypical view on your side and apparently it just gets worse.

I'm expecting something weird, or nothing at all... O.o

Edit: Read this edit you dummies. xP

I mean converting as in people try to convert you to there side or vice versa. I don't mean someone converting on their own...

we convert u to change ur stupid mind n save ur life before it's too late, hey fool rageth

Proverbs 14:16
''A wise man feareth, and departeth from evil: but the fool rageth, and is confident. ''

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At the end of mass the priest says to go out and spread the good news...
Personally, I don't like the idea of forcing people to be converted.
I don't mind sharing my views, but whether or not the person chooses to believe me is their business. Forcing people to believe goes against Free Will.

What I believe in is my business, what others believe is theirs. As long as we have enough sense not to go out and kill people or something.

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priincess, I don't see how it's stupid (also you just insulted a vast majority of the world) to believe in something while you believe in something else. If you're an extremist, go away. The quote thing, a wise man fears and a fool is confident? Anyone can be confident, anyone fears, it's human nature. You are confident about your religion, does that make you a fool? A fool can fear, a wise man can be confident...

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  • Jul 30, 2007
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Personally I can see why conversions may be a good thing. After all there are always going to be the extremists and the ignorant. In various studies it has been correlated that the more formal education a person has (college degree and etc.) the less religious they tend to be. Still a little over half (51%) of the electorate in the US believe that evolution is a lie and God made everything. The majority of these people also don't fully understand basic scientific concepts such as cell theory or even the scientific method. (From Gallop polls)

These are the same people voting on things like stem cell research, abortion, marriage rights, and who the next president will be. How can they make informed decisions without even knowing what a cell is? The only way they can get information is via emotional appeals by lobbyists and propaganda. They don't really understand the science so they stick with who "sounds" right. They go with whoever looks like they can be trusted regardless of the arguments they make.

Of course this is just a generalization but for the most part is true. I don't mean to get off track here but look at all the crap Bush had done before his second term and yet the guy still got reelected. Was it because he a good leader? As experience has shown obviously not. But still he won. How does one explain that?

So yeah I think conversion might make the world a better place to live in or at the very least an easier place to live in.

But I'm not going to make you change your mind. I'll try to not say you're wrong and I'm right. All I'm gonna do is present the evidence and the arguments I have and see what happens. If reason and logic can't get through to you then it would be a wasted effort to try on my part.

Of course in turn I welcome you to present your evidence and arguments to change my mind. If I happen to pick them apart and highlight the fallacies behind them then find other arguments.

  • Jul 31, 2007

kingray100

kingray100

Ryu,the half demon

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Quote by DarthTofuAt the end of mass the priest says to go out and spread the good news...
Personally, I don't like the idea of forcing people to be converted.
I don't mind sharing my views, but whether or not the person chooses to believe me is their business. Forcing people to believe goes against Free Will.

What I believe in is my business, what others believe is theirs. As long as we have enough sense not to go out and kill people or something.

when you say forcing,thats a little over the line.They suggest and try to persuade,not force people,unless they pull you outa bed and handcuff you to the church benches and force you to listen.

merged: 07-31-2007 ~ 11:07pm

Quote by PleaseRecyclePersonally I can see why conversions may be a good thing. After all there are always going to be the extremists and the ignorant. In various studies it has been correlated that the more formal education a person has (college degree and etc.) the less religious they tend to be. Still a little over half (51%) of the electorate in the US believe that evolution is a lie and God made everything. The majority of these people also don't fully understand basic scientific concepts such as cell theory or even the scientific method. (From Gallop polls)

These are the same people voting on things like stem cell research, abortion, marriage rights, and who the next president will be. How can they make informed decisions without even knowing what a cell is? The only way they can get information is via emotional appeals by lobbyists and propaganda. They don't really understand the science so they stick with who "sounds" right. They go with whoever looks like they can be trusted regardless of the arguments they make.

Of course this is just a generalization but for the most part is true. I don't mean to get off track here but look at all the crap Bush had done before his second term and yet the guy still got reelected. Was it because he a good leader? As experience has shown obviously not. But still he won. How does one explain that?

So yeah I think conversion might make the world a better place to live in or at the very least an easier place to live in.

But I'm not going to make you change your mind. I'll try to not say you're wrong and I'm right. All I'm gonna do is present the evidence and the arguments I have and see what happens. If reason and logic can't get through to you then it would be a wasted effort to try on my part.

Of course in turn I welcome you to present your evidence and arguments to change my mind. If I happen to pick them apart and highlight the fallacies behind them then find other arguments.

then again polls are never completely accurate.for an atheist group to do something with the polls isnt impossible.I mean,whats to stop an atheist from pretending hes a christian and signing in at a poll?Also,im a christian and i know lots about the cell theory and scientific method.I know lots of christians who do research and still believe in God.Making christians seem uneducated is nothing short of a fool.

  • Jul 31, 2007

priincess

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Quote by DarkRoseofHellpriincess, I don't see how it's stupid (also you just insulted a vast majority of the world) to believe in something while you believe in something else. If you're an extremist, go away. The quote thing, a wise man fears and a fool is confident? Anyone can be confident, anyone fears, it's human nature. You are confident about your religion, does that make you a fool? A fool can fear, a wise man can be confident...

a wise man feareth, not fears.. 'and is confident' those words mean that the fool rageth give rein to their desires n it makes them feel confident.
im not an extremist, i was just mad at that time, bcoz sumthing.. sorry, darkrose >.<'

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Obviously wise people question the church, so they made sure that people who follow the church could not take the wise seriously.

  • Jul 31, 2007

kingray100

kingray100

Ryu,the half demon

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Quote by marfish14Obviously wise people question the church, so they made sure that people who follow the church could not take the wise seriously.

the wise people are the ones who dont ask unanswerable questions because they should be wise enough to know that they will not get an answer since the bible even says that.

  • Jul 31, 2007
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Wise people are the ones who question things and dont follow something just because they are told its true. These could be the word of anyone, you dont really know, yet you still follow it with the conviction that it is the word of god. Wise men are knowledgable, most of the wise men of today are scientists who often do not follow the bible because it does not make logical sense. If you kept asking why we mist do certain things in the bible, it would eventually break down. Why is something a sin? do you know? Because god said right?

  • Jul 31, 2007

ASH-Hikari

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People shouldn't force their own beliefs on someone else, that's for sure. However displaying your beliefs and spreading the knowledge you have is good. People want to convert other people because when you believe you're doing the right thing, you want others to also do the right thing, right? That's why people try do convert people; when the end comes, you should want the people you know and love to have lived their life right, right? At least that's what I think. And also, if someone doesn't want to believe in what you believe, then leave them be. You already did your part. You told them, they heard you, they made a decision, and now it's on him. God guides whom He wills.
P.S. I'm not Christian, so this isn't the Christian point of view, it's just my own.

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kingray100

kingray100

Ryu,the half demon

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Quote by marfish14Wise people are the ones who question things and dont follow something just because they are told its true. These could be the word of anyone, you dont really know, yet you still follow it with the conviction that it is the word of god. Wise men are knowledgable, most of the wise men of today are scientists who often do not follow the bible because it does not make logical sense. If you kept asking why we mist do certain things in the bible, it would eventually break down. Why is something a sin? do you know? Because god said right?

For the most part,sin is a morally wrong thing that has a negative effect on things.Let me restate this again.The bible says that theyre are things that humans will never know.Now that you understand this,why do you continue to ask such things?you cant really think your going to get an answer,do you?btw,the knowledge of religion is probably a big part of a wise man's life unless he isnt wise.

  • Jul 31, 2007
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Why is it moraly wrong? What is a moral? What is wrong? The reason your not getting an answer to any of these questions is because these words are man made and dont really mean anything. they having meaning to humans but they do not truly describe anything.

  • Jul 31, 2007
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Everyone, get back on topic... and kingray that's what the "bible" says... how can we know what's a sin when we already question what is moral and inmoral...

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  • Jul 31, 2007
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Quote by kingray100then again polls are never completely accurate.for an atheist group to do something with the polls isnt impossible.I mean,whats to stop an atheist from pretending hes a christian and signing in at a poll?Also,im a christian and i know lots about the cell theory and scientific method.I know lots of christians who do research and still believe in God.Making christians seem uneducated is nothing short of a fool.

Too true, polls are not completely accurate. But to say that atheists go out and mess with the results is a little far-fetched. It

  • Aug 01, 2007

priincess

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this title should be changed by ''wut's the point in questioning?"
Mark 4:11-12=''11He told them, "The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables'' ''12so that,
" 'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving,
and ever hearing but never understanding;
otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'[a]"
Proverbs 13:13=''He who scorns instruction will pay for it,
but he who respects a command is rewarded.''
Proverbs 14:23='' All hard work brings a profit,
but mere talk leads only to poverty.''
Proverbs 26:4=''Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
or you will be like him yourself.''
Matthew 10:33=''But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.''

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kingray100

kingray100

Ryu,the half demon

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Quote by marfish14Why is it moraly wrong? What is a moral? What is wrong? The reason your not getting an answer to any of these questions is because these words are man made and dont really mean anything. they having meaning to humans but they do not truly describe anything.

Now your being stupid(no offense).Your questioning things that at first arent relevant to the discussion and also on top of that the questions asked is like saying "Where did the word "what" come from?"

merged: 08-02-2007 ~ 04:10am

Quote by DarkRoseofHellEveryone, get back on topic... and kingray that's what the "bible" says... how can we know what's a sin when we already question what is moral and inmoral...

actually i didnt get that off the bible.I got it from my personal opinion on what sin was.(some people agree with me on this)moral and inmoral is like asking whats bad and good.killing is bad,its a sin,helping other people with problems that need to be fixed is good,its not a sin.Morals can be a general topic or something where people like to question tiny holes in the concept.

merged: 08-02-2007 ~ 04:15am

Quote by PleaseRecycle

Quote by kingray100then again polls are never completely accurate.for an atheist group to do something with the polls isnt impossible.I mean,whats to stop an atheist from pretending hes a christian and signing in at a poll?Also,im a christian and i know lots about the cell theory and scientific method.I know lots of christians who do research and still believe in God.Making christians seem uneducated is nothing short of a fool.

Too true, polls are not completely accurate. But to say that atheists go out and mess with the results is a little far-fetched. Itâ?s not impossible but it's also not impossible that a teacup is orbiting Pluto right now.

Also I was making a generalization. I said that I was if you didnâ?t see earlier. I know that not all religious persons are ignorant and not all atheists are smart.

I just find it curious that the correlation is that the more educated you are the less religious you tend to be. I find it curious that out of 34 major industrialized countries the US ranks 33rd on acceptance of evolution (about 40%). [html] http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/313/5788/765[/html]
Stranger still 28% of Americans still believe humans and dinosaurs lived at the same time.

Iâ?m not saying that religion causes ignorance. I'm just noting the correlation.

I also want to note that 72% of the members of the National Academy of Science are atheists compared to the 7% who believe in a personal god. Supposedly according to Wikipedia "Election to membership [to NAS] is one of the highest honors that can be accorded to a scientist and recognizes scientists who have made distinguished and continuing achievements in original research. There are more than 170 members who have won a Nobel Prize."

I finally want to add that I never mentioned the word "Christians" in my last post. You kind of assumed I was talking about you when I was talking about the religious in general.

well first,the only religion in discussion as of now is Christianity.Second,most likely there arent many religious scientists since their religion is more important to them.Im guessing that if a person truly believes their religion is important,most likely they are going to either become a religious teacher or prefer to do something that doesnt try to disprove their religion.Understand?I see where you were coming at but it wasnt the complete story.

  • Aug 01, 2007
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"What" doesnt truly describe anything as well, so its just as "good" "bad" or"sin". If you could ask what is a "cat", we could trace this all the way untill we get to the big bang. If you tried to trace any words like good or bad, you would eventually either not know or revert to "because god said so" and no one knows why he did any of that stuff. Why did god make the universe? Why did he create man? No one could tell me any of this, not that I believe that a god did any of this as an atheist. The meanings of the words seem to be hollow if you cannot decribe what they are and why.

  • Aug 01, 2007

ProgramZERO

ProgramZERO

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Was there supposed to be a point? o_0

Quote by marfish14Why is it moraly wrong? What is a moral? What is wrong? The reason your not getting an answer to any of these questions is because these words are man made and dont really mean anything. they having meaning to humans but they do not truly describe anything.

Do you mean to say that morality is relative, not absolute? In other words, do you mean to say that what might be considered immoral in one culture or religion might be considered completely acceptable in another culture or religion?
If that is what you mean then I completely agree with you.

Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.

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