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What's the point in converting...?

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Quote: actually i didnt get that off the bible.I got it from my personal opinion on what sin was.(some people agree with me on this)moral and inmoral is like asking whats bad and good.killing is bad,its a sin,helping other people with problems that need to be fixed is good,its not a sin.Morals can be a general topic or something where people like to question tiny holes in the concept.


And killing someone who's killing others, is that a sin? It's still killing...

merged: 08-02-2007 ~ 08:14am
Get back on topic everyone...

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priincess

priincess

?doing fun

wut's good wut's bad, evrything r in the bible. read it, dont asking or complaining before u read.
killing people no matter wut the reason is a big sin!

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WOW
... i know what you mean.. i have a buddhist belief.. and background... its not really a religion yet it is... ( well more like a way of life.... )
ANYWAYS.....
these people keep bugging us and coming to our house and trying to convert us @___@ omfg.... my parents are nice and don't want to tell them off..... but that just makes them come even more.. my brother was about to snap at them lol..... i want to too =/... idea is.. i have nothing against religions hell i wanna learn about them since its interesting... learning about all religions and how they work... but don't force convert someone.... =/ let them stay to their beliefs thank you

Quote by kingray100Second,most likely there arent many religious scientists since their religion is more important to them.Im guessing that if a person truly believes their religion is important,most likely they are going to either become a religious teacher or prefer to do something that doesnt try to disprove their religion.

Science in general isn't out to disprove religion (not just Christianity but all of them). It just so happens that religions tend to be undermined by scientific findings. It's coincidence. When Galileo said that the earth revolved around the sun against what the Church said he probably wasn't trying to disprove God. It just so happened that his evidence undermined the authority of the church and so he was excommunicated for it (and tortured as I recall until he recanted).

What I was trying to say is that those who are religious especially those who are fundamentalist or biblical literalists tend to not know as much science as those that aren't. The US has a lot of them. These are the same kinds of people who vote on things like stem cell research and other scientific matters. Maybe that is a bad example but you get my basic idea right?

Conversion to a less strict form of religion would not be a bad idea in their case. Similarly it may or may not be a bad idea to convert all the way. We could argue all day about the potential benefits and costs but let's not because the same things that have already been said countless times before will be said anyway.

Quote by priincesswut's good wut's bad, evrything r in the bible. read it, dont asking or complaining before u read.
killing people no matter wut the reason is a big sin!

Well I've read it before (King James) and though I'm no authority on the bible it contains some rather odd stuff. Let me summarize a post I made in your other thread.

Exodus 31:14-15

Kill anyone who works on the Sabbath.

Here's one that is a little more relevant to this discussion.

Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill anyone (by stoning) who tries to convert you to other religions. This includes family members and friends.

So priincess... I have worked on Sunday before. Would you like to know more about Odin and Thor? Or perhaps you want to know more about Ra and Osiris? Let me tell you something about the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

I have done both things that the Bible says I should be killed for. If everything is indeed in the Bible about what is good and bad then "thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die."

You going to stone me or what?

Quote by kingray100well first,the only religion in discussion as of now is Christianity.Second,most likely there arent many religious scientists since their religion is more important to them.Im guessing that if a person truly believes their religion is important,most likely they are going to either become a religious teacher or prefer to do something that doesnt try to disprove their religion.Understand?I see where you were coming at but it wasnt the complete story.


There are many religious scientists, but since religions tend to attract people who aren't as likely to think scientifically and objectively, the best and most intelligent scientists are often nonreligious.

kingray100

kingray100

Ryu,the half demon

Quote by marfish14"What" doesnt truly describe anything as well, so its just as "good" "bad" or"sin". If you could ask what is a "cat", we could trace this all the way untill we get to the big bang. If you tried to trace any words like good or bad, you would eventually either not know or revert to "because god said so" and no one knows why he did any of that stuff. Why did god make the universe? Why did he create man? No one could tell me any of this, not that I believe that a god did any of this as an atheist. The meanings of the words seem to be hollow if you cannot decribe what they are and why.

Let me guess,since you cant see what God is thinking of,you doubt his existence and his Words.Do you really think your being just in the way you judge things?

merged: 08-04-2007 ~ 08:40am

Quote by Nephilim07WOW
... i know what you mean.. i have a buddhist belief.. and background... its not really a religion yet it is... ( well more like a way of life.... )
ANYWAYS.....
these people keep bugging us and coming to our house and trying to convert us @___@ omfg.... my parents are nice and don't want to tell them off..... but that just makes them come even more.. my brother was about to snap at them lol..... i want to too =/... idea is.. i have nothing against religions hell i wanna learn about them since its interesting... learning about all religions and how they work... but don't force convert someone.... =/ let them stay to their beliefs thank you

well you should tell them how you feel in a calm manor,and they will understand.If you want to learn,then i hope you learn well.

merged: 08-04-2007 ~ 08:43am

Quote by PleaseRecycle

Quote by kingray100Seco(...) likely there arent many religious scientists since their religion is more important to them.Im guessing that if a person truly believes their religion is important,most likely they are going to either become a religious teacher or prefer to do something that doesnt try to disprove their religion.

Science in general isn't out to disprove religion (not just Christianity but all of them). It just so happens that religions tend to be undermined by scientific findings. It's coincidence. When Galileo said that the earth revolved around the sun against what the Church said he probably wasn't trying to disprove God. It just so happened that his evidence undermined the authority of the church and so he was excommunicated for it (and tortured as I recall until he recanted).

What I was trying to say is that those who are religious especially those who are fundamentalist or biblical literalists tend to not know as much science as those that aren't. The US has a lot of them. These are the same kinds of people who vote on things like stem cell research and other scientific matters. Maybe that is a bad example but you get my basic idea right?

Conversion to a less strict form of religion would not be a bad idea in their case. Similarly it may or may not be a bad idea to convert all the way. We could argue all day about the potential benefits and costs but let's not because the same things that have already been said countless times before will be said anyway.

Quote by priincesswut's good wut's bad, evrything r in the bible. read it, dont asking or complaining before u read.
killing people no matter wut the reason is a big sin!

Well I've read it before (King James) and though I'm no authority on the bible it contains some rather odd stuff. Let me summarize a post I made in your other thread.

Exodus 31:14-15

Kill anyone who works on the Sabbath.

Here's one that is a little more relevant to this discussion.

Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill anyone (by stoning) who tries to convert you to other religions. This includes family members and friends.

So priincess... I have worked on Sunday before. Would you like to know more about Odin and Thor? Or perhaps you want to know more about Ra and Osiris? Let me tell you something about the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

I have done both things that the Bible says I should be killed for. If everything is indeed in the Bible about what is good and bad then "thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die."

You going to stone me or what?

I could have sworn mishmash pointed this out already.In those verses you mentioned,God is telling the cost of discipleship to his disciples,not us.He just wanted his disciples to be very loyal.

priincess

priincess

?doing fun

He told about His promises between Moses at that time, not now, Recycle.

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Quote: Let me guess,since you cant see what God is thinking of,you doubt his existence and his Words.Do you really think your being just in the way you judge things?


No one can see what anyone is thinking... no one can know what anyone's thinking. Also, since you keep saying we will never understand god's will, we don't even understand each others will. We judge things to make sense of it and to deem it good, bad or some other weird thing (and sometimes those judgements are stupid I have to say but they're their own judgement and do not go on saying that marfish14's judgement is stupid, as I see it, it's rather logical).

Quote: He told about His promises between Moses at that time, not now, Recycle.


Why not now... I mean... now is a nice time, now would be a great time, now would give some proof... it would at least show something...

Quote: WOW
... i know what you mean.. i have a buddhist belief.. and background... its not really a religion yet it is... ( well more like a way of life.... )
ANYWAYS.....
these people keep bugging us and coming to our house and trying to convert us @___@ omfg.... my parents are nice and don't want to tell them off..... but that just makes them come even more.. my brother was about to snap at them lol..... i want to too =/... idea is.. i have nothing against religions hell i wanna learn about them since its interesting... learning about all religions and how they work... but don't force convert someone.... =/ let them stay to their beliefs thank you


Thank you for being on topic. *claps*

Quote: I could have sworn mishmash pointed this out already.In those verses you mentioned,God is telling the cost of discipleship to his disciples,not us.He just wanted his disciples to be very loyal.


So...? You said about his words being true and stuff... or does it really take a threat to make someone believe in something? Does it take a threat like "If you don't believe in god you'll go to hell" just for people to believe in something? I see to it as, if it takes a threat, then there's no point in believeing it. Saying we're going to go to hell doesn't exactly make us feel comfortable in converting to a religion...

Quote: Here's a good quote from Annie Dillard that has some relevance:
"Eskimo: 'If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?'
Priest: 'No, not if you did not know.'
Eskimo: 'Then why did you tell me?'"


This is always fun.

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kingray100

kingray100

Ryu,the half demon

Quote by DarkRoseofHell

Quote: Let me guess,since you cant see what God is thinking of,you doubt his existence and his Words.Do you really think your being just in the way you judge things?


No one can see what anyone is thinking... no one can know what anyone's thinking. Also, since you keep saying we will never understand god's will, we don't even understand each others will. We judge things to make sense of it and to deem it good, bad or some other weird thing (and sometimes those judgements are stupid I have to say but they're their own judgement and do not go on saying that marfish14's judgement is stupid, as I see it, it's rather logical).

Quote: He told about His promises between Moses at that time, not now, Recycle.


Why not now... I mean... now is a nice time, now would be a great time, now would give some proof... it would at least show something...

Quote: WOW
... i know what you mean.. i have a buddhist belief.. and background... its not really a religion yet it is... ( well more like a way of life.... )
ANYWAYS.....
these people keep bugging us and coming to our house and trying to convert us @___@ omfg.... my parents are nice and don't want to tell them off..... but that just makes them come even more.. my brother was about to snap at them lol..... i want to too =/... idea is.. i have nothing against religions hell i wanna learn about them since its interesting... learning about all religions and how they work... but don't force convert someone.... =/ let them stay to their beliefs thank you


Thank you for being on topic. *claps*

Quote: I could have sworn mishmash pointed this out already.In those verses you mentioned,God is telling the cost of discipleship to his disciples,not us.He just wanted his disciples to be very loyal.


So...? You said about his words being true and stuff... or does it really take a threat to make someone believe in something? Does it take a threat like "If you don't believe in god you'll go to hell" just for people to believe in something? I see to it as, if it takes a threat, then there's no point in believeing it. Saying we're going to go to hell doesn't exactly make us feel comfortable in converting to a religion...

Quote: Here's a good quote from Annie Dillard that has some relevance:
"Eskimo: 'If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?'
Priest: 'No, not if you did not know.'
Eskimo: 'Then why did you tell me?'"


This is always fun.

So are you trying to say that the idea of religion is bad?And if you want to know about now,then read the new testament(thats why its called the new testament)After mentioning Jesus and stuff,it tells people how to live like a christian as of NOW, and also mentions how things will be and not to mention the end of the world itself.Since you hate the bible,i suppose this information wouldnt really make you think,right?

Wha? The new testament hmm... new doesn't really slap new on if it's 1000 years old...

Religion isn't necessarily bad, look at Buddhism. It's a really good religion and probably the better few of all the ones I've seen. Confucionism in my history book (this history book is like only two years old) is stated as a belief, though some say it isn't, I find it is much like a belief. There are a lot of proverbs (good ones) and stuff.
One I like is, "Of three people, all of them can be my teacher. The one that always goes drinking and is bad I will learn from him not to be like him. Of the one that works hard and studies is one I will learn from and be like him." I learned it in Chinese so I don't know about my translation.

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priincess

priincess

?doing fun

He gives proofs, by parables

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Yes, let's all give proof by stories... those aren't proofs...

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kingray100

kingray100

Ryu,the half demon

Quote by DarkRoseofHellYes, let's all give proof by stories... those aren't proofs...

its definitely possible to give proofs in parables.Teaching something sometimes require stories/parables,like for instance,the girl who cried wolf.

JetKrazy

JetKrazy

Planetarian

Quote by kuroimisaIt's simply human nature- we all like to believe that we know the facts and what we're doing and believing in is right.

That pretty much explains the "point"

It seems like something for power, noone likes to be wrong, so everyone tries to be "right"

Quote: its definitely possible to give proofs in parables.Teaching something sometimes require stories/parables,like for instance,the girl who cried wolf.


Um... it's the boy who cried wolf, and that's a story... did it actually happen? Don't think so... To get an idea across is okay, but to use it as a proof isn't.

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priincess

priincess

?doing fun

He wont tell proofs for non-believers, i think-base on a verse.
bcoz they dont want to believe Him, why He must explain ? bcoz a fool will still fool, unless u want to change ur mind

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kingray100

kingray100

Ryu,the half demon

Quote by DarkRoseofHell

Quote: its definitely possible to give proofs in parables.Teaching something sometimes require stories/parables,like for instance,the girl who cried wolf.


Um... it's the boy who cried wolf, and that's a story... did it actually happen? Don't think so... To get an idea across is okay, but to use it as a proof isn't.

boy,girl,does it matter?and using parables like these arent really meant for people who dont like the idea of God,its more of the verses work to do that.And nobody will ever know if that wolf story happened,so dont assume its not true,because it might just be.

BobaFett2ha

BobaFett2ha

Mandalore

There is only one kind of proof, and it is mathematical. There is no other Truth in the universe.

As for the thread topic, I really resent people trying to convert me; however, I do realize that the reason they do it is because they believe they are doing something "good".

What perplexes me more is why people convert from one religion to another: they are all equally senseless in my mind (before anyone brings up Buddhism, let it be known that I hold spirituality to be just as bad as religion).

"The ugly and thin cattle ate up the seven sleek and fat cattle." - Genesis 41:4

Ganjamus

Ganjamus

Insanity's Asylum

Every religion was created to keep the people away from the absolute Truth. The most popular book in the world, also knows as "The Bible", is nothing but a tool used by the Reptilians to brainwash humanity. Don't believe? The only thing stopping you from accepting the truth, is your own ego. You have been lied to about reality your entire life, any truthful revelations contradicting your false worldview may indeed seem farfetched. Do not let your mind get trapped within the religious or scientific paradigms. The Truth is out there.

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kingray100

kingray100

Ryu,the half demon

Quote by GanjamusEvery religion was created to keep the people away from the absolute Truth. The most popular book in the world, also knows as "The Bible", is nothing but a tool used by the Reptilians to brainwash humanity. Don't believe? The only thing stopping you from accepting the truth, is your own ego. You have been lied to about reality your entire life, any truthful revelations contradicting your false worldview may indeed seem farfetched. Do not let your mind get trapped within the religious or scientific paradigms. The Truth is out there.

what you need to do is stop watching those horror movies first ok?Why would humanity want to drift away from truth on purpose?looks like we want to drift closer to this truth instead.The fact that you believe such nonsense with no proof on your behalf is amazing.Obviously,you probably dont know much about religion,let alone reality.The reason this age old conflict still continues is from how historically correct the bible is and how it affects the people involved in the religion.Notice how Christians dont seem to be starting the trouble with anything,they wish to be kind,and to help as many people as possible.What force could have driven them to do such "good" things?There's proof on Christianity's behalf and its a matter if you accept it,or question the answers found.
btw,i looked at that little site you posted and its ridiculous. I might as well make up a race of humanoid wolves and make them the ancestors of humans.That site is one big laugh.

Ganjamus

Ganjamus

Insanity's Asylum

Stop being ignorant, rawr.

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Quote by priincessHe told about His promises between Moses at that time, not now, Recycle.

Then what about the Ten Commandment? They are also similar in a way to the verses I mentioned. They were told to Moses at the time. They were about things you should and should not do to get in good with God. Does that mean they are equally not applicable to the present because they were told to Moses then and not now? If you can say that one verse is not applicable now why not another. Why can't Genesis be not applicable to now? Or Exodus. Or in fact why can't we just call the whole Old Testament "not applicable." Since the New Testament is pretty old too why don't we just say that that is "not applicable." It's a slippery slope, applicability.

Quote: its definitely possible to give proofs in parables.Teaching something sometimes require stories/parables,like for instance,the girl who cried wolf.

No you can't. If you use a parable you first have to assume that the idea you're trying to convey with that story is true. Anyone can use parables but if the idea they teach is false then it proves nothing. I can spin tales all day long about how slavery is good, how the sun revolves around the earth, and how God is actually a Tree but it will do nothing to prove what I'm saying is true.

Quote: Notice how Christians dont seem to be starting the trouble with anything,they wish to be kind,and to help as many people as possible.What force could have driven them to do such "good" things?

Gee what could make them do good things? Well how about the threat of Hell and the reward of Heaven. Be good or go to Hell. Be good and you will get to go to Heaven. Both sound like good motivators to me. And those are just the most obvious ones.

Christians wish to be kind true...Until you want to get an abortion or get a same sex marriage. Then quite a few want to kill you. Ever notice how most if not all attacks on abortion clinics are religiously based?

The main reasons why christians say they do good is because of the threat of going to hell and the reward of going to heaven...

As stated:

Quote: Christians wish to be kind true...Until you want to get an abortion or get a same sex marriage. Then they want to kill you. Ever notice how most if not all attacks on abortion clinics are religiously based?


I have seen this on a T-Shirt at a considerably "Christian Convention" (saw it on a video, got it from alexjohnc3)
"www.thirdgender666.com Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Morals are worse than animals. Proof: The National Zoo"
There's the fact that we are animals, and there's the fact that the shirt saying that is a Christian that is wearing it... It's so stupid how there are these things and people consider themselves good...
Also, that Proof thing is umm... stupid...

Anyways... can people please go back on topic...

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priincess

priincess

?doing fun

He always says in parables. we cant work on Sunday, it's not the true meaning, there r messages behind the verse.
n we, the christians not doing good things juzt bcoz we want to go to Heaven.. that's a stupid mind.

weut's the poin in converting? well, we've said the answers to u but u dont want to understand!

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