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What's the point in converting...?

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What don't I want to understand? This is what you posted:

Quote: we convert u to change ur stupid mind n save ur life before it's too late, hey fool rageth

Proverbs 14:16
''A wise man feareth, and departeth from evil: but the fool rageth, and is confident. ''


As far as I see, you're just ignorant seeing people are just stupid for not believing in what you believe. That isn't a reason to go by and that isn't an answer to anything.

Quote: He always says in parables. we cant work on Sunday, it's not the true meaning, there r messages behind the verse.
n we, the christians not doing good things juzt bcoz we want to go to Heaven.. that's a stupid mind.


Also in this, you're just slapping on another point on how arrogant you are. The vast majority of anyone doing anything good is for self gratification, barely anyone does good just because it is good.

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priincess

priincess

?doing fun

uhmmm, i thinka man who wont any advices r obstinate, in other meaning, dull

merged: 08-12-2007 ~ 02:33am
n i think im not arrogant.
err, im NOT
well, maybe u're rite -_-'

Signature Image

I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to type, but I can assume "a man who won't take any advices are obstinate, in other words, dull"

Umm... do you know what obstinate means? I can listen to an advice, doesn't mean I'll follow it... it is called an advice for a reason...

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kingray100

kingray100

Ryu,the half demon

Quote by PleaseRecycle

Quote by priincessHe told about His promises between Moses at that time, not now, Recycle.

Then what about the Ten Commandment? They are also similar in a way to the verses I mentioned. They were told to Moses at the time. They were about things you should and should not do to get in good with God. Does that mean they are equally not applicable to the present because they were told to Moses then and not now? If you can say that one verse is not applicable now why not another. Why can't Genesis be not applicable to now? Or Exodus. Or in fact why can't we just call the whole Old Testament "not applicable." Since the New Testament is pretty old too why don't we just say that that is "not applicable." It's a slippery slope, applicability.

Quote: its definitely possible to give proofs in parables.Teaching something sometimes require stories/parables,like for instance,the girl who cried wolf.

No you can't. If you use a parable you first have to assume that the idea you're trying to convey with that story is true. Anyone can use parables but if the idea they teach is false then it proves nothing. I can spin tales all day long about how slavery is good, how the sun revolves around the earth, and how God is actually a Tree but it will do nothing to prove what I'm saying is true.

Quote: Notice how Christians dont seem to be starting the trouble with anything,they wish to be kind,and to help as many people as possible.What force could have driven them to do such "good" things?

Gee what could make them do good things? Well how about the threat of Hell and the reward of Heaven. Be good or go to Hell. Be good and you will get to go to Heaven. Both sound like good motivators to me. And those are just the most obvious ones.

Christians wish to be kind true...Until you want to get an abortion or get a same sex marriage. Then quite a few want to kill you. Ever notice how most if not all attacks on abortion clinics are religiously based?

You need to study up on the bible because being good doesnt get you into heaven.All you have to do is believe in Him and trust him and thats basically all.The rest are guidelines who wants you to follow and that can be optional,but to please god and give yourself less obstacles in life,you would need to follow some of his word.So I wont go to hell if i say a bad word or beat up someone,its just that God will find a way to punish me,small or big.And the same sex issue is unknown to me.Personally,I dont think its really the way life is suppose to be,when being a homosexual,but I guess it cant be helped.God says it isnt right,then I will find out why he says so when I die.

You know, my english teacher put this simple like this, "All you need to do according to the bible to get into heaven is to believe in god, so for all you know, I can rape and kill all these people and before I die, I just pray to god"

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kingray100

kingray100

Ryu,the half demon

Quote by DarkRoseofHellYou know, my english teacher put this simple like this, "All you need to do according to the bible to get into heaven is to believe in god, so for all you know, I can rape and kill all these people and before I die, I just pray to god"

But if you plan on doing bad things purposefully, then your not engaging seriously with God and just trying to save your butt from hell and not really believing him.

That's not me, but that's what my english teacher said, though he was being sarcastic and all.

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kingray100

kingray100

Ryu,the half demon

Quote by DarkRoseofHellThat's not me, but that's what my english teacher said, though he was being sarcastic and all.

Do you go to a public school or private?I thought that teachers werent allowed to make such comments.

Hm? We were talking about the book "Night" and we somehow winded up into some religious stuff that was referring to the author and then people (both atheist and theist) start bringing up points and then my teacher commented that.

merged: 08-13-2007 ~ 02:35am
Oh yeah, and if you want to know how he came to that conclusion.

"Since Adam and Eve were the ones to cast the first sin, they were exiled from the Garden of Eden. So at nature, we're all sinful creatures but when Jesus came down, he cleansed us of our sin so we are no longer sinful creatures. So then I can rape and kill all these people and just before I die, I just pray to god."

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kingray100

kingray100

Ryu,the half demon

Quote by DarkRoseofHellHm? We were talking about the book "Night" and we somehow winded up into some religious stuff that was referring to the author and then people (both atheist and theist) start bringing up points and then my teacher commented that.

merged: 08-13-2007 ~ 02:35am
Oh yeah, and if you want to know how he came to that conclusion.

"Since Adam and Eve were the ones to cast the first sin, they were exiled from the Garden of Eden. So at nature, we're all sinful creatures but when Jesus came down, he cleansed us of our sin so we are no longer sinful creatures. So then I can rape and kill all these people and just before I die, I just pray to god."

well the part about we are not sinful creatures is just wrong.It doesnt matter if we are christian,or an atheist,nobody is without sin and to say that we are is foolish.Humans are not perfect.

I already know that, and my teacher knows that, that's why he also added the statement as "Sin based on christianity is something that deters from god's will" but to me, since jesus cleansed us of our sins, is there actually sins?

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Quote by kingray100You need to study up on the bible because being good doesnt get you into heaven.All you have to do is believe in Him and trust him and thats basically all.The rest are guidelines who wants you to follow and that can be optional,but to please god and give yourself less obstacles in life,you would need to follow some of his word.So I wont go to hell if i say a bad word or beat up someone,its just that God will find a way to punish me,small or big.And the same sex issue is unknown to me.Personally,I dont think its really the way life is suppose to be,when being a homosexual,but I guess it cant be helped.God says it isnt right,then I will find out why he says so when I die.

So hypothetically let us say that because I believe utterly in God's word to the letter I decided to kill a bunch of people who worked on Sunday and killed anyone who tried to convert me to another God. Let's pretend for now that I wholeheartedly believe that I am doing God's will. I believe and trust in God. Even though the commandments say I should not kill other parts of the bible say I should. There's no way to know for sure but then again I believe that this is what God wants.

Do I go to Heaven or do I go to Hell when I die?

According to you I ought to go to Heaven. After all I truly believed that I was doing the right thing. I believed that these were the guidelines set out by the Bible. There are 2 outcomes to that that I can think of right now.

1. God really did want me to kill all those people so he is cruel and rather malicious.

2. God didn't want me to kill them but sends me to Heaven anyway because I "thought" it was the right thing to do. That removes any sense of responsibility or justice. I can do anything no matter how terrible so long as I truly believe in that the Bible tells me to do so. That includes burning cities to the ground because of their beliefs.

Again I reiterate my argument. God tells Moses to kill heathens. God tells Moses the ten commandments. Both are equally applicable to the present day. You can't say one is not and one is since they both come to us in practically the same way. They may or may not be "guidelines" but so long as I believe in God and do not commit the only "unforgivable sin" of blasphemy against the Holy Ghost (according to Mark) then I'm set. If both of those particular verses are merely "guidelines" and aren't applicable to this day and age how do you know that Genesis isn't a "guideline." How would you know any verse is just a "guideline." Theoretically I can just believe and trust in God but believe that the whole Bible is a load of hogwash.

If you say I go to Hell then how do you know? How do you know what God wants? Shouldn't I be in God's favor even more than you because I follow every single letter and command as listed in the Bible. Sure I killed but Moses says God wants me to do it.

That's all for now.

kingray100

kingray100

Ryu,the half demon

Quote by DarkRoseofHellI already know that, and my teacher knows that, that's why he also added the statement as "Sin based on christianity is something that deters from god's will" but to me, since jesus cleansed us of our sins, is there actually sins?

When people say he cleansed our sins,it means he destroyed the barrier that stops us from going to heaven and the holy spirit cleansing our soul and convincing us to do only good.We will never be free of sin,no matter who you are.Only Jesus was sinless.We are human,not divine.If it wasnt for humanity,than everyone who is saved,would be acting very Godly,just about perfect in a moral sense.

merged: 08-13-2007 ~ 10:39am

Quote by PleaseRecycle

Quote by kingray100You need to study up on the bible because being good doesnt get you into heaven.All you have to do is believe in Him and trust him and thats basically all.The rest are guidelines who wants you to follow and that can be optional,but to please god and give yourself less obstacles in life,you would need to follow some of his word.So I wont go to hell if i say a bad word or beat up someone,its just that God will find a way to punish me,small or big.And the same sex issue is unknown to me.Personally,I dont think its really the way life is suppose to be,when being a homosexual,but I guess it cant be helped.God says it isnt right,then I will find out why he says so when I die.

So hypothetically let us say that because I believe utterly in God's word to the letter I decided to kill a bunch of people who worked on Sunday and killed anyone who tried to convert me to another God. Let's pretend for now that I wholeheartedly believe that I am doing God's will. I believe and trust in God. Even though the commandments say I should not kill other parts of the bible say I should. There's no way to know for sure but then again I believe that this is what God wants.

Do I go to Heaven or do I go to Hell when I die?

According to you I ought to go to Heaven. After all I truly believed that I was doing the right thing. I believed that these were the guidelines set out by the Bible. There are 2 outcomes to that that I can think of right now.

1. God really did want me to kill all those people so he is cruel and rather malicious.

2. God didn't want me to kill them but sends me to Heaven anyway because I "thought" it was the right thing to do. That removes any sense of responsibility or justice. I can do anything no matter how terrible so long as I truly believe in that the Bible tells me to do so. That includes burning cities to the ground because of their beliefs.

Again I reiterate my argument. God tells Moses to kill heathens. God tells Moses the ten commandments. Both are equally applicable to the present day. You can't say one is not and one is since they both come to us in practically the same way. They may or may not be "guidelines" but so long as I believe in God and do not commit the only "unforgivable sin" of blasphemy against the Holy Ghost (according to Mark) then I'm set. If both of those particular verses are merely "guidelines" and aren't applicable to this day and age how do you know that Genesis isn't a "guideline." How would you know any verse is just a "guideline." Theoretically I can just believe and trust in God but believe that the whole Bible is a load of hogwash.

If you say I go to Hell then how do you know? How do you know what God wants? Shouldn't I be in God's favor even more than you because I follow every single letter and command as listed in the Bible. Sure I killed but Moses says God wants me to do it.

That's all for now.

haha...ok.let me get this straight.The bible says "thou shall not kill".but the bible doesnt have any verse that say kill people in any sense.Just because the bible has stories of death and murders in it,doesnt mean the message is to kill people who dont believe in God,especially if you saw the verse of not killing other people.Bible tells us not to kill.and christians are not perfect,and if God told someone to kill someone,then its part of his mysterious will and plans that we do not know of.Who know,those heathens might have summoned the devil to revolt or something,but God might have stopped that.If you were a christian,You need to believe his word because its HIS WORD!When you believe in God,you believe in his word.Moses does not say you need to kill or that you should.Same with God.If thats what you got,then you have the mind of a very dangerous person.What do you mean what does God want?he wants you to be saved because he loves you and everyone else.And guidelines are things that christians should follow to please God.Even if you are saved in the future,when you die,you really want to go to heaven feeling like you dont deserve to go there since you never really followed his word?thats what the phrase fear God comes from.its not fear like you think,but its fear of disappointing God in a sense.

Quote: When people say he cleansed our sins,it means he destroyed the barrier that stops us from going to heaven and the holy spirit cleansing our soul and convincing us to do only good.We will never be free of sin,no matter who you are.Only Jesus was sinless.We are human,not divine.If it wasnt for humanity,than everyone who is saved,would be acting very Godly,just about perfect in a moral sense.


I don't know, but I feel like it's pointless posting on these threads now... Everyone who is saved would be acting very godly? What? I mean come on, all you are is being sent to heaven with people playing harps and everything is supposed to be peaceful and serene... aside from the fact that I'd go insane from that, it gives no sense on what why jesus was here for then. If he wasn't here to cleanse of us our sin, then what was his point? (Do not say destroy the barrier because sin is something we can't see therefore we don't even know if sin existed).

And for the thou shalt not kill thing umm... have you seen all those quotes within your messages for christians and stuff? I can copy and paste them if you want me to. One of them was stoning someone to death if they worked on the day of sabbath. Also there's this one that alex posted...

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law--a man's enemies will be the members of his own household. Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it."
-Matthew 10:34-39 (NIV)

As I do believe a sword isn't something that is made for the better good... right?

Anyways, if god made us and stuff, why bother making such a universe so vast in which there may be other species? I mean come on, for all we know, there might be aliens with these types of debates going on and for all we know, they may have this totally different story and all that stuff...

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kingray100

kingray100

Ryu,the half demon

Quote by DarkRoseofHell

Quote: When people say he cleansed our sins,it means he destroyed the barrier that stops us from going to heaven and the holy spirit cleansing our soul and convincing us to do only good.We will never be free of sin,no matter who you are.Only Jesus was sinless.We are human,not divine.If it wasnt for humanity,than everyone who is saved,would be acting very Godly,just about perfect in a moral sense.


I don't know, but I feel like it's pointless posting on these threads now... Everyone who is saved would be acting very godly? What? I mean come on, all you are is being sent to heaven with people playing harps and everything is supposed to be peaceful and serene... aside from the fact that I'd go insane from that, it gives no sense on what why jesus was here for then. If he wasn't here to cleanse of us our sin, then what was his point? (Do not say destroy the barrier because sin is something we can't see therefore we don't even know if sin existed).

And for the thou shalt not kill thing umm... have you seen all those quotes within your messages for christians and stuff? I can copy and paste them if you want me to. One of them was stoning someone to death if they worked on the day of sabbath. Also there's this one that alex posted...

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law--a man's enemies will be the members of his own household. Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it."
-Matthew 10:34-39 (NIV)

As I do believe a sword isn't something that is made for the better good... right?

Anyways, if god made us and stuff, why bother making such a universe so vast in which there may be other species? I mean come on, for all we know, there might be aliens with these types of debates going on and for all we know, they may have this totally different story and all that stuff...

Ok look,first you assuming there are people in heaven playing harps all the time,but we dont know if thats true.Secondly,you have a choice darkrose,you can either go to the peace and serenity and safety of our Lord or you can go to hell and suffer eternal torture.Heaven might not be the place you,being peaceful and kind,but would you rather go to hell?And that phrase thats been used over and over again by the bible is just to his disciples telling them the importance of discipleship.You have to read the whole thing first to understand.Also,even if it did target us,it just means that we should love our creator more than anything,of course its still optional as a Christian.These alien things are the strange things in life.Nobody knows if they truly exist or if its something divine(these lights that people are seeing could be something religious related,just a thought),but even if there were aliens,Im sure when god says the human species,he means us,not them.

So, seriously, would you turn against your father? Would you turn against your family members? Would you turn against those that has been with you since you were born? And what do you mean it's optional? Christians follow the bible, right so what do you mean by optional...

I was making a stereotypical statement on heaven, plus, if a place is serene and safe all the time, as a human, we would go insane because partially we would be bored, and there's no longer any balance to our minds.

Another thing I point out,

Quote: Secondly,you have a choice darkrose,you can either go to the peace and serenity and safety of our Lord or you can go to hell and suffer eternal torture.Heaven might not be the place you,being peaceful and kind,but would you rather go to hell?


Seriously, this is what annoys me about people trying to convert, the threat of going to hell when we don't even know if such a thing exists...

Quote: These alien things are the strange things in life.Nobody knows if they truly exist or if its something divine(these lights that people are seeing could be something religious related,just a thought),but even if there were aliens,Im sure when god says the human species,he means us,not them.


Who knows, it might've been towards aliens, not us...

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kingray100

kingray100

Ryu,the half demon

Quote by DarkRoseofHellSo, seriously, would you turn against your father? Would you turn against your family members? Would you turn against those that has been with you since you were born? And what do you mean it's optional? Christians follow the bible, right so what do you mean by optional...

I was making a stereotypical statement on heaven, plus, if a place is serene and safe all the time, as a human, we would go insane because partially we would be bored, and there's no longer any balance to our minds.

Another thing I point out,

Quote: Secondly,you have a choice darkrose,you can either go to the peace and serenity and safety of our Lord or you can go to hell and suffer eternal torture.Heaven might not be the place you,being peaceful and kind,but would you rather go to hell?


Seriously, this is what annoys me about people trying to convert, the threat of going to hell when we don't even know if such a thing exists...

Quote: These alien things are the strange things in life.Nobody knows if they truly exist or if its something divine(these lights that people are seeing could be something religious related,just a thought),but even if there were aliens,Im sure when god says the human species,he means us,not them.


Who knows, it might've been towards aliens, not us...

When it says turn against your father,its saying that if you father opposed God,then you would have to turn your back on what your father is saying.same with everything else,darkrose.There is more reason to believe that a hell exists then that it doesnt.It better to assume the worst case scenario in some cases,is it not?and the bible clearly mentions earth and nations and is historically correct for earth's sake,not Jupiter's.Its us God's talking about,not anything else.

This is exactly why hell was made. Hell is made to scare people into joining the church, and keeping citizens in line. Heaven was of course made for almost the same reason, but to make their church feel like it is just and make people feel secure. It is instinct to fear death, so we made up heaven to calm that fear.

Quote: When it says turn against your father,its saying that if you father opposed God,then you would have to turn your back on what your father is saying.same with everything else,darkrose.There is more reason to believe that a hell exists then that it doesnt.It better to assume the worst case scenario in some cases,is it not?and the bible clearly mentions earth and nations and is historically correct for earth's sake,not Jupiter's.Its us God's talking about,not anything else.


So lets say god asked you to kill your father and mother to show loyalty to him. Would you? If god asks you to kill your loved ones, would you? Hey, who knows, there might be another planet across the universe which name is earth and has all that stuff...

Everyone fears death, everyone would like to know that when they die they have something to look to. The sad truth is, we have no proof, no evidence, nothing about that. People seek immortality.

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kingray100

kingray100

Ryu,the half demon

Quote by DarkRoseofHell

Quote: When it says turn against your father,its saying that if you father opposed God,then you would have to turn your back on what your father is saying.same with everything else,darkrose.There is more reason to believe that a hell exists then that it doesnt.It better to assume the worst case scenario in some cases,is it not?and the bible clearly mentions earth and nations and is historically correct for earth's sake,not Jupiter's.Its us God's talking about,not anything else.


So lets say god asked you to kill your father and mother to show loyalty to him. Would you? If god asks you to kill your loved ones, would you? Hey, who knows, there might be another planet across the universe which name is earth and has all that stuff...

Everyone fears death, everyone would like to know that when they die they have something to look to. The sad truth is, we have no proof, no evidence, nothing about that. People seek immortality.

First,God would never tell you to kill your parents just to show loyalty.If you believe in Him and trust him,hes happy.Oh,and i assume that this other earth has the same nations and geography as this earth,right?this is the only earth,and if you dont agree,then before you argue to defend your views of being an atheist,you should learn about the universe and get some common sense.Can you stop assuming that everyone fears death.I dont,and many other christians dont either.even suicide bombers dont fear death.And we also have the proof that nobody believes,and I will say it again.the bible.You dont believe in it because you are a doubtful person and just wont accept it.I dont care what you say about the bible not being reliable because in the end when you die,your going to regret those words anyway.Time to change your ways.

It's human nature to fear death, it is human nature to want to live, why do you think there are such things as instincts? Instincts is based on survival. If you don't fear death, then you're no longer what I consider a human, you then lack one side of your emotion.

Quote: I dont care what you say about the bible not being reliable because in the end when you die,your going to regret those words anyway.Time to change your ways.


Oh geez, again... this is the type of threat that I'm talking when people try to convert... arrogant, stupid, and has no backup support.

Heck, since you say you can't comprehend god, now you're saying that he won't do something. Make up your mind... if you don't know what god does and everyone doesn't know, then who knows, god might order you to kill your parents. You never know.

Quote: Oh,and i assume that this other earth has the same nations and geography as this earth,right?this is the only earth,and if you dont agree,then before you argue to defend your views of being an atheist,you should learn about the universe and get some common sense.


Oh yes, this person that has no common sense scored a 140+ on an IQ test (143 if I remember correctly). I'm just saying think of the possibilities, and for someone telling others to learn about the universe, you don't seem that knowledgeable about it.

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kingray100

kingray100

Ryu,the half demon

Quote by DarkRoseofHellIt's human nature to fear death, it is human nature to want to live, why do you think there are such things as instincts? Instincts is based on survival. If you don't fear death, then you're no longer what I consider a human, you then lack one side of your emotion.

Quote: I dont care what you say about the bible not being reliable because in the end when you die,your going to regret those words anyway.Time to change your ways.


Oh geez, again... this is the type of threat that I'm talking when people try to convert... arrogant, stupid, and has no backup support.

Heck, since you say you can't comprehend god, now you're saying that he won't do something. Make up your mind... if you don't know what god does and everyone doesn't know, then who knows, god might order you to kill your parents. You never know.

Quote: Oh,and i assume that this other earth has the same nations and geography as this earth,right?this is the only earth,and if you dont agree,then before you argue to defend your views of being an atheist,you should learn about the universe and get some common sense.


Oh yes, this person that has no common sense scored a 140+ on an IQ test (143 if I remember correctly). I'm just saying think of the possibilities, and for someone telling others to learn about the universe, you don't seem that knowledgeable about it.

Lets start from the basics...I like living,but I could care less if I die.What I said is truthful since I confirm what I said to be true.Now this proves your little theory of everyone being afraid of death wrong.Not everybody is the same.And you say that ,when you die and go to hell phrase,has no support,technically it does,but its just unseen until it happens to you.Its like saying a giant pool of lava is going to swallow the entire world in the future,but until it happens,nobody knows or cares about it.The unseen seems to be a problem for you,but its ok because the bible tells me about people like you who cant believe in things they do not see.And I cant trust you on giving your IQ considering the knowledge you try to spill out to the public of minitokyo.
To end things,You cant assume that Im not smart in the category of the universe because for all we know,the universe could be purely a religious concept in which I understand and you dont.

Quote: Lets start from the basics...I like living,but I could care less if I die.What I said is truthful since I confirm what I said to be true.Now this proves your little theory of everyone being afraid of death wrong.Not everybody is the same


Everyone should be afraid of death it's human nature to be afraid of death. Also, if someone literally took you hostage and threaten you, would you really say you will be willing to die? Though you won't know how you feel until you're actually in a situation like that.

merged: 08-14-2007 ~ 11:35pm

Quote: And you say that ,when you die and go to hell phrase,has no support,technically it does,but its just unseen until it happens to you.


And this is exactly why it has no support.

Quote: Its like saying a giant pool of lava is going to swallow the entire world in the future,but until it happens,nobody knows or cares about it.


Is it going to happen, we don't know, which is exactly the problem...

Quote: The unseen seems to be a problem for you,but its ok because the bible tells me about people like you who cant believe in things they do not see.


Yeah, so why do you bother telling the vast majority of atheists?

Quote: And I cant trust you on giving your IQ considering the knowledge you try to spill out to the public of minitokyo.


Well, you did just insult me and said I have no common sense, so that's why, can't you look at what you post?

Quote: To end things,You cant assume that Im not smart in the category of the universe because for all we know,the universe could be purely a religious concept in which I understand and you dont.


Oh yeah, and saying that observing space with a telescope is a religious concept. Saying people walking on the moon is a religious concept? Oh, saying satellites in which allows GPS and GSMA products is of religious concept...

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priincess

priincess

?doing fun

yeah, kingray's rite XD

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