Warning: Undefined array key "HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE" in /var/www/minitokyo/www/includes/common.inc.php on line 360 What's wrong with Evolution? - Minitokyo

What's wrong with Evolution?

Do you believe in Evolution?

Yes, Evolution is a fact.
77 votes
No, Evolution isn't false.
5 votes
Your head explodes.
4 votes
Lightning strikes OP.
2 votes
Rolls eyes and leaves thread.
11 votes
Doesn't like OP.
1 votes

Only members can vote.

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ProgramZERO

ProgramZERO

The Lost Generation

You know, I still don't understand why some people deny Evolution. I personally believe that Evolution is fact and has provided considerable sums of evidence to warrant it's feasibility. So why don't you, if you don't, believe in Evolution? Is there something you still don't understand? Please, don't fear to ask questions and I'll try my best to answer them. Keep in mind, I'm no scientist so there are things I don't understand yet.

Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.

JetKrazy

JetKrazy

Planetarian

It is human nature to fear those that are different, and with evolution comes difference within the same race. That's the only way I can think of why others deny evolution. They're simply scared

There's nothing wrong with evolution. In fact, it's supposed to help a race become better at surviving. If it isn't accepted, the race is going to die out really fast. And there is only one race in the entire world that can consciously accept or reject something.

EternalParadox

Retired Moderator

EternalParadox

.:Enigma Mod:.

People deny evolution because of they hold misconceptions about what the theory of evolution claims. Religious conservatives argue that evolution leaves out the existence of God as the Creator, when in fact evolutionary theory makes absolutely no claims about where life comes from, only how it changes over time.

Evolution and God are not mutually necessarily mutually exclusive.

EternalParadox
Previously the Forum, Vector Art, and Policy Moderator

Shinsengumi89

Shinsengumi89

The Watcher of Movies

Quote by EternalParadoxPeople deny evolution because of they hold misconceptions about what the theory of evolution claims. Religious conservatives argue that evolution leaves out the existence of God as the Creator, when in fact evolutionary theory makes absolutely no claims about where life comes from, only how it changes over time.

Evolution and God are not mutually necessarily mutually exclusive.

I agree they aren't mutually exclusive, and i don't see evolution in and of itself disproving the existence of god. My main guess would be that religious conservatives may feel that because it is not mentioned in the bible then therefor it is wrong or heinous.

ON THE SUBJECT ITSELF

I personally may not believe in God, and i do know that Evolution is a fact, though my issue is that it was skipped over in almost all of my science classes. So i had to go out and teach myself a bit. Others i have talked to believe that scientists haven't come to a conclusion on this, or that science is just another religion basically.

Shinsengumi89

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Haha, nice poll choices. =P

I think some people deny evolution because they fear that God is becoming more and more unnecessary to explain our existence. People from one thousand years ago didn't have nearly as great an understanding of the Universe as we do today. Today we have scientific ideas on how on our origins, the Earth's origins, our solar system's origins, the origins of stars, and almost everything else. These are entirely naturalistic because science is methodologically naturalistic and also makes use of Occam's Razor. If God didn't play a direct role in our origins as the Bible claims, even if the knowledge of how we came about can be reconciled with a religion, the religion will still be weakened. However, it will weaken even more if people resist progress, as is what happened with the Catholic Church, though they realized it before it was too late and kept a lot of their power.

Basically, some people are afraid of accepting evolution because as their god(s) become unnecessary for explaining the phenomena, fewer people will believe in them (at least very strongly) and it may eventually lead to the belief system's extinction since people will no longer able to hide behind things such as the teleological argument at all. Not that you really can right now either, but people do it anyways.

Boom!

Quote by EternalParadox People deny evolution because of they hold misconceptions about what the theory of evolution claims. Religious conservatives argue that evolution leaves out the existence of God as the Creator, when in fact evolutionary theory makes absolutely no claims about where life comes from, only how it changes over time.

Evolution and God are not mutually necessarily mutually exclusive.

Perhaps it attacks the idea that god made all things one way, the perfect way and perfectly. So, they aren't suppose to change. Immutabilty is probaly the basic ideia threated by the Evolution. This concept that things came to world the way they are (made by god) - so they can't change - has for many centurys assured the chains of submission and domination in society. For instance, if you are born of noble family, you are by god's will destined to nobility... the same goes for royalty, slavery and etc.

You know that either poll for the first two, it's saying that evolution is a fact. "Isn't false" and "Is fact" xP
I just put heads explode for the fun of it. XD

Anyways...
My thought is that the concept of god of such making us as we are instead of us evolving to what we are, and the fact that there's so many extinct animals that it violates what god did as in just create the world as it is right now.

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ProgramZERO

ProgramZERO

The Lost Generation

In many cases, I find that people don't bother to read up on the Theory of Evolution and instead simply dismiss it without knowing anything about it. In other words, ignorance plays a large role.

Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.

Some years ago I used to believe that it all was solved and that everyone would believe in evolution soon =P. I don't understand why some people get so annoyed by that. Personally I think the Bible has many symbols and messages, rather than scientific descriptions, which people from ancient cultures couldn't have understood. The Bible carries a message, not a science class. God did everything without telling us how exactly it happened, and it's up to us to 'solve the mistery'. Or why did God give us such amazing capacities and skills? Isn't our capacity to inquire (and find answers) a gift? Why shouldn't we use it? And what if creation took billions of years? That would mean nothing to God, as He's eternal. Those who care too much about the days mentioned in the Bible are being too subjective about time and don't care about the message in the Genesis.

ProgramZERO

ProgramZERO

The Lost Generation

Quote by Taikun00Some years ago I used to believe that it all was solved and that everyone would believe in evolution soon =P. I don't understand why some people get so annoyed by that. Personally I think the Bible has many symbols and messages, rather than scientific descriptions, which people from ancient cultures couldn't have understood. The Bible carries a message, not a science class. God did everything without telling us how exactly it happened, and it's up to us to 'solve the mistery'. Or why did God give us such amazing capacities and skills? Isn't our capacity to inquire (and find answers) a gift? Why shouldn't we use it? And what if creation took billions of years? That would mean nothing to God, as He's eternal. Those who care too much about the days mentioned in the Bible are being too subjective about time and don't care about the message in the Genesis.

Well, Genesis is quite explicit in it's account of how the Human Race started. It really can't be called symbolic IMO.

Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.

ProgramZERO

ProgramZERO

The Lost Generation

I agree! Nice Avatar btw.

Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.

well evolution is awesome but the problem with it is that unlike creation it doesn't make us feel special

Mnemeth

Mnemeth

Rider of the Currents

I agree with several people that the idea of evolution and creationism are not mutually exclusive. The seven days of creation thing is simply a story method whereby the creation of this universe was put into simpler terms so that it would actually be understood by the masses (after all I'd like to see you try to explain the concept of geological time to an uneducated individual).

Quote by ProgramZEROWell, Genesis is quite explicit in it's account of how the Human Race started. It really can't be called symbolic IMO.

I have to disagree there. The only thing it is explicit about is that God created everything. As to the how and amount of time he/she took to do it well thats where this whole debate comes from. The story is told the way it is due to the symbology in use at the time. I mean what would people of that time understand easier? God created the world in six days and rested on the seventh or God created the world of the span of X millennia and rested once he/she was done. (BTW the number seven had significance prior to the time of the Bible as well so its no surprise that that was the number chosen)

Quote by ramzyfirewell evolution is awesome but the problem with it is that unlike creation it doesn't make us feel special

I will again have to disagree as the act of evolving makes one "special" (which basically translates to "different" or specifically "more capable")

The fact that ultra-religious people accept the stories in their holy texts as truths verbatim (i.e. it happened exactly as written) is because they are really afraid to face other information which they don't agree with.

Do not interfere in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

priincess

priincess

?doing fun

do u mean that we're the evolution of monkey?
if it's true, why there r still monkeys here n why they dont change?
it's already thousand years rite?
u didnt see when God created humans, so u cant thinking like that, beside, monkeys r stupid, they would never smarter than us.

Signature Image

You really dont study anything to do with science do you? We evolved form the same ancesters as monkeys. It is likely that the species evolved in different areas. There is evidence where humans evolved, such as bones which trail all the way to today, we used to be small fury creatures that ate leaves. Explains why we have appendixes too, which is a completely usless organ to us now. Anyway, we wouldnt be intelligent if we hadnt started eating meat. When you cook meat, it creates a protein that is good for brain growth. We eventualy became more intelligent, far surpassing our monkey relatives. Evolution even happens in todays world as bacteria and virus's become immune to antibiotics to survive. Only the most efficient species survive, thats why its called "survival of the fittest". Even if scientist thought we came from monkeys, there would be evidence to back this up. The bible will never give you evidence but ask for your blind obedience. Sounds like a way to control people to me. If you heard this from the church, it would be because they cannot truly put up an argument so they lie about what the theory is to make it sound rediculous.

Quote by priincessdo u mean that we're the evolution of monkey?
if it's true, why there r still monkeys here n why they dont change?
it's already thousand years rite?
u didnt see when God created humans, so u cant thinking like that, beside, monkeys r stupid, they would never smarter than us.

Seriously, I see that you haven't ever studied the basics of Evolution. So, please, avoid replying before you read something about it. It's really annoying this kind of ignorance....

Well, the theory of evolution does have its share of holes and weaknesses, one of them being that the lack of the "in-between" (say, 1/2 evolved for example) species.

Also, "evolution" is kinda random, it's rather a "good" outcome of a genetic mutation, and that doesn't happen often (as in one in a few million, billion, trillion chance of it happening). If we are indeed evolved from a single cell organism, frankly we'd still need a LOT of time before we get to the stage we are now.

Also, physically speaking, it kinda goes against the 2nd law of Thermodynamics. The 2nd Law states that the entropy (un-orderness) of a closed system never decreases. If anything, we really should be de-evolving (our appendix coming to mind).

Quote by questforuit's rather a "good" outcome of a genetic mutation

Good isn't exactly the right word, rather, it's the "apropriate" outcome, considering it's the finest interaction between genotipe and fenotipe.

Quote by questforuIf we are indeed evolved from a single cell organism, frankly we'd still need a LOT of time before we get to the stage we are now.

Well, 2 billion years is a LOT of time, don't you think? Try counting.... Besides, there is no data on how long a mutation takes to occur - since it's radom - so though it usualy take thousands of years, it might happen in a few decades...

Quote by questforuAlso, physically speaking, it kinda goes against the 2nd law of Thermodynamics. The 2nd Law states that the entropy (un-orderness) of a closed system never decreases. If anything, we really should be de-evolving (our appendix coming to mind).

Hmm, I'm not that good in thermodynamics, so can you elaborate better this statement?

Lord-Satorious

Lord-Satorious

Knight of Avalon

questforu, the Earth is not a closed system. We are open to the rest of the universe. And if you don't believe that, we are at least open to the sun and moon. The sun provides heat and the moon affects tidal changes. There is no conflict with the second law of thermodynamics.

Lord_Satorious
The World-Wide Gundam Informational Network
"The Nu Gundam isn't just for show!" - Capt. Amuro Ray, UC 0093

priincess

priincess

?doing fun

as i see, the evolution of humans or animals cant change too much like that. monkeys become humans? woOw, ridiculous. n the lions eat meats evryday. would u say if there r not much protein in the meats, bcoz it's uncooked?
u can believe the theory bcoz that's just what's can make sense in ur mind, n the scientist too.
can u open ur mind widely? if the monkeys become us, who create monkeys?

Signature Image

You really didnt read what we wrought did you. we evolved from the same ancestors as monkeys, Cooking the meat creates a protein that helps with brain growth, and its true that science makes sense. If you actually want to discuss this matter and proove anything actually read our arguments. Watch this and learn something.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/educators/teachstuds/svideos.html

Quote by priincessas i see, the evolution of humans or animals cant change too much like that. monkeys become humans? woOw, ridiculous. n the lions eat meats evryday. would u say if there r not much protein in the meats, bcoz it's uncooked?
u can believe the theory bcoz that's just what's can make sense in ur mind, n the scientist too.
can u open ur mind widely? if the monkeys become us, who create monkeys?

I ask why are you wasting your time here if don't even know what we are talking about?
Please, don't ruin the thread with this kind of reply...

ProgramZERO

ProgramZERO

The Lost Generation

Quote by MnemethI agree with several people that the idea of evolution and creationism are not mutually exclusive. The seven days of creation thing is simply a story method whereby the creation of this universe was put into simpler terms so that it would actually be understood by the masses (after all I'd like to see you try to explain the concept of geological time to an uneducated individual).

I would think God would be able to make anyone understand anything since, hello, he's God! He created the Universe so I doubt he would have trouble making people understand time.

Quote by Mnemeth

Quote by ProgramZEROWell, Genesis is quite explicit in it's account of how the Human Race started. It really can't be called symbolic IMO.

I have to disagree there. The only thing it is explicit about is that God created everything.

It's also explicit about how there were originally two people called Adam and Eve who had two children called Cain and Abel. Where's the symbolism there? It sounds quite explicit.

Quote by Mnemeth As to the how and amount of time he/she took to do it well thats where this whole debate comes from. The story is told the way it is due to the symbology in use at the time. I mean what would people of that time understand easier? God created the world in six days and rested on the seventh or God created the world of the span of X millennia and rested once he/she was done.

Again, an omni-potent God would be able to explain to anyone any length of time. If He created the Universe, I doubt teaching someone something would be overwhelmingly difficult for Him.

Quote by priincessdo u mean that we're the evolution of monkey?
if it's true, why there r still monkeys here n why they dont change?
it's already thousand years rite?
u didnt see when God created humans, so u cant thinking like that, beside, monkeys r stupid, they would never smarter than us.

All I have to say is please purchase a biology book and read it thoroughly because you have completely misunderstood the process of Evolution.

Quote by questforuWell, the theory of evolution does have its share of holes and weaknesses, one of them being that the lack of the "in-between" (say, 1/2 evolved for example) species.

Please look up "divergent evolution".

Quote by questforuAlso, "evolution" is kinda random, it's rather a "good" outcome of a genetic mutation, and that doesn't happen often (as in one in a few million, billion, trillion chance of it happening). If we are indeed evolved from a single cell organism, frankly we'd still need a LOT of time before we get to the stage we are now.

It's called Natural Selection which phases out the "bad" mutations and promotes "good" mutations. BTW, the number you presented is overly exaggerated.

Quote by questforuAlso, physically speaking, it kinda goes against the 2nd law of Thermodynamics. The 2nd Law states that the entropy (un-orderness) of a closed system never decreases. If anything, we really should be de-evolving (our appendix coming to mind).

Actually, we ARE NOT a closed system therefore the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics doesn't apply to us.

Quote by priincessas i see, the evolution of humans or animals cant change too much like that. monkeys become humans? woOw, ridiculous. n the lions eat meats evryday. would u say if there r not much protein in the meats, bcoz it's uncooked?
u can believe the theory bcoz that's just what's can make sense in ur mind, n the scientist too.
can u open ur mind widely? if the monkeys become us, who create monkeys?

Again, please buy a biology book and read it. You'll learn a wealthy amount.

Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.

This is about the 2nd law of Thermodynamics. I know that the Earth isn't a closed system, but try considering the universe itself. Depending on what you believe as how the world start, but I'm guessing it's the Big Bang theory. According to that, the whole universe started as one infinitisimally small point before time begins, then BANG and the rest is history. This theory is supported by the currently observed redshifts.

So taking that into account, yes the Earth itself isn't a closed system, but the whole universe is, and Earth is part of it. So with that in mind, we are a closed system. Of course this is only a theory, but then so is the theory of evolution, so they more or less carries the same weight.

Also, I'm not just talking crap when I'm saying that we still need a lot more time to evolve to what we are now. I'm sure that you've know about "Darwin and the Eye". In the later section of his book "On the Origin of Species" how he wondered rhetorically how an organ delicate such as a human eye can be formed through natural evolution. This, of course, by no means was to disapprove his own work, but it's some food for thought.

I don't have anything personal against evolution, I just brought one of the competing theory up to argue against it. The theory of evolution is quite sophisticated, but now as it stands, it is still incomplete (if it is and have hard evidence it would be the Law of Evolution, not a theory). One can only hope things clear up as science is more advanced.


ps. this is fun, some responses on this thread is really intellectual. :D

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